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The Last Nintendo All-Star: Dixie Kong's Barrel Of Support Spirits!

LiveStudioAudience

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There's a point relevant to both Metroid and DKC in that the longer a series waits between genuine mainline entries, the higher the risk in releasing spin-offs, especially of the experimental variety. While there are exceptions (Mario had new 1 mainline game between July 96 and April 2006 and survived fine) the aforementioned franchises have both dealt with it. The lack of actual Country titles in the aughts may have made hardcore fans even less inclined to try Konga or Jungle Beat, and the outright rejection of Federation Force should have been obvious from the beginning given both the long absence and how Other M went down.

Its a pity because a gradual universe exploration of the settings in Metroid and DKU via side games would be fantastic, just not at the expense of getting new mainline titles. It might be something for expanded media like comics, books, etc to partake in, but this is Nintendo we're talking about.
 

RetrogamerMax

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The problem with Metroid and Donkey Kong is that Nintendo hasn't really settle on a full fledged studio for those IPs like Hal Laboratory for Kirby, Intelligent Systems for Fire Emblem and Sora Ltd for Smash Bros. While Retro has been developing Metroid games since 2002 and DKC games since 2010, I wouldn't really call them that "full fledge studio" for those IPs since they have only pumped out 4 Metroid games in the past 20 years and 2 DKC games in the past 11 years. Retro might be a Nintendo studio, but they're not Hal Laboratory or Intelligent Systems as those studios have pumped out tons of Kirby, Fire Emblem and Paper Mario games in the past 20 years while Retro has only made several games in their career as a studio. DKC needs to be developed at Nintendo in house in Japan if they want to even come close to making the franchise as big as it was in the 90s again like when Rare was developing the games. For Metroid, I feel like either Retro needs to step up their game by pumping out more more quickly or Nintendo needs to give the Metroid IP to Next Level Games.
 
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Diddy Kong

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The fact that DK is in the top 10 of best selling Nintendo franchises and that it needed the fifth Smash game to get a third character is unacceptable.
I'm even more painfully reminded that it took to the 3rd game to get Diddy in. I mean, there was no reason for Diddy to be excluded for Melee really. I even think he should've seriously been considered for Smash 64.
 

Vector Victor

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I'm even more painfully reminded that it took to the 3rd game to get Diddy in. I mean, there was no reason for Diddy to be excluded for Melee really. I even think he should've seriously been considered for Smash 64.
Brawl's roster was fixing some of the blatantly missed characters that should have been added already such as Diddy, Charizard, DeDeDe, MetaKnight, Wario (although cutting Mewtwo was monumentally stupid). Diddy should have been added before Brawl, Banjo-Kazooie should have been added before Ultimate and Dixie should have been here already.

And looking it over, Smash 4's additions are kind of all over the place, almost feeling like "And the rest" at parts. Maybe it's because Ultimate delivered on many massive long time fan favorites.
 

Ridley_Prime

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Pretty much.

Characters like Wario, Mewtwo, Bowser, Ganondorf, and by extension Diddy ought to have been in Smash 64, who were already big during that era and had existing models on said system, but space limitations of the 64 cartridge is likely to blame, which is we why first got Luigi over Bowser and a 2nd pink sphere over Mewtwo. Sakurai may have also not expected Smash to become as big as it did at the time of the first game, which is why it was mostly filled with all the basic characters before he and the series became more ambitious.
 

MAtgSy

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Pretty much.

Characters like Wario, Mewtwo, Bowser, Ganondorf, and by extension Diddy ought to have been in Smash 64, who were already big during that era and had existing models on said system, but space limitations of the 64 cartridge is likely to blame, which is we why first got Luigi over Bowser and a 2nd pink sphere over Mewtwo. Sakurai may have also not expected Smash to become as big as it did at the time of the first game, which is why it was mostly filled with all the basic characters before he and the series became more ambitious.
No, the reason is the game had a shoestring budget because no one at Nintendo believed in it. The cart itself was about half the size of OoT.
 

RetrogamerMax

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The fact that DK is in the top 10 of best selling Nintendo franchises and that it needed the fifth Smash game to get a third character is unacceptable.
Actually, DKC is in the top 5 best selling Nintendo franchises as it's only behind Mario, Pokemon, Zelda and Animal Crossing in sales if I'm not mistaken. Despite franchises like Fire Emblem and Kirby having more games, DKC is still ahead of those IPs in overall sales.
 

BallZ

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I'm fine if Retro is in charge of DKC and Metroid, just as long as they keep the series on track and release quality titles consistently. While were at it, they should be in charge of Wario Land as well.

I just hate how dormant some of these amazing series have become, were four years into the switch and my only Metroid fix is NEStroid and Super Metroid, which are great, but c'mon we couldn't get at least one side scroller 2.5D game to tide us over, its already been almost five years since Samus Returns.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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The Metroid example is particularly significant because it's absent nature encapsulates both Nintendo's hit and miss handling of Metroid as well as how its misplaced focus on franchise spin-offs means its missed out on some fantastic opportunities to take advantage of the current market.

In an era where the Metroidvania is thriving right now, there's no real excuse for only releasing Samus Returns (on a dying system) in the past 15 years. Hollow Knight is a masterpiece in design and aesthetics, the Ori Duology pulled of brilliant nonverbal storytelling for its narrative, and even Bloodstained has successfully taken up the mantle of Castlevania style titles. In this sort of climate Nintendo could so easily tap into the momentum the genre has and revitalize the franchise in a real way. And given the successful reinvention of Mario and LoZ in their respective Switch games, its difficult to believe that the company couldn't do the same with Metroid.

And the argument will be that the 2D Metroidvania may only really be profitable for an indie level company, but to that I'd say that a new game (even one with a decent budget that had a real marketing push, such as being a major part of a Direct) in this day and age could make a decent amount of money, especially when the Switch has become such a haven for those style games. Moreover, the IP has a whole would be in a far better position to maintain momentum if there were so more modestly budgeted 2D entries between the major 3D ones.

Much like DKC, its a franchise that could use some new blood that are actually willing to do something with it consistently and given the lows of Other M or the misfire that was Federation Force, its unlikely that any new direction the series went with could do any worse damage.
 
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Diddy Kong

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I think Nintendo should really try to have their own studios dedicated to both DKC and Metroid really, and Retro Studios can assist in these projects, as well as Monolith (for the natural enviorments, they're doing a great job at these!) and maybe Monster Games? I wouldn't know. I do think that they need a team that's both experienced and dedicated, as well as creative as Nintendo puts a high emphasis on this.

Why wouldn't they try to literally remake Super Metroid? Or the original DKC? But bring in new areas, gimmicks and playstyles into the mix, making them fresh experiences for even the veterans? I mean, why can they remake Ocarina of Time so many times, but not these games? I bet there are tons of studios willing to work on DK and Metroid, but who really has both the experience and dedication? I think that's the main point...
 

Dinoman96

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Problem there is that Metroid probably just doesn't sell well enough in Nintendo's eyes to dedicate an entire team or company to.

In Donkey Kong's case, there have been rumors that EPD is making a new DK game and they want to bring the series back to being developed in-house, so we'll see how that goes.
 
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SonicSmasher1

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I'm f***ing sick of remakes and remasters. I rather brand new over remakes any day of my life, especially when 4/5 DKCs are on Switch through online services and a New Funky Mode. The industry's in a deep rut where everything has to be remade and I'm tired of it.
I know how you feel. I personally don't mind, but new is always better than old, and there shouldn't be too much old over new.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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And realistically outside some small graphical touch ups and widescreen, both the DKC games and Super Metroid are pretty much fine as they are. First party SNES games in general pretty much nailed it in their first attempts, and it feels far better long term to draw ideas from them than doing remakes that don't feel like they could add all that much.
 

RetrogamerMax

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Pretty much.

Characters like Wario, Mewtwo, Bowser, Ganondorf, and by extension Diddy ought to have been in Smash 64, who were already big during that era and had existing models on said system, but space limitations of the 64 cartridge is likely to blame, which is we why first got Luigi over Bowser and a 2nd pink sphere over Mewtwo. Sakurai may have also not expected Smash to become as big as it did at the time of the first game, which is why it was mostly filled with all the basic characters before he and the series became more ambitious.
Actually, most of these characters didn't make it into Smash 64 due to time constraints whether than space limitations. Like MAtgSy MAtgSy said, Smash 64 was half the size of Ocarina of Time. Plus if you want to go deeper on this, N64 carts can actually maintain as much memory as a N64DD disk as games like Conker's Bad Fur Day, Paper Mario and Resident Evil 2 were all 64MB games. That's as big of a file as a N64DD disk game. The N64 could carry more memory than Nintendo let on us to believe because the real reason they spent so much time wasting their resources and development on the N64DD back then was because producing those floppy Disk Drive disk would have been a lot cheeper than producing normal N64 carts. Producing games for the normal N64 cost Nintendo a fortune which is why they were desperate get the N64DD going to replace the normal N64 as the standard.
 
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Mariomaniac45213

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I'm f***ing sick of remakes and remasters. I rather brand new over remakes any day of my life, especially when 4/5 DKCs are on Switch through online services and a New Funky Mode. The industry's in a deep rut where everything has to be remade and I'm tired of it.
Boy who are you telling. Yes the entire industry is bad with it but MY LORD Nintendo is the worst with it IMO. Cause not only do they charge full price for their ports/remakes/remasters a lot of the time the graphics aren't updated much (3D All-Stars and Skyward Sword HD) and the ports barely add enough new content for old timers to feel like their moneys worth for double dipping. As someone who has been gaming with Nintendo since the SNES days and played all of Nintendo's backlog during the Wii era via VC. I want new experiences not the same ones rehashed over and over. I mean look at the Switch 1st party new/rerelease library ratio...

Ports/Remakes/Remasters:

  • Super Mario 3D All-Stars
  • Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker
  • Pikmin 3 Deluxe
  • Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze
  • New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe
  • Super Mario 3D World + Bowsers Fury
  • Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
  • Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition
  • Bayonetta 2
  • The Legend of Zelda: Links Awakening
  • Miitopia
  • Famicom Detective Club
  • The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword HD
  • Pokemon Lets Go Pikachu/Evee
  • Pokemon Mystery Dungeon DX
  • Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE
  • Pokken Tournament DX
  • Hyrule Warriors: Definitive Edition
  • Pokemon Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl

New games:

  • Kirby Star Allies
  • Yoshi's Crafted World
  • Super Mario Party
  • Super Mario Odyssey
  • Zelda: Breath of the Wild (even then this could be considered a port)
  • Splatoon 2
  • ARMS
  • Ring Fit Adventure
  • Astral Chain
  • Luigi's Mansion 3
  • Animal Crossing: New Horizons
  • Mario Tennis Aces
  • Mario Golf Speed Tour
  • New Pokemon Snap
  • Xenoblade Chronicles 2
  • Super Smash Bros. Ultimate
  • Fire Emblem Three Houses
  • Paper Mario: The Origami King
  • Clubhouse Games: 51 Worldwide Classics
  • Pokemon Sword/Shield
  • Pokemon Legends Arceus
  • Splatoon 3
  • Hyrule Warriors: Age of Calamity
  • Breath of the Wild 2
  • Fire Emblem Warriors
  • Super Mario Maker 2

So about 19 remakes/ports and 26 new games. I'll be honest a few of those new games left me very disappointed (Star Allies, New Horizons, Crafted World, Age of Calamity, Super Mario Party) or they felt like enhanced ports/semi-sequels (Splatoon 2 and Mario Maker 2). Switch era Nintendo aint doing it for me. 2017 was clearly the best year that Nintendo has yet to top IMO. Luckily 2022 if Nintendo plays their cards right could top or equal the Switch's 1st year with Splatoon 3, Legends Arceus, Bayonetta 3, Prime 4, and BOTW2 all releasing that year if they dont this year.
 
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DeniroSerafim

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I'm sure this has been talked about here before, but it's cool to know Miyamoto was more involved with the classic DKC games development than we may have initially thought. Surely Miyamoto would like to see Dixie get in Smash, right?

 
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Ridley_Prime

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What do ya know, the list of new games for Switch is bigger (albeit barely) than the list of ports. Still, this is the bed that AAA gaming has made and we have to lie in it. Plus y'know, many didn't own a Wii U as it was a flop, so for them a good chunk of those ports are first time experiences. Doesn't excuse the artificial scarcity tactic Nintendo does with a number of their remasters though.

I think Nintendo should really try to have their own studios dedicated to both DKC and Metroid really, and Retro Studios can assist in these projects, as well as Monolith (for the natural enviorments, they're doing a great job at these!) and maybe Monster Games? I wouldn't know. I do think that they need a team that's both experienced and dedicated, as well as creative as Nintendo puts a high emphasis on this.

Why wouldn't they try to literally remake Super Metroid? Or the original DKC? But bring in new areas, gimmicks and playstyles into the mix, making them fresh experiences for even the veterans? I mean, why can they remake Ocarina of Time so many times, but not these games? I bet there are tons of studios willing to work on DK and Metroid, but who really has both the experience and dedication? I think that's the main point...
I know this idea is outspoken because of how tired people are of remakes, but I would honestly take that for Metroid and DKC over nothing at a certain point. New games would remain preferred for me at the end of the day, but still.

Super Metroid I've always been more reserved on the idea of remaking for some of the reasons mentioned, but see some potential in it, and even more so with Metroid Fusion. For DKC, the first game or two could also bring in new areas and stuff like you said + using the existing old engine and other assets. We already had some new content on the GBA versions of the Rare trilogy, so I wouldn't be entirely opposed to expanding on it. Regardless, gaming has been a creatively bankrupt industry for awhile, so I don't blame you for thinking up such things at this point.
 

LiveStudioAudience

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Switch has really become an indie haven for me, largely because its the market still regularly making the kind of games I like. I've gotten numerous Metroidvanias, two spiritual successors to DKC in Impossible Lair and Kaze & the Wild Masks, a Paper Mario tribute with Bug Fables, and even a Mario RPG pastiche coming with Another Crusade.

If I can just get a good series of Star Fox esque titles, the "making up for Nintendo's mistakes" indie collection will be complete.
 

GAINAX

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So this Samus Hunter person on Twitter has been leaking A LOT of Nintendo information which has mostly come true.

Recently they predicted that MH Rise would be getting an update, including details on which monsters would be featured, which was all confirmed yesterday.
I messaged them personally to see if they had heard of anything DKC related and they had this to say:

Leak.png


I've asked if they have any idea when they think it might get announced.
Will keep you guys posted!
 

RetrogamerMax

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I really hope so. More often than not I'm on my ps4 and I barely touch the switch nowadays. It doesn't feel like there's brand new games, just the latest port. Whether it's Nintendo themselves or a past gen 3rd Party, it's mostly stuff I already played.
I swear, if Nintendo keeps up with nothing but ports more than new games for most of their IPs come their next console, I'm not going to buy the console after that because I'm tired of ports and I want something new that isn't a new Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem or Kirby game.

So this Samus Hunter person on Twitter has been leaking A LOT of Nintendo information which has mostly come true.

Recently they predicted that MH Rise would be getting an update, including details on which monsters would be featured, which was all confirmed yesterday.
I messaged them personally to see if they had heard of anything DKC related and they had this to say:

View attachment 312654

I've asked if they have any idea when they think it might get announced.
Will keep you guys posted!
So what is this Samus Hunter's leak record? Are they credible?
 

RetrogamerMax

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Near the start of the SSE when a cannon is fired at Diddy, many thought that meant K Rool did it and he was joining the roster.
That's what I thought when I first saw that scene.

The plot continues.

So that's what happened to the old DK Island.
 

Handy Man

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Still feels weird to me that K Rool only got added in Ultimate. I think it's his slowness and how dark green he is that just makes him scream Brawl to me.
King K. Rool was also in plenty of games around Brawl’s release. He was in DK King of Swing, DK Jungle Climber, and Donkey Kong Barrel Blast. He was also set to appear in the then-upcoming Mario Super Sluggers. If King K. Rool was added back in Brawl, I would imagine that he would have still appeared in games consistently to this day.
 

Vector Victor

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King K. Rool was also in plenty of games around Brawl’s release. He was in DK King of Swing, DK Jungle Climber, and Donkey Kong Barrel Blast. He was also set to appear in the then-upcoming Mario Super Sluggers. If King K. Rool was added back in Brawl, I would imagine that he would have still appeared in games consistently to this day.
It is rather ironic:

During Brawl, K Rool was active and Dixie was in hibernation, but Brawl planned to add Dixie and skipped K Rool.

Then skip to Ultimate, where K Rool was inactive and Dixie came back in a main line game, and Ultimate adds K Rool and skips Dixie.

The moral here? K Rool and Dixie should have been in Smash before Ultimate.
 

Handy Man

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It is rather ironic:

During Brawl, K Rool was active and Dixie was in hibernation, but Brawl planned to add Dixie and skipped K Rool.

Then skip to Ultimate, where K Rool was inactive and Dixie came back in a main line game, and Ultimate adds K Rool and skips Dixie.

The moral here? K Rool and Dixie should have been in Smash before Ultimate.
Not entirely true. Dixie Kong was also in Donkey Konga 2 and Mario Hoops 3-on-3, in addition to the games I mentioned for King K. Rool. Dixie Kong was pretty active during the early Wii and DS days, with her and King K. Rool both notably being absent in Returns. Other than Returns, I would definitely disagree with Dixie Kong being in hibernation around the time Brawl was new. Same with King K. Rool.

During the Smash 4 days, Dixie Kong was relevant once again due to Tropical Freeze. The exact same thing happened again with the Switch port of Tropical Freeze being relevant during Smash Ultimate. To compare, King K. Rool was M.I.A. since 2008’s Mario Super Sluggers, and he unfortunately faded into obscurity by the time Smash 4 was announced.

Honestly, absolutely nothing changed for King K. Rool between Smash 4 and Ultimate; he could have been added to Smash 4 just as easily as he joined in Ultimate. But at the end of the day, I feel like Brawl was the best chance for both Dixie Kong and King K. Rool to join. They were both active and featured in DK and Mario games at the time, and it could have secured them as more reoccurring characters. Sure, adding Diddy, Dixie, and K. Rool all in Brawl may sound excessive, but Melee did add four Zelda newcomers at once, so it doesn’t seem too farfetched.
 

RetrogamerMax

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It is rather ironic:

During Brawl, K Rool was active and Dixie was in hibernation, but Brawl planned to add Dixie and skipped K Rool.

Then skip to Ultimate, where K Rool was inactive and Dixie came back in a main line game, and Ultimate adds K Rool and skips Dixie.

The moral here? K Rool and Dixie should have been in Smash before Ultimate.
The universe works in mysterious ways. But K. Rool was added to Ultimate because of his extraordinary performance in the Smash Ballot. But yes, both K. Rool and Dixie should have been in by Brawl or Smash 4.

Not entirely true. Dixie Kong was also in Donkey Konga 2 and Mario Hoops 3-on-3, in addition to the games I mentioned for King K. Rool. Dixie Kong was pretty active during the early Wii and DS days, with her and King K. Rool both notably being absent in Returns. Other than Returns, I would definitely disagree with Dixie Kong being in hibernation around the time Brawl was new. Same with King K. Rool.

During the Smash 4 days, Dixie Kong was relevant once again due to Tropical Freeze. The exact same thing happened again with the Switch port of Tropical Freeze being relevant during Smash Ultimate. To compare, King K. Rool was M.I.A. since 2008’s Mario Super Sluggers, and he unfortunately faded into obscurity by the time Smash 4 was announced.

Honestly, absolutely nothing changed for King K. Rool between Smash 4 and Ultimate; he could have been added to Smash 4 just as easily as he joined in Ultimate. But at the end of the day, I feel like Brawl was the best chance for both Dixie Kong and King K. Rool to join. They were both active and featured in DK and Mario games at the time, and it could have secured them as more reoccurring characters. Sure, adding Diddy, Dixie, and K. Rool all in Brawl may sound excessive, but Melee did add four Zelda newcomers at once, so it doesn’t seem too farfetched.
It makes me sad to think about as sometimes, I think Brawl was Krystal's only chance to get in Smash and now that ship has sailed unless she ever returns to the Star Fox franchise. Krystal was literally at the height of her popularity and relevancy during Brawl.
 
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