Social The Hero of Winds - Toon Link in Smash Ultimate!

Joined
Oct 31, 2018
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72
#81
Just a question for people with the game. Can TL still catch bombs by throwing backwards midair and using an aerial? I haven't seen anyone so much as try it.
 

<^¥^> Fox

Smash Rookie
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Feb 20, 2016
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#82
I have a lot of problems with Toon Link this time around. They changed him so much and other mechanics that now bomb combos are very different - if they are able to be done at all. For example - since there isn’t any jump canceling (which has been there since Melee or maybe even N64?) you can’t throw the bombs forward without having lag. Very annoying. Unless there is a work around for jump canceling throwing? Anyone? This is true for any character.

Also, when you grab the ledge with Toon Link with the hookshot, before you could push A while dangling to come up quickly and attack without lag, up on control stick to just come up and hang on edge, or X to come up and jump without lag. Now all you can do is come up to edge to hang there! Very limiting compared to Smash 4. True for Young Link as well and also probably for any character that can grab the edge with an attack like the hookshot (Samus).

Does anyone know if there are work arounds for Toon Link that can still make him as good as before in these aspects? Because to me it seems like they seriously limited him :(
 
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KT Kasrani

Smash Champion
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#83
I'm finding toon link to be very fun and good. I feel he has a lot more kill options now. Grounded upb kills now and aerial upb is a good mix up kill option. Boomerang is better now at comboing into an aerial. Zair at the ledge to fall off fair is a real combo. I'm liking his new fsmash also.
 

ILJ

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#84
Toon link received damage buffs which is good
Bomb to fsmash does like 23%.
Zair is better imo
Alot to say , alot to research guys
 

Zoneyboi

Smash Rookie
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#85
I really like Toon Link as a character design but as a less attuned player I'm having trouble justifying playing him over Young Link, were I to choose either. I especially dislike his dair and in general his aerials feel less reliable to me.
 
Joined
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#86
I really like Toon Link as a character design but as a less attuned player I'm having trouble justifying playing him over Young Link, were I to choose either. I especially dislike his dair and in general his aerials feel less reliable to me.
I don't have the game yet, so this is just from watching matches, but Toon Link seems like a different animal than Young Link. TL's projectiles are really good at limiting opponents' options and setting up for his stubbier aerials. He also, from what I can tell, has faster ground moves than YL (again, stubbier), which helps in the combo department. I'm not sure how you like to play, so it's very possible Young Link suits you more. He does seem to have better pressure with his moves. Toon Link is probably the more defensive of the two, using projectiles as a way to limit how his opponent can move as they approach rather than as long-ranged offensive tools. From my experience, TL lands a lot of his aerials by creating situations that make using them less risky. You're totally right about dair, though. It's bad.

I was watching Mew2king play Ryo, and he played TL in one match against Ike. It hurt to watch, tbh. He tried to play him like a tiny child Marth and only used projectiles a few times point blank or at full screen, where they had no chance of hitting: basically the opposite of what TL is good at. Just goes to show that people have characters that really don't click with them, but we have over 70, so that's cool.
 

Substitution

Deacon Blues
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#87
The way I separate the two is this:
Young Link is the closer of the two to being the "light but faster" Link. Like he fulfills pretty much what was his role in Melee. Honestly though I'd say he's the Link you'd go to if you don't like the new Link, as he pretty much retains the essence of Melee/4 Adult Link if you don't mind the trade off in power.
Toon Link is "okay what if Link but actually a zoner". Like Link's/Young Link's offensive prowess has been traded off for faster pokes and a solid neutral. He's pretty much the character you play if you really, really enjoyed Link's projectiles and pokes because that's like the bread and butter of Toon Link.

In general though it just all depends on who you're looking for. The thing about the two is you can't play Young Link like Toon Link, or Toon Link like Adult Link and etc. Like I myself play Toon Link because I prefer having that neutral and poking the opponent over combing. And in that regard I can't really say whether one is superior over another because, ironically despite the two being based on the same character, the two fill different niches.
 

Zahntavier

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#88
Just a question for people with the game. Can TL still catch bombs by throwing backwards midair and using an aerial? I haven't seen anyone so much as try it.
Yes. It feels like there are less frames to regrab the bomb, but It works.

You can cancel the lag after a dash into a forward bomb throw, ive done it by tilting down or back and using c-stick for the throw (any direction really), but there are ways to do it without c stick. Not sure if there is as simple a way as in previous game.

I have not figured out dash cancelled throws into a re-grab, dont know if its possible.
UPDATE
I was able to achieve something akin to the jump-canceled throw into a regrab with a dash attack, from WiiU smash

I set C-stick to tilt
Dash forward—quick tilt back—C-stick forward throw bomb—dash forward—attack

I really hope there’s a way to achieve this without using C stick on tilt’s or C stick at all.
If feels pretty hard to naturally work it in to my flow, and a lot of thumb waggling
 
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Joined
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#89
Cool. It makes sense that bomb tricks would be nerfed a bit, since Nintendo did the same to most characters' best options. As long as Toon Link has some fun stuff to use, I'm happy. I'm itching to try him out. I actually was going to drop him when smash 4 came out because I didn't like what he lost from brawl, but between his new bomb mechanics and a natural affinity to him that never went away, I picked him up again and really enjoyed what his new iteration had to offer. Now, in Ultimate, he looks like he is a hybrid of Brawl and 4 without getting too nutty in either direction. And I'm okay with that.

I am curious about how much catching items with tilts changes things. If bomb throwing worked like it did in 4, I could see some really oppressive stuff, like throw -> catch with utilt -> throw -> just about anything if you're close enough for utilt to hit. Probably doesn't work, but nice to think about.
 
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#93
I'm really loyal to Toon Link, and i've been playing both TL and Young Link. I've been gravitating more to Young Link though due to his more ambush style gameplay. Do you guys think the loss of Toon Links second hit in his F-smash will limit mix up options?
 

Fluorescent

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#94
I'm really loyal to Toon Link, and i've been playing both TL and Young Link. I've been gravitating more to Young Link though due to his more ambush style gameplay. Do you guys think the loss of Toon Links second hit in his F-smash will limit mix up options?
Nah, I honestly think his f-smash got buff by turning into a 1-hit instead of a 2-hit. It's true he lost the mix-up for that but in all honesty fsmash1 was punishable on shield and wasn't a reliable kill move at high percents in smash4 (even with that one patch that made it 'reliably' link more) reducing the mixup value imo.
 
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#96
So, Zero's calling Toon Link the worst Link... again. All because he's not the best of the three in terms of killing power, mobility, combo potential, or future potential for growth. I'm pretty sure all of that is debatable depending on what you value. It just irks me that top players all refuse to look at Toon Link fairly and spout stuff that isn't even true. You can tell me that Toon Link gets blown up the most in disadvantage, sure, but if you say he has no throw combos, then that just tell me you haven't tried very hard.

Sorry if I'm being harsh, I just needed to get that off my chest.
 
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#97
So, Zero's calling Toon Link the worst Link... again. All because he's not the best of the three in terms of killing power, mobility, combo potential, or future potential for growth. I'm pretty sure all of that is debatable depending on what you value. It just irks me that top players all refuse to look at Toon Link fairly and spout stuff that isn't even true. You can tell me that Toon Link gets blown up the most in disadvantage, sure, but if you say he has no throw combos, then that just tell me you haven't tried very hard.

Sorry if I'm being harsh, I just needed to get that off my chest.
Yeah Its clear that people are looking at Toon Link from a very biased perspective. I haven't seen much videos of people even trying to look further into the character and working on guides and combos. Especially compared to the other Links.

The most bizzare thing is that I've never seen people treat any other characters who have other characters with a variation to their moveset with such a dismissive attitude like that. Such as the Starfox characters, Mario's or even the Marth's.

I really hope this behaviour won't end up ruining Toon Link's potential and growth as a character. He's definitely one of the most, if not, the most underrated characters in the roster.
 
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Scamper52596

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#98
I also feel that Toon Link is pretty underrated. ZeRo didn't even mention his fantastic Grounded Up Special. XD
Regardless, I'm still sticking with the character because he's by far the character I have the most fun playing. And who knows? Maybe Toon Link will receive a buff or two down the line due to this kind of reception he's been getting among the Smash players with the loudest voices. All he really needs in my opinion is a more reliable throw combo and some slightly faster frame data here or there.
 
Joined
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#99
I should be fair here, now that I've had some time away. Toon Link is a complex character. I don't think his strengths are quite as evident if you haven't put the time into him or seen others who have put the time in. Most Toon Link mains I've seen from streamed tournaments seem to rely on their ability to play the game without taking the character to the lab. So I guess if people were going off of those players, they would assume that Toon Link is overly reliant on things that people overuse when there are other options that don't see the light of day. Listening to commentators is amusing because of that. They tend to go in thinking he can't do much and say "he can do that?" any time a player does anything besides up-tilt or projectiles.

I'm also guessing his wonky mix of projectiles and a stubby sword could be off-putting to a lot of people. It works well, but the idea isn't as simple as throwing projectiles and punching people when they get too close (you can do that, but it won't get you that far). When people say Young Link is super technical and hard to play well, you know they're not going to want to put the time in to figure Toon Link out.
 
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UserKev

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Toon Link is honestly Young Link's replacement. Toon Link is unique and distinctive, he feels the closest to a Zelda newcomer. He's a heavy hitter and very fun.
 
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