The Louisiana Thread: Flarefox Forever - We are alive.

[XKCP]

That's cool and all but getting 2 stocked in Brawl in both games isn't "pretty close." Even in Melee that wouldn't be pretty close.

That whole post reads as kinda trolly though.

We've never met before.

 

[Sudai]

I haven't met a lot of people.

 

[artofskjet]

I think I've officially moved on from playing the entire cast lol

My tourney official characters will be in Singles

In Dubs

This is a thousand times better than playing as just about every character.

Edit : I would also like to hear opinions on my overall play from people who played me in friendlies/tourney.


I mostly made this decision from talks with various players who noticed I had this obsession and my loss to @Sneakh in a set I had a chance to win if I wasn't stubborn and continued to play Mewtwo ( who I haven't played all day ) after he clearly made the appropriate adjustments near the end of Game 1.

 

[TC123]

You should not try to main 5 characters but instead focus on 1 character and work to develop that character so that instead of 5 mediocre mains you can alternate between and lose with, you have 1 solid main you can win with. Not saying your mediocre or anything just general advice, I don't believe I have ever played you.

 

[iceman48]

If you're good with those 5 characters then I would continue to play them and use them situationally. They're all pretty good (I don't know about Lucario). If you're not good with those 5 characters then I would choose one and become a beast with it, learn the matchups, learn the spacing, then maybe start learning another. I would advise against playing Marf in both. This is all my opinion, of course.

 

[Guzzler Guzzler]

My mains:

Secondaries:

 

[artofskjet]

You should not try to main 5 characters but instead focus on 1 character and work to develop that character so that instead of 5 mediocre mains you can alternate between and lose with, you have 1 solid main you can win with. Not saying your mediocre or anything just general advice, I don't believe I have ever played you.

Yeah I know but just playing Marth in both Melee and PM isn't satisfying enough for me. I have the urge to play multiple characters for some reason

If you're good with those 5 characters then I would continue to play them and use them situationally. They're all pretty good (I don't know about Lucario). If you're not good with those 5 characters then I would choose one and become a beast with it, learn the matchups, learn the spacing, then maybe start learning another. I would advise against playing Marf in both. This is all my opinion, of course.

Marth is my original main so I pretty much have him down. I want to practice a lot more before I make anymore mistakes like in those sets against JSalt and Sneak. Against JSalt I was mostly making simple and dumb input errors like dair from the ledge instead of Nair which I lost two stocks to. Lol but that was me more of not warmed up because I had to wait like an hour before I actually played him

Edit : Lucario is a pretty good character but has a bad neutral game but his combo game ( if you know the character well enough ) is insane

 

[iceman48]

After losing a tourney match:
Sudai: I was gonna tell you something to make you feel better, but I forgot.
Icemann: You forgot to tell me or you forgot what you were gonna say?
Sudai: I don't know. Both?

 

[TC123]

There's nothing wrong with playing around with multiple characters, in fact it helps you learn a bit about their strengths and weaknesses. But as far as truly studying and trying to learn a character, there should really only be one until you've been playing competitively for quite a long time. And not trying to sound offensive, but I guarantee you there is a lot more to learn about Marth than what you think if you feel you already have him pretty much down.

 

[artofskjet]

There's nothing wrong with playing around with multiple characters, in fact it helps you learn a bit about their strengths and weaknesses. But as far as truly studying and trying to learn a character, there should really only be one until you've been playing competitively for quite a long time. And not trying to sound offensive, but I guarantee you there is a lot more to learn about Marth than what you think if you feel you already have him pretty much down.

I've been maining Marth and Studying his different Matchups since January. I don't know everything but I know a lot. My problem is my experience with different Matchups. It may not seem like it but I have lots of knowledge of Marth.

 

[heyitshoward]

I now have a smashboards account.

Edit: Also sounds like you think you know more than you actually do and your practice doesn't apply your knowledge properly if you're making input errors.

 

[Magi_]

good first post

 

[heyitshoward]

i'm off to a good start boys

 

[Guzzler Guzzler]

skjet confirmed fraud

 

[TC123]

January is when I started playing competitively. Literally never touched sheik once until maybe a month after that. I have almost never gone any character other than sheik in a tournament match, and the times I have were because I either a. didn't care or b. was just trolling. The reason why I don't try to seriously learn other characters at this point in time is because it would detract from my progress with sheik. At godlike this weekend I placed 4th in melee singles (behind lee, dope, and avery) and 7th in pm singles (behind who cares). But I also know that compared to the really good sheik players, I know very little about sheik as a character in terms of spacing, combo game, neutral game, etc. Watching top players play sheik and playing people like Lee Martin in sheik dittos always reminds me of how much more I have to learn. So until you can even take sets off of the top players in our own state, don't think there isn't a significant amount that you have left to learn. And if your having problems with different matchups then you don't know nearly enough about marth.

 

[artofskjet]

I now have a smashboards account.

Edit: Also sounds like you think you know more than you actually do and your practice doesn't apply your knowledge properly if you're making input errors.

Knowledge has nothing to do with input errors. I wasn't completely warmed up to be playing Marth at that point.

January is when I started playing competitively. Literally never touched sheik once until maybe a month after that. I have almost never gone any character other than sheik in a tournament match, and the times I have were because I either a. didn't care or b. was just trolling. The reason why I don't try to seriously learn other characters at this point in time is because it would detract from my progress with sheik. At godlike this weekend I placed 4th in melee singles (behind lee, dope, and avery) and 7th in pm singles (behind who cares). But I also know that compared to the really good sheik players, I know very little about sheik as a character in terms of spacing, combo game, neutral game, etc. Watching top players play sheik and playing people like Lee Martin in sheik dittos always reminds me of how much more I have to learn. So until you can even take sets off of the top players in our own state, don't think there isn't a significant amount that you have left to learn. And if your having problems with different matchups then you don't know nearly enough about marth.

Edit : Having knowledge and applying it is two different things.

 

[heyitshoward]

Knowledge has to do with input errors and to assert otherwise is to create a false dilemma. You may "know" intellectually to do something but unless that knowledge is within your reflex or muscle memory then you don't actually know it.

Also your knowledge isn't very helpful of you don't know how to use it for a matchup (also knowledge btw)

 

[artofskjet]

Knowledge has to do with input errors and to assert otherwise is to create a false dilemma. You may "know" intellectually to do something but unless that knowledge is within your reflex or muscle memory then you don't actually know it.

Also your knowledge isn't very helpful of you don't know how to use it for a matchup (also knowledge btw)

What I'm trying to say is that my first time playing a Matchup I'm not just gonna be able to handle things like Bananna's and crap. My hand was also still holding down on the control stick instead of going back to nuetral.

Edit : Possibly in the dead zone where it barely counts as holding down. I don't know if you're misunderstanding me or not but I've only been to a total of 5 tourneys. I know what my mistakes are and I plan to fix them. I have knowledge of different matchups but actually playing that matchup is a different story. I don't know if you're trolling or not but this is just my opinion. I know what I know and that's how I feel.

 

['V']

Having multiple characters is a good thing. It's the reason why I got the good tournament placings that I did AND it's how I got my upsets against good players. It really does help. You just have to learn when, where, and how to use them all in order to reach that comfort zone.

 

[heyitshoward]

The point is basically that you say you have Marth "pretty much down" but you don't. Whether it's because of matchup inexperience, input errors, knowledge gaps or whatever the match vs Jsalt that you described is a perfect description of how you don't.

 

[GOL | 482 | JSalt]

I put SALT 1, SALT 2, and Monthly Godlike 3DS Ultimax into the Smashboards Rankings. Will be putting up results threads for each some time this week, probably tomorrow.

SALT 1 Melee Singles
SALT 1 PM Singles
SALT 2 Melee Singles
SALT 2 PM Singles
Monthly Godlike 3DS Ultimax 3DS Singles
Monthly Godlike 3DS Ultimax PM Singles
Monthly Godlike 3DS Ultimax Melee Singles

 

[RuslinJimmies]

You should not try to main 5 characters but instead focus on 1 character and work to develop that character so that instead of 5 mediocre mains you can alternate between and lose with, you have 1 solid main you can win with. Not saying your mediocre or anything just general advice, I don't believe I have ever played you.

I disagree with this on a certain level.
Initially learn one character like hell, but after that pick up a few to cover bad matchups especially in pm where the cast is largest. Even Nintendude beat m2k by playing peach dittos over peach vs IC's

 

['V']

Also, I'm highlighting vids from the Godlike stream and putting them up on the Team482 youtube channel as I type this. I will direct you when it's all done.

 

[Guzzler Guzzler]

You can't just cherry pick one instance of that working, there are plenty of examples of people choosing secondaries and it not working out for them

All these people stuck to their secondaries and lost:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wei_IQSwg4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AONdtkOaes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNQee9tc13I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vonUPMfBhc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbek21MTgEc

 

[heyitshoward]

Gotta have situational awareness. Anyway I'm not against secondaries at all, pocket characters can be very good. But realistically if you lose with a character it means you don't have done aspect our level of it complete. And if anyone is to the level where they're losing purely because of mechanical mistakes then he's probably a god.

 

[artofskjet]

Knowledge has to do with input errors and to assert otherwise is to create a false dilemma. You may "know" intellectually to do something but unless that knowledge is within your reflex or muscle memory then you don't actually know it.

Also your knowledge isn't very helpful of you don't know how to use it for a matchup (also knowledge btw)

Knowledge does not always have anything to do with input errors. My left hand ucontrollably shakes and inexperience can be a downfall for lots of young players. Diddy is no simple character where knowledge alone wins the game. you have to have experience against that character. I do have Marth down I just need more experience against some Matchups. Applying knowledge isn't as simple as you make it seem.

 

[artofskjet]

You can't just cherry pick one instance of that working, there are plenty of examples of people choosing secondaries and it not working out for them

All these people stuck to their secondaries and lost:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wei_IQSwg4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AONdtkOaes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNQee9tc13I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vonUPMfBhc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbek21MTgEc

by all these people you mean mostly armada lol

 

[heyitshoward]

I have never said applying knowledge is simple; it isn't. And if it were Smash would probably not be a very interesting game.
You have to have experience in any matchup to truly know it. Theory provides a framework but without actual experience you don't know anything.

When you analyze mistakes from your game, it becomes very problematic if the only things you pinpoint are habits or missed inputs (mechanical errors). Those are trivial surface-level mistakes and while they do need to be fixed only focusing on pressing the right buttons will get you only so far.

 

[artofskjet]

I have never said applying knowledge is simple; it isn't. And if it were Smash would probably not be a very interesting game.
You have to have experience in any matchup to truly know it. Theory provides a framework but without actual experience you don't know anything.

When you analyze mistakes from your game, it becomes very problematic if the only things you pinpoint are habits or missed inputs (mechanical errors). Those are trivial surface-level mistakes and while they do need to be fixed only focusing on pressing the right buttons will get you only so far.

I fixed those easy it only took me a minute not too long at all. I'm not going in depth into the problems I had because I know what mistakes I had. I got 17th which makes me sad compared to 9th, which i've gotten twice I believe, ( JSalt knocked me super early though ). I see your point though.

 

[Guzzler Guzzler]

by all these people you mean mostly armada lol

if 2/5 means mostly then sure

 

['V']

Alrighty, guys!! Got the videos from the most recent Monthly Godlike uploaded to the Level 482 YouTube channel. I got all the matches that I could before the stream died out. Check them out!!

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcSFa7RNfOGXRa_TeHEbKH7_ip7gurRBa

They're also highlighted on my Twitch channel if anyone wants to go there:

www.twitch.tv/vforextreme12

 

[Nikz0r]

For all of Brawl, I focused on D3. It worked well early on and a lot of the time. But then people picked up Falco. A lot of people. And all of a sudden I was struggling hardcore. Without any focus on a good secondary, there was nothing I could do except learn it as D3. I could beat mediocre ones but the good ones were tough, if not a losing battle.

Focus early on a few characters and hopefully they can cover each other. That's kind of what I'm doing with Smash4, even though it probably isn't going to be a great game, but it's fun for me lol.

Now, follow me to the promised land, friends!

 

[Magi_]

stick with one character and body people with said character

the only other char you should pick up is ganon, and never use him or any other char in tourney.

it worked for me

 

[artofskjet]

if 2/5 means mostly then sure

I just viewed who were the players and what characters and I saw a lot of Armada

 

[iceman48]

Knowledge does not always have anything to do with input errors. My left hand ucontrollably shakes and inexperience can be a downfall for lots of young players. Diddy is no simple character where knowledge alone wins the game. you have to have experience against that character. I do have Marth down I just need more experience against some Matchups. Applying knowledge isn't as simple as you make it seem.

I don't think matchup experience or input problems will help your uncontrollable shaking. Maybe focus on that first. Also, "I do have Marth down" and "I need more experience against some matchups" are two conflicting statements. Matchup knowledge and application of that knowledge are a huge part of using your character effectively. We're not trying to **** on you man, we're just saying that maybe your Marth isn't as good as you think it is, and maybe you need to focus on one character before spreading yourself thin. At least, that's my take.

 

[Magi_]

confirmed for laffy, woooo

 

[Yams Everywhere]

Monthly Godlike 3DS Ultimax 3DS Singles

Finally found a game that I'm good at.

 

[Cauthon Luck]

Hey JSalt, I think I can help out a bit with some characters who are missing from some players.

Sean played Falcon and Link against me in Melee. Vile plays Ganon in Melee and Mario/Ganon in PM. Chase plays Peach in Melee. Bizzell plays Kirby in PM. Nathaniel switches characters on an hourly basis but played Falco/Marth.

 

[artofskjet]

I don't think matchup experience or input problems will help your uncontrollable shaking. Maybe focus on that first. Also, "I do have Marth down" and "I need more experience against some matchups" are two conflicting statements. Matchup knowledge and application of that knowledge are a huge part of using your character effectively. We're not trying to **** on you man, we're just saying that maybe your Marth isn't as good as you think it is, and maybe you need to focus on one character before spreading yourself thin. At least, that's my take.

What I'm saying is that dealing with some Matchups are so much harder IRL than watching a video on YouTube

 

[VVB]

@ heyitshoward - I can't help but to read your name "Hey, it showered"

@ artofskjet - Just pick up a pocket character, preferably someone who has the least bad match ups. Like Pichu or Toon Link.