Dixie Kong's Barrel Of Support Spirits. Farewell Everyone, Thank You ALL For Making This Thread An Excellent Place For DK Fans!

[Mariomaniac45213]

I really don't think a character being dead has any impact on whether a character would be an echo fighter or not. K. Rool was a dead character. He hadn't been around for even longer than Dark Samus.

Wrong...sorry had to correct this. K.Rool last appeared in Mario Super Sluggers in 2008. So K.Rool has one year over Dark Samus. Not to mention the fact K.Rool has WAYY more appearances under his belt and is STILL the main antagonist of the DK franchise. Where as Dark Samus is only a side antagonist to the entire Metroid franchise. Just wanted to put my two cents and correct the facts.

 

[GravelerChamp60]

I think the only reason Isabelle is not an echo of Villager is because they have different body types. So far every echo derives from the same body type from their original source and that alone boosts Dixie's chances as an echo of Diddy. Sakurai did explain in his column after the 8/8 direct that echos have to derive from someone else's model, but they can have moveset adjustment's like Chrom did. It is still likely that she makes it in as a unique fighter, but I think that would only happen if Sakurai makes an exception and publicly justifies that he has kept the DK franchise underrepresented for a long time.

 

[ZeroJanitor]

I really don't think a character being dead has any impact on whether a character would be an echo fighter or not. K. Rool was a dead character. He hadn't been around for even longer than Dark Samus.

i think they meant that dark samus is literally dead in the metroid canon

 

[Sabertooth]

Actually Dark Samus did make a physical appearance in Smash 4, so she had that over K Rool! Not that it matters anymore since they're both in.

Anyway, yeah, those of you expecting Dixie to make it as a unique fighter, or even an Isabelle-like fighter, are very positive-thinking individuals who I'd love to get to know in person, but who I believe will be quite disappointed. I agree that she has tons of moveset potential, but man, it's been so long and she's so overdue that I just want to play as my favorite gum-chewing gorilla girl already. At this point I might not even be THAT depressed if she's a skin for Diddy (which, yeah, that'd be pretty terrible).

 

[BirthNote]

I really don't think a character being dead has any impact on whether a character would be an echo fighter or not. K. Rool was a dead character. He hadn't been around for even longer than Dark Samus.

The status of the character is not as important as character development priority. Sakurai said that because the top priority was bringing everyone back that there wouldn't be too many newcomers. What that means is the very few unique newcomers that they decided to make had to be the absolute most requested/popular characters. Everyone else would be an echo fighter or an Assist Trophy like Shovel Knight.

That's why I think Dixie will be an echo or not in at all. Because of priorities. Sakurai prioritized bringing back all the old fighters plus Ridley, Simon, K. Rool, etc. And because Dixie can easily be realized as an echo, it's likely she will be.

I don't think some of you realize what "not a lot of new fighters" means and how the competition for that spot to be a unique fighter is incredibly steep.

I think there are still a lot if people in the Smash Board community expecting quite a bit more, when the reality is that we probably only have two more unique fighters left and maybe three echo fighters.

I suppose if she doesn't make it in the base game there's a possibility she will make it in as DLC. But I doubt that would have been Sakurai's plan all along and it would most likely be due to fan outcry that he adds Dixie. That's why he added Mewtwo, Roy and Lucas. Otherwise the DLC was based on gaming legends like Cloud and Ryu, or promotional characters like Corrin and Bayonetta (and yes I think Bayonetta was added for promotional reasons and not the Ballot).

K. Rool got in because of the Ballot. Ultimate's pool of candidates comes from Wii U/3DS era + Ballot Data, like I said in the last post. We know the era of focus, plus the ballot juggernauts and when the project plan was finalized, and Dixie fits in nicely among those categories, thanks to Tropical Freeze. Dark Samus has none of that going for her. She's not just dead because her final game was 11 years back, she's dead to her series. Corruption was the absolute end of Dark Samus, where she's deader than dead and can't be resurrected. You can mutate another Metroid, but you can't mutate it into Dark Samus. She will likely never return to the series.

K. Rool's not a dead character in any sense that Dark Samus is. Even if we didn't keep him on people's minds, he has potential to return to any DK game with no need to explain how he was brought back, and unlike the mutant metroid, the king croc was one of the most requested characters on the ballot. Both he and Dixie would be prominent in the team's range of focus: both have popularity, one rocked the ballot and the other was prominent in the relevant era. Dark Samus can't boast high performance in any of those categories; Dixie's far more likely to be prioritized than Dark Samus for those reasons, and her strength would keep her from interfering with K. Rool. Again, Dark Samus's best time to shine was Smash 4 and she didn't make the cut. Now, with her strong likelihood of never reappearing, her last game being 11 years ago and far more popular characters, her only shot at being playable would be an Echo--which is the purpose of Echo fighters: Characters that people like but have no real way of making it in otherwise, nor meet Ultimate's paradigm.

And as we've seen, Dixie can be realized as a Semi-Clone, like Isabelle. Look at Diddy and Dixie's sprite sheet and tell me how many animations they share; YouTube the Kong comparison vids if you don't have access to Tropical Freeze and look at their animations, attacks, idles, cutscenes, running, Kong Roll/Pow, victory, Boss Beat-em-Up and abilities throughout the series and name the ones they share. There's far more difference and nuance than similarities, but people seem determined to not acknowledge them. All the things Sakurai said about Isabelle can be easily applied to Dixie, and if Wolf took 70% of the resources needed for a new character, Isabelle certainly would've taken a similar percentage. A Semi-Clone Dixie is certainly feasible, especially if she takes percentages like that or less.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Lets remember too besides Hyrule Warriors which isn't canon that Ganondorf's last mainline appearance was Twilight Princess. Totally relevant amIriteowut!?

 

[BirthNote]

Michael the Spikester Ganondorf's last appearance was Ocarina of Time 3D, but ignoring that, he falls under the "Everyone is Here!" banner.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Michael the Spikester Ganondorf's last appearance was Ocarina of Time 3D, but ignoring that, he falls under the "Everyone is Here!" banner.

Except that was a remake of the original N64 game.

 

[BirthNote]

Except that was a remake of the original N64 game.

"Everyone Is Here!"

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

Lets remember too besides Hyrule Warriors which isn't canon that Ganondorf's last mainline appearance was Twilight Princess. Totally relevant amIriteowut!?

Ganondorf is Ganon though, and Ganon is in practically all the games, he's the main villain after all.

 

[Koopaul]

K. Rool got in because of the Ballot. Ultimate's pool of candidates comes from Wii U/3DS era + Ballot Data, like I said in the last post. We know the era of focus, plus the ballot juggernauts and when the project plan was finalized, and Dixie fits in nicely among those categories, thanks to Tropical Freeze. Dark Samus has none of that going for her. She's not just dead because her final game was 11 years back, she's dead to her series. Corruption was the absolute end of Dark Samus, where she's deader than dead and can't be resurrected. You can mutate another Metroid, but you can't mutate it into Dark Samus. She will likely never return to the series.

Like I said before. I don't think that matters at all. You ignore my point about priorities and a small handful of unique newcomers being chosen. I truly believe that only people as big as K. Rool and Ridley will make it in the roster. And sadly, Dixie doesn't come close to those guys. She doesn't even come close to Isabelle! I know someone made a post about Isabelle, and how Dixie is more popular... Are kidding? Isabelle is one of the most popular Nintendo character right now. She super outshines Dixie. You guys gotta face the reality that Dixie isn't as huge of a deal as you think she is. Yes she's popular. Yes she has history. Yes she has a recent game she stars in. But those are still small potatoes to how huge the fandoms are for all these other characters.

her only shot at being playable would be an Echo--which is the purpose of Echo fighters: Characters that people like but have no real way of making it in otherwise, nor meet Ultimate's paradigm.

Do you know why echoes are primarily made? Because it's an easy way to make a fighter. That is the number 1 reason. They are there to pad out the roster and characters that can be made into an echo likely will.

And as we've seen, Dixie can be realized as a Semi-Clone, like Isabelle.

Sakurai made it clear that Isabelle couldn't be made into an echo fighter because she has different proportions and was less violent than Villager. There needs to be a reason why a character simply can't be an echo and not a reason why they should be unique. There is no reason why Dixie can't be an echo fighter. She has the same proportions as Diddy. A lot of Diddy's moves would look natural and fine on Dixie. Dixie could toss bananas, Dixie could Monkey Flip, Dixie could kick and slap. But Isabelle can't hit people with an axe or punch people with boxing gloves or drop a bowling ball on someone. They would look wrong. The only thing Dixie can't do is use a jetpack. That would look wrong. But as we've seen with Chrom, an echo can have a different up special.

Look at Diddy and Dixie's sprite sheet and tell me how many animations they share; YouTube the Kong comparison vids if you don't have access to Tropical Freeze and look at their animations, attacks, idles, cutscenes, running, Kong Roll/Pow, victory, Boss Beat-em-Up and abilities throughout the series and name the ones they share. There's far more difference and nuance than similarities, but people seem determined to not acknowledge them. All the things Sakurai said about Isabelle can be easily applied to Dixie, and if Wolf took 70% of the resources needed for a new character, Isabelle certainly would've taken a similar percentage. A Semi-Clone Dixie is certainly feasible, especially if she takes percentages like that or less.

That doesn't matter. You could say that about anyone who is an echo fighter. That they have tons of different animations from their source game. And you know what? Echo fighters litterally can have different animations. We've seen how differently someone like Dark Samus can move jump and dodge. Why can't that be the same with Dixie?
It doesn't matter how unique a fighter could be as long as they can be an echo to save development time and make balancing easier. That is the primary reason why echo fighters exist. To make the game development and balancing easier.

As someone who loves Dixie, I would love to be wrong about what I am saying. I know how unique she could be. And I know she could be like Wolf or Isabelle. But at the same time, I know she could just as well be an echo. And there is nothing stopping her from being one, unless Sakurai didn't want her to be one... And honestly, I highly doubt that.

 

[BirthNote]

Like I said before. I don't think that matters at all. You ignore my point about priorities and a small handful of unique newcomers being chosen. I truly believe that only people as big as K. Rool and Ridley will make it in the roster. And sadly, Dixie doesn't come close to those guys. She doesn't even come close to Isabelle! I know someone made a post about Isabelle, and how Dixie is more popular... Are kidding? Isabelle is one of the most popular Nintendo character right now. She super outshines Dixie. You guys gotta face the reality that Dixie isn't as huge of a deal as you think she is. Yes she's popular. Yes she has history. Yes she has a recent game she stars in. But those are still small potatoes to how huge the fandoms are for all these other characters.

I directly addressed your point about priorities when I detailed Dark Samus's, K. Rool's and Dixie's status, the era of focus and the Ballot. By "[not thinking] that matters at all" you're willingly disregarding how every Smash game chose characters, the fact that Sakurai admitted the Ballot playing a factor and the current lineup of Echo Fighters. Name me one Echo who meets the levels that Dixie's on. Daisy's 100% assimilated into spinoffs. Chrom got passed over for Robin and another Echo, and took the backseat again for Corrin. Richter would never be in if not for Simon. Dark Samus--which you don't wanna accept--is the villain of a subseries and will not be coming back, missed her best shot in 2014 and has been gone for 11 years.

I'm assuming you know how Support Threads work, right? You show enthusiasm and hype up a particular character, with this being Dixie's thread you can guess who the enthusiasm will go to. If you're gonna get annoyed at one user talking up Dixie in her own thread I can't help but laugh.

Do you know why echoes are primarily made? Because it's an easy way to make a fighter. That is the number 1 reason. They are there to pad out the roster and characters that can be made into an echo likely will.

They're roster padding that's chosen after they pick the main newcomers. For all intents and purposes, they're bonus characters; they look at a list of candidates, choose a select handful and if they have time, then throw in the "bonus desserts". Dixie, unlike Dark Samus would've shown up in more than one category besides "She looks like someone else." Look at the current lineup of Echoes and assess what they have going for them, then compare that to Dixie's. She's not on K. Rool or Ridley's level but she is far above the Echoes in pedigree. Don't kid yourself into thinking otherwise. She's got more going for her than "Female Diddy."

Sakurai made it clear that Isabelle couldn't be made into an echo fighter because she has different proportions and was less violent than Villager. There needs to be a reason why a character simply can't be an echo and not a reason why they should be unique. There is no reason why Dixie can't be an echo fighter. She has the same proportions as Diddy. A lot of Diddy's moves would look natural and fine on Dixie. Dixie could toss bananas, Dixie could Monkey Flip, Dixie could kick and slap. But Isabelle can't hit people with an axe or punch people with boxing gloves or drop a bowling ball on someone. They would look wrong. The only thing Dixie can't do is use a jetpack. That would look wrong. But as we've seen with Chrom, an echo can have a different up special.

I told you to look at Diddy and Dixie's animations from DKC2-Tropical Freeze. Diddy can't grab with his tail. Diddy can't fly with his tail. Diddy can't throw with his tail. What you can't grasp is that Dixie over-relies on her hair, and a Dixie that doesn't fight with it, grab/throw with it and maneuvers through the air with it is not Dixie. The most basic moveset you can give her would result in a unique dash attack, her own UpB, grabs and throws that are nothing like Diddy's. You've seen too many mods and think that slapping Dixie's skin onto Diddy's moveset would work. From her very first game they made sure to differentiate the 2 Kongs in function, personality, abilities and animations. That's remarkable considering Nintendo loves passing off recolors as new characters. Dixie cartwheeling would look wrong. Dixie being hyperactive and mauling foes with cartoon antics would look wrong. Dixie not using her hair outside of a reskinned jab would look wrong. Dixie not over-relying on hair abilities for her moveset would look wrong.

For all your talk of what Isabelle can't do, you sidestep the fact that she is just as much of a blank slate as Villager moveset-wise. You hinge your assertions entirely on what she can do based on her personality, then imply Dixie has none to speak of despite 3 main games showing personality, and--what Isabelle doesn't have--actual abilities to back them up.

That doesn't matter. You could say that about anyone who is an echo fighter. That they have tons of different animations from their source game. And you know what? Echo fighters litterally can have different animations. We've seen how differently someone like Dark Samus can move jump and dodge. Why can't that be the same with Dixie?
It doesn't matter how unique a fighter could be as long as they can be an echo to save development time time and make balancing easier. That is the primary reason why echo fighters exist. To make the game development and balancing easier.

Doesn't matter? You mean the fighting game series that uses each character's games, animations, personality traits, and abilities for source material doesn't matter? Even when Sakurai said so himself--especially in regards to the character you just propped up for being a necessary Semi-Clone?! You've contradicted yourself. It does matter. In fact it matters quite a bit, since many users expected an Echo out her--you included. The same justifications Sakurai used for Isabelle can undoubtedly be used for Dixie, plus she already has moves to work with. Unlike Dark Samus, she's still likely to reappear in future DK games, has the relevant era going for her and is more popular.

If you're gonna use those justifications for Isabelle, expect the same to be applied to Dixie, against your opinion of how she should be portrayed. Don't throw it out the window because it's being used for someone you don't want it to.

 

[ZelDan]

I think the biggest think differentiating Echo Fighters from everyone else can be found from this article. (Sourcegaming doesn't work at this moment, though this section below was something Sakurai stated)



So Daisy, Richter, Chrom and Dark Samus were probably also balanced similarly to Lucina and Dark Pit. Dr. Mario may not have been considered an echo because he's being balanced against the entire roster.

In terms of Dixie, my feeling is that the biggest thing that would probably exclude her from being a viable echo fighter is that her most iconic ability that she absolutely needs in order to feel like herself, her Helicopter Spin, would alone dramatically make her different enough where simply balancing against Diddy alone may not be enough and unlike Chrom, there's only one character with a similar enough body-type that she could borrow moves. Given that the trend with every Echo Fighter seems to be having no unique moves (outside of a Final Smash) of their own (possibly for balancing) and characters like Young Link and Dr. Mario not being counted as Echo Fighters, could the Helicopter Spin be enough to disqualify Dixie as an Echo Fighter material? I personally think so.

Couldn't they just give Dixie DK's recovery though and have her hair spin during it? they Made Chrom a Roy echo but gave him Ike's recovery.

 

[Aeon Lupin]

Couldn't they just give Dixie DK's recovery though and have her hair spin during it? they Made Chrom a Roy echo but gave him Ike's recovery.

The animation would still have to be done by scratch, and it wouldn't be just a slight posture change like Dark Samus.

 

[MoonlitIllusion]

The animation would still have to be done by scratch, and it wouldn't be just a slight posture change like Dark Samus.

This pretty much. It's not like chrom borrowing Ike's up special since the two already pretty much have the same proportions, you'd have to completely reanimate the move, and then you also have to change things like grabs and dash attacks and at that point you're blurring the lines of what is an isn't an echo and spending far more development time on just an echo when you could just make her a semi-clone in the first place.

 

[pepiux]

Same old arguments. "Chrom has a different Up-B" (no he doesn't, the animation is still borrowed). "Isabelle would look wrong doing this (no she wouldn't; her moveset was made from scratch and she doesn't have any trademark abilities)", "Dixie can do everything Diddy can do" (of course she can. why don't we have Chrom fight using punches and kicks? Oh right. He has a sword, he should fight with it).

We've been through this. Let's move on.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If nothing else, it helps that Tropical Freeze was the latest game. Even there, Diddy and Dixie's movements and abilities are already drastically different. Different run animation, different dash attack, even different movements in the air when bouncing on enemies despite both having the most similar body shape out of the playable Kongs. Funky and DK move even more alike than Diddy and Dixie. There's a lot that can be build up from Diddy's moveset in Smash to create Dixie, but I think that we got far more potential than even Isabelle has. Still think her being a Echo would be weird, but I still take it.

However, with the rate of us getting new Echoes, I doubt there will be that many left honestly. The case for a Echo Dixie was much stronger when they where still steadily revealed, all of us believing there where tons of Echoes left after we've seen Chrom, Dark Samus and Richter. But since that's not the case, I honestly doubt Dixie would be one of the final Echoes left. I can see those spots only being saved for the likes of Ken, Shadow or Impa due to their franchises needing newcomers more at the moment, and their best bet is a Echo newcomer.

 

[SeashoreWar]

I've been playing some Mario Tennis Aces and it got me thinking if Dixie was in the game, what her alternative outfit could look like. So I decided to give it a go!

 

[BirthNote]

I've been playing some Mario Tennis Aces and it got me thinking if Dixie was in the game, what her alternative outfit could look like. So I decided to give it a go!

This is straight up awesome! I'm gonna add a lot of your art to the OP this weekend.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

I've been playing some Mario Tennis Aces and it got me thinking if Dixie was in the game, what her alternative outfit could look like. So I decided to give it a go!

Very cool, I love your artwork!

Also I had a funny thought with a different variation with the monkey flip, she would latch on the opponent from the head with her ponytail(she would handstand on them) and either throw them forward with a front flip or spring off them with her hands.
It might be a little too similar but it was something funny to share the idea with.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Ideally, Dixie's variation to Monkey Flip would be a sort of hair-based command grab attack. Diddy's Monkey Flip already sort of functions as a hyrbid command grab, but Dixie would take it a little farther. It seems most fitting for her, but also would really love it if Donkey Kong himself got such an attack instead of the weird Headbutt.

 

[Strong DK]

Ideally, Dixie's variation to Monkey Flip would be a sort of hair-based command grab attack. Diddy's Monkey Flip already sort of functions as a hyrbid command grab, but Dixie would take it a little farther. It seems most fitting for her, but also would really love it if Donkey Kong himself got such an attack instead of the weird Headbutt.

Agreed. Command grab for Dixie is a must and would be much more fitting for DK too. DK could have some sort of arm throw or just spin enemy around and toss him/her away. Just like he did to Ghastly King.
For Dixie i think she could choke enemies first and then toss them upwards for follow-ups

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

I like that picture overall but I don't think Dixie should wear shoes or shorts. I think once you wear shorts or shoes, people will perceive you as naked when you don't. Imagine if DK suddenly wore shirts for 3 main games. And then he took it off. This is not the type of energy we want in a DK game.

Or better yet, imagine if Funky, whose standard design since DKC3 (1996) involves him wearing clothes now. What if he suddenly took them off again? Imagine that. We don't want too much of that type of discussion for DK games. It is best if Dixie remains shoeless and pantless.

 

[Gobliiin]

It seems Dixie is slowly taking the forefront of discussion and opinion of the next main character that should just down right be in the game no question. Starting to see her name come up more and more especially in positive light than it has been before hand.

Its obvious that's the case and she should have already been in before but its good to see people have or are at least coming round to the idea.

Can I be added to the list of supporters as well please?

 

[ZeroJanitor]

Imagine if DK suddenly wore shirts for 3 main games. And then he took it off. This is not the type of energy we want in a DK game.

i dont think thats comparable to a tennis outfit for a spinoff game that isnt even from your series

 

[SeashoreWar]

i dont think thats comparable to a tennis outfit for a spinoff game that isnt even from your series

Yeah. I get what they're saying, but I was just thinking of it as an alternative skin. Much like Mario has 2 different skins in the game.

 

[Koopaul]

I directly addressed your point about priorities when I detailed Dark Samus's, K. Rool's and Dixie's status, the era of focus and the Ballot. By "[not thinking] that matters at all" you're willingly disregarding how every Smash game chose characters, the fact that Sakurai admitted the Ballot playing a factor

I never said the Ballot wasn't a factor. In fact that's the main reason I think Dixie will be an echo fighter because she still doesn't hold a candle to the likes of K. Rool on the ballot. That people who don't make it in the top 5 or whatever will not be considered in the project plan as unique fighter.

Name me one Echo who meets the levels that Dixie's on. Daisy's 100% assimilated into spinoffs. Chrom got passed over for Robin and another Echo, and took the backseat again for Corrin. Richter would never be in if not for Simon. Dark Samus--which you don't wanna accept--is the villain of a subseries and will not be coming back, missed her best shot in 2014 and has been gone for 11 years.

I never said that I don't accept Dark Samus as a villian subseries yadda yadda yadda. I know that's true. I just don't believe that is the main reason why she is an echo fighter. I think the main reason she is an echo fighter is because she has the same build as Samus and has decent popularity. I don't recall Sakurai ever stating that because Dark Samus will not be coming back to the Metroid series, she will be an echo. That seems silly to me.

I'm assuming you know how Support Threads work, right? You show enthusiasm and hype up a particular character, with this being Dixie's thread you can guess who the enthusiasm will go to. If you're gonna get annoyed at one user talking up Dixie in her own thread I can't help but laugh.

That's not what is going on here. I'm annoyed that you think its improbable that she could be an echo fighter. I am a Dixie lover. But I'm also a realist.

They're roster padding that's chosen after they pick the main newcomers. For all intents and purposes, they're bonus characters; they look at a list of candidates, choose a select handful and if they have time, then throw in the "bonus desserts".

And you honestly believe that in a game that prioritizes bringing everyone back and can only have a small handful of unique newcomers that Dixie will be one of them? If this were any other Smash game, I'd agree with you. In fact, before I knew about Ultimate, before I knew about them bringing everyone back, before I knew that they were going to bring in fan favorites like Ridley and K. Rool, before I knew the pressence of echo fighters, I was 100% certain that the next Smash would be like SSB4. I was 100% certain it would follow the same patterns and add characters that were relevant to the Wii U era and that Dixie would be top priority along with Elma. But everything is different now. This game is doing things completely different from SSB4. Prioritizing long time fan favorites and veterans over relevant characters.

Dixie, unlike Dark Samus would've shown up in more than one category besides "She looks like someone else." Look at the current lineup of Echoes and assess what they have going for them, then compare that to Dixie's. She's not on K. Rool or Ridley's level but she is far above the Echoes in pedigree. Don't kid yourself into thinking otherwise. She's got more going for her than "Female Diddy."

What the ****! Stop stawmanning me! I AM A DIXIE FAN! I AM AWARE OF HOW UNIQUE SHE IS AND HOW SHE DESERVES TO BE A UNIQUE FIGHTER WITH UNIQUE MOVES. My argument is that with less time to develop characters and the burden of balancing 70+ characters means it is likely they will cut corners with certain characters who are not as high up as K. Rool and the other (and lets be honest here) 6 unique fighters that Ultimate will launch with.

I told you to look at Diddy and Dixie's animations from DKC2-Tropical Freeze. Diddy can't grab with his tail. Diddy can't fly with his tail. Diddy can't throw with his tail. What you can't grasp is that Dixie over-relies on her hair, and a Dixie that doesn't fight with it, grab/throw with it and maneuvers through the air with it is not Dixie. The most basic moveset you can give her would result in a unique dash attack, her own UpB, grabs and throws that are nothing like Diddy's.

Actually Dixie doesn't pick up things with her hair in Tropical Freeze. You know why? Gameplay reasons. They wanted Dixie to be able to hold barrrels and still float. So they got rid of her hair grab. Developers are known to cut moves and abilities for gameplay reasons. Smash is notorious for getting rid of signature abilities of certain fighters for whatever reasons there need be. Hell, Wario lost his Shoulder attack in SSB4! It's back now but my point is Sakurai is not unwilling to compromise powers and abilities.

You've seen too many mods and think that slapping Dixie's skin onto Diddy's moveset would work. From her very first game they made sure to differentiate the 2 Kongs in function, personality, abilities and animations. That's remarkable considering Nintendo loves passing off recolors as new characters. Dixie cartwheeling would look wrong. Dixie being hyperactive and mauling foes with cartoon antics would look wrong. Dixie not using her hair outside of a reskinned jab would look wrong. Dixie not over-relying on hair abilities for her moveset would look wrong.

An echo fighter is more than just an easy reskin. They change a bunch of animations to try to match the personality of the fighter. The running animation can be different, idle is different, the taunts are different, the dodgeing and jumping animations can be different. Those reskin mods are nothing like what a true Dixie echo would be like.

For all your talk of what Isabelle can't do, you sidestep the fact that she is just as much of a blank slate as Villager moveset-wise. You hinge your assertions entirely on what she can do based on her personality, then imply Dixie has none to speak of despite 3 main games showing personality, and--what Isabelle doesn't have--actual abilities to back them up.

Personality can be represented through tweaked animations. And they can show Dixie's personality easily through altering animations. The difference between her and Isabelle is that Villager uses equipment that wouldn't seem right with her. Specifically the axe. I also believe that the Animal Crossing team probably is super more concerned about Isabelle's non-violent image and twisted Sakurai's hand a bit. And finally, and most importantly, Isabelle has different proportions from Villager. That alone makes her impossible as an echo.

Doesn't matter? You mean the fighting game series that uses each character's games, animations, personality traits, and abilities for source material doesn't matter?

It doesn't matter... for an echo fighter. Clearly Sakurai has demonstrated that he willing to sacrifice abilities to make an echo.

Even when Sakurai said so himself--especially in regards to the character you just propped up for being a necessary Semi-Clone?! You've contradicted yourself. It does matter. In fact it matters quite a bit, since many users expected an Echo out her--you included.

Let's take a look at what Sakurai said about Isabelle.
"This is because Isabelle and Villager have fundamentally different body types and personalities, so we couldn’t have made her an Echo."
He said fundamentally different body types and personalities. Now that is important. I think you can easily demonstrate a characters different personality in an echo fighter by changing their idle, their voice, their victory animation, and their taunts. Look at Dark Pit. He has a fundamentally different personality from Pit. So what is the issue with Isabelle? It's their fighting style. Something in the way Villager fights goes against Isabelle's personality. I think it was specifically the axe.

As for my original opinion. I was wrong. However, in the past I have always brought up how unsure I was if Isabelle could be an echo or not due to the very different proportions her an Villager had. I was back and forth on Isabelle. I made that post in the Rating thread because I was still shocked to see just how many unique things they gave Isabelle after her reveal. I assumed they would, at the most, give her a different Down Special as well as her having different proportions and a few new animations to show off her personality. But they went all out. And now that I think about it, it makes sense. She's unbelievably popular and her merchandizing alone makes a ton of money. So they are going to go through the extra effort to make her that much more unique.

I think those are the main reason she is not an echo. Proportion differences, the axe clashing with her personality, and her being one of the most popular Nintendo characters.

The same justifications Sakurai used for Isabelle can undoubtedly be used for Dixie, plus she already has moves to work with.

Like I stated above, Sakurai would have to feel like Dixie had a fundamentally different body type from Diddy, and that Diddy had a fighting style that would go against her personality. Which I don't think is the case. None of Diddy's attacks go against Dixie's personality since a lot of them are generic monkey attacks.

Unlike Dark Samus, she's still likely to reappear in future DK games, has the relevant era going for her and is more popular.

And like I said above, I don't think being relevant is much of a factor for Ultimate. Things are different from SSB4. The priorities are different and who is relevant and who isn't doesn't matter as much.

If you're gonna use those justifications for Isabelle, expect the same to be applied to Dixie, against your opinion of how she should be portrayed. Don't throw it out the window because it's being used for someone you don't want it to.

I want Dixie to be unique! I love her and know she has the capabilties to be unique. STOP STRAWMANNING ME. I am just skeptical of it actually happening.

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

Wow that was an Alolan Exeggutor of a post! Anyway:

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

Isabelle has different proportions than Villager. But so does Dixie and Diddy, and in fact to a much bigger degree. And that's because Dixie has a huuuuge ponytail attached to her head. And unlike Isabelle's personality and proportion differences, that difference in body has had big consequences for gameplay in the actual DK games. It's a physical body and function difference. That's a fact.

And it's a fact even if you disagree and have "Double Trouble" tattooed across your buttcheeks.

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

Isabelle has different proportions than Villager. But so does Dixie and Diddy, and in fact to a much bigger degree. And that's because Dixie has a huuuuge ponytail attached to her head. And unlike Isabelle's personality and proportion differences, that difference in body has had big consequences for gameplay in the actual DK games. It's a physical body and function difference. That's a fact.

And it's a fact even if you disagree and have "Double Trouble" tattooed across your buttcheeks.

This is true, even Brawl mods for Diddy had to add an extra bone for Dixie's ponytail. It's a key element to her character entirely.

 

[Koopaul]

Isabelle has different proportions than Villager. But so does Dixie and Diddy, and in fact to a much bigger degree. And that's because Dixie has a huuuuge ponytail attached to her head. And unlike Isabelle's personality and proportion differences, that difference in body has had big consequences for gameplay in the actual DK games. It's a physical body and function difference. That's a fact.

And it's a fact even if you disagree and have "Double Trouble" tattooed across your buttcheeks.

Hm... I suppose the ponytail doesn't need a hitbox any more than the hair on the Koopalings does. Iggy has this big tall hairdo and it doesn't factor in anymore than bald Morton. However, if Dixie was to have even one attack with her hair, it would require a hitbox. Meaning her being an echo would be impossible.

Well dang! You got me! She can't be an echo. See? This is a good point I didn't think about.

I still stand by my point that "relevancy" is not really that important in Ultimate. But when you talk about hitboxes and the physicality of a fighter then that makes a lot of sense.

 

[Turnips and Daisies.]

Wouldn’t the hair bone still make her compatible with Diddy though? Since the other bones are the same? The problem with Isabelle is that her main bones aren’t really compatible with Villager’s.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Hm... I suppose the ponytail doesn't need a hitbox any more than the hair on the Koopalings does. Iggy has this big tall hairdo and it doesn't factor in anymore than bald Morton. However, if Dixie was to have even one attack with her hair, it would require a hitbox. Meaning her being an echo would be impossible.

Well dang! You got me! She can't be an echo. See? This is a good point I didn't think about.

I still stand by my point that "relevancy" is not really that important in Ultimate. But when you talk about hitboxes and the physicality of a fighter then that makes a lot of sense.

So that would mean that Dixie's hair would have a hurtbox as well right. I certainly do not hope that's the case, it would probably be a major weakness just like DK and Mewtwo in Melee having weird hurtboxes making them far easier to hit than they should (I know, I played these characters both in Melee). If it's disjointed, it would still require bone structure work even if it's a disjointed hitbox, which am not sure of if it should honestly... In one way, it would make sense for Dixie's hair to be disjointed, and at the same time, it won't.

Pretty sure she's complicated enough to warrant being a semi-clone. All things considered, it's either semi-clone or no Dixie. And maybe this just makes her a prime candidate for DLC.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

So that would mean that Dixie's hair would have a hurtbox as well right. I certainly do not hope that's the case, it would probably be a major weakness just like DK and Mewtwo in Melee having weird hurtboxes making them far easier to hit than they should (I know, I played these characters both in Melee). If it's disjointed, it would still require bone structure work even if it's a disjointed hitbox, which am not sure of if it should honestly... In one way, it would make sense for Dixie's hair to be disjointed, and at the same time, it won't.

Pretty sure she's complicated enough to warrant being a semi-clone. All things considered, it's either semi-clone or no Dixie. And maybe this just makes her a prime candidate for DLC.

Somehow though I'm bit afraid about that maybe one "loop-hole" they could pull off with this is them corporating Spinning Kong only as the move that has Dixie use her ponytail, and bypass giving a hurtbox + hitbox on that because it'd be using all of her body as well to hit with it (or give ponytail a temporary hitbox). So she could still be pony-tailless echo, which'd be more favorable for the resources Sakurai and his team in Ultimate's development.

Probably spitballing something needless pessimistic here, but again, Dark Samus's (and to lesser extent Daisy's) case makes me wonder further how it's easy to forego giving anything unique to "similar"-looking characters becoming Echoes since Smash 4.

 

[cybersai]

It's nearly October and Dixie still isn't confirmed for Smash. How sad.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

It's nearly October and Dixie still isn't confirmed for Smash. How sad.

That could be said of many other characters out there. Best wishes to their supporters - and all of us.

 

[Koopaul]

So that would mean that Dixie's hair would have a hurtbox as well right.

Not necessarily. Weapons like swords don't have hurtboxes. If Dixie's hair is treated like a weapon ot won't need one. Heck. Diddy's tail doesn't have a hurtbox. But it did have a hitbox for one move.

 

[SethTheMage]

Personal opinion, but after thinking about it, I don't like the idea of Dixie getting a varient of Spinning Kong even if she ended up as an echo fighter. If she got Monkey Flip, she would already prefer that as a horizontal recovery option, and she would have nothing for vertical. I would even prefer a varient of Olimar or Duck Hunt's recovery where she uses her hair to freely fly upwards with no hitbox before a horizontal hair spinning move. I know it would look more like her iconic Helicopter Spin, but it would make her recovery worse than Diddy's, which despite being exploitable, at least has the ability to recover vertically.

 

[Mariomaniac45213]

It's nearly October and Dixie still isn't confirmed for Smash. How sad.

Hey at least we got King K. Rool so far. I'd much rather have had him than NO DK newcomer at all at this point in time or worse yet no new DK newcomer at all like we got in both Melee and Smash 4....

 

[Arymle Roseanne]

Personal opinion, but after thinking about it, I don't like the idea of Dixie getting a varient of Spinning Kong even if she ended up as an echo fighter. If she got Monkey Flip, she would already prefer that as a horizontal recovery option, and she would have nothing for vertical. I would even prefer a varient of Olimar or Duck Hunt's recovery where she uses her hair to freely fly upwards with no hitbox before a horizontal hair spinning move. I know it would look more like her iconic Helicopter Spin, but it would make her recovery worse than Diddy's, which despite being exploitable, at least has the ability to recover vertically.

I actually think she could imitate Wii Fit Trainer's up b easier than Dk's though she still has to her twirling instead of cartwheeling which is why many believe that being an echo would be too out of character for her.