The Ideal "4.0"

[1FD]

My only criteria for ideal 4.0 is "so good that everybody who can play it, plays it, and the community brings everlasting peace and joy and camaraderie to the world through gaming"

Yikes. To be honest, I don't know how much damage I can do with my Spider-Man teams. I've been struggling to find that character I both like, and can string assist combos with. Haven't really had time to figure it out.

It was a Smasher using a Spider-Morri-Doom team that intrigued peeps like Chris G to flock to her.
Smashers rule. SO GOOD WE RUIN EVERYTHING BY BRINGING PEACE AND JOY AND CAMARADERIE TO THE WORLD BY VIDEO GAMING

 

[CardiganBoy]

Am i the only one who think Brinstar is boring as hell? i could take Planet Zebes from SSB64 any day, with acid and all, but i would love if they remaster the stage as well.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Am i the only one who think Brinstar is boring as hell? i could take Planet Zebes from SSB64 any day, with acid and all, but i would love if they remaster the stage as well.

Remastered Zebes sounds glorious. I'd love remastered version of every "vintage" stage. Brinstar is like fighting on a galactic piece of ****.

 

[SpiderMad]

For Metaknight, Mario, and Luigi's tornadoes; trash the mashing mechanic in favor of holding the B button and inputting directions.

I thought of this too, but would making them more responsive also work? I think PM already made the Mario brothers require less presses or something to gain the max height or any height at all: I wonder if they could make it even a bit more easy without losing preciseness or something. Are you not for mashing mechanics in general, such as breaking grabs or Snake's tranq?

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Well, for Leon, he could always be an alt. of Snake, right?

Nope. Alternate costumes for a character must still be that character, so no Shadow over Sonic, Jeff over Ness, Isaac over Link, etc.

 

[Shariq]

Five non-pichu clone engine characters.

Luffy for Smash Bros 4

 

[Sour Supreme]

Nope. Alternate costumes for a character must still be that character, so no Shadow over Sonic, Jeff over Ness, Isaac over Link, etc.

I'm glad PMBR implemented those limits. Alas, if you've played Mother 1 then Giygas in that game as a Mewtwo alt would be so cool.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Luffy for Smash Bros 4

Oh glory. He'd have such OP range.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

I'm glad PMBR implemented those limits. Alas, if you've played Mother 1 then Giygas in that game as a Mewtwo alt would be so cool.

B*tch

Of course I've played Mother 1.

Of COURSE that would be the greatest thing ever.

But yeah I can deal.

 

[Sour Supreme]

B*tch

Of course I've played Mother 1.

Of COURSE that would be the greatest thing ever.

But yeah I can deal.

Sorry, I wasn't sure. It's a rarity. I've met more people who have played M3's fan translation. I really want someone to make Giygas in that form with his own move set. I would do it but I have the dev skills of a digested potato.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

Sorry, I wasn't sure. It's a rarity. I've met more people who have played M3's fan translation. I really want someone to make Giygas in that form with his own move set. I would do it but I have the dev skills of a digested potato.

No need to apologize, I was responding in a joking manner.

Like

"Awww damn you jokin'? Of course I have, cuz"

That kind of tone of voice. The Internet can make things sound murky I guess.

But yeah my sig expresses my want for Ninten so I've played Mother 1. I've played all 3.

 

[TechMage299]

I feel like the game behaves a little different from the actual Melee, I know they can't match everything frame perfect, but final version would be Melee with every character in Smash in my eyes.

 

[Shariq]

Oh glory. He'd have such OP range.

yeah even though he has no chance in making it, he wouldn't even really work at all in Smash.

 

[Smashing Since Sperm]

I feel like the game behaves a little different from the actual Melee, I know they can't match everything frame perfect, but final version would be Melee with every character in Smash in my eyes.

I disagree wholeheartedly. I feel like one of the greatest things about PM is that it stands as its own game. If you like Melee, that's available to you. If you like Brawl, that's also available. If you want the perfect fusion of both, PM is your answer. Even if they could match everything frame perfect to Melee, I feel like they absolutely shouldn't.

On topic, I would love it if Zelda and Shiek each got their own down special and removed all transformations.

 

[BigglesWorth]

Well I listed my practical "ideal" 4.0 that is the minimum requirement for me to really think it was a great 4.0 update. Now for the almost controversial, highly opinionated, extensive wishlist for my personal absolute ideal 4.0 addition:

1. Full Page of tournament viable stages for the first page.
   1. Halberd-with canon fire removed
   2. Frigate Orpheon-modified with no transitions, platform layout like Smash4's smashville (2 platforms moving inward and outward), and better ledges.
   3. Metal Cavern- slightly wider stage.
   4. WarioWare- side walls extended the length of two squares of training room.
   5. More representation from other games.
2. Increased Toolset for characters in general to offer more in depth play (more useful moves; more ways to play with playstyle; higher skill ceilings)
   1. Ganon-armor on legs for part his nair, shortened initial dash animation for a better RAR, a way for Ganon to armor different moves at player's choice.
      
   2. Zelda-Din's Fire to be left mostly the way they are but with added counterplay (timer ticks down for every placed mine for percentage taken at a rate of 7%/.4 seconds as well as fires being able to be shield before they are placed), speed up up tilt and down tilt, increase her initial dash animation to a nice long dashdance to control space with, a bit of startup added to neutral b.
      
   3. Toon Link- more crouch canceling potential.
      
   4. Fox/Falco-a slight increase in the spectrum of angles on the up b.
      
   5. Bowser- make back throw untechable.
   6. Lucas-left alone, except maybe DACUS removed.
      
   7. Squirtles-when cancelling withdraw with b on ground, the lag time is much less
   8. Charizard- DI mixup on throws, cancelling glide on 5th or 6th frame lets you input an aerial out of it
      
   9. DK-another Di mixup on throw that leads into tech chases on his non-cargo throws.
   10. Ness-extend his boost grab.
       
   11. Olimar-give each pikmin an additional use such a more shieldstun, faster flight time with forward smash, etc., dash attack goes off ledges.
       
   12. Ike-slightly longer wavedash to give a few more spacing options
   13. Mewtwo-make up tilt/up air more "di-able", nair looses its priority slowly during animation.
       
   14. Deedeedee-pressing a while doing side b does a gordo instead of a waddle (can't side b until gordo is gone; normal side b just does waddles), give him a dacus, longer wavedash.
   15. Roy-different tipper hitbox property (like it sends them straight up or maybe just more hitsun).
   16. Pikachu-make side throws have higher knockback to be kill throws at higher percents.
   17. Lucario-reduced startup on smash attacks to allow more consistent reads, reduced lag after launching projectile to grant him an approach independent of aura.
       
   18. Other characters getting higher tech ceiling possibilities.
3. Revision of descriptions of characters and stages on the Project M site based on the developments at tournaments (i.e. waddledashing, playstyle descriptions,general descriptions of how they affect counterpicks, etc. ).
4. Alternate Costumes Galore
   1. Sonic-Shadow Costume
   2. Pikachu-Sparky Costume
   3. Lucario-kitsune colors (white, red line markings)
5. A set out plan to announce refining certain things for balancing: mainly grab armor (to create more trades), ability to crouch cancel (to create more variety), get up/ledge attacks/ledge rolls/air dodges (to create more viable options in troubling matchups) , and DI windows.
   
6. Bigger Gamertag limits.
   
7. A tournament mode that could incorporate swiss style calculation or just a mode that kept scores on gamer tags as long as it was active.
   
8. Record Function for AI on training mode.
   
9. Refined AI that does not die nearly as much.
10. Swag Mode-a game mode that gives you points based on getting the most hits in an uninterrupted combo and doing uninterpreted taunts.
11. A possible increase in the use of different mechanics as well as a mechanical way of dealing with ledgestalling. (Possibility: footstools work on invincibility).

Edit: Clarifying 11. Added to Zelda. Had an idea for Zelda's Din's Fire Rework. Removed YL idea. Added Lucario idea to round out his game.

 

[AstraEDM]

I'd love a way to play online on the wii system after nintendo shuts it down in may

 

[Foo]

I am liking project M a lot, far more than any of the other smashbros games, but there are several things that really irritate me which I would love to see patched. These are mostly quality of life changes, but some of them have balance implications as well.

1. Bind shorthop to a button: I would legitimately spend good money for this feature, lol. The difference between a shorthop input and normal jump input is really really small. I tried binding jump to R and pressing r halfway down, but that still did a normal jump. I get the need for high skill cap mechanics, but I don't see the point of making the ability to gently press a button skill. I'm not proposing removing the current jump mechanic, just adding in "shorthop" into the list of bind-able controls.

2. Shielding with the grab button. It is really frustrating to shield when you are going for a grab. I know that I can shield grab with L+A, but I find myself shielding when I grab fairly often. Say, I roll past a bowser forward smash, then walk up and hit R (my binding) to grab. Half the time I shield, half the time I grab, it's really annoying. I know in melee, there was light shielding, but I don't think that's in PM.

3. Samus selecting freeze in character select. It's silly that samus players who prefer ice have to have find time to do a taint to switch, when it could be selected in character select like how you switched between sheik and zelda in brawl.

4. A fix to stupid moves: There are a few really dumb moves in this game (like in any smash game) that could use a tweak. For example, charzard's neutral b. It is almost completely useless in normal situations, but can rack up a free 200% off stage against certain characters. I'm not even saying it's OP, it's just really really dumb and broken. I would love to see it replaced with a more ususable move that couldn't be abused (i.e. same animation, faster cast, more knockback/damage but cannot be held down.) Other examples of stupid moves imo are Ness side-b, Mario's frame two downsmash and any guaranteed chain grab that lasts for more than a few grabs. Most characters feel pretty balanced, so I think any change to most characters with dumb moves should receive a compensating buff.

5. I want Zero Suits side-b from brawl back: I know I'm wrong, I know it's not best for the game or the character, I know you can do sick combos out of her current side-b and I know it doesn't objectively make sense, but I WANT IT.

While 5 is silly, I feel 1-4 would improve the game, though 4 would take a LOT of work on the dev side. If you disagree, feel free to say so and explain why. I would love to discuss it with you. However, please don't call me a noob and try to invalidate my point with ad hominem. Let's have a civil discussion. If there are things you want added or changed for balance/personal/QoL reasons, please post those as well.

 

[Bazkip]

There's a thread called The Ideal "4.0" which would probably be a better place for this than it's own thread

Well this post looks silly now

 

[Sour Supreme]

While this needed to be in a different thread, as Bazkip pointed out,

I read through the post and think you have a few valid points. However, shorthop honestly isn't that crucial when fighting, and even so I practiced for a week or so and I'm now able to differentiate between short and high fluently. Samus's taunt does not take up much time lmao. If people can find the time to do so during a combo, in between moves, certainly you can find time otherwise.

 

[Foo]

Zero Suit really needs some buffs

1. With her Fair, the 2nd kick has a really hard time connecting after like, 50%. Also, I feel that it should have a tad bit more knock-back...
2. A slightly bigger hitbox for her Dair is needed. It just kinda feels awkward to land.
3. If you're gonna keep her grab as a tether (which is still highly punishable) then let he recover with Zair after an air dodge just like Link and Samus.
4. Down Smash start-ups frames should be reduced by 1-2 frames.
5. Her Dash attack is virtually useless now. It doesn't combo into Up-Tilt like it did in vBrawl, or anything else for that matter. The knockback needs to be greatly reduced and the angle needs to be diagonal.
6. Her Uair actually seems weaker than it was in Brawl, it's not a viable kill option at all unless you're at a low-ceiling stage. Buff, or maybe give tipper?

6. I would LOVE for her vBrawl Down-B to return. Or let us cancel her flip at any time into a Uair, Bair, Fair, Side-B, or Up-B. Dair can still be the divekick, and if you press Down-B again I want her vBrawl meteor smash sex-kick back. Honestly, nobody really uses her current Down-B, except for recoveries. Problem is, you can't act of it until you're at the apex of the flip, so it's too readable for opponents and limits how quickly you can act. And again, Down-B after already flipping should be her old sex kick.

ZSS is a great character concept-wise but she just has too many obvious flaws and disadvantages compared to the rest of the roster IMO (her moves are extremely easy to DI out of, and you can even mash out of her paralysis.) I also feel that Jigglypuff needs to receive some knock-back buffs overall, and I don't even play her.

Super late reply to this, but I feel I have to.

1. I can see that change, but I am not sure it's nessecary.
2. Her dair does NOT need a bigger hitbox. If it had a bigger hitbox, it would probably lead to dair into dair into dair over and over on more characters than just big heavies.
3. Why? You can just up-b or side-b
4. I would really like this, but again, not sure it's needed.
5. Completely wrong. Sure, her dash attack doesn't combo into up tilt, but it DOES combo. I pulled this combo off recently (he missed two techs that could save him, was at about 40% iirc) Dash attack-dash-crouch cancel-downtilt-dash attack-dash-crouch cancel-downtilt-dash attack-dash-crouchcancel-downsmash-forwards smash. You can knock them off the stage with this combo, so long as they don't tech and downsmash them when they do off the stage. Dash attack also combos into dash-shorthop-nair at high percent and dashing up-b at low percents.
6. I don't think it's any different than in brawl. I think her upair is amazing.

As for her down-b, I miss it too, but new down-b is a defining aspect of her current character. If it was changed back, they'd have to change more stuff as well. I use her downb all the time. It's really good for approaching above an enemies head. Fast fall onto them, and downb just before you reach them. If they shield, you can charge laser then dash into grab or pivot grab. If they use a move to hit you as you come down, you can land a free kick out of the down-b.

 

[Foo]

There's a thread called The Ideal "4.0" which would probably be a better place for this than it's own thread

Yeah, I didn't see that until after I posted this thread. I was looking for a suggestions sub-forum, but didn't look at all the threads in GD before posting. Imo, it's kind of lame to put ALL suggestions in a single thread, though. It makes discussing each individual suggestion (that has merit) virtually impossible.

While this needed to be in a different thread, as Bazkip pointed out,

I read through the post and think you have a few valid points. However, shorthop honestly isn't that crucial when fighting, and even so I practiced for a week or so and I'm now able to differentiate between short and high fluently. Samus's taunt does not take up much time lmao. If people can find the time to do so during a combo, in between moves, certainly you can find time otherwise.

It really depends what character you are playing. I can see how ness and mewtwo wouldn't make much use of it, but Zamus really needs to shorthop. Dash-shorthop-nair is a much safer and slightly faster (although lower reward) alternative to dash attack. Shorthop downair is a good way to pressure shield, as you bounce up. shorhopping backwards into a nair (works better than wavedash into ftilt) is a good way to dodge and counter, and shorthop bair is damn near essential if you ever want a kill. My secondary, Samus (shut up, I mained her in melee like 8 years ago lol) needs shorthopping to missile cancel on some stages.

This is the change I want the most by far. It just makes the controls easier to use, doesn't lower the games skill cap, and has absolutely no balance implications.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Yeah, I didn't see that until after I posted this thread. I was looking for a suggestions sub-forum, but didn't look at all the threads in GD before posting. Imo, it's kind of lame to put ALL suggestions in a single thread, though. It makes discussing each individual suggestion (that has merit) virtually impossible.



It really depends what character you are playing. I can see how ness and mewtwo wouldn't make much use of it, but Zamus really needs to shorthop. Dash-shorthop-nair is a much safer and slightly faster (although lower reward) alternative to dash attack. Shorthop downair is a good way to pressure shield, as you bounce up. shorhopping backwards into a nair (works better than wavedash into ftilt) is a good way to dodge and counter, and shorthop bair is damn near essential if you ever want a kill. My secondary, Samus (shut up, I mained her in melee like 8 years ago lol) needs shorthopping to missile cancel on some stages.

This is the change I want the most by far. It just makes the controls easier to use, doesn't lower the games skill cap, and has absolutely no balance implications.

I see where you're coming from. The best you can do is practice short hops and hope that the PMBR decides changing it would benefit the game.

 

[Xermo]

"Thank you for the feedback, loyal consumer. Your input shall be taken into consideration and we hope you'll enjoy the next build which will cater towards your personal preferences. Again, thank you."

 

[mimgrim]

However, shorthop honestly isn't that crucial when fighting

Wat.

10wats.

 

[Foo]

"Thank you for the feedback, loyal consumer. Your input shall be taken into consideration and we hope you'll enjoy the next build which will cater towards your personal preferences. Again, thank you."

Before I say anything, your post came off as a sarcastic way of shrugging off everything I said. If this wasn't the case, ignore the below.

This isn't simply my "personal preference." The first 3 would almost inherently improve the game by making it less clunky, with no downsides. The only reason I could see to NOT implement them is limitations of brawl hacking. Allowing players to choose to bind shorthop would help make the controls more fluid players who use it and would have absolutely no effect on the players that choose not to use it. As for the grab button shielding, it is completely and utterly pointless unless they are trying to add lightshielding back. Trying to fix stupid moves as well as overpowered characters is something that I feel would make the game better for everyone, not just me. The one with zero-suit was more of a joke than anything.

If this post was solely my preference, I'd nerf mario into the ground, remove shine, remove lucario's cancelling mechanic, make samus missile canceling super easy, nerf ness into the ground and remove wavedashing (learning to do it in games is frustrating). However, I am not just trying to bend the game to my whim, I'm trying to offer suggestions that would make it a stronger title.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Wat.

10wats.

I've realized it's my mains really. They find no benefit in it.

 

[mimgrim]

I've realized it's my mains really. They find no benefit in it.

Wat.

20wats.

Every character finds benefit from short hops. Like seriously.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Wat.

20wats.

Nevermind. Clearly I'm not understanding what you don't understand about my understanding.

 

[mimgrim]

Nevermind. Clearly I'm not understanding what you don't understand about my understanding.

Every character finds benefits for short hops. Even your mains.

SHFFL alone makes this the case. To say they receive no benefit from it is completely erroneous. Short hopping is essential for every character to have on a competitive level, even your main.

Ness and Mewtwo make even greater use of short hops then normal because of their DJC. Ness also like to SHFFL Fair.

 

[Sour Supreme]

Every character finds benefits for short hops. Even your mains.

SHFFL alone makes this the case. To say they receive no benefit from it is completely erroneous. Short hopping is essential for every character to have on a competitive level, even your main.

Ness and Mewtwo make even greater use of short hops then normal because of their DJC. Ness also like to SHFFL Fair.

O_O Next time I play I'll pay attention. Either I've been using short hop instinctively or I'm missing out.

Thank you for explaining.

 

[Chevy]

The grab button is just a macro of attack and shield. Whenever you shield it's because you pressed the button a little too early out of whatever action you were taking. This caused the grab button to only register the shield half of it's macro, thus the accidental shielding. It is only tangentially related to light-shielding. I had the same problem for the longest time, you just need to learn when you're free to grab. When in doubt, just shield-grab.

 

[9bit]

1. Bind shorthop to a button: I would legitimately spend good money for this feature, lol. The difference between a shorthop input and normal jump input is really really small. I tried binding jump to R and pressing r halfway down, but that still did a normal jump. I get the need for high skill cap mechanics, but I don't see the point of making the ability to gently press a button skill. I'm not proposing removing the current jump mechanic, just adding in "shorthop" into the list of bind-able controls.

I think you may be having difficulty with this tech because you're not doing it right. Initiating a short hop is not about gently or halfway pressing a button, it's about quickly releasing a button. You can mash the jump button as hard as you want, but in order to short hop you have to let go of it quickly. What matters is the amount of time the button is depressed. The timing is different for different characters, some are harder than others.

2. Shielding with the grab button. It is really frustrating to shield when you are going for a grab. I know that I can shield grab with L+A, but I find myself shielding when I grab fairly often. Say, I roll past a bowser forward smash, then walk up and hit R (my binding) to grab. Half the time I shield, half the time I grab, it's really annoying. I know in melee, there was light shielding, but I don't think that's in PM.

Like Chevy said, in Smash games the grab button is simply a combination of shield+A, so if you find yourself shielding when pushing your grab button it means you probably pushed it too early. It's a matter of learning the timing.

3. Samus selecting freeze in character select. It's silly that samus players who prefer ice have to have find time to do a taint to switch, when it could be selected in character select like how you switched between sheik and zelda in brawl.

I'd like this too.

4. A fix to stupid moves: There are a few really dumb moves in this game (like in any smash game) that could use a tweak. For example, charzard's neutral b. It is almost completely useless in normal situations, but can rack up a free 200% off stage against certain characters. I'm not even saying it's OP, it's just really really dumb and broken. I would love to see it replaced with a more ususable move that couldn't be abused (i.e. same animation, faster cast, more knockback/damage but cannot be held down.) Other examples of stupid moves imo are Ness side-b, Mario's frame two downsmash and any guaranteed chain grab that lasts for more than a few grabs. Most characters feel pretty balanced, so I think any change to most characters with dumb moves should receive a compensating buff.

A lot of the moves you bring up here can be countered by good DI and Smash DI. I do sorta agree with you to an extent, but I don't really find any of those moves to be all that dumb, honestly. They all have ways to avoid them for the most part if you plan ahead or know that you need to watch out for them. Certainly I think there are stronger or more centralizing moves in the game (like certain Shines, lasers, and up-smashes *cough*).

5. I want Zero Suits side-b from brawl back: I know I'm wrong, I know it's not best for the game or the character, I know you can do sick combos out of her current side-b and I know it doesn't objectively make sense, but I WANT IT.

This one I can't comment on because I don't remember what Samus' side-b from Brawl is xD

 

[mimgrim]

This one I can't comment on because I don't remember what Samus' side-b from Brawl is xD

It's the same visually. But in Brawl it was use as a kill move that required good spacing compared to how it is now used more for starting/extending combos.

 

[Mera Mera]

Stuff in OP

1. Just so you know, short hop is not done by "gently" pressing jump, it's done by releasing the jump button before jumpsquat ends (the animation your character makes when you leave the ground). Try pressing and releasing quickly and see if that helps your consistency.

2. I completely agree here. That said, there is a way to avoid this for the time being and/or if this is never changed. If you tilt your joystick slightly in the direction you intend to grab (so left/right) when you hit the grab button, then you will always grab and never shield.

3. This would be good. Agreed.

4. As a Charizard main, I agree. While I like that neutral B screws over fast spacies off stage, since those are pretty hard matchups as is, the move is kinda lame. Also Mario'd d-smash is really absurd, but partially because he gets pushed so far away when he hits a shield, thus being pretty safe on shield. I heard that this pushback from hitting shields is gonna get fixed on all moves. So that should help.

5. To each their own. I like the PM one personally.

@ Sour Supreme short hop is definitely needed for all characters. Admittedly you can replace short hop with djc fairly often with characters that can djc, but it's still good to be able to approach near the ground (to be ready to L-cancel) but also not have lost your second jump (in case you get hit off stage).

Edit: ninja'd by 9biit on the first #1 response

 

[Foo]

Oh, I'll try out releasing the buttong more quickly, that may help a lot. I still think it should be bindable to a button, but this may make it much much less of an issue for me.

The grab button is just a macro of attack and shield. Whenever you shield it's because you pressed the button a little too early out of whatever action you were taking. This caused the grab button to only register the shield half of it's macro, thus the accidental shielding. It is only tangentially related to light-shielding. I had the same problem for the longest time, you just need to learn when you're free to grab. When in doubt, just shield-grab.

Just because it's a macro of grab and shield doesn't excuse it not working. Sometimes as Zamus, I roll backwards fire a laser then hit grab, only to shield. I believe that if you shield/roll/spot dodge and then don't move, you're grab input will be a shield. I could be wrong, but that's the way it feels.

A lot of the moves you bring up here can be countered by good DI and Smash DI. I do sorta agree with you to an extent, but I don't really find any of those moves to be all that dumb, honestly. They all have ways to avoid them for the most part if you plan ahead or know that you need to watch out for them. Certainly I think there are stronger or more centralizing moves in the game (like certain Shines, lasers, and up-smashes *cough*).


This one I can't comment on because I don't remember what Samus' side-b from Brawl is xD

You can DI out of ness fire, sorta. You need super good DI and the correct weight to take little damage from it. Or you can roll out of shield on frame 1. Even if you do the normal DI out of it, it's incredibly punishing. For players that don't have stellar DI, it's ridiculously OP. I know that catering to casuals is bad, but you shouldn't have to be pro to avoid 24% and a 3 second stun. I think ness could really use a buff elsewhere, but PK fire is just reedonkulous. As for charizard nuetral B, you can't DI out of it until like 200% if you are one of the characters that cannot sweet spot ledge/tether/have some other weird option. Again, not saying it's OP, but it's ********. I didn't mention spaci- *cough* I mean, the shines, lasers and up-smashes of no characters in particular love them so much. Especially the melee fanboy club. Mario downsmash is just OP, though lol. As for the guaranteed chain grabs. Guaranteed means you CANNOT DI or tech out of them. If they don't drop it, you are stuck there until you are high enough %

As for Zamus side-b, it was a kill move in brawl. (may have had more range, but idk). It's frustrating to get people to high percentages, land a side B and they DI out of bair range. All I can think is "If this was brawl, you'd be dead as !@#$. Again, not a serious suggestion, but I and I alone would like to see it xD

 

[Chevy]

Just because it's a macro of grab and shield doesn't excuse it not working. Sometimes as Zamus, I roll backwards fire a laser then hit grab, only to shield. I believe that if you shield/roll/spot dodge and then don't move, you're grab input will be a shield. I could be wrong, but that's the way it feels.

I was just explaining why it happens. Given the nature of how grab works, it would most likely be very difficult to change. And with this knowledge you can work around the annoyance. I pretty much never accidentally shield anymore, you just have learn the timing.

 

[Shadic]

I am liking project M a lot, far more than any of the other smashbros games, but there are several things that really irritate me which I would love to see patched. These are mostly quality of life changes, but some of them have balance implications as well.

Merged this with the "Ideal 4.0" thread.

 

[Plebeian]

Give Marth's sword sweetspot sound and I'm happy...


actually, sound design overall could use some fixes but I think that's difficult and maybe not always very useful

 

[Hitzel]

I'd love a way to play online on the wii system after nintendo shuts it down in may

Maybe a "system link" mod that makes Brawl compatible with XBConnect or something?

 

[MoRkY]

I'd love to see Skull Kid, and the HM based Pokemon Trainer.