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The mindset of team building

ss118

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
3,127
Location
Savannah, Georgia
Hello

Team building is a difficult process in which multiple pokemon are chosen with seperate movesets, EVs, and items. There are almost infinite possibilities to creating a team because of the amount of pokemon available to us.

My question to you is: how do you decide on six particular pokemon? What warrants them to occupy a slot over another pokemon?

The newer players will always go with "favorites". This is a fact, as they don't really know what is amazing and what is ok. It's not their fault: it's just how it is. Most of the "cool" pokemon can be exceptionally powerful when played right(Lucario, Pikachu), but random pokemon teams just don't work very well(eeveelution teams are usually very redundant and aren't flexible enough to consistently win a series of battles). Some players lack the common sense to check for overlapping weaknesses and end up with something like 5 electric weaknesses. However, through experience they "evolve"(lol) into a mediocre player.

The mediocre player is when you actually start considering yourself a competitive player. They often start designating their teams without overlapping weaknesses and give each pokemon a designated "role", such as a physical sweeper or a special wall. They often feel like they need to have certain things, such as Rapid Spin or Stealth Rock. Most players comprise this level, and they tend to stay this way. However, through continuous battling and team building experiences you move towards an "veteran player" level.

Veteran players usually have a team building style similar to that of the mediocre players. However, with their experience they have a good idea what to plan for, such as against certain pokemon(CMRaikou, DDTar, SDLucario) or strategies(SST Teams, stall, baton pass). what really seperates these players however is the tweaks that they make. If they find something that completely halts their strategy, they usually change an EV spread or something as to correct this problem. If Naive Lucarios with HP Ice is a problem, you may want to up up your SpecsMence's speed a bit to beat them. Using Flamethrower over Fire Blast would also be smart as to guarantee you won't lose the match-up.

Later on, certain players gain different mentalities as to how their teams work. They may play more offensively or defensively than the general player and may even go back to using "favorites", based on positive experiences from using them. They usually fight to give a pokemon on their team a slot, as a repeated role is usually a wasted role. Two pokemon who dragon dance on the same team is not a repeated role! Why is this?

Lets take a look at Dragon Dancing Tyranitar and Gyarados. Obviously, even though they both sweep in a similar way, what they are walled by and what they set up on are two completely different sets of pokemon. Cresselia fears Tyranitar but loves Gyarados. Gyarados easily DDs up on Hippowdon but it isn't as easy for Tyranitar against the sandy and hungry hippo. That's an example, mind you, but I hope I illustrated my point well enough.

Players who leave a feeling of having their own "style" are the true experts of pokemon! They make their teams in their own way and use them to their fullest potential. Why do the best players post their teams, but never really change them? It's because they know that, while other players can try to mimmick it, they are the only ones who can use the team to its fullest potential."

Every player has a different mindset as to creating a team. My mindset, from forever till yesterday, was to pick a pokemon and then to "pick someone that compliments it well." People, for the last 3 weeks, I haven't made a single team! I usually got to 4 pokemon at most and would simply give up.

My newest mindset is simply "to figure out what my current pokemon do and what I can add to further abuse it". What do I mean? Think about it n00bs. ;]
I can't tell you everything!

So to the main question: what's your mentality to team building and what kind of player do you classify yourself as?
 

0RLY

A great conversation filler at bars and parties
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
2,681
Location
Temple University, Philadelphia
My method of building teams:

Step 1:
-- I need inspiration. When I see a Pokemon with unused potential, I tend to try to build a team around that. Some other times, I need several Pokemon to build a team around. It doesn't always have to be a Pokemon, it can be a strategy, an item, an ability, whatever. Other times, it can just be "I feel like leading with Sceptile!", and I could build a team around that. My inspiration can be random at times, but other times, it leads to astounding results.

Step 2:
-- Next is one of the easier parts. I pick my lead. (Insert corny Sceptile joke here) The lead says a lot about someone's team. Getting off the first move can even decide the outcome of a battle. Sometimes, I have my lead inflict status, force my foe to switch, then set-up. Or I could throw out Stealth Rocks and try to force switches from there. One of my favorite and most successful strategies is to use a Choice lead. Opponents that think they have the upper hand because my Pokemon is too weak or too slow to beat their lead are sadly mistaken. In the first move that they try to use, they find that their lead is already defeated and I begin the match with the upper hand. Withing two moves, I have already seen two of my opponent's Pokemon and I can predict their strategy. My lead also needs to be able to support the rest of my team. If I ever fall into a bad situation, or if I get countered, I need a team mate to fall back on. This time for... Step 3!

Step 3:
-- Once I have the inspiration and lead, I try to make a center. The center is the core part of my team that leads to my victory. Most of the time, my inspiration is part of the center, but sometimes it can be random... like Sceptile! The center revolves around common things such as: setting up Stealth Rocks, creating immunities and resistances, type coverage, crippling and set-ups. This part usually takes the longest.

-- More often than not, I usually end up putting Heatran in my team to take a Fire attack for my Steel-type tank. Then I would put a Flying-type or Levitater to take the Ground-type attack. After getting a safe switch-in, I would think about what role that specific Pokemon would serve. I also think about strategies revolving around double-switching. Lets say an opposing Gyarados gets a DD boost, and my Magnezone is vulnerable. I would switch to Salamence to avoid the Earthquake, but since Gyara is still faster than me, I'm still vulnerable to Ice Fang/Stone Edge. Then I would switch to something like Vaporeon to take the Ice Fang. From then, I would be in a superior position, with Gyara being unable to hurt me much, and I can threaten it with HP (electric). Then I can support my team with Wish or fend off the bothersome Gyarados. This is just some of the things I think about when building my team.

Step 4:
-- Okay, that's all fine and dandy, after my Pokemon and their roles have been chosen I may need to fix holes in the team. I might need to change up my lead a little to match my team better. I may find that I don't have enough coverage on this Pokemon and such. I check to see whether each member of my team has a team mate to switch out to if a counter ever comes. It's not easy to counter everything, that's why we have walls.

-- Some common holes include status conditions. What do you do when your Pokemon are crippled? What do you do when your opponent lays SR and you don't have a spinner? Sometimes, I don't like sacrificing a move slot just to avoid possible problems like that. When I get stuck in this phase, I sometimes write the team down somewhere to fix the problems later. Other times, I find the team working despite the flaws. Once this step is done, my team is finished!

My playstyle is to force your opponent to make mistakes. Making mistakes makes your opponent feel like they're losing which can lead to more mistakes. For example, you've taken out 3 Pokemon on your opponent's side, but 5 of your Pokemon are damaged beyond use and your only unharmed Pokemon is in the battle right now. Your opponent sees that you have 6 Pokemon while they only have 3, it psychs them out. In fact, they don't even realize that you've shown them all of your Pokemon and you have yet to see their last Pokemon. When your opponent isn't thinking as straight as one would think in the beginning of the battle, the battle is always in your favor.

...and I'm not sure what a mentality towards team building would be, so I'll leave that unanswered for now.
 

Mewter

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
3,609
Hello


Veteran players usually have a team building style similar to that of the mediocre players. However, with their experience they have a good idea what to plan for, such as against certain pokemon(CMRaikou, DDTar, SDLucario) or strategies(SST Teams, stall, baton pass). what really seperates these players however is the tweaks that they make. If they find something that completely halts their strategy, they usually change an EV spread or something as to correct this problem. If Naive Lucarios with HP Ice is a problem, you may want to up up your SpecsMence's speed a bit to beat them. Using Flamethrower over Fire Blast would also be smart as to guarantee you won't lose the match-up.
I fall into this category!
(Please don't use my Rating Room team as an example for my Pokemon. Those are just some of my sweepers)

When I build a team, I try to
1) Include 1 or two sweepers with some surprises, a couple of stat passers, wearer-outers, and healers/ status inflicting things with maybe a hazer.
2)Give most of my pokemon type advantages
3)Give my pokemon moves that can beat their weaknesses
4)Include some baton passing/ item swapping/ healing strategy
5)Prepare some pokes for annoying Sandstorm tyranitar/ Sandstorm Garchomp/ leftovers toxic facade Blissey/ sleep killer stuff.
6) Give my Pokemon cool names to top it off

Battle Tactics:
Inflict status and follow up with defenses, and then weaken the opposing pokemon to a state where it is easy to faint, unless they switch out, and use another pokemon (use reverse reverse psychology to determine type advantage) Switch out myself to a wall. Unleash status effect, sweep them, and eat them.) I like following up with myleftovers venusaur to put them to sleep and raise SP Att while they're out. Then sunny day and solar beam.

I usually put different types into my team.
1: Fire (Charizard, Infernape)
2:Electric( Electivire, Luxray, Raichu, stuffs)
3:water( Starmie, Vaporeon)
4: Ground/ Rock:( Garchomp? Steelix? Aerodactyl?)
5: Ground/Steel/ Ghost(Scizor, Lucario*no*, Gengar)
6: Flying.Psychic(Alakazam, Bronzong)
Startegy:
Damage their pokemon as much as you can while keeping your up strong with stat boosts*Max stat boosted Electivire!* And recover. Trick them and play mindgames, then follow up with some physical attacks, since most pokemon have low defense, and if your pokemon has great attack and you guess their swithc correctly, they're out anyways.
 

RedPeppers

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
672
Location
"La La Land"
I like the essay. I have a really fun team to use right now, that I just came up with by sticking some of my decent favorites together, and replacing them one by one. It's a fun way to build a team that's just for goofing around.
 

Firus

You know what? I am good.
BRoomer
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Apr 7, 2008
Messages
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NNID
OctagonalWalnut
3DS FC
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I suppose I'd technically fall into the "newer players" category, although I'm not at all new to Pokemon. I tend to build my teams around what Pokemon I can find that are available to me, and out of that, which ones do I like best/fit best in my team. I don't really go for a competitive team, I'm not big on that. I EV train, give appropriate items, and give diverse movesets, as well as having a diverse team. But I build my teams mostly for the 1 Player mode, not multiplayer. I do use some discretion in picking Pokemon -- for example, while I would've loved to use the first squirrel Pokemon (Pachirisu) on my team in Diamond, I saw that it had little to no moveset potential and wasn't very strong. But I don't use any attacks that don't attack, save for healing ones, and even those I rarely use. I tried putting Calm Mind on my Gardevoir in my Ruby team, and I eventually replaced it with Shadow Ball because I never used Calm Mind--and even when I did, it just screwed me up. That's just how I play Pokemon.

And as I'm not incredibly active in the competitive community, I'm not familiar with all of these specific movesets for Pokemon. I visit Serebii regularly and check the Pokemon of the Week and read through everything, because it's an interesting read, but...I just don't build teams for competitivity. I've always been a single-player kind of person, so I play the games for that purpose, and not for competing.
 

jigglyppuff8

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 10, 2006
Messages
1,241
Location
PA, USA ⊂(゚ヮ゚)⊃
IMA EXPRRT CUZ I GOT PALKIA AND DIALGA AND GIRATINA AND EMPOLEON AND TORTERRA AND INFERNAPE.

First things first. Always put in a Flygon as a phys. or sp. sweeper. Then I proceed to evenly distribute physically based and specially based pokemon. Next I place a good distribution of sweepers, walls, etc. Next, I make sure there are no glaring weaknesses. I consider myself mediocre
 

zrky

Smash Lol'd
Joined
Jun 1, 2008
Messages
3,265
Location
Nashville
Firus summed up exxactly how I build my team. Like he said, there are pokemon that I like but realize that they wouldn't be good since they have limited moves and or stats. I seem to (unintensionally) build my team around defense and special attack. I don't mean to but it just so happens that few pokemon that I like have a high HP, Speed, Attack base stat. I still haven't completed my team in diamond, but I do (again) have Pokemon with high Special Attack and defense stats.
 

RedPeppers

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
672
Location
"La La Land"
Wow I never realized how few people actually played competitely here.... Not gonna list the process, but I have a way different approach to making competitive teams than my fun one.
 

SkylerOcon

Tiny Dancer
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
5,216
Location
ATX
You dare degrade me to playing Diamond and Pearl? You should feel shamed for playing those sorry excuses for games.
 

SkylerOcon

Tiny Dancer
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
5,216
Location
ATX
If you have an interest of tracking me down in real life and facing my R/B/Y, G/S/C, or R/S/E Jigglypuff teams, go right ahead.

Just don't expect me to play D/P.
 

RedPeppers

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
672
Location
"La La Land"
Might I suggest specifying then! I'll play your jiggly team by the appropriate generations ruleset anytime. Just let me make a team, and we'll set a time for it.
 

Firus

You know what? I am good.
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 7, 2008
Messages
7,681
NNID
OctagonalWalnut
3DS FC
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Meh.

My single Shaymin could own both of your teams. Well, it'd be evenly matched with the Jigglypuffs, assuming they don't double team it.

Even if all else fails, I'll just teach it Shoop Da Whoop. No biggie.
 

ss118

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
3,127
Location
Savannah, Georgia
I was wondering where 9 posts came from overnight. ._."

Please keep the discussion on-topic. I didn't make this to get closed on day 2.
 

Mewter

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
3,609
I was wondering where 9 posts came from overnight. ._."

Please keep the discussion on-topic. I didn't make this to get closed on day 2.
Sigh... . Ready?
THERE ARE RARELY MODS HERE! Spam threads are never closed! :laugh: And as fasr as I'm concerned, a post isn't spam anyways if it has an ounce of on-topic material in it.
On Topic:
Nice team thread about the mindset of team building.

PS:
We really need a representative mod. The only two we have got are always wandering around.
 

0RLY

A great conversation filler at bars and parties
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
2,681
Location
Temple University, Philadelphia
I guess the community can't just nominate a mod just because we don't have enough...

...anyways, I consider myself very adept at team building. I can take a LOT of options into consideration. Things to avoid, game winning strategies, stuff like that. Man, talking about this reminds me about smash in SOOO many ways!
 

Bowser King

Have It Your Way
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,737
Location
Ontario, Canada
Sigh... . Ready?
THERE ARE RARELY MODS HERE! Spam threads are never closed! :laugh: And as fasr as I'm concerned, a post isn't spam anyways if it has an ounce of on-topic material in it.
On Topic:
Nice team thread about the mindset of team building.

PS:
We really need a representative mod. The only two we have got are always wandering around.
Agreed, there aren't very many mods who visit. As for the ounce thing, I disagree. I heard we got a warning and if it contiunes were endangering threads like the CPS, 5th Gen, OPT and other threads we disscuss in.
 

The9litch

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 20, 2007
Messages
165
Location
Newark, NJ
My mindset on team building.....HMMMMM.

I look at the leading team on shoddy and steal it =]. lol, jk but I've played many people who have done that. Now, on to serious business.

Step 1: Inspiration (or w/e you want to call it)

Either because you're bored of your old team, or you want to try something new/more effective, theres always a reason to build a new team, because if there wasn't I doubt you would sit there for such a long time and undergo such a burden for no reason.

Step 2: Visualization

Of course you must think of what the basic set up for your team will be, ie stall, offense, BP etc...

Step 3: Use yourself as reference

In my opinion a team you're using should at least be like by yourself. I try to not use pokemon i dislike, and try not base your whole team on effectiveness. The reason I say this is because you may have a really good team, but if you don't enjoy it, you will bore yourself very fast and end right back up on the drawing board.

Step 4: The Assembly line (Second hardest Part)

After all the thinking, it's time to dive into action...whip out your pens and pads and start sketching out the lineup. This gets annoying because of all the damage calcs, the EV spreads, the battle for the lead, figuring out counters, sweepers, gayness like breloom, togekiss and Woboffet -_-, and a bunch of other things.

Step 5: Testing

After spending your time on this thing, we might as well put it to use right? Use shoddy to test your team before actually pulling through in the game card (if you were planning to)

Step 6: Editing

After many trials, you'll realize there may be some flaws or some things that need tweaking in your team..You might want to work that out and go back to testing.

Step 7: More testing >.<

Self Explanatory

Step 8: you guessed it MORE EDITING!!!

WARNING: STEP 5 AND 6 CAN GO ON FOR A VERY LONG TIME BEFORE YOU ARE HAPPY WITH YOUR TEAM!!!

Step 8: Getting the pokes (start to cry now)

Yes..the really gay part, well only if you're actually building this team legitimately and not pokesaving it. this includes trading,soft reseting, negotiating, breeding, breeding, breeding and more ****ing breeding (this is the part you cry). After the days, weeks, and months of breeding and stuff and getting all your pokes, you are ready for step 9.

Step 9: EV Training

Well many people just make others do it for a prize, but if you're doing it yourself...YOU'RE IN FOR SOME HELL. Without an AR this can get pretty annoying, (even with one you will be extremely bored)so do yourself a favor and get one before you do this. and try not to fall asleep as you do it because your battery dies while you had like two more pokes to kill and you wake up on the morning wanting to throw the DS at the wall (speaking from experience here folks)

Step 10: Rejoicing

You've made your team. YAY, WOOT WOOT, lol...Now go out and wreck face with that sucker =P...Well there's always the alternate reality, the one when you get constantly ***** and have to start this whole process over again, If thats the case then let Arceus be with you.

Ok, Haven't posted in yrs so i overdid myself. Never posted this long EVER on this site and I guess I was bored lol. Hopefully someone will read through it all and get something out of it.

Hopefully I helped (did not read previous posts so I really don't know what was or was not said, so i'm sorry if I wasted your time)
 

d34thiseternal

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
11
I do not experience the inspiration side as heavily as anyone else that I know. What I do is In make use of the pokemon move and weakness app, and write down my proposed team, check it for weaknesses, if there are none, I work to get the team. However, I REFUSE to use legends. Then, after the pokemon are caught, traded, or bred, I teach them moves to trump their types, than moves to fall into the niche I want them in. For example, Milotic as the defensive base; recover is my best friend. Everyone I play has a very difficult time defeating him just on the premise that he takes forever to ko.
This works for me, but the patience required is astronomical.
 
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