The Nebraska 9 (PM Singles Stagelist)

[Kulprit]

Yeah, just echoing what Jester said; we have the Blue Bowser's Alt on our scene's custom build and people definitely prefer it over the original since I have heard complaints about that. But Blue Bowser's is a godsend since the air isn't any color now. I definitely suggest other scenes that run Bowser's to have a custom build optional for people to have w/ Blue Bowser's as a choice.

Here's Nebraska's custom build: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8dchbDGV0gobkdxdDRQb2pKdjg/view?pageId=103592611551531803611

 

[Bazkip]

A modified version of it that removes the chains would be nice to have as well.

Edit: Oh also, you should put a link to the custom build in the first post

 

[.alizarin]

i brought the build with blue bc to a 7 person meetup thing and most of the people said their eyes hurt after the first hour or two of play and everyone said that it's just visually distracting even without the red lava. then someone disabled it from the random select lol

again, might not be an issue to most people and nebraska, i just thought i'd throw in some votes for less obnoxious visual edits or a different stage altogether if that's even possible

 

[Narpas_sword]

I played on blue for about 10 seconds before lrastarting.

Maybe on a CRT with colour set to 3/100. But on anything with a remotely good image it made my eyes water =/

 

[Bazkip]

Yeah it's not really much better cause it's still so bright
Instead of switching the colour, better solution would just be to dull it.

 

[DMG]

Change the lava to a river of my salty tears

 

[.alizarin]

can we just remove the lava and make it into a pretty castle

 

[DMG]

Ya let's make it Bowser's Flower Garden with Golden Bunnies and Toads frolicing in bliss

Edit: I am dead serious

 

[trash?]

gusty garden galaxy is a great aesthetic to work with since the discussion just suddenly shifted to "how pretty can this castle get"

 

[MLGF]

Well, I've been trying to run Nebraska at tournaments and I've gotten a wide array of feedback.

1) Blue Bowser's is significantly better, but still has problems. The stage is rather dark compared to the bright lava so it's easy to lose focus of what's going on, also it's difficult to see platforms immediately. I love the idea of an entirely different skin, but would like to still see a Bowser's Castle theme.
2) That small slope is a great john generator
3) Some people know so little of the stage that they don't know its blastzones/size.
4) As an Ike main, adding any stage with walls has people claiming I'm biased.

 

[4tlas]

4) As an Ike main, adding any stage with walls has people claiming I'm biased.

I remember one time at SG we had a stagelist with the same number of walled stages as normal and the same number of small stages as normal. It was "too good for Ike". Fortunately I'm not an Ike main so nobody thought I was being biased, but still.

 

[JesteRace]

Seriously? The hate for Ike is real. Nebraska doesn't have Ikes, so that hasn't come up, but like, wow, that's really dumb.

 

[nimigoha]

Walls are good for like every single character, they're just better for some. Having an even number of walled stages as unwalled makes sense.

And I think a stagelist can only be "too good for X" if the ban and CP system allow them to do certain stuff. Like, the only way a stagelist would be "too good for Ike" would be if only 2 stages didn't have walls, and he would ban both on your CP so you could never take him to a stage without walls.

 

[JesteRace]

But, like... there's more to Ike than his recovery. How does a stage having a wall automatically make it a stage that favors Ike?

 

[MLGF]

It has to do with stages like Green Hill being a genuinely good Ike stage, even without the walls.
Short wall blastzones, small so my stage control is great, etc, etc. Wario Land is the same way.
A lot of walled stages are usually small and medium, with layouts that really appeal to Ike, so people genuinely think walled stages give Ike more innate advantages then they really do.

And by "people" I mean like 2 guys, one of which is a Lylat Cruise advocate so uh... sorry for exaggerating.

 

[4tlas]

But, like... there's more to Ike than his recovery. How does a stage having a wall automatically make it a stage that favors Ike?

Most walled stages are also small, which is good for Ike as well.

 

[nimigoha]

That's one of the problems with every single stagelist. It's unfortunate, but attributes aren't well distributed. Many stages are close to big stage = big ceiling = big side BZ or same for medium/small.

It's why I had the crazy idea of having a stagelist with Skyworld, which has a tiny stage with huge blast zones.

Also why I loved Kneato's altered build. Small and Medium and Large blast zones for all three sizes of stage. It was great.

 

[Kneato]

There has been so much argument and nitpicking I'm at the point of saying screw it, all stages legal. Players have to mutually agree on all stage picks. If there is any disagreement, you play on ****ing spear pillar.

 

[DMG]

There has been so much argument and nitpicking I'm at the point of saying screw it, all stages legal. Players have to mutually agree on all stage picks. If there is any disagreement, you play on ****ing spear pillar.

FD only

 

[JOE!]

And vertical blast zones. Well, they're pretty unfortunate no matter what the stagelist is.

For WL/PS2/FD/SV/BF/FoD/GHZ which are the 7 stages being included on pretty much every list, you have:

173, 181, 188, 195, 200, 203, 205 respectively. 7 stages within 32 units. Dreamland (250) is 39 units larger than the next largest stage (Delfino at 211). It's a pretty terrible spread regardless of what stages you bring in. Bowser's Castle is 191.

Just to note, each unit of vertical distance may as well be like, 5 units of horzontal due to how they work.

Not only is gravity pulling you down per frame when sent upwards, but you have to be at a certain velocity + in hitstun to actually die past a top blastzone.

 

[nimigoha]

Didn't know there was a velocity factor, just thought it had to be tumble hitstun. Interesting.

 

[4tlas]

Didn't know there was a velocity factor, just thought it had to be tumble hitstun. Interesting.

Escape velocity is what he means I believe. You know, if you aren't hit hard enough gravity will stop you before the top blastzone, while if you aren't hit hard enough off a side blastzone you still might die to gravity, gimps, or edgeguards.

 

[JOE!]

Im not sure on the sides, but I know that off the ceiling you need to have a velocity of 2.4 or greater to actually die.

 

[JesteRace]

Just to note, each unit of vertical distance may as well be like, 5 units of horzontal due to how they work.

Not only is gravity pulling you down per frame when sent upwards, but you have to be at a certain velocity + in hitstun to actually die past a top blastzone.

Even more reason Dreamland sucks.

 

[JOE!]

Just to expand on this, I am 99% sure only the top blastzone has this rule. You can side B as (Spacies) to kill yourself to the side, but even Zard can't fly up and Up B to kill himself, etc.

Strong Badam confirm?

 

[nimigoha]

I'm like 100% certain that the side and bottom blast zones are just literal thresholds, you just need to pass over them to die and that's the only requirement.

Although I don't know how much of you needs to. Like is it any hurtbox, or all of your hurtbox, or what I think most likely, all of your TopN. That's a total guess though.

 

[JesteRace]

No, I think Joe is right. Remember the Luigi up-b latter thing? Two Luigi's can just up-b each other (weak hit) to infinity and never die.

 

[Strong Badam]

Just to expand on this, I am 99% sure only the top blastzone has this rule. You can side B as (Spacies) to kill yourself to the side, but even Zard can't fly up and Up B to kill himself, etc.

Strong Badam confirm?

Correct =)

 

[DMG]

Wario broke that rule with Waft. You can poot all the way up to Heaven.

 

[CORY]

He's also not in hitstun, so no rules broken.

 

[4tlas]

The rule is you need to be in hitstun as you pass the top blastzone, which is why you can't kill yourself off the top. If there's a minimal velocity required it must be because that's the minimum gravity will change your velocity on that frame before calculating if you've moved and died.

 

[Strong Badam]

You need to be suffering from at least X knockback to die off the top. Don't remember what it is but it's why character-induced momentum doesn't trigger death.

Wario broke that rule with Waft. You can poot all the way up to Heaven.

Not true in PM.

 

[DMG]

Ye I meant in Brawl. It was quite a sad fate to die as Wario, from full waft sending you off the top. I will never forgive Sakurai

 

[Kaeldiar]

*cries tears of joy* This is beautiful