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Sonic can fit the Dudley role and Bowser, as a natural punisher, is similar to a grappler, like Zangief. Dudley could also fit with characters like C. Falcon and possibly Little Mac, depending on your playstyle. For the latter, I'd reccomend other heavyweights, like DK and Ganondorf to possibly fit your Zangief needs.
It seems that you already found the characters that fit the playstyle you generally like playing. Both Palutena and Bowser could fit the roles of Zangief as they both have a great set of throws, have a lot of raw power, and are less combo heavy than the majority of the cast.
from the sounds of things I think sonic would suit you. he is very good at unpredictable rushdown and he does have a little bit of a control element. also if you're willing to expand from your list I would suggest giving greninja and shiek a try. I can help with secondaries once you have decided on your main. hope this helped
as one of them, but other than that I can't really decide on which ones to use. Some other characters I've been enjoying are , though I really struggle to land kill moves with Luigi and Jiggs.
You seem to have a preference towards heavy characters -Hi, nooby scrublord here. Trying to actually get decent at the game this time, but I have trouble even choosing mains. I have already decided that I am going to have
How many characters is ideal for an inexperienced player to try to get good with? Is it too early to know which characters would cover Mewtwo's weaknesses? And how steep are the learning curves for these characters?
. and a bit of , they're not really steep. You can be competent with them as long as you know what you're doing. is a little steep, as you need to learn how to land Rest consistently to be good with her.
any recommendations?Thanks, I'll have a look around and continue to experiment with what feels best for me.You seem to have a preference towards heavy characters -
As someone who plays
Most people start with 2-3 characters, so you can fall back to another character in case your main has a bad match-up. As to which character can cover Mewtwo's weaknesses, try asking in the Mewtwo boards.
Not so sure on the non-energy projectile since Ness's PK Magnet (Down B) isn't one of his most practical moves. If Greninja's feeling too stiff for you I suggestHi everyone! so i am looking for a new secondary! my main is zero suit samus, and my secondary was zelda,but i find it hard to win with her, and i find her play style a bit restricting, so im switching! my friend mains ness, and i find it hard to approach him with zsuit, as i normally use the stun gun to approach, but he can heal with it, so i try not to use it as much, leaving me right where he needs me- at mid range, unable to get inside. We are extremely close in skill, but i would love a secondary, with a non-energy projectile who is fast and can zone break. I have tried greninja, but he feels a little too stiff, so he is one of my prospects right now. any suggestions? Thanks! msg me if you would like to do some 1v1's i play zsuit, zelda, ganondorf, and i am currently attempting greninja
or . Both of these characters have the criteria you're looking for and happen to be very good in this game. Just be careful when using them because Fox's recovery can be predictable and Sheik has a very hard time killing someone unless you gimp them real hard.2 secondaries for Sonic hm. From the list you made I suggest
and . Pikachu plays similarly to Sonic in that he can zone break and run away when he has the chance but has a projectile and versatile recovery to make up for it. Rosalina on the other hand can help you with any projectile users you might have trouble with as Sonic thanks to her Gravitational Pull (Down B). For characters not on your list I suggest or . Since you like Sheik you should be able to like her the same way with Pikachu. As for Captain Falcon he just seems like another fast powerful character you could use together with Sonic.Woah that's a lot of mains. You got floaty characters, speedy characters, heavy characters, combo characters, and jack of all trades. If you want to round out with more projectile/defensive based characters besides your Duck Hunt and Pac Man (correct me if the latter isn't defensive), thenI might need a recomindations for more mains
Heres who i got so far
is a safe bet. He's fairly simple to use and shouldn't strain yourself much when you have this many characters to use already.
So link is the only one left to main then.Not so sure on the non-energy projectile since Ness's PK Magnet (Down B) isn't one of his most practical moves. If Greninja's feeling too stiff for you I suggest
2 secondaries for Sonic hm. From the list you made I suggest
Woah that's a lot of mains. You got floaty characters, speedy characters, heavy characters, combo characters, and jack of all trades. If you want to round out with more projectile/defensive based characters besides your Duck Hunt and Pac Man (correct me if the latter isn't defensive), then
Thank you! I think I decide to run Sonic as my main and Rosalina, Falcon, and Shulk as my secondaries.(Shulk was recomended in the sonic thread to me. Thanks though with helping me!Not so sure on the non-energy projectile since Ness's PK Magnet (Down B) isn't one of his most practical moves. If Greninja's feeling too stiff for you I suggest
2 secondaries for Sonic hm. From the list you made I suggest
Woah that's a lot of mains. You got floaty characters, speedy characters, heavy characters, combo characters, and jack of all trades. If you want to round out with more projectile/defensive based characters besides your Duck Hunt and Pac Man (correct me if the latter isn't defensive), then
Aphrenics
Your username fits your post so
perfectly.The concepts of Sm4sh are still the same as previous games: get your opponent off the stage and send them flying from one of the blast zones to achieve the KO. The differences in the game were added to ledge mechanics: you can no longer "hog the ledge" like you could in Melee or Brawl, but it is now possible to "steal the ledge" (or "ledgetrump") someone hanging on it. Additionally, regrabbing the ledge again does not restore invincibility unless you take damage and are forced to grab it again.
fits the ball perfectly, but if you don't like her Sheik is in your list and fits this description too.
How about Pit? Marth (and Lucina by extension because their frame data is the same) lost his speed and range since Melee. Pit has fast and long-ranged aerials, good mobility, a great projectile, and a strong combo game. Only problems are that he has trouble getting KOs and approaching isn't really his thing, which is to say he's only decent at them.
Your idea of Cammy is pretty much correct, although the priority of her moves is actually not that good, which is why she lives for the knockdown. It's interesting that you mention those two characters, because they are two characters I was looking at, but they seem very hard to control. The two things I'm concerned about are: Are those characters particularly good? I ask not because I want to play top tier, but because I'm actually really used to playing pretty sub par characters, and actually prefer playing underrepresented characters. Mostly I just hate mirror matches. Also, I've read that Sheik has some problems securing the KO without gimping pretty hard. This is mostly only a problem for me because I'm still uncomfortable with taking the fight off the ledge. How true is this, and how does she go about getting the KO? ZSS I know how to KO with, but hit confirming into up special is kinda Tonka tough for me.The concepts of Sm4sh are still the same as previous games: get your opponent off the stage and send them flying from one of the blast zones to achieve the KO. The differences in the game were added to ledge mechanics: you can no longer "hog the ledge" like you could in Melee or Brawl, but it is now possible to "steal the ledge" (or "ledgetrump") someone hanging on it. Additionally, regrabbing the ledge again does not restore invincibility unless you take damage and are forced to grab it again.
Shields have also received significant changes. Dropping the shield without being hit has 7 frames of dropping it. It is also significantly easier to break shields now, as many attacks deal large amounts of shield damage. On the other hand, shields regenerate much faster.
I'm not a competitive SF player, though I'm familiar with the characters. My idea of Cammy might not be accurate so let me know if I got something wrong: my general conception of Cammy is great movement options, great priority in her moves, and rapid assaults of attacks. Is this correct? If not, could you describe what you're looking for? Give me the general gameplan that you like to have in characters.
If I'm correct,
Pit is someone I didn't really look at much. Maybe I'll try him out for a bit too. Thanks for the suggestion!
Marth's speed is now pretty average, and his range is still pretty good but not great like it was. His KO power is pretty good though. If you want something more specific I'd check the Marth forums. As far as overall placement goes, people tend to put the two real low.
Ah, okay. Yeah, both are not easy to control, but if you want movement options and rapid assaults of attacks, both Sheik and ZSS are good at that.
, she has a tough time getting the KO - more than ever now that they nerfed her Back air with the new patch. She now needs to secure the KO offstage for sure, though she can somewhat mitigate herself going offstage since she has Needles and Burst Grenades to control space offstage. She goes about getting the KO with Bouncing Fish (Down-B), U-smash (the tip of her hands are very powerful), or offstage with Back air (which got nerfed). The first hit of her Vanish UpB is also very strong, though this takes a read. Up-air can KO at high percents off the top blast zone, but that's if you're at high percent yourself (this game has rage, present in Tekken, which increases Knock back in moves if you're at high damage). can KO offstage or onstage, her options are varied and she can carry the opponent either sideways or up towards the top blast zone, or simply end them right then and there. Flip Jump can hit opponents automatically once you are on top of them, she'll bury them in the ground making it easier to connect the UpB. This works offstage for spiking the opponent downwards too. Her Paralyzer neutral-B and Down-smash help trap her opponent and set up these opportunities for her. Her other KO moves are Back air and Forward smash. is on your list. He's by no means a bad character, but did receive significant end lag to his moveset in this game which made some former players quit him or keep him as a secondary instead. Lucario's gets Aura, which is a magnified version of the Rage mechanic: the more at a disadvantage he is, the more damage and knockback his moves deal. Also applies with stock disadvantages. He attacks with Aura, the blue fire in his moves, which gets bigger the more damage he has (meaning his range also increases with more damage). He does require commitment though: his attacks have significant startup and notable ending lag, but are otherwise powerful and disjointed with the flame at the end of his moves.. His neutral game is a tad slow, but he has good mobility and very high jumps that let him chase opponents in a lot of directions. isn't represented too much but everyone agrees he is solid.. Their differences are in knockback, their arrow projectiles, and their SideB arm attacks. basically is an easier Marth, she doesn't require to align the tip of her sword to get the most out of her. in the end is harder to use but better than her though. are top tiers with great movement, but tough to use and represented a lot. are mid tiers who aren't represented too much, but still have solid movement while having good KO power. are not represented a whole lot either and have multiple jumps to leave you at ease if you find yourself offstage. got gutted in this game with lag to their moves, though their mobility itself is still good.
Thank you very much for the detailed reply! I'm actually pretty pleased with this. I'm a Pokemon guy myself, and was hoping one of the Pokemon would fit the bill. Lucario was a character I consistently found myself falling back to (but still not winning with) if I got frustrated with losing as the other characters I was choosing. He was always the last stop on the salt train, you could say. I may have just answered my own question there, because it's now that I realize that even though I wasn't winning with him, I typically enjoyed playing him the most which is why I always kind of "defaulted" to Lucario.Ah, okay. Yeah, both are not easy to control, but if you want movement options and rapid assaults of attacks, both Sheik and ZSS are good at that.
You're right about Sheik
Zero Suit
Both Sheik and Zero Suit are top tier characters, a majority of the smashers here will agree with me on that. They are tough to use, but their reward is well worth it. This also means that Zero Suit and Sheik are well represented by a lot of players, so if that's not what you're looking for, then read on.
If you're looking for a more unrepresented character that can still win you games,
If you would prefer someone who has better movement but is still under-represented, I suggest looking at
I suggest checking out the character boards for these two.
His multiple jumps means he can safely take to the skies if you feel overwhelmed onstage, and also makes recovering pretty much guaranteed especially with an Up-B that covers a lot of distance. So if you're not comfortable with being offstage yet, his multiple jumps and long recovery should leave you at ease. He gets disjointed range with his dual swords, which is always a good thing to have so he can keep safe distance from his opponent in the melee.
By extension, if you get comfortable with Pit, you shouldn't have much trouble switching between him and
Marth wasn't changed much in terms of moveset, but numerically he was gutted: he can not auto cancel his moves freely like he used to before, his neutral game (ie, "A" moves or standard moves) has notable lag now in a lot of his moves, his jab deals little knockback to make it worth using, and his throw game is among the worst now.
They do have good movement, however, among the fastest dashing and walking speeds in the game, and their range is still disjointed. They just don't allow for a lot of error, since the ending lag in their moves leaves them very exposed.
tl:dr,
IMO, if you want unrepresented characters with good mobility options that will still let you win, I suggest Lucario, Greninja, or the Pits.
No, you are definitely right, I've realized this as well. Diddy Kong is a really good character and you have every right to be confused. I, personally, can't answer your question, but if it means anything, my best friend mains Diddy Kong and he's really good! I just played him yesterday, and from what I can tell, they didn't nerf him, but don't take my word for it. You might want to ask one of the more experienced players on this forum!
ZxFlashFreezexZ
, welcome to Smashboards! Be wary of double posts. Whenever you need to add content to a previous post use the edit button.
They nerfed him in the most recent patch. Probably not gutted I don't know for sure how badly due to none of my friends playing diddy but people tend to react very harshly to nerfs of any kind.
Sonic annoys everyone.Yoshi's become stale for me, i seem to like characters who are decently fast, kind of defensive and have alot of options, but not sonic. he annoys the crap out of me. i've recently been enjoying
thanks!
K thanks!Hey @
If you're looking for a fast character and someone other than Yoshi, C. Falcon is the way to go.Yoshi's become stale for me, i seem to like characters who are decently fast, kind of defensive and have alot of options, but not sonic. he annoys the crap out of me. i've recently been enjoying
thanks!
Captain Falcon is definitely the way to go!
? I've been wanting to mix up my game and learn someone equally fast and annoying who has similarly great combo potential. I like a lot for this (she is incredibly underrated and has great aerial strings), but not fast enough for me. I've been thinking , , or . Maybe ?Hey dude, i suggest you try either zero suit samus or greninja. grenija is faster, but they both have amazing mobility, and good kill and combo potential. i thought greninja was so so until a few days ago when i decided to secondary him (i play zsuit) greninja has awesome combos, awesomely fun gimping recovery, and good kills with Fair. all of his smashes, and shadow sneak. tip: when someone tries to edgeguard you, right before they come at you, shadow sneak and reverse kick them to their death! zero suit has so many recovery options its ridiculous, awesome stun combos and follow ups, and Bair, dflip kick, and up B all kill early (also down throw into Uair Uair Up B is a death combo that can kill from practically zero depending on the stage. can be extended on platforms like on battlefield.)Who is a good complimentary secondary to
I would try Captain Falcon. He has a fast playstyle like Sonic and imo, deals with his weaknesses well. Also maybe Rosalina if you have problems with projectilesWho is a good complimentary secondary to
