Social The mayor of smashville: Villager discussion

Mark The Page

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To rehash what I've said in the Isabelle thread and to update what I've said here... I've changed my mind on Isabelle VS Villager.

Isabelle lacks the range that makes Villager's frame-3 n-air so threatening, and of course the gyroid. Even though everything else is better, I think those two changes are what will make Villager superior for high-level play. The n-air's vertical range is just that important. Sure, Villager's whole moveset is all over the place, but it really is that ultra-reliable n-air that ties everything together and fills all of those gaps. Meanwhile Isabelle lacks such a fast out to opponents who have gotten in her face, because her n-air isn't going to reliably hit opponents under her.

This board is super dead, but I've just posted another guide, this time on the new jab. I've done a lot of testing and I'd like to share what I've learned.
 

yata9arasu

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To rehash what I've said in the Isabelle thread and to update what I've said here... I've changed my mind on Isabelle VS Villager.

Isabelle lacks the range that makes Villager's frame-3 n-air so threatening, and of course the gyroid. Even though everything else is better, I think those two changes are what will make Villager superior for high-level play. The n-air's vertical range is just that important. Sure, Villager's whole moveset is all over the place, but it really is that ultra-reliable n-air that ties everything together and fills all of those gaps. Meanwhile Isabelle lacks such a fast out to opponents who have gotten in her face, because her n-air isn't going to reliably hit opponents under her.

This board is super dead, but I've just posted another guide, this time on the new jab. I've done a lot of testing and I'd like to share what I've learned.
I have to agree, again. After playing them for weeks I think Villager is better even with all the smaller nerfs. Incredible really. She misses rocket a bunch and her range is just horrible. She can't hit platforms with uptilt or usmash. Her jab is... >_> Too much lag on fishing rod. I've had better results with villager and his nair is beautiful. The characters need a lot work. I doubt much, if anything, will be adjusted in 2.0 but it would be nice. By far it's the range complaint, she can't contest certain angles or pressure in certain way and just gets rushed down without the range.
 
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RAzul

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I agree with everything you've said. As a villager main in Smash 4 I'm finding it really difficult to deal with all of the minor nerfs villager got. The biggest issue that you brought up and the one I feared the most when I saw the engine was the accelerated knockback. You can't follow up on anything because he is still so very slow. Even being aggressive with edge guarding hasn't helped much. Everything kills later. More lag on dair, tree coming up doesn't kill like it used to, everyone survives longer because the moves are doing less and no way to confirm into axe. Villager had one of the best jabs and they changed it. Pointless nerf to his recovery, while giving Inkling the best one in the game easily. Uptilt is a dead move because it doesn't hit where it used to and it doesn't kill even when fresh. As someone that competed with him and did well in my region this is just beyond painful. Hopefully I can find some tech and get him somewhere, but overall it is just so much work for barely any reward.

There will probably be adjustments to his damage output in the future which could make him viable enough. We'll see. Thank you guys for your posts. I've been following these forums for a long time and have been disappointed with the lack of posts for villager since the game has come out. At least Samus looks decent so far. XD
My god dude......this was all the feelings I had inside about Villager that I couldn’t share with anyone else cuz they just didn’t GET it or don’t play Villy. Thank you so much. I knew they were off. I too was a Villager main in smash 4 (got too 32 in doubles at the First Smash Con) and am not in love with this version of him.
 
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I've been using Villager for the past week and wow is this character fun. It's so satisfying to hit the other player with the bowling ball off the ledge and getting stocks from unsuspecting tree victims feels incredible. It's a shame they're so overshadowed by Isabelle; I've been looking for Ultimate Villager guides everywhere and can't find any that are decent.
 

Reila

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Isabelle is a new fighter so it is natural that people focus on her (even if she isn't as good as Villager). If you are just starting playing Villager, check Smash 4 Villager videos first, maybe check the Villager forum (there is an user that post stuff on Villager there every now and then) and you could also ask for tips on r/CrazyHand (reddit).
 
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Isabelle is a new fighter so it is natural that people focus on her (even if she isn't as good as Villager). If you are just starting playing Villager, check Smash 4 Villager videos first, maybe check the Villager forum (there is an user that post stuff on Villager there every now and then) and you could also ask for tips on r/CrazyHand (reddit).
 

Miracle Outlaw

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I've been using Villager for the past week and wow is this character fun. It's so satisfying to hit the other player with the bowling ball off the ledge and getting stocks from unsuspecting tree victims feels incredible. It's a shame they're so overshadowed by Isabelle; I've been looking for Ultimate Villager guides everywhere and can't find any that are decent.
That'll happen because the game is still pretty young and there's a new character that is very similar. There are Villy players that can help you. Idk about a video guide. But there's always the Villager Discord! Give it a look! There's Plenty of people who can help!
 

Mark The Page

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I've gone back to Smash 4 again and WOW. I don't know how I ever played that game. Ultimate makes Smash 4 feel like Brawl. It's also given me a new perspective on Villager--back then, he had no responses to opponents who'd gotten in close. Now he's got a stronger n-air, stronger and instant dash attack, faster f-tilt, more vertical range on the slingshot's melee hitbox, and pivot cancels. Landing these attacks in Smash 4 didn't even guarantee that the opponent would be pushed far enough away to return to long-range strategies.

At the transition, I hated all of these stronger base knockbacks for ruining gyroid combos. But now I've noticed why I've gotten so much better with Villager in the past few months: we have so many new tools to use at close-range, and while they don't combo as well, when they aren't stringing together they're guaranteeing that the opponent gets knocked far away and you can spawn another gyroid.

And for the gyroid itself, maybe the combos lost weren't so valuable after all. The gyroid + slingshot walls are now harder to navigate, and if the opponent airdodges or goes high, you can just stand there and wait until it's time to punish.

Basically, we lost combo power, but our hits are MUCH easier to land now, and Villager is a very competent melee fighter once you master the shorthops, pivots, and instant dashes, plus a bit of patience. Now I'm so used to his much more aggressive Ultimate playstyle that I can hardly control him back in Smash 4. Like two totally different characters.
 

MERPIS

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What’s everyone’s opinions on making slingshots transcendant? It would single handedly make his camping much better and also loosen up his matchup against swordies. Plus this is the only big buff I can imagine that wouldnt completely break him
 

Mark The Page

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Thanks, Sakurai. This is exactly what Villager needed: even LESS shield pressure, and no buffs. The gyroid and slingshot already had almost no shield damage--what even is there to nerf?

What’s everyone’s opinions on making slingshots transcendant? It would single handedly make his camping much better and also loosen up his matchup against swordies. Plus this is the only big buff I can imagine that wouldnt completely break him
Well, they could do this anyway. The way the slingshot is now, it's very useful for deflecting opposing projectiles. And because the slingshot deals less damage than those projectiles and takes less effort to use, we're winning that transaction.
 
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