The ideal patch: Robin

[TheLobsterCopter5000]

I think it says something about Robin when if you were to make all his/her moves unlimited, (s)he would be very good, but not OP. The usage limits aren't the problem, it's the payouts. Frame data is also a bit wonky. Hopefully this will help.

Run speed: 1.15 -> 1.2
Air speed: 1 -> 1.06
Jumpsquat: 7 -> 5
Jab 1 BKB: 40 -> 38
Jab 2 BKB: 45 -> 40
Jab (elwind) finisher damage: 2 -> 2.3
Ftilt startup: 8 -> 7 (FAF compensated)
Fsmash Levin damage: 16 -> 16.5
Dsmash Levin BKB: 50 -> 55
Dsmash Levin angle: 55 -> 38
Nair (hit 1) active: 9-12 -> 7-10
Nair (hit 2) active: 22-25 -> 18-22
Nair FAF: 50 -> 45
Fair Levin damage: 12.5 -> 13.2
Bair Levin damage: 15 -> 16
Uair Levin damage: 13 -> 13.7
Dair (clean) Levin damage: 11 -> 11.5
Thunder damage: 4.5 -> 5
Thunder FAF: 39 -> 36
Elthunder damage: 10.5 -> 11
Elthunder FAF: 48 -> 46
Arcthunder (first hit) damage: 3 -> 3.4
Arcthunder (loop) damage: 1 -> 1.1
Arcthunder (final) damage: 1 -> 1.1
Arcthunder FAF: 48 -> 44 (might be too good, but I think it will be fine)
Thoron (all) damage: 2.6 -> 3 (again, might be too good, but I think it's fine)
Arcfire FAF: 64 -> 59 (get those followups!)
Elwind now gives Robin knockback based armour for frames 5-42 (115 units to break). Also now properly sweetspots the ledge at any time (remember, you can hold down to override this).
Nosferatu recharge time: 40 seconds -> 18
Nosferatu damage per hit: 0.8 -> 1.1
Nosferatu now heals 20% more damage
Nosferatu grab active: 15-16 -> 12-16
Nosferatu grab box size: +0.3

 

[zzTatsumaki]

Personally, I don't think her down special needs to be changed, its meant to be used sparingly, and punishes you for wasting it. I don't think Robin needs any buffs on her levin sword attack either, as they're already strong with very strong knockback. Everything else I pretty much agree with. However an additional buff would be to stall her recovery, like how you can stall Link/TLink's Fsmash. I feel it work make her recovery alot less predictable and be able to dodge any ledge traps set ups.

 

[TheLobsterCopter5000]

Personally, I don't think her down special needs to be changed, its meant to be used sparingly, and punishes you for wasting it. I don't think Robin needs any buffs on her levin sword attack either, as they're already strong with very strong knockback. Everything else I pretty much agree with. However an additional buff would be to stall her recovery, like how you can stall Link/TLink's Fsmash. I feel it work make her recovery alot less predictable and be able to dodge any ledge traps set ups.

I usually try to have these threads reflect the general opinions on each fighter from the competitive community. I do not main Robin, but from what i gather, many people believe Nosferatu is the worst Tome, which is why i buffed it. However, as i said, I am not a Robin main, so I am bound to make mistakes. I will say that I considered altering Elwind in the way you suggested, but I think it was intended to be somewhat restrictive in usage, which is why i decided against it. However if you think there is a way to change it without making it too different, then i would love to hear your opinion on how to do it.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

The only real changes that I've made to Robin are the durability values for his tomes and Levin Sword. Recharge times are also made shorter, such as with Elwind, which only requires 240 frames to recharge, while Nosferatu takes 1800 frames to recharge.

Other changes are to his weight and walk speed, with the latter being negligible in most cases.

 

[Nah]

Ah, I was wondering when you'd get around to doing Robin for this series of threads of yours.

I think that damage and knockback value increases are unnecessary for the character, she ****s out a lot of damage and hits like a truck already.

The small mobility changes are good though. Having piss-poor mobility really hurts and so any buff to that is welcome, and the changes are small enough to not have to worry about making the character absurd either. Nair changes are nice too.

Nos is....I think a lot of people just look at the frame data and respawn time and immediately go "ew this move is bad", but like, it's a ****ing command grab that heals, it can't be THAT bad. Yes it's not something that one uses a crapload like say Thunder spells or Fair, but still that =/=awful move. I like Nosferatu and don't really think it needs any huge changes. But that's just me.

The jab changes though, what exactly do they do? I can't really visualize what that does to it.

 

[TheLobsterCopter5000]

Ah, I was wondering when you'd get around to doing Robin for this series of threads of yours.

I think that damage and knockback value increases are unnecessary for the character, she ****s out a lot of damage and hits like a truck already.

The small mobility changes are good though. Having piss-poor mobility really hurts and so any buff to that is welcome, and the changes are small enough to not have to worry about making the character absurd either. Nair changes are nice too.

Nos is....I think a lot of people just look at the frame data and respawn time and immediately go "ew this move is bad", but like, it's a ****ing command grab that heals, it can't be THAT bad. Yes it's not something that one uses a crapload like say Thunder spells or Fair, but still that =/=awful move. I like Nosferatu and don't really think it needs any huge changes. But that's just me.

The jab changes though, what exactly do they do? I can't really visualize what that does to it.

For some reason, the base knockback oon jab 1 and 2 were increased in 1.1.5, which made it harder to properly connect into Elwind jab

 

[zzTatsumaki]

I usually try to have these threads reflect the general opinions on each fighter from the competitive community. I do not main Robin, but from what i gather, many people believe Nosferatu is the worst Tome, which is why i buffed it. However, as i said, I am not a Robin main, so I am bound to make mistakes. I will say that I considered altering Elwind in the way you suggested, but I think it was intended to be somewhat restrictive in usage, which is why i decided against it. However if you think there is a way to change it without making it too different, then i would love to hear your opinion on how to do it.

I feel a way the stalling with elwind could work would be have it work as Bayonetta's recovery (horrible comparison but still), in where Robin could (assuming she still has a jump) Use Elwind, Jump, Elwind again, then going into freefall. I say like Bayonetta's recovery because she can Witch twist, Jump, Witch Twist (I dont use Bayonetta at all so that could be wrong).

 

[Wnyke]

From my perspective robin would be in a better position as a character if any or all of the following were true:
-arcfire did twice the number of hits with less damage of course, to prevent escaping before the final hit.
-arcfire had a windbox just as arcthunder.
-thoron knockback were better.
-thoron knockback angle were more vertical or horizontal.
-nosferatu didn't leave you in a freefall state while used airborne.
-shield damage from books or sword does got increased.
-d-smash hit further below the edge.

I like the idea of changing jabs knockback or to give arcfire less ending lag.

 

[Yonder]

All Robin would need to be instant high tier is a faster ground speed, like even as fast as idk, WFT. All the follow-ups and strings you'd be able to do out of arc thunder most of all? It did wonders for Mewtwo and would certainly help Robin.