The limits to technical sheik

[brickman]

I agree with you h1roshi, I think that it is possible on almost all levels for Sheik to be as good as a space animal until one reaches the highest level of play. Very few of the top 25 players main sheik, and there is a reason for it. With their technical skills so advanced, the style of play and technical skills of sheik finally catch up to the super technical style of space animals.

I am also aware of the shffling capabilities of Sheik, and actively use them against space animals. As far as starting to play space animals, I think it is time that I have gotten over my phobia/ resentment of them and start playing them. I agree, sometimes a falco or a fox can be a great back up or counter.

 

[undeadpenguin]

i have always played as shiek. recently, i have been practicing falco and learning his tech stuff. i am starting to like him alot more because over a short period of time, it feels like my level of play has risen. i think im gonna test out my falco skillz in a tourny soon. but there is no way i can just ditch shiek. i love her style. once i can SH with her, i will be set.

 

[brickman]

Yea, so I just played my Sheik at SMYM 7. It was a really good time. Didn't win or place, but played a lot of really good people. Sat down and learned a lot more about how to improve my game from WuWu. All in all I learned a lot. My faith in sheik has risen once again.

 

[brickman]

I feel like that while there is limitations to Sheik, I feel it is very possible to overcome Sheiks potential technical shortcomings with consistent play and an excessively good mind game. As far as playing against Space animals, it is very technical play with a lot of thinking involved too. From viewing countless videos of Sheiks vs. Falco/Fox I find exceedingly good play matched with great mind games. Some inspiration has been drawn from keepspeedN, Drephen, Plairnkk, Aesis, and Azen. All of their play is so technical and awesome, I get a lot of hope, I know that it will just take time, practice and patience.

 

[knightpraetor]

" I'm developing some Marth techniques utilizing pivoting, which makes him even gayer by mobilizing his fsmash. YES! (can't DI out of fthrow => fsmash in many instances if the Marth pivots)."

First off..i want a description of how to use that..so basically if they di out of range
(on my other post on this topic i got contradictory opinions of whether they should di in or away) you pivot cancel the fsmash to tipper them?

and on to the main topic

first off, space animals are not all rote with the same style..the reason they appear that way is because there are myriad options and factors so a lot of people don't think enough..i swear most people myself included get bogged down by the sheer weight of how much you have to keep track of with space animals...while someone like marth or sheik has plenty of time to calculate intricate strategies and observe..space animals move fast and have to keep up to speed..and it's freaking hard to think that fast..i think only pros truly keep the same level of mind games while playing a space animal that they could do with another char..but maybe i'm wrong..

anyways, i think you should play whatever suits you best..

to me marth is controlling your opponent and good reading..fox is pressuring your opponent and juking them out...falco....hell, ok, maybe falcos do almost all play the same, at least on FD it feels that way..same for sheik...i like falco and sheik play on platforms though..especially sheik's needle game from platforms..

And falcon, omg i love him so beautifully fast with the flashy combos...but it's a lot of learning of combos...far more than anyone else i've played i think..he has combo options pretty much anywhere just have to learn them all

anyways like they said, more technical does not necessarily mean a better char..except maybe if you have inhuman reflexes...sometimes i wonder if one can ascend into godhood playing fox...the whole speed thing..but then my fox game sucks still..my mind can't keep up with my hands

 

[brickman]

I feel like while fox does move with inhuman speed, that most of the people who use him are thinking actively while they play. I do not disagree that fox has a lot of styles, and falco is basically the repetition and perfection of pillar shines into combos with shl. Congruently, I believe that Sheik has to move fast(perhaps not as fast as fox/falco) to be competitive. I find that stopping with sheik is a bad move. If you are on a level with platforms I find it exceedingly necessary to be wave landing across them into ff aerials. Some of the more recent and advanced sheik matches show a nonstop sheik on the same level of speed and offense as a space animal. Calculating what moves you are going to do should be second nature and you should have ideas of what moves you should do based on stage position, percentage, etc.

On a side note, I believe for any one character to be utilized to their maximum, controlling your opponent, reading them, putting pressure on them, and good mind games, as well as the utilization of platforms is essential. As far as Falcon. He is just a lot of fun, I mean come on he is just to fast and flashy not to love.

 

[tarheeljks]

i'm just not seeing how the approach tactics for falco/fox are any more repetitive than sheik's.

 

[brickman]

While all characters moves are based around the production of strings of combos and the desire for those moves to become infinites, their are differences between the "repetitiveness" of Fox and Sheik.

Let us first address the infinites that can be done by fox. You need look no further than "CunningKitsune's Complete Guide to Fox McCloud Version 4.00" to see the sheer number of infinites possessed by Fox.

Now let us address the infinites possessed by Sheik. While looking at "The Way of the Ninja: A Sheik Guide" we find that there is only one infinite, a stall. So while both of the characters posses infinites, the manner in which they can be applied varies greatly.

Furthermore, repetitive is a very vague term. And in relation to your statement ("I'm just not seeing how the approach tactics for falco/fox are any more repetitive than sheik's.") I find it difficult to derive exactly what you mean. As far as approaches by any character, their is variation. Sheik needs to approach different characters in different ways. You need look no further than the character match ups in "Plairnkk's Guide to playing Sheik!" to see how approaching characters varies. While fox varries his approach as seen in "Strategy for approaching(offensive)". I'm not arguing that repetitiveness is linked to technical ability, but rather overall consistency.

 

[AS Money]

While all characters moves are based around the production of strings of combos and the desire for those moves to become infinites, their are differences between the "repetitiveness" of Fox and Sheik.

Let us first address the infinites that can be done by fox. You need look no further than "CunningKitsune's Complete Guide to Fox McCloud Version 4.00" to see the sheer number of infinites possessed by Fox.

Now let us address the infinites possessed by Sheik. While looking at "The Way of the Ninja: A Sheik Guide" we find that there is only one infinite, a stall. So while both of the characters posses infinites, the manner in which they can be applied varies greatly.

Furthermore, repetitive is a very vague term. And in relation to your statement ("I'm just not seeing how the approach tactics for falco/fox are any more repetitive than sheik's.") I find it difficult to derive exactly what you mean. As far as approaches by any character, their is variation. Sheik needs to approach different characters in different ways. You need look no further than the character match ups in "Plairnkk's Guide to playing Sheik!" to see how approaching characters varies. While fox varries his approach as seen in "Strategy for approaching(offensive)". I'm not arguing that repetitiveness is linked to technical ability, but rather overall consistency.

what are you talking about sheik dose have an infinite attack on cornaria vs fastfallers PC Chris made it up and we all know PC is too good so it has to be the hardest thing in the world to do but i think i got the jist of it by watching it. pretty much tap a then a again then reset then a then a again. do this over and over again against the wing of corneria

 

[brickman]

Okay, while that is very possible, that is also very situational. It would have to be a counter pick stage. Also that is a wall infinite, as opposed to a drill shine infinite, wave shine infinite, etc.

 

[hhliveson]

i understand how it does seem like you need a character with a lot of tech skills in order to win the fight. but to put it into perspective, i'll use an example of my play. i main dr. mario who doesn't have a whole lot of tech moves except for some pill tactics, up-b cancel, and the shbawd. the one thing i like about him, and the same goes for sheik, is his versatility. both characters are very good at combos because you can link almost anything you want. plus, they both have several moves that can set up combos, so you can really attack someone from many angles.

yes, sheik does lack the tech moves that other characters use that can turn a fight around, but her ability to combo at almost any time is what makes her so dangerous, along with her speed and amazing projectile. before you give up on her i would simply just play around with her moves because you may be able to come up with some deadly combos in the process.

 

[brickman]

Agreed, and in no way am I going to give up playing Sheik. She has been my main for over a year now, and I'm sure as hell not going back to my previous main (Pikachu). As far as versatility of Sheik, needless to say she is versatile as hell. I enjoy playing her a lot, I was just interested in other peoples opinions on how they view Sheik and to discuss limitations in her play style vs other characters.