The NEW Bowser matchup discussion (mreh apparently died)

[BurtonEarny]

Let's face it, we really need a good Bowser Matchup thread. Bowser is still pretty much a joke to most players, even though he's gotten considerable buffs from his Melee days. Therefore, we really need some discussion to see exactly how good/bad he is. Yes, he's bad, but he's nowhere near as bad as people make him out to be.
I think this works in a pretty simple manner. We discuss the characters one by one and try to decide, as a whole, how well Bowser fares against them. This also helps the community as a whole.

The Sexy Matchup List

Matchup Key (format shamelessly stolen from the awesome Wario boards)

Green and a + means that Bowser is in an advantageous matchup.
Blue and a = means that Bowser is in an even or near-even matchup.
Red and a - means that Bowser is at a disadvantage.
Yellow means the matchup needs to be discussed.
Purple and a >< means you're fighting a Dedede.
Orange means you're fighting an Ike

Bowser = 50-50
No discussion needed really.

Captain Falcon + 60-40
Bowser's tilts and jabs essentially stop most of Falcon's ground aproaches, and Bowser's normally defensive based game can stop some of Falcon's aerial aproaches using well timed tilts, Fortresses and Fire. His Fire Breath is awesome in this matchup, since it completely shuts Falcon down. Overall, this is one of Bowser's better matchups. Don't get careless though, a good Falcon can still bring the pain to you, so don't expect this to be a cakewalk. Always watch out for Falcon's air attacks, like his Uair and especially the Knee. Take care not to get spiked as well.

I recommend staying away from a Falcon when he tries to recover, considering how one Raptor Boost (Side-B move) spike can take out a Bowser regardless of damage... unless you were hit from a high place. However, feel free to make Edgehog attempts when neccessary.
Speed is basically almost the only problem Bowser will have against him... well that and he's vulnerable to comboes due to his size. Try to keep an eye out for Falcon punches. The moves that would KO Bowser quickly is the Falcon Punch, sweetspotted Knee, and Both Falcon Spikes (Side-B and D-air).

To me, Falcon isnt hard if you can predict his fast movement. BTW, NEVER use Bowser Bomb on, unless you want to be vulnerable to Falcon Punch or knee... Unless you are trying to aim it at the edge, and for your sake, let's hope he doesnt edgehog that edge you were going for, or miss and get kneed. As for Bowser breath, I wouldnt recommend it for the same reason as the Bowser Bomb... getting Falcon Punched.

Charizard = 50-50
Fighting Charizard is as close as you can get to fighting another Bowser. Most Charizards use the same defensive playstyle that Bowser is known for. It's all about waiting for you to take the first action, and they'll counterattack accordingly. Charizard's FTilt and DTilt have good range and knockback, so you'll need to watch out for that. It wouldn't surprise me if a Bowser and a Charizard spent all day clashing tilts with one another. Watch out for Charizard's long grab range. You definitely don't want Charizard to grab you, since he has a decent grab release. Always make sure to mix up your game, since this sort of match will probably be neck to neck. Mix up your tilts with jabs and the occasional Klaw. Always remember that the sooner you get predictable, the sooner Charizard will start punishing you. Also, watch out for Charizard's Fair. Bowser is gimptastic, and Charizard will not hesitate to edgeguard, since he has a good recovery. All in all, this is a pretty even matchup. Bowser is heaver, stronger, and has faster tilts. On the other hand, Charizard has aerial priority, a better recovery, and can gimp Bowser easier then Bowser can gimp him.

Charizard suffers for the fact he's a Pokemon, and must return to switch out. He can't stay out forever.

All in all, Charizard seems to be rather equal with Bowser.

He does have some faster moves but loses weight and power in exchange for priority and aforementioned speed.

Last I remember though, some moves do give Bowser the advantage, being as Bowser is completely in control when the opponent is vulnerable. Any way that Bowser can punish is an advantage. Thusly, I'd say it's somewhere around 52/48 in Bowser's favor, but with miniscule difference, being as they both seem to counter-act each other's main advantages with the same property or opposite property, and Bowser is so god**** heavy, thusly, punishing him, which is the Charizard's main line of attack versus such a similar creature, is less applicable than the reverse.

Diddy Kong - 25-75
This match is bananas, pun intended. A good Diddy can control the stage with bananas, and Bowser has no way to deal with this. The only good I can see from this matchup is that Bowser's ground game can out prioritize Diddy's, but that really doesn't matter when Diddy can completely shut you down by simply chucking a banana. This is one hard matchup for Bowser, and the only advice I can give is to play a bit more aggressively then normal. The normally defensive Bowser will utterly fail against Diddy, who has Bananas and Peanuts to approach with. The only realistic way I see to win the match is to get in Diddy's face and keep the pressure on him with your tilts and jabs. Remember, the more time you spend in Diddy's face, the less chances he has to pull out bananas. Good luck with this though, since a good Diddy player will always have bananas out. If anything, you can try to gimp Diddy's Rocketbarrel Boost with your Fire if you want a quick KO. If he's trying to recover anywhere below the ledge, then the fire can gimp his recovery and he won't be able to use another Rocketbarrel Boost in time to reach the ledge. But let's face it, that's very unlikely to happen, but it sure is funny.

Boswer just doesn't have anything of great use against diddy. Bowser has the range, but the bananas almost totaly take the advantage from him. And since bowser is so big he is very easy to catch with a banana. Diddy also can space himself to get in a free smash if he glide tosses the banana at you and is directly in front of you(think weegee's upb close), so killing bowser isn't really as big a deal as you might think because even if the smash fails to kill its not hard to gimp bowser.(dair, sideb nuetral b, throwing bananas) Bowser really doesn't have a way to stop the bananas and since he just cant keep up with the speed of diddy, he loses... and rather soundly. All the diddy has to do is avoid one of your more laggy moves and toss a banana(which they will be carrying about 70 to 80 percent of the whole game) and they can do any number of high damage combos to you. 30-70 or 20-80 in favor of diddy

-A side note: trying to use diddy's bananas against him IS a good idea, but sadly bowser dash attack isn't great and is laggy. This means the diddy can counteract while you go throught the cooldown of the move. Diddy's dash attack is tailor made to effortlessly pick up bananas...

The stage is very important for Bowser, especially against Diddy, who'll essentially control the stage with his Bananas. He's like Snake, but ironically, the yellow fruit is more dangerous for Bowser then things like Mines, C4, and Grenades could ever be.. ><


Thankfully, Bowser does indeed fare better against Diddy if the stage isn't flat. This is one of the few matchups where I would actually consider playing on Rainbow Cruise as a counterpick. (if only for the fact that it pisses people off.)


Getting to the actual matchup though, Diddy's bananas are just flat out annoying. It's extremely hard for Bowser to pick them up, and if you get rid of them, Diddy will just make more. The only viable strategy I can think of is to as offensive as you can. Don't let that filthy monkey get out bananas. However, this is really difficult, as a good Diddy player will pull out bananas at every opportunity.

Just focus on getting the monkey off the ledge. Jumping off after him with an Fair is risky, since Diddy has 2 spikes to use against you. Hell, sometimes it's better to camp the ledge and roast the monkey with fire.

Donkey Kong - 20-80
Donkey Kong is a terrible matchup for Bowser. DK's tilts outrange Bowser's and they come out fast to boot. Due to Bowser's weight, DK could combo Bowser with repeating Utilts and Dtilts, which racks up damage fairly quick. Since DK is also freakishly strong, he can still kill Bowser at low percentages despite Bowser's large weight. To make matters even worse for Bowser, DK also has very good air game in the form of is Bair and Uair. DK has no problems approaching Bowser either, since he can simply use his Bairs to approach you, and there's really nothing you can do about it. The Bair has too much range for you to shield-grab or to Fortress out of, so you're at a severe disadvantage. Also, DK's Giant Punch is so manly that Bowser simply cannot cope with it. It's super armor frames can be abused to kill you in insane situations, and it can be used out of a Headbutt for a very mean combo. Don't even get me started about his grab-into-spike throws.

Bowser's defensive game isn't as effective on DK since the ape can out range Bowser's Ftilt and jabs. Bowser's only realistic method for approaching DK is by using his Fire. (Thankfully, this works pretty well on the ape.)

In any case, it would seem that the only easy way for Bowser to win this fight is to try and gimp DK as much as possible. As you said, fire gimping is fun, and if it doesn't work, it usually tacks on large amounts of damage in the process.

Um, why did you guys say 65-35 for DK

without mentioning his Back-Air which is basically anti-bowser.

80-20 DK easily.

A good DK has so many options against Bowser, his tilts and his B-air brutalize Bowser, to the point where it's not funny. His B-air can simply be used to approach just out of range or to jump out of shield and punish or to retreat with, not to mention his easy stage spike that Bowser is prone to or the giant punch set-ups that happen anywhere from I believe like 50 percent to 80.

DK ***** Bowser maybe even worse then Falco, I'll get to Falco later.

Got your PM Burt ^_^

Falco- 30- 70
Okay, call falco what you want: hard, annoying, whatever, the point is you are, again, the underdog in this one. Falco is going to try to chaingrab you... be ready! you can up oos to get out with good timing, and you can meteor cancel by using upb oos to stop your downward momentum. Also, falco will use the lazyflector(being campy with the laser and reflector), perfect shielding works wonders... if you arent practiced with it yet, then get that way. The problem for falco will be killing you as long as you can avoid being chainspiked. Your jab and ftilt stop pretty much everything he has to kill you. Using fire will help to edgeguard and aproach(so im told) falco, so dont be afraid of using it because of the reflector.

I personally thing the match is something like 20-80 or 25-75. It's not unwinnable, but it's going to take some very good playing.

A little tip: use the fire.

Yes, he can reflect it back at you, but it makes a very awesome edgeguard, especially against Falco's recovery. If he tries to Phantasm the ledge, blow fire. If he tries to Phantasm on to the stage and through you, blow fire anyway. His Phantasm will not go through your fire.

Fighting a Falco isn't an issue because of the chaingrab into the spike since you can cancel to safety and also escape a grab by whirling fortress, assuming the timing for the chaingrab is thrown off somehow.

What is an issue is Falco's camping game which becomes a problem on stages with few platforms to escape to. Also, when fighting up close, you need to be spot-on with your spacing distance. It's not impossible, but it's extremely difficult to fight Falco.

Fox- Currently Discussing

Mr. Game and Watch

Ganondorf

Ice Climbers

Ike
He fights for his friends eh? (will be discussed seriously at a later date)

Ivysaur

Jigglypuff

King Dedede >< YOU ARE SCREWED
Dedede can infinite grab Bowser to death. You are screwed.

Kirby

Link

Lucario

Lucas

Weegee

Mario

Marth

Meta Knight

Ness

Peach

Campachu

Captain Olimar

Pit

R.O.B.

Samus - 30-70
The matchup has already been discussed right here. While Bowser is very heavy and Samus lacks good killing ability, Samus still has some awesome advantages against Bowser. Ultimately, she outranges Bowser in nearly every way imaginable. She can shoot both types of Missiles at Bowser to wear him down and force him to go on the offensive. Plus, her Zair is absolutely sexy. Her Zair stops nearly every approach that Bowser has due to it's long range. Plus, Bowser's huge size makes it very easy to hit. Since Bowser really has no way to deal with Samus's campy playstyle, she has a clear advantage.

Shiek

Chuck Norris

Sonic

Squirtle

Toon Link

Wario

Wolf

Yoshi

Zelda

Zero Suit Samus

Okay, so this is the same thread just copied and pasted over so that I can update it myself. just keep doing what you are doing, and whileI'm not familiar w/ some of the more aesthetically pleasing techniques... this will give me a reason to learn them. Know Mreh, that this is still your OT. If anytime you return and would like the thread back, then by all means tell me and I will close this one. However, progress must be made for progress' sake, and time waits for no one... and well I'm bored. So, in lou of this, I think that we move right along in the matchup discussions.

Some new things:
If you would like to discuss a particular matchup out of order, then by all means bring it to our attention and I dont see a problem with it. I also will go with the numbers that are best supported/ most supprted(assuming the bulk of the support isn't a bunch of ignorant people who just say "agree" for the post count)

I will also be keeping up on the summaries, but I may also attach the really significant quotes to give more info on the first page. The peach boards do that and everyone really appreciates it. Ill try to quote everyone at least once as long as you give a significant contribution.

Um... I dont believe that Im as active as I once was, but I still check the boards daily to date. If such an instance arrises that I cannot change the thread in one week, just begin discussing the next matchup, and Ill update it all when I get back.

Oh one last thing. while I will try to update weekly, I also know that sometime more or less discussion is necessary to cover a matchup... so if I feel the matchup has been sufficiently covered or is dead for an extended period of time, then I will move on. Also I may give longer than a week if people are still activly involved in the discussion, or if the matchup isnt clear.
alright, with that go for it... Ill update this this evening, because I have to go mow, but go ahead and begin the next matchup. I believe most of you know me, so... I guess I wont introduce myself.

Update: Please with your post leave stages that are good counterpicks, and stage to consider banning.(just a thought) so i've got it set up BASICALLY the way I want, GIVE ME FEEDBACK! This is your thread, if you think something is missing let me know, if you approve... then let me know!

Currently discussing:


Fox!

 

[Bowser King]

Good idea. I think you should try PM himing if you already haven't.

-Bowser King

 

[~ Gheb ~]

We should do Fox now, shouldn't we? I think Booza vs Falco is already sttled to be 30:70 for Falco or higher...can't remember 100%

 

[Bowser King]

We should do Fox now, shouldn't we? I think Booza vs Falco is already sttled to be 30:70 for Falco or higher...can't remember 100%

Yeah, I think we should start fox now.

I'm sure we decided on 70:30 falco


-Bowser King

 

[Admiral Pit]

Well, I was facing a Bowser or two lately as Pit, and even though it will hurt us angels a bit by giving Bowser some info from a Pit Veteran (me). I've also used Bowser against Pit, so I know both sides of the match.

First off, Pit has poor KO capability, and Bowser has the Armor. Even though it will take Pit a while to standardly kill a Bowser (like Fsmash or Dsmash) will be estimated at around 160%, depending on what stage you're playing on, how far you are from the KO border, and how much Stale moves Fatigue the Pit has from how often he uses the move.

Bowser has slightly more range than Pit. F-tilt, Fsmash, F-air, a Side-B from the air could outprioritize Pit's Angel Ring and can hit Pit directly while he's using it.

Even though Pit's recovery is good, you can use Firebreath at the edge and aim it towards Pit. Should the Pit try to avoid it, he will waste his Up-B's time span, which might make him fall or just vulnerable to one of your attacks. Some Pits can try to DI towards to flame should they get hit by it, if they have no option. if they can.

Pit's Glide attack against Bowser's Usmash are sort of like rivals to me. If Pit can't time it well, he will suffer from the Usmash, and Vice Versa. The same goes for Pit's Glide attack vs Bowser's F-air.
The Bowser should use F-tilt, F-air, D-tilt and other good-ranged moves of his to try to keep Pit at a distance.
As one of the other threads had shown, Bowser does have a Chaingrab on Pit, but Pit isn't affected by many options, compared to poor Wario and Lucas (forget you Lucas!)


Pit, generally takes time to beat Bowser, but he does have the advantage. His arrows, when charged up will go through Bowser's Firebreath and hit Bowser.

Pit DOES have an F-throw Chainthrow on Bowser! The Pit can do it about 5 times if the Bowser doesn't DI properly. He could do it about 3 times if the Bowser DIs properly. If the Pit isn't fast enough, Bowser can use his quick Up-B to hit Pit and avoid getting grabbed again. However, some smart Pits can FAKE an attempted grab to make a Bowser do Up-B when it isn't needed, making Bowser Vulnerable to another attack.

As I've done before, a Pit F-air (B-air can work too, ocassionally) WoP (or FoP, i cant tell the difference) works well on a Bowser that tries to recover, which will build up a lot of damage.

I'm sure some are aware that Pit's Mirror Shield can reverse things when timed correctly, right? Well, his Mirror Shield can be used to "reverse" Bowser's Up-B when he's trying to recover, therefore gimping the Bowser to death.

If you are one of those Bowsers that hang on to the ledge too long, you better not be. A Pit can choose to use his D-tilt Spike, and Bowser is one of the chars that can be spiked while hanging on the ledge. The D-tilt spike will kill the Bowser no matter what percentage he's at since Bowser has poor vertical recovery.

Pit is very good at Edgeguarding. He has many options. When you're on the platform, Pit can quickly shoot an arrow to hit Bowser at long range. If Bowser is near the ledge where Pit is, Pit can use F-air or B-air to stab, U-air in an attempt to knock Bowser behind the ledge that Pit was at (U-air can send Bowser either way), or even a quick Angel Ring back onto the ledge.
If Bowser is trying to recover, Pit has many options as well. The same F-air and B-air functions, if the Pit chooses to pursue Bowser, as well as the good use of Mirror Shield to stop Bowser's Up-B. A Pit could also choose just use arrows to stop Bowser's Mid-air jump, and can go for the edgehog if he wants.


So here is the overall.

Bowser's Advantages
-Many of Bowser's moves outrange Pit's moves, especially F-tilt and F-air
-Firebreath can negate Pit's Up-B
-Pit's poor KO ability + Bowser's Armor = takes a very long time for Pit to KO Bowser
-Bowser can KO Pit somewhat quickly via Power
-Bowser has a little Chaingrab on Pit

Pit's Advantages
-Pit has an F-throw Chainthrow on Bowser. Pit can also trick the Bowser into doing his Up-B for additional Damage
-Pit has many options to stop Bowser from recovering.
-Pit's Mirror Shield is lethal to Bowser's Up-B recovery when used correctly and at the right time.
-Bowser's Size and slowness allows Pit to perform various Comboes on him. He is also a big target for Pit's arrows.
-Pit's Exceptional Edgeguarding and Ledgegame can give Bowser problems.
-Bowser is one of the chars that can get D-tilt spiked while hanging on the ledge. The D-tilt Spike will instantly KO Bowser since Bowser is very poor at vertical recovery, and that Pit's D-tilt Spike is surprisingly strong.

I'm thinking 65-35 or 70-30 for Pit.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

^ tl;dr

We're doing Fox now...

 

[BurtonEarny]

yeah well do fox now and Ill let everyone know ahead of time what the next matchup is before I put it up, but unless there is a request itll prolly just be the next one in sequence... However, thanks admiral bowser Ill quote it for the pit matchup when the time comes.

Alright the thread has been updated so give me your thoughts!!! Feedback people!

FOX:

HOLY CRAP! If you are on a larger stage like FD or even SV, prepare to be swearing the entire match if you are bowser...

Is Blaster is the most annoying, as it's possible to get 100%+ in 10 secs... O_o Fox is fast, so, with the help of a Fox Illusion or Shine, he can easily escape and camp...

His Fox Illusion is annoying as well, as he can escape and camp, to begin the Blaster Cycle again...

Shine is a reflector, like wolfs, it covers both sides and can reflect his fire breath... Your best bet is to trick fox into using Shine, and then grabbing and pounding him to build up damage... If it hits you, you'll be forced back quite far, as it has a good horizontal Knockback.

Fire Fox isn't a threat... Roll or Dodge this and you'll be fine...

He can't use a DAir Spike like Falco and Wolfs, so you're kinda safe when recovering...

His smash attacks are quick, but you can or roll and pummel him while he's vulnerable...

Try not to use any attacks that will leave you vunerable, unless fox is vulnerable. A missed UpB or DownD could let fox get 20% with his blaster or get a FowardB in and slowly chip away at your damage...

A Foward or Up B will leave Fox vunnerable, so make good use of it by doing a quick Bowser bomb, If Fox is in the air, charge a FSmash, and give him 20 to 50 percent damage...

This is about it for Fox... 65-35, fox's favor...

this is someones random contribution... ill add mine a little l8r, but it took me forever to get the thread set up to my liking.

 

[KevinM]

Yeah I think this is our fourth match-up thread.
Raising the bar.

 

[BurtonEarny]

Yeah I think this is our fourth match-up thread.
Raising the bar.

I know, but the other major one is dead, alas.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I really do hope that my info about Pit is useful. I do love talking about my favorite char (Pit) too.
Burton also said this...
"If you would like to discuss a particular matchup out of order, then by all means bring it to our attention and I dont see a problem with it."

Therefore, I decided to explain the matchup against Pit, since I do love him afterall.

For Stages, I can say that Norfair is a REALLY good stage for Pit, for arrows and arrow looping are good there, a lot of space to glide, Mirror Shield can block 2 of the Hazards (Lavafalls from the left or right of screen, and the small lava blasts comin from the back), and can use the platforms to his advantage. His U-air will be a good tool here because of that. He can also fly over the Big Lava Wave with his Up-B to avoid damage.

The stage's small platforms will stop Pit from doing a bit of CGing though, but the advantages that Pit has here are very troubling especially against a big target like Bowser.
That's just more info for you Bowsers. You don't wanna face a Pit at Norfair, because it's NOT fair... For Bowser. A Pit can fly from one side to the other, which makes a coward hard to chase down here, as well.

I hope the other Pits don't know about this, or they might grab me and then I'd probably yell out, "Let me go!"

 

[BurtonEarny]

Alright, let me restate this for a more clear and organized thread. While it doesnt bother me to cover a matchup out of order... I would prefer the discussion to pertain to the matchup currently under disscusion. Admiral, just remind about sat. or sun. and I'll try to remember to cover pit next, and it seems like youll be the go to guy. But for now, lets all try to cover the fox matchup.

My thoughts: Okay, fox is a little less dangerous in ways than falco, and moreso in others. his blaster is much faster, but lacks hitstun so you dont have to worry about having a hard time closing a distance gap while eating laser damage. He cant thro his refelctor, so you dont need to worry about that mid range projectile either. Although fox has a much faster running speed, and more powerful smashes. Fox will have no trouble closing in and hitting a kill move if you choose to use a laggy move carelessly. While this is the case, fox doesn't really have an effective way to deal with the range of tilts and jabs... moreso jabs because ftilt is actually laggy enough to get punished by a close enough fox. Your air aproaches work much better against fox than falco, while the fire can be less effective. As an edgeguard, however, the fire can be used to gain wonderful results as usual. Really, imo, a better matchup than falco. While i still give fox and advantage, its only 65-35 range. and only really because he can punish you well and balst you and retreat to laser spam. Note: since the fortress is so high priority, you cant be shined out of it.(smiles)

Stages to consider:
Battlefield (takes away run room and gives you platforms)
Brinstar (you can hide behind the breakable parts of the stage to protect yourself from his laser, plus you get platforms and lava to force your opponent onto the platforms)

Stages to avoid
Final destination and the like (flat and they can run away and blast you, then side b or run rinse and repeat to annoy you)

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Fox's hit+run tactics can be very annoying but he lacks approaches. He has a combo that always works: Dair -> grab so shieldgrab him into some grab release crap to deal dmg. He dies very fast but be aware that his usmash can be deadly, if he keeps it fresh...


....maybe 40:60 for Fox?

 

[Flayl]

So how many matchups are you guys actually going to say neutral

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't know...it all depends on how much you can use your grab release crap

 

[BurtonEarny]

So how many matchups are you guys actually going to say neutral

probably not many... but it was in the op, so I just copied it over.

Anyway, it needs to be tested if you can upb after the dair to stop the grab. I dont have my wii so I cant.

 

[DanGR]

"If you would like to discuss a particular matchup out of order, then by all means bring it to our attention and I dont see a problem with it."
-OP

I'd like to go ahead and get Olimar out of the way so I can add the matchup to the chart I've got in the tactical forum.

Anyways, would you mind putting the matchup at around 70/30-80/20ish?

 

[Blackbelt]

I'll follow Dangr's lead, as I am fond of his ever growing chart.


The Lucas board has got him at 60-40, Lucas advantage. Do you agree or disagree?

 

[BurtonEarny]

um to Dangr and blackbelt... I agree more with the olimar(70- 30) than the lucas, but I would say go ahead... as bowser metagame isnt really going anywhere and anything to help matchup will probably not be discovered for a long time(if ever). If something arisses and the matchups arent put at those numbers(dont see why they wouldnt be) then I will pm you.

 

[GenoGar]

Fox can be easily gimped by fire. FD gives Bowser an advantage because Fox only has one platform he can recover to. If Fox recovers above Bowser on a stage like FD, it would give Bowser more options to edgeguard with.

I would avoid Bowser Bombing and Dair because of Fox's quick up smash.

Uhhh... I can't think of anything else. Fox is very quick on the ground with very quick smashes, so I would avoid being overly aggressive because Fox can nimbly out maneuver all of your attacks. Bowser's tilts and aerials technically out-range Fox's tilts and aerials, but Fox's comes out faster and can combo Bowser extremely well.

Those are just the basic stuff though... can't really go in depth because I haven't faced a good Fox yet.

I would agree with the earlier posts... it's easier than Falco, it's doable, but still an up-hill battle.

 

[BurtonEarny]

Fox is very quick on the ground with very quick smashes, so I would avoid being overly aggressive because Fox can nimbly out maneuver all of your attacks.

Which is why NOT having platforms is so bad... youll eat blaster until you can get over to him, and then you face having to deal with a repeat(which he will probably try to do). Bowser needs platforms to escape, and to allow more pressure.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I already said my part with Pit and all, though i might get more info later.
As for Fox, his typical D-air to U-tilt or Usmash combo will hurt Bowser greatly. Since Fox can stall in the air with his reflector, it's tempting to stay under a Fox and get D-aired.

I personally hate fighting a Fox on FD strictly because of the possible blaster spam. This is where I recommend a stage that isnt completely flat, or has more than 1 platform, like BF. But as always, I recommend the stage to be kinda small (again, BF and maybe SV) so the Fox wont just run away and Blaster you. I had that happen to my Bowser before. Such a coward that Fox was...

 

[BurtonEarny]

Such a coward that Fox was...

Well... you can look at it that way, but you also must concede that few characters can match bowsers range when up cloe. A well spaced ftilt is longer than anything fox has really. So, when faced with that fox WILL try to make it easier on himself. Bowser is imo one of the best close rangers in the game simply because of his "long" close range, couple that with an upb oos on occasion and an opponent that isnt experienced with the matchup will fall back on something that everyone knows bowser has trouble with... projectiles. claw hopping can help keep you above blaster range.

 

[Mmac]

It seems like Mreh died again, and Burton seems active. So I'll bump for you guys

 

[MrEh]

It seems like Mreh died again, and Burton seems active. So I'll bump for you guys

Like clockwork, I'm back every month or so to spice things up.

Truth to be told...I haven't been around because my internet was down. It got repaired last week (finally...) so I should be able to spend more time here.

 

[QUIVO]

Bowser can be tough for Tlink if my spacing is bad.

Fortress from shield after a bair/nair is good. Bair usually means two bairs though.

Grab release ftilt, or just ftilt in general works well.

Most of tlink's approaches would be from short hops. Bowser's flames will eat projectiles and short hopped aerial approaches

Powershield projectile's to approach is great.

I wouldn't recommend ever going for uair. Bomb s and dair say hi.

I think Bowser's Ftilt is longer than Tlink's Zair.

I'll try to think of more and psot them

 

[MrEh]

Toon Link is annoying, and being overly offensive might actually help Bowser out in the matchup.

- First off, learn to shield and get around the projectile spam. Run into your shield, and do whatever it takes to approach him.

- Bowser's Jab is absolutely delicious. Remember that your Jab comes out almost instantly, and it has almost as much range as your Ftilt. Best of all, it's very safe. If TLink shields, then you can follow up with more jabs or a tilt. If he tries to spot dodge, then just keep jabbing. If he tires to roll behind you, you can Fortress him. If he tries to roll away, you can blow fire or something.

- Be aggressive. Get as close to TLink as possible to prevent him from utilizing his projectile spam. After getting through the projectile spam, forcing TLink to go on defensive with his other moves is a great way to screw him up. Remember that Bowser's Jabs and Tilts beat a lot of things, and TLink is no exception.

- If the TLink your playing is fond of Bair and Zair spamming, make sure you practice shielding. Jabs, Tilts, and Fortressing out of a shield gives Bowser lots of options to try to counter this. Also, always remember that Bowser's fire will destroy any short hopped aerial that TLink throws at you.

- And like QUIVO said, attempting an Uair is bad idea. TLink's Dair cuts right trough you.

 

[Deoxys]

Can you do MK? You're one of the few characters that might be able to go even with him....

 

[Mmac]

Hmmm... Maybe a quicker solution is to post all the matchup ratio's from what you think they are, and then people can discuss what they think is wrong.....

You guys are moving very slow...

 

[~ Gheb ~]

There aren't many guys here, after all :/

 

[Sesshomuronay]

What do you bowsers think of the Bowser vs Wolf matchup?

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Lemme know when you guys discuss Bowser vs Dedede outside of small step chaingrabbing, I love this matchup(me being Bowser of course).

 

[SaltyKracka]

Manondorf is the most.

Manly, that is.

 

[Bowser King]

Hmmm... Maybe a quicker solution is to post all the matchup ratio's from what you think they are, and then people can discuss what they think is wrong.....

You guys are moving very slow...

That's what I was thinking. Every time 1 of these threads arem made I don't bother as they never get updated...

-Bowser King

 

[Crzy]

You guys made fighting TL so easy. XD I play a TL user that plays aggressive, but fights smart. He's fast with the Nairs, Bairs, and Zairs while using projectiles to keep me at bay and on my toes. He constantly hit me with the Bair combo(**** near mastered the thing) and I had little to no room to do anything. @_@

I tried to get aggressive and he didn't give me the chance. @_@

 

[Vex Kasrani]

You guys made fighting TL so easy. XD I play a TL user that plays aggressive, but fights smart. He's fast with the Nairs, Bairs, and Zairs while using projectiles to keep me at bay and on my toes. He constantly hit me with the Bair combo(**** near mastered the thing) and I had little to no room to do anything. @_@

I tried to get aggressive and he didn't give me the chance. @_@

Powershielding makes it so much easier to fight toonlink.

 

[Rugaji4]

Toon Link is one of the characters I'd have a tough time fighting with Bowser..constantly Nair and bombing, arrows, it's really something I'd get annoyed at when I use my Bowser.

 

[Toronto Joe]

how does marth do vs bowser? im trying to find a marth counter atm

 

[Hixxy]

Bowser isn't a Marth counter.

 

[DDM]

I will be VERY interested to see when Sonic comes up, and hopefully have a chance to put my Sonic up against some Bowsers here.