The Nintendo World Smash Trailer

[Pye]

Deffinitly. Ganondorf may have been a clone, but he's a fantastic character idea. Like you said, with Twilight Princess comming out, maybe Dorf'll have some new tricks up his sleeve. Enough new tricks to return in Brawl, hopefully. It would be a terrible waste if they remove him outright.

But by the looks of that glimpse of Snake's moveset, things are looking grim for Dorf

 

[piZ]

Yeah, Samus is confirmed don't worry.

Source or it didn't happen.

 

[psyt]

Source or it didn't happen.

http://www.smashbros.com/en/characters/chara3/index.html

"And don't worry—you'll still be able to play as standard Samus, too."

 

[Xsyven]

Source or it didn't happen.

She was in the original Brawl trailer...

 

[burrito]

Ganondorf is defininitely returning. He is a major Nintendo character and one of the most memorable villains ever. They will, however, most likely give him a completely new moveset. I mean, he was supposed to have his own moveset in SSBM, but they were rushed and made him a clone.

 

[SnareRush]

I don't really think Falcon or Ganondorf will be axed.
As Ganondorf was a clone in Melee, I'm guessing they'll now put more time into him and create a mostly new moveset, hopefully with influences from Twilight Princess.
I think Falcon will retain the majority of his moves, plus if he was axed there would be no F-Zero representative, which would make me cry .
Snake is a brand new character so it seems unlikely he would be based on any previous charcters, plus he is said to use explosives and stuff, so his style would be different to both Falcon's and Ganondorf's anyway.

I think because the three characters are all relatively realistic looking men (atleast compared to the rest of the cast), people assume that they will be similar. Kinda makes sense in a way, but I think they will all play quite differently.

 

[MiraiGen]

She was in the original Brawl trailer...

It's contraversial because, in the original trailer, she came on stage in a cutscene and transformed to ZS Samus, and that was it.

I'm still surprised that they're going for "During certain conditions" with ZS Samus. It'd be like making Zelda transform into Shiek provided Gannondorf is the only opponent, or something.

 

[Firestorm88]

Source or it didn't happen.

Also, the press kit released at E3 for Brawl had some character models including Samus in her Varia Suit.

 

[Jenkins: Spy Monkey]

well.. if they were to axe one of the mains, which i doubt, i think falcon be the top of the list ;x

Actually, and it pains me to say this, I think that spot goes to Ness. I know Sakurai expressed interest in dropping Ness for a Mother 3 character, but Mother 3 wasn't out at the time of Melee. But now it is. That said, I don't think any of the original twelve are going anywhere.

 

[Falco&Victory]

Sorry if any of this was mentioned before, but it looks like there IS a destructible stage,EVERYONE is top tier now, and every stage is completely kick@SS! Im looking for a crew to help me on my time machine to winter 2007. Any takers? I need 4 ion plutonium crystals and one of Chuck Norris' tears.

 

[Geph]

I'm still surprised that they're going for "During certain conditions" with ZS Samus. It'd be like making Zelda transform into Shiek provided Gannondorf is the only opponent, or something.

What's this you're referring to?

 

[Ryuuseiken Marth]

I never said that they or the project was rushed. I stated quite the contrary. I just said that the formation of Sora was rushed which could lead to disorganization, and, to be honest, I don't know how long Melee's development time was. I also believe it was stated Spring or Summer, something like that. Don't hold me to that, though.

They did have a rough start, but they got used to it, and they certainly didn't have Metaknight and the 4 others right off the bat. I remember Melee's dev time being started in something like September, October or December, some time around the Dolphin project was announced, or the first images of the Gamecube were released to the public. Brawl isn't on the January-April 2007 list.

They may have been eager to create, but that doesn't really constitute to anything other than effort and enthusasium. Not to mention that whatever small amount of development time boosted by this eagerness was negated by the disorganization of the company at first. They started with, what, eight or so people? I can't remember exactly. I'm guessing that Ridley was a Frodian Slip.

I started with some elaborate story instead of an actual argument. When "The Studio" came, Brawl went back on track. Ridley wasn't a freudian slip, I was just guessing the other 2 that people most wanted.

At a glance, your suggested amount of characters already seems rather ridiculous, but if what you say about Melee's development time is true, then they could easily obtain that number. I still think the final bracket will be no more than 50 at best, though. In case you haven't noticed, Smash isn't just about the characters. Stages, modes, music and everything makes Smash. Those departments need just as much love.

There isn't any target number for them to acheive, they can exceed fifty, provided that they're able. I know that Smash isn't just about the characters; I want some new modes, like create a stage, a better stamina mode, and playing a stage at a different angle.

 

[Xsyven]

I forgot who the guy was that claimed this first, but I totally agree with him that they'll reveal 2 more characters at the next two Nintendo World events.

Why would the unveil Fox 3 times?

After (or if... actually, a BIG if) they reveal the next two characters, that'll leave us with 12 characters, no?

That's big enough to be the starting lineup.... even though Melee starts with 14.

 

[burrito]

I forgot who the guy was that claimed this first, but I totally agree with him that they'll reveal 2 more characters at the next two Nintendo World events.

Why would the unveil Fox 3 times?

After (or if... actually, a BIG if) they reveal the next two characters, that'll leave us with 12 characters, no?

That's big enough to be the starting lineup.... even though Melee starts with 14.

Yeah, I said that. I hope that's what they do. I can't wait until January for more info.

 

[everlasting yay]

It's contraversial because, in the original trailer, she came on stage in a cutscene and transformed to ZS Samus, and that was it.

I'm still surprised that they're going for "During certain conditions" with ZS Samus. It'd be like making Zelda transform into Shiek provided Gannondorf is the only opponent, or something.

She did have a super smash attack though...

 

[NDRU]

anyone else notice at the end when fox jumps onto a platform he does a up b but it is canceled when he lands. in ssbm it wouldnt be canceled

sorry if this has been said already, reading through 20+ pages of people posting rumours is a waste of time

 

[kmkzSP1K3R]

i'm kinda dissappointed with the stance they gave zamus...it seems rather...boring? as if she's not really ready or she doesnt look like a threat, which she IS(go zamus!!!) I wish they could have given her a more serious stance like this: i drew a quick little diddy to show.

The stance they gave her is sorta like the image i drew on the left, it's just like...kinda standing with her gun at hip level. but on the right, i drew a more serious stance since she IS holding a gun, she could at least look like she's about to use it, ya know? of course she's have a different stance with the whip out. am i the only one who feels this way...?

 

[NG7]

That is a freaking huge pic man. Next time you should probably post a link or something. Or at least draw her nakey

But yea i agree with you. I'd like to see Kirby with a fighting stance!

 

[GenG]

The stance is the same she had in Metroid Zero Mission, so I have no complains. Samus hasn't the same skill with a handgun.

 

[valoem]

I briefly skimmed through the pages and i dont think this was brought up, but it seems they got rid of star finish, which is good for team play.

 

[icymatt]

I honestly think the star KOs just haven't been implemented yet, or they wanted the trailer to go faster.

 

[kmkzSP1K3R]

That is a freaking huge pic man. Next time you should probably post a link or something. Or at least draw her nakey

But yea i agree with you. I'd like to see Kirby with a fighting stance!

sorry, i didnt know it'd be so big until after i posted it. and my comp has a problem with editing a post...it wont allow me to do it for some reason.

The stance is the same she had in Metroid Zero Mission, so I have no complains. Samus hasn't the same skill with a handgun.

is it really her zero mission stance? i guess i overlooked that fact...what did you mean by the very last statemenet?

 

[GenG]

I meant that Samus isn't as skillful with a handgun. She is accustomed to the cannon and autotargetting devices of her suit.

 

[FlipTroopa]

Okay, a few things I noticed...

-The Star Fox level is on the Great Fox as it appears in Star Fox Command (they had to get a new one because of the ending to Assault...). So it's still a stage on the Great Fox, simply a different one. It also looks like it enters Corneria's orbit at one point or another...

-The Yoshi's Island stage is ripped from Mario World 2, which rocks. There's a slime-ghost (forget their names) with a platform on its head over to the right, and it looks like the stage will change seasons midbattle, simply adding graphical effects and nothing else much.

-The Mario Kart stage doesn't follow the track like Mute City, but it looks like the platforms do move around.

-Kid Icarus stage looks HUGE, but the fighting area looks soooo small. Definitely a cool looking level regardless...

-Link's sword still glows when he slashes. Nice effect.

-We see a lot of Pit's A attacks, but still no specials. For shame. I need confirmation that his Smash B is the Mallet Oh, and it looks like Pit is going to be a lot like Marth (which is both cool and disappointing), and he's going to use the bow like a staff and as two blades equally. So, he's not a swordfighter *per se*, but more like a close-range blade/staff fighter? Definitely not something I picture Pit being, but eh... He's likely a fastfaller. Definitely looks it.

-Snake is exactly as I envisioned him. That RPG is his Forward B, not a Smash. There's a weird lag there that doesn't seem natural for a smash. It makes more sense for it to be a Forward B that he can angle, and the player was simply finishing the combo by blasting the special downwards. Regardless, he plays a lot like Ganondorf meets 64 Samus, and I like it. Seems like a slow, heavy, and powerful character. Works.

-Mario got a bit of Doc's power it seems. Awesome. And his Tornado's back to its 64 version. Funky.

-Kirby got some of his range and power back. Nice.

-Pikachu seemed to be a lot more powerful, but slower. Did anybody pick up on that?

-Link is virtually the same. Seems more fluid in his attacks, but that's it.

-Zamus is basically Sheik. Weird low-G jump. She was basically Samus without armor and a stun gun in Zero Mission, so I'm wondering if she's just as floaty as Samus is, and that was just her front flip... The weird gun changeroo is likely just a taunt or a standing animation.

-Fox has his gun out at all times, AND stands on one foot while waiting? Woah... Definitely looks a lot more kickass now, IMO. And I'm wondering how different he'll play simply based on the redesign. More pistol whipping? Stronger kicks? Slightly heavier? Slower? Hmm...

-Wario's jerkiness bugged me at first, but now it works. I really wanted Wario Land style Wario, but you know what... It makes sense, considering Wario Ware. I like it. I just wonder what his Specials will be like.

-Meta Knight can friggin GLIDE! :D That's so awesome. Definitely looks to be the most developed and versatile/useful character of the batch, easily.

-Standing Animations I noticed: Pit taps his sandals to get the dirt off; Zamus screws with her gun (?); Wario crosses his arms and/or scratches himself; Snake rubs his chin. While crouching, Meta Knight has a cool standing animation where he peers back and forth, akin to some of the official art he's in.

-Crawling seems like a new technique. Likely you press down and lightly in a direction to do it. Some characters, or all, can roll into the crawl as well, likely by holding down after a roll. Shields were not present, and MK and Pit had very very fast dodges. Likely they dodge like Mewtwo, and Shields have yet to be implemented, but weird looking nonetheless...


My one big question, to all of you: How the hell far along IS this game? They definitely did not leave much to tell us it was moving along, IMO. It looks only slightly further than when they left us in June. I'm... kinda disappointed. Not at the trailer, it rocked. But at their progress. I don't care all they had to show was Fox, or a few stages. But just the characters that we knew about already, and what they showed us, was so weak. At this same stage in development, they showed us ALL the starting characters in Melee, and each easily had 20-30 seconds to their name, where we got a decent look at some of their specials as well as their styles. All we really saw this time were a few A attacks and some movement. Kinda lame, honestly... I would've at least wanted to see one special per fighter.

Oh, and Pikachu STILL isn't far along in development, just like the last trailer. Wonder if Sakurai just stopped caring.

 

[piZ]

My one big question, to all of you: How the hell far along IS this game?

Seeing as the release date is 2007, probably Q2/3, it's not very far off.

 

[Mankosuki]

Snake is exactly as I envisioned him. That RPG is his Forward B, not a Smash. There's a weird lag there that doesn't seem natural for a smash. It makes more sense for it to be a Forward B that he can angle, and the player was simply finishing the combo by blasting the special downwards.

I disagree. D-smashes can be slow and/or only hit one side, just look at Mewtwo's. Look closely at the animation and you'll also notice the little ball of light they do before a smash attack comes out. Not to say he can't also shoot missiles to the side with a side-b, but I think that's definately his D-smash. lol, I've been dreaming about angleing Samus' missiles/blast ala Super Metroid style but that would be so broken as an edge gaurd!

 

[FlipTroopa]

I disagree. D-smashes can be slow and/or only hit one side, just look at Mewtwo's. Look closely at the animation and you'll also notice the little ball of light they do before a smash attack comes out. Not to say he can't also shoot missiles to the side with a side-b, but I think that's definately his D-smash. lol, I've been dreaming about angleing Samus' missiles/blast ala Super Metroid style but that would be so broken as an edge gaurd!

Oh, I know that Down Smashes can be to one side. Mewtwo's being on example, of course. But it just seems weird, that's all. I've also read analyses that swear Snake is seen launching rounds from the same gun across the entire stage. I've yet to pin it down myself, but a few people claim it, so it would make more sense, if it were true, that that's his Forward B, y'know? I don't see the sparkle (I'm at work now, and don't have access to the trailer) normally, but I'll check for it later.

It'd be a cool Down Smash, but... eh. I'd prefer it as a Smash B

 

[Bowserlick]

I thought it was a down smash at first. But the only thing I don't get is this. If it is a down Smash, could it be charged? Snake would just be pressing a button, charging wouldn't really work. I guess it could show him flexing his finger.

Or maybe since it is a laggy smash, it doesn't have to be charged. It comes out with its full strength.

 

[Overswarm]

-Link is virtually the same. Seems more fluid in his attacks, but that's it.

Look whene he does his u-smash. His sword range has doubled.

-Zamus is basically Sheik. Weird low-G jump. She was basically Samus without armor and a stun gun in Zero Mission, so I'm wondering if she's just as floaty as Samus is, and that was just her front flip... The weird gun changeroo is likely just a taunt or a standing animation.

Or possibly the ability to change her gun from a shooter to a whip? -_^

 

[FlipTroopa]

Look whene he does his u-smash. His sword range has doubled.



Or possibly the ability to change her gun from a shooter to a whip? -_^

I'm not too keen a Link player (I just started trying to learn him), so I didn't pick up on that difference, but interesting nonetheless. He needed it

And the thing with the gun/whip... It was implied in the E3 trailer that she could change the function, but Sakurai says in her profile that the whip is moreso the main weapon, implying that the gun may be like... a B attack, and the others all involve the whip in some manner. It's really elaborate, and almost unnecessary, to give a character some ability to switch their entire moveset based around a single weapon. It can be done, and it would be cool, and in a sense it HAS been done in Melee, but it still seems kinda awkward.

I stick by the whole "her A attacks are kicks/chops/whips, her specials and grabs use the whip in some way, and her regular B is a stunning laser shot." Or something. It seems like an elaborate animation, too... It could just be a taunt on that merit alone. If she were to switch between gun and whip modes midbattle, why stand around and play with the gun?


Oh, and I watched the trailer again... got it downloaded here at work. Snake DOES have a sparkle before the RPG, so it IS a down smash. Sexy. Couldn't find that part with the so-called grenades being fired (some are claiming its C4s instead, which is even cooler), but still looking.

I did notice, tho, that the only A attacks of Pit's we're missing are his Up Smash, Down Smash, Dtilt, Bair, Dair, and possibily the regular A He definitely has the most elaborate A moveset of any character so far... He snaps the bow back together and apart in basically one frame for each move that necessitates it, and keeps them together/apart until the next move he needs to switch up. What's really sweet, and this was in the E3 trailer, is that his Fsmash is a Two-step a la Link/Sheik, and that his rapid A is that crazy rapid cutter attack. 15 loooong years... but it's been so worth it

 

[GenG]

I think Pit pulled out his Dair, just take a look at 1:53. That downwards air slice on Pikachu seems a dair to me.

 

[FlipTroopa]

I think Pit pulled out his Dair, just take a look at 1:53. That downwards air slice on Pikachu seems a dair to me.

Hey, whaddya know. It's more around 1:48, but I'm going by the IGN copy. Very interesting... most of his aerials are spinning his bow around, it seems. So he may not be true combo heavy, but definitely combo damage heavy. Wouldn't wanna guard with Pit flying around...

Some other stuff (and this is referring to the IGN copy):

-1:50- Meta Knight glides midbattle. Can't tell if he using a forward B or it is coming out of a jump (it looks more to the latter, however). He rears back before he does it, though. Very interesting...

-1:51 or so- This is the area where Snake supposedly launches a grenade/C4. He definitely looks like he's starting to pull out something, but he gets knocked back by Pika before anything can happen. Hmm...

 

[Mankosuki]

They don't actually show any gernade/claymore mine attack. However, at 2:10 it cuts to a scene where Wario is already on fire and getting knocked away. They don't show what actually sets him on fire, but it's one of Snakes moves since the other two characters on screen (Zamus & Meta Knight) wouldn't have a fire base move.

Snake is directly under the platform Wario gets set a flame/knocked away, so I'm thinking he set a claymore mine (down-b?) then dropped through to the bottom. Then Wario was comming to attack him and landed on the mine.

About Z-Samus, I really hope you don't have to change between gun & whip rather than using them on the fly.

 

[rrcyyung1]

I never used Samus in SSBM anyway.

 

[06Falcon]

They don't actually show any gernade/claymore mine attack. However, at 2:10 it cuts to a scene where Wario is already on fire and getting knocked away. They don't show what actually sets him on fire, but it's one of Snakes moves since the other two characters on screen (Zamus & Meta Knight) wouldn't have a fire base move.

Snake is directly under the platform Wario gets set a flame/knocked away, so I'm thinking he set a claymore mine (down-b?) then dropped through to the bottom. Then Wario was comming to attack him and landed on the mine.

About Z-Samus, I really hope you don't have to change between gun & whip rather than using them on the fly.

i'm hoping for claymore mines being one of his attacks.

 

[Devastlian]

If they're claymores then I guess we've found a reason to crawl. :3 (Besides moving underneath projectiles.)

 

[FlipTroopa]

OKAY, so i finally got the Quicktime version and am watching frame by frame. Meta Knight and Pit are doing rolls. They clearly exit the plain of the stage, which is exactly what Mewtwo, Zelda, Marth, etc. etc. did for their rolls. And it is possible to input the command for a roll quickly enough that the shield doesn't appear. So yeah, Meta Knight and Pit just have really fast rolls

I think we do actually see Pit's neutral A. He appears to do his Forward Smash without his second Smash when he first appears behind Meta Knight, then follows it with a very light horizontal slash from the other blade. So he DOES use that move in the trailer... His USmash is shown against Meta Knight on the Pokemon Stadium level, and the reach looks amazing. He floats up as he does the multi-hitting smash, making it like a better version of Link's from Melee that keeps the opponent in for all three hits. He then proceeds to do either his Fair or Nair (though something that's more likely his Fair was in the E3 trailer, where he slashes both blades apart in midair). After that, he does a three hit combo on Wario, which I'm not sure if it's a Ftilt or his Rapid A. Later on, he does a rapid spinning attack on the ground that would work much better as a Rapid A, so I'm not sure what it is. Who has a Ftilt that hits more than once? (interestingly, Meta Knight seems to ALSO have tilts that are multihits)

Zamus shows some clipping (ONOS! :O) Her fingers appear through the gun as she's messing with it, and her ponytail pops out her boob when she's doing her headstand kick XD Those are all her tilts, definitely. No crazy sparkle. Also, her gun does change appearance between whip and shooting mode, and it's in the shooting mode (according to the E3 trailer) while she's shown fighting... Hmm

Okay, Snake is rolling around Pit, definitely. So what the hell is he doing when he rolls into that crawl???? Also, the RPG is a RPG, not a rocket launcher. But what's weird is that when he uses it, and it definitely has to be a Smash because there's the sparkle and everything, he slides forwards towards Pit. How is that managed? Also, I can't tell if he TOO has a Two-step Smash, or if his tilt is multihit, or what... That knee followed by an overhead hammer swing is so weird I can't place what A attack it would be.

Okay, some other tidbits in the final few scenes:

--Zamus has a really high second jump. Crazy.
--Pikachu is doing WHAT? It looks like a Down Smash and Mario starts Tornadoing into him, but then Pikachu starts going schizo and I can't quite make it out if its a throw or what. Zamus falls into it, and both her and Mario go flying. Pit does his cutting Fair to Mario right at fade out.
--It seems the castle/Fire Emblem stage has fireballs that come crashing all over the place. Cool.
--Wario's mouth gets HUGE when he's hurt. Mario's Fsmash has a bigger hitbox.
--Yoshi's Island stage has little Fly Guys that buzz around the stage. You can just catch one as the screen fades.
--The platforms in this stage also change. The top platform has a different angle in different seasons, the ghost appears to move back and forth as he is closer to the main platform in one shot and far away in another, and it looks like there are giant spikes (?) lining the bottom corners of the stage, like those big "chalk" like rocks in the SNES game.
--Meta Knight has a Nair similar to Kirby's, but more akin to his jumping sword slash in Adventure/Superstar. Nice.
--Wario's second jump has him doing a cannonball
--I guess I should mention that Wario's jerky movements are present everywhere in this trailer, so it looks they're here to stay
--Link has a wider range overall, which he sorely needed (less emphasis on projectile spamming, y'dig?)
--Everybody's sword glows when they slash. Link's, Pit's, and Meta Knight's.
--wtf? Wario is either crawling backwards, or doing some flying *** attack where he runs backwards into the enemy. He follows it up with Ftilt punch.
--Meta Knight glides, and it does not seem to be prompted by an attack. It looks like he may end up not having a third jump if this is the case, or he will and would basically be "EVIL PEACH" XD He definitely can "hover" by gliding, though.
--OMG ZLOL SNAKE DROPS A GRENADE/MINE AND IT BLOWS UP WARIO. You can definitely see it frame by frame. He tosses it up and destroys the platform as Pit is just below it. We can see the grenade/mine fall down, but the explosion is missed amidst the rubble. Pit flies off in a fiery mess, but it didn't too powerful, because he recovers easily. Definitely there tho...
--Snake does a freaking MONKEY LEAP for his second jump, and his Dair is some sort of boot stomp
--Pikachu IS crawling on the Yoshi's Island stage in the winter
--Wario's standing animation
--MK's Rapid A, followed by Pit's. Pit is twirling the bow like a staff in one hand, then passing it to the next, FYI. Looks a lot like Donatello. Heh..
--Okay, this is an interesting scene... Zamus, Snake, Wario, MK all on the Halberd. MK does a falling attack, then recovers by teching and rolls over the edge. He then does his Dash A, a kick, and plasters Wario. Zamus starts by dashing and doing her Dash A, which is a flying kick, and hits Snake over the edge. She then jumps twice, and gets massive air, before doing a flying kick downwards. Not sure if this is a fastfall or an actual attack, BUT she does rear up before doing it, so I'd venture a guess that it's an attack. Now, Snake uses his grenade/explosive again, but we only see his hand swing up and the explosion nails Wario. Wario recovers with his second jump, and doesn't really do anything. Snake gets nailed by Zamus, then bounces back and does a meteor just over MK's head. So there's a lot of attacks doing on in this part of the video.
--Woah, wtf? It's the new Great Fox that Fox is fighting on, but the original is in the background too! It's in a fight with a bunch of Wolfen and Arwings.
--Fox always has his gun out during the fight. Cool.
--Wow does he have detail. He has a mine attached to his belt. Design, or something else...? His tail does end in actual "fur," and his jacket has all these zippers and stuffed pockets. It's pretty cool.
--Fox is doing his regular aerial attacks while the Great Fox enters the atmosphere...
--Looks like Fox is doing the shine, but can't be sure. That camera angle is just that; a weird camera angle. The stage itself is not rotating.

...anyways, any more comments/additions/whatever, feel free.

 

[Falco&Victory]

That stage is bnot great fox.look in the trailers background and you see greatfox. Seeing the new characters inb action is teh uberness.Gliding is not MK's recovery, as you clearly see him jump a few times then glide sideways in one fight.Just like a topic I posted,Nintendo has gone safe and instead of giving each characyter something different, they made every character kick@$$.

 

[kmkzSP1K3R]

about the possible snake downsmash, if there was a smash spark, it doesnt have to be a down smash, it COULD be a TILTED forawrd Smash. just sayin...=D

 

[Mankosuki]

about the possible snake downsmash, if there was a smash spark, it doesnt have to be a down smash, it COULD be a TILTED forawrd Smash. just sayin...=D

but then consider if it wasn't tilted down... it'd be a smash attack that's a projectile. Therefore, it has to be a D-smash.