The New Metagame Development thread with Current Metagame Discussions!

[Darxmarth23]

Well, the old one died out fast, just like these boards. With Havokks permission, I made a new one, this one.

-Threads to read first-
These threads explain the current Meta game of Link very well. They provide tips, ATs, and much more! Check 'em out!

The Link Handbook
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=226871

The Art of Link - Video Guide
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=167650

The Triforce of Courage - An Advanced Link Guide
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=194177

After you read an understand what the current Meta game is, try to find questionable things that haven't been tested. Anything that will help improve Link. I will post here some things to test after you have suggested them. Then anyone can test, and give us the results and I will post them here. I will also give credit to the testers at the bottom of this thread, but only by their consent. This will most likely be a slow process. Be patient and things will come up.

---Things Needed To Be Tested---
Q: Does Jump-Canceling a bomb throw, throwing while dashing, or performing a DACIT do the most damage with a bomb? (So basically all moving ground throws)

Q: KO %'s for

Utilt
Up Smash
Dtilt
Dair (both fastfalled, and not fastfalled)

from Center of FD -- ONLY continue testing if it KO's reliably.... aka: under 165% for heavyweights and under 140% for lightweights

Q: Which projectiles the bomb goes through?


---Things Tested---

Q:List of projectiles Dair can bounce off of / cancel out - we had one, but I cannot find it. I believe it was most everything but the PK fires and G&W's Bacon (only 'character made' projectiles...)

A:Bowser: Fire (like I said before it works kinda but don't try it)
Charizard: Fire (sort of don't try it) Rock Smash (broken pieces only)
G&W: Bacon
Ice Climbers: Ice (b move)
Ivysaur: Boomerang
King Dedede: Waddle D and Waddle Doo and Gordo
Link: Arrows and Boomerang
Lucario: Aura Ball (fully charged as well)
Lucas: PK Thunder
Luigi: Fireballs
Mario: Fireballs and FLUDD
Ness: PK Thunder only
Olimar: Pikmin
Peach: Turnip
Pikachu: Thundershock
Pit: Arrows
Rob: Gyros only
Samus: Both types of missles, charge beam (even fully charged)
Snake: Grenades and Nikita and Box
Squirtle: Watergun
Toon Link: arrows and boomerang
Wario: Bike Wheels and Bike
ZSS: Armor pieces and Stun Gun
Zelda: Din's Fire

Q:Grab %'s - I believe they all do 7%, but they may have different decay rates. I need someone to start a match, throw the opponent with ONE throw (eg; bthrow) for 7 times and after each throw record the % given, and the % overall.

A:They all have the same decay rate which goes:

Throw 1 -7%
Throw 2 - 6%
Throw 3 - 6%
Throw 4 - 5%
Throw 5 - 5%
Throw 6 - 4%
Throw 7 - 4%

Q:What projectiles will our arrows cancel/beat?

A: Click Here to Find Out

---Testers---

Lawlz
Havokk
Straked

Also, to keep this thread alive, you can discuss the current Metagame, and what Links tier placement be in June. Good posts that provide information and arguments will be put up here for recognition.

NO SPAM. SPAM WILL BE REPORTED.

My Current Little Message: Sorry if I had been a bit slow at updating things. If you have a complaint post it here.

 

[SuSa]

Needs to be tested:

Does Jump-Canceling a bomb throw, throwing while dashing, or performing a DACIT do the most damage with a bomb? (So basically all moving ground throws)

__________________

Question:
List of projectiles Dair can bounce off of / cancel out - we had one, but I cannot find it. I believe it was most everything but the PK fires and G&W's Bacon (only 'character made' projectiles...)

Answered:

Bowser: Fire (like I said before it works kinda but don't try it)
Charizard: Fire (sort of don't try it) Rock Smash (broken pieces only)
G&W: Bacon
Ice Climbers: Ice (b move)
Ivysaur: Boomerang
King Dedede: Waddle D and Waddle Doo and Gordo
Link: Arrows and Boomerang
Lucario: Aura Ball (fully charged as well)
Lucas: PK Thunder
Luigi: Fireballs
Mario: Fireballs and FLUDD
Ness: PK Thunder only
Olimar: Pikmin
Peach: Turnip
Pikachu: Thundershock
Pit: Arrows
Rob: Gyros only
Samus: Both types of missles, charge beam (even fully charged)
Snake: Grenades and Nikita and Box
Squirtle: Watergun
Toon Link: arrows and boomerang
Wario: Bike Wheels and Bike
ZSS: Armor pieces and Stun Gun
Zelda: Din's Fire

__________________

Question:
Grab %'s - I believe they all do 7%, but they may have different decay rates. I need someone to start a match, throw the opponent with ONE throw (eg; bthrow) for 7 times and after each throw record the % given, and the % overall.

Answered:

They all have the same decay rate which goes:

Throw 1 -7%
Throw 2 - 6%
Throw 3 - 6%
Throw 4 - 5%
Throw 5 - 5%
Throw 6 - 4%
Throw 7 - 4%

Please simply start a new match NOT IN TRAINING MODE to test this.

__________

% given for all moves in an actual BRAWL (test 1 move at a time, record the % given, restart) //not sure if our guides tested in training mode which messes up the %'s given - its rounded

__________

Platforms that you can FF through and AC (by simply FF'ing and mashing B) - Such as the Battlefield low platforms. Are there are platforms (or scenarios, like Yoshi's Island (Brawl) being tilted a large amount) that you can do this

__________

Gale "Gliding" -- Run off stage, and right before you fall off throw your boomerang. You should 'glide' and barely be able to recover. This is seen on a small level in my Link combo video somewhere: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYUAykx7mmQ

_________

Boomerang setups -- what %'s will a move put an opponent into hitstun long enough for a returning boomerang to place them in 'jab lock' position. (You can test this by putting D3 at 90%, throwing your boomerang, and timing your throw/attack to hit him into it as it returns...if you don't know what I'm talking about)

_________

I'll be testing some bomb ideas I have when I get my wii, I'll post them here later.

 

[Lawz.]

Projectiles that dair bounced off of:

Mario: Fireballs
Link: Arrows and Boomerang
Samus: Both types of missles, charge beam (even fully charged)
Pikachu: Thundershock
Luigi: Fireballs
Pit: Arrows
Ivysaur: Boomerang
Snake: Grenades
Peach: Turnip
Ice Climbers: Ice (b move)
Dedede: Waddle D and Waddle Doo (not Gordo)
Lucario: Aura Ball (fully charged as well)
Ness: PK Thunder only
Wario: Bike Wheels
TL: arrows and boomerang
Rob: Gyros only
Olimar: Pikmin
Lucas: PK Thunder
ZSS: armor pieces and Stun Gun
Charizard: Fire (sort of don't try it) Rock Smash (broken pieces only)
Bowser: Fire (like I said before it works kinda but don't try it)

These are the projectiles that Link's dair can bounce off of. But some things like fire shouldn't be counted on at all. It works but don't think of doing it.

 

[SuSa]

To bounce off the fire, you need to be lucky enough to hit its ever-changing hitbox. That's why its a "sort of"? (assuming pretty basic Brawl theory here)

Thanks for the list I'll let Darxmarth update it. (Although I could just edit his post for him) I want it ran how he would run it.

Made it ABC order + found Lootics post so I added things:

Bowser: Fire (like I said before it works kinda but don't try it)
Charizard: Fire (sort of don't try it) Rock Smash (broken pieces only)
G&W: Bacon
Ice Climbers: Ice (b move)
Ivysaur: Boomerang
King Dedede: Waddle D and Waddle Doo and Gordo
Link: Arrows and Boomerang
Lucario: Aura Ball (fully charged as well)
Lucas: PK Thunder
Luigi: Fireballs
Mario: Fireballs and FLUDD
Ness: PK Thunder only
Olimar: Pikmin
Peach: Turnip
Pikachu: Thundershock
Pit: Arrows
Rob: Gyros only
Samus: Both types of missles, charge beam (even fully charged)
Snake: Grenades and Nikita and Box
Squirtle: Watergun
Toon Link: arrows and boomerang
Wario: Bike Wheels and Bike
ZSS: Armor pieces and Stun Gun
Zelda: Din's Fire

 

[Lawz.]

To bounce off the fire, you need to be lucky enough to hit its ever-changing hitbox. That's why its a "sort of"? (assuming pretty basic Brawl theory here)

Thanks for the list I'll let Darxmarth update it. (Although I could just edit his post for him) I want it ran how he would run it.

Made it ABC order + found Lootics post so I added things:

well you can bounce off but like you said the hit box changes which i why i said it's unreliable. it does kinda work but it's just something that's useless and should in no way be a reliable tactic. also i don't remember being able to jump off the nikita because i did it and it would just explode but maybe i did something wrong.

I also did the throws like you said and they seem to have the same decay rate which i thought was weird.

They all seem to go like this:

7>6>6>5>5>4>4. If someone else could test this as well to confirm this that would be great but this is what i got.

 

[SuSa]

That simply means they all do the same % (which is highly doubtfully an even 7%)

So 7, 6, 6, 5, 5, 4, 4... thanks for testing.

Theres still more to test if you're interested.

Updated my second post.

Another thing to test:

KO %'s for

Utilt
Up Smash
Dtilt
Dair (both fastfalled, and not fastfalled)

from Center of FD -- ONLY continue testing if it KO's reliably.... aka: under 165% for heavyweights and under 140% for lightweights

 

[Lawz.]

That simply means they all do the same % (which is highly doubtfully an even 7%)

So 7, 6, 6, 5, 5, 4, 4... thanks for testing.

Theres still more to test if you're interested.

no problem i may try some later but not right now i got some stuff to do.

 

[chris the brawler]

so can gimping by Marios FLUDD be avoided by dair bouncing?

 

[SuSa]

so can gimping by Marios FLUDD be avoided by dair bouncing?

So long as he hits the dair hitbox, and not Link. -- 99% sure

 

[chris the brawler]

So long as he hits the dair hitbox, and not Link. -- 99% sure

heh, thats pretty good to know

 

[3xSwords]

Can you guys also test which projectiles the bomb goes through? I know for sure that it goes through TL's arrows so I'm guessing it goes through Link's arrows too. Any others?

 

[SuSa]

We're currently testing what arrows go through, we may test that afterwards.

 

[:mad:]

I'll go ahead and reserve this post for my results. I fixed the Wii, turns out I had a Wiimote malfunction. I'm guessing it was the batteries.

I'll start arrow testing now.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Hopefully I have updated everything to everyone's standards.

 

[theONEjanitor]

In case you guys were wondering, dash throwing a bomb, DACIT'ing a bomb, and JC-throwing a bomb all do 8% damage