The Method Behind The Madness: Why Dark Pit's Design makes Sense

[Y2Kay]

I know a lot of people are annoyed by Dark Pit's design for Super Smash Bros. for Wii U / 3DS. I was a little annoyed by his lack of differences and still kinda am now, but after thinking carefully about Dark Pit's source material and the aspects of Kid Icarus: Uprising, it makes some sense, so hear me out. Dark Pit is a basically a clone of pit in the sense that physically they're are identical. Their superficial aesthetics and their personalities are the only thing that changes between them. They should be identical in size, weight, and speed (explaining why he isn't a slow but heavy hitter clone like Ganon). It is implied by KI : U and Palutena's Guidance that they're are evenly matched in this kind of aspect. The only thing that really doesn't remain constant between the two are their weapons. Which explains why their only main difference are the bow and the Arm. This doesn't really mean that Pittoo's design is great per se, but taking this into account makes Sakurai's design appear more rational. Hey, it's a flawed theory, but it's good food for thought.

(I really hope this is in the right thread, I'd hate to see my first post to be wrong......)

 

[Tito Maas]

They still could've done things to make him different. For instance, I would've given Pit his arrow animation from Brawl. Dark Pit didn't originate from the original Kid Icarus games, so it wouldn't make much sense to have him with that 8-Bit animation. And while it was just an update to take it away from Pit in Smash 4, it wasn't a move that had to be made. Give Pit his Brawl arrows and animation, give Dark Pit the Palutena Bow arrows and animation in Smash 4.

Another thing is that I don't understand why Dark Pit has "worse" arrows than Pit. What about his character makes him a worse archer? I would have liked to see his arrows be different, but there's no reason for them to be worse.

 

[Wintropy]

Pretty much it, yeah. Sakurai said he didn't think it was "right" for Pittoo to wield the Three Sacred Treasures in his Final Smash, so he changed it to the Dark Pit Staff.

@ Tito Maas , it isn't that he's an inferior archer, it's that the weapon works differently. It isn't how the Silver Bow works in Uprising, but balance is balance.

 

[Y2Kay]

Did some research, it turns out that the Silver Bow has better homing than the Palutena Bow AND does less damage in KI: U. I just can't understand Sakurai........

 

[Tito Maas]

Pretty much it, yeah. Sakurai said he didn't think it was "right" for Pittoo to wield the Three Sacred Treasures in his Final Smash, so he changed it to the Dark Pit Staff.

@ Tito Maas , it isn't that he's an inferior archer, it's that the weapon works differently. It isn't how the Silver Bow works in Uprising, but balance is balance.

Right, but why does his arrow have to be worse? Lucas and Ness both have a PK Fire that works differently rather than one being straight up inferior to the other. Same with Falco and Fox's Shine or Link and Toon Link's everything. Dark Pit's arrows have not one situational advantage over Pit's and that makes his straight up worse in every aspect

 

[Wintropy]

Right, but why does his arrow have to be worse? Lucas and Ness both have a PK Fire that works differently rather than one being straight up inferior to the other. Same with Falco and Fox's Shine or Link and Toon Link's everything. Dark Pit's arrows have not one situational advantage over Pit's and that makes his straight up worse in every aspect

Oh, in that sense, I don't know.

It'd be decent if the arrows had some degree of control, even if it's weaker than Pit's to compensate for the stronger damage output, but I agree, I can't think of why it'd be considered a finer option than Pit's.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Did some research, it turns out that the Silver Bow has better homing than the Palutena Bow AND does less damage in KI: U. I just can't understand Sakurai........

That's due to the arrows being different. In Uprising, Silver Bow shoots out blue arrows. For some reason, the arrows are from the Darkness Bow.

 

[LancerStaff]

Sakurai probably figured giving Dark Pit something like the the Guiding Bow custom (weaker but turns sharper much like the Silver Bow in comparison to the Palutena Bow) might be overpowering and settled on giving him the opposite, which ended up being more like the Darkness Bow.

I imagine that they intentionally undershot the three clones to preserve balance. Lucina cannot be better then Marth by design, and Doc is, well... You get the idea.

Right, but why does his arrow have to be worse? Lucas and Ness both have a PK Fire that works differently rather than one being straight up inferior to the other. Same with Falco and Fox's Shine or Link and Toon Link's everything. Dark Pit's arrows have not one situational advantage over Pit's and that makes his straight up worse in every aspect

Nothing that can't be fixed though. They're clearly trying something with the minor % tweak... Most characters with real buffs had things spread out, like Marth, Ike, Robin, and MK. Then the ones with heavy nerfs have been backpedaled, Greninja and Diddy, but outside of that it's been light and gradual.

But most clone/original relationships are incredibly lopsided. Even outside the trio you have characters like Fox and Marth where they have everything that matters and then Falco and Roy have nothing of merit, especially in comparison to the originals. Lucas was an especially extreme case until they buffed the heck out of him, and honestly he's still largely inferior to Ness.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Besides the arrows, tilts, and arms, there's the updates that are different to.


1.0.6

•No longer clips through sloped terrain while using ledge attack as someone else grabs the ledge.

1.1.0

Buff.png Jab's rapid finisher hitbox size (5.0u → 6.0u).
Notice.png Jab's rapid Finisher Z-axis displacement (9.0u → 8.5u).
Buff.png Palutena's Arrow has 3 less frames of ending lag.


Silver Bow improved; the damage has slightly increased: 3.8 → 4.3, uncharged arrow's speed increased slightly (faster than Pit's now) and all variations have decreased endlag by 3 frames.

 

[Sensane]

Please pass the salt because I'm going to say something very very insane:
























Dark Pit is a much better KI rep than anyone other than Pit and Palutena!

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Please pass the salt because I'm going to say something very very insane:
























Dark Pit is a much better KI rep than anyone other than Pit and Palutena!

Viridi. Also, no video or something you have is showing.

 

[Y2Kay]

Viridi. Also, no video or something you have is showing.

there wasn't a video, he just made a ridiculously long space between his sentences. he should've just used the spoiler tab

 

[TMNTSSB4]

there wasn't a video, he just made a ridiculously long space between his sentences. he should've just used the spoiler tab

Yeah, wish he had a valid reason to what he said to

 

[Sensane]

1. I don't know how to use the spoiler tab. I know, I'm stupid, but whatever.
2. I say this because Dark Pit had more of a plot relevance in KIU than Magnus or Phosphora. While Magnus was in a couple chapters and had relevance there (which even so he was just shoehorned in for one last boss fight near the end of the game), but Phosphora literally showed up for one boss fight and never appeared for the rest of the game. Sure, she held on to the Lightning Chariot, but even then, Dark Pit still ended up using it to enter the Chaos Dimension. I didn't say this before because I wanted to see how people would react first, then I would explain (I know that's wierd, but whatever).
3. Whoops, forgot about Viridi; guess there's a better option than DP XP.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

1. I don't know how to use the spoiler tab. I know, I'm stupid, but whatever.
2. I say this because Dark Pit had more of a plot relevance in KIU than Magnus or Phosphora. While Magnus was in a couple chapters and had relevance there (which even so he was just shoehorned in for one last boss fight near the end of the game), but Phosphora literally showed up for one boss fight and never appeared for the rest of the game. Sure, she held on to the Lightning Chariot, but even then, Dark Pit still ended up using it to enter the Chaos Dimension. I didn't say this before because I wanted to see how people would react first, then I would explain (I know that's wierd, but whatever).
3. Whoops, forgot about Viridi; guess there's a better option than DP XP.

1. We don't blame you.
2. Magnus is like that character who's not that important, but he is used to begin a bigger chapter in Pit's journey.
3. Viridi should've been in the game by now...she had better character development than everyone and was equal to Pit's.

 

[Tito Maas]

Dark Pit is not more relevant than Magnus in KIU.

 

[Sneak Sneaks]

Actually darkness bow's arrows are very accurate, in uprising they where really good when shoot close but they had very few homing.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Dark Pit is not more relevant than Magnus in KIU.

And Viridi's more relevant than the both of them. Equal to Palutena's relevancy