Lord Viper
SS Rank
Aw man, why nobody asked any Ice Climber question. 
Oh well, is Ice Climbers better or the same in Brawl?
Oh well, is Ice Climbers better or the same in Brawl?
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The good and bad characters at this point (cast spoilers)
- Thread starter Cronos_Rainbow
- Start date
Kirby Redux
Smash Journeyman
ok, thanks CR
Commander_cool
Smash Rookie
This may have all ready been asked but can falco/fox still cancel their phantasm with b mid way through?
kilroy
Smash Journeyman
thanks for taking the time to write this stuff up, CR.
since roy is out, who are you eyeing for a potential main?
you comment often on Brawl being balanced. could you elaborate on that a bit. do you consider every character to be viable, even against a good Marth?
since roy is out, who are you eyeing for a potential main?
you comment often on Brawl being balanced. could you elaborate on that a bit. do you consider every character to be viable, even against a good Marth?
Cronos_Rainbow
Smash Champion
Fox, Falco and Wolf can all cancel the across B.
Ice Climbers are better. The Belay leaves them at a similar height rather than sacrificing the second for the first. They seems to be stronger in general but not hugely.
After playing with Lucario it seems that some of his shortcomings can be overcome. he has an inability to short hop at a reasonable height, though his dair stops all air momentum. Using this at the start of a jump lets you approach from a low air height in some way at least. It can also work for when knocked back - quite useful. Forward B has an application similar to Koopa Claw. Useful off the edge more than anything IMO.
Dedede: Giving him more playtime also it seems the key to using him is to avoid the lack-luster attacks such as dash attack. Instead of dash attack use something like shff nair which has little landing lag and knock back - so makes a good set-up. His recovery issues still remain - haven't found a way around that yet.
I'm using Ike ZSS and Lucas. I'll no doubt playing everyone in time, though Wolf, Snake, Lucario and Olimar are next up
The way the mechanics hold up so far, yes any character can beat a good Marth IMO - it's more a matter of a solid mental game and understanding of your character strengths and flaws than technical prowess this time around I feel (oh and luck - stupid falling over randomly...only thing I don't like so far)
Ice Climbers are better. The Belay leaves them at a similar height rather than sacrificing the second for the first. They seems to be stronger in general but not hugely.
After playing with Lucario it seems that some of his shortcomings can be overcome. he has an inability to short hop at a reasonable height, though his dair stops all air momentum. Using this at the start of a jump lets you approach from a low air height in some way at least. It can also work for when knocked back - quite useful. Forward B has an application similar to Koopa Claw. Useful off the edge more than anything IMO.
Dedede: Giving him more playtime also it seems the key to using him is to avoid the lack-luster attacks such as dash attack. Instead of dash attack use something like shff nair which has little landing lag and knock back - so makes a good set-up. His recovery issues still remain - haven't found a way around that yet.
I'm using Ike ZSS and Lucas. I'll no doubt playing everyone in time, though Wolf, Snake, Lucario and Olimar are next up
The way the mechanics hold up so far, yes any character can beat a good Marth IMO - it's more a matter of a solid mental game and understanding of your character strengths and flaws than technical prowess this time around I feel (oh and luck - stupid falling over randomly...only thing I don't like so far)
Doomgaze
Smash Apprentice
Just another input on small balls.
Insanely unbalanced item. It's a sure win for certain characters, and for others it just plain sucks. We tried it a few matches and then toggled them off, so I'm pretty sure they will be off for tournies as well.
Insanely unbalanced item. It's a sure win for certain characters, and for others it just plain sucks. We tried it a few matches and then toggled them off, so I'm pretty sure they will be off for tournies as well.
EmperorCesar
Smash Apprentice
I'd have to say that so far Snake looks terrible. His projectiles are useless, almost all of his moves have lag before and after the attack... he has all the makings of a low tier. **** shame...
for shaz: duster looks kinda like a cowboy with a moustache and should be in a similar style to lucas (since both from MOTHER3)
shaz has mostly given his impressions of stuff so i'll say what i picked up on from my little bit of playing. (mostly pit and robot related in this post)
PIT:
pit's mirror shield defends against all attacks from the front and will reflect back projectiles that hit it. it also seemed to turn the opponent around when they struck it in melee range (or so it seemed with ike). it can be aimed forward or with a slightly forward and up facing, when ike was right next to me and did a smash i think it clipped behind me a few times because of his range. while this move can be held for quite a while it cannot be held endlessly as i was trying to use it vs ikes charged fwd B and after a decent while my shield went down despite me still holding down the B button and i copped the fwd B from ike.
pit's angel ring can go on forever if you mash B after using it, he moves forward a decent bit on the ground but moves forward less if done aerially. this also reflects projectiles :3
pit's wings of icarus are great for maneuvering about and you can choose to do whatever out of them.
and the arrows fire out very fast and are good for annoying people with.
his finishers from what i could tell seem to be: first hit but not second of his d-smash, second hit but not first of his f-smash, and bair. there's probably more but i didn't play enough to tell.
ROBOT:
robot is awesome cool, seems pretty strong but mostly he is just plain awesome. his symbol is a spinning top.
his upB has great distance, his airs that use his thruster as an attack affect his aerial momentum, he attacks with thrusters and spinning arms mostly.
his B is a laser which charges up over time (as shaz mentioned earlier it's like wario waft except much quicker in charging) which you can tell when is fully charged due to a little light on his head, it can be aimed in one of three directions and it bounces off of walls and the ground. it has pretty decent knockback when fully charged and it pierces through your opponents so therefore it can hit multiple people pretty well on flat stage like FD. the 3 directions it can be shot are straight forward, forward but slightly tilted down, and forward but slightly tilted up.
his fwd B makes him move forward with arms spinning out wildly and you can control the tilt on his arms with the analog stick, by mashing B he will keep spinning a bit longer. the ability to control the tilt of this move makes him resemble a spinning top himself. this can be used as a recovery.
his dwn B is a spinning top he can charge up and throw out. it seemed to do pretty decent damage and throws out pretty fast. once it hits into a player it bounces off and sits on the stage which causes other players going near it to be damaged by it (i think, i recall caotic getting hit by one that was out) robot can also pick it up and rethrow it at someone. once one is on the stage you can't throw out another, you have to either wait for the first to disappear once it stops spinning, or pick up the first and throw it off the stage so you can charge up a second to be ready in wait to be thrown as you like.
his aerials seem pretty wide and easy to connect with and he's pretty floaty for some reason. his smashes are good.
i'll post more soon if people like this sort of info too.
*corrected because of typo*
shaz has mostly given his impressions of stuff so i'll say what i picked up on from my little bit of playing. (mostly pit and robot related in this post)
PIT:
pit's mirror shield defends against all attacks from the front and will reflect back projectiles that hit it. it also seemed to turn the opponent around when they struck it in melee range (or so it seemed with ike). it can be aimed forward or with a slightly forward and up facing, when ike was right next to me and did a smash i think it clipped behind me a few times because of his range. while this move can be held for quite a while it cannot be held endlessly as i was trying to use it vs ikes charged fwd B and after a decent while my shield went down despite me still holding down the B button and i copped the fwd B from ike.
pit's angel ring can go on forever if you mash B after using it, he moves forward a decent bit on the ground but moves forward less if done aerially. this also reflects projectiles :3
pit's wings of icarus are great for maneuvering about and you can choose to do whatever out of them.
and the arrows fire out very fast and are good for annoying people with.
his finishers from what i could tell seem to be: first hit but not second of his d-smash, second hit but not first of his f-smash, and bair. there's probably more but i didn't play enough to tell.
ROBOT:
robot is awesome cool, seems pretty strong but mostly he is just plain awesome. his symbol is a spinning top.
his upB has great distance, his airs that use his thruster as an attack affect his aerial momentum, he attacks with thrusters and spinning arms mostly.
his B is a laser which charges up over time (as shaz mentioned earlier it's like wario waft except much quicker in charging) which you can tell when is fully charged due to a little light on his head, it can be aimed in one of three directions and it bounces off of walls and the ground. it has pretty decent knockback when fully charged and it pierces through your opponents so therefore it can hit multiple people pretty well on flat stage like FD. the 3 directions it can be shot are straight forward, forward but slightly tilted down, and forward but slightly tilted up.
his fwd B makes him move forward with arms spinning out wildly and you can control the tilt on his arms with the analog stick, by mashing B he will keep spinning a bit longer. the ability to control the tilt of this move makes him resemble a spinning top himself. this can be used as a recovery.
his dwn B is a spinning top he can charge up and throw out. it seemed to do pretty decent damage and throws out pretty fast. once it hits into a player it bounces off and sits on the stage which causes other players going near it to be damaged by it (i think, i recall caotic getting hit by one that was out) robot can also pick it up and rethrow it at someone. once one is on the stage you can't throw out another, you have to either wait for the first to disappear once it stops spinning, or pick up the first and throw it off the stage so you can charge up a second to be ready in wait to be thrown as you like.
his aerials seem pretty wide and easy to connect with and he's pretty floaty for some reason. his smashes are good.
i'll post more soon if people like this sort of info too.
*corrected because of typo*
Cronos_Rainbow
Smash Champion
Snake does a lot better running away than he does charging in. Leave a mine behind, claymore, countdown the fuse on a grenade, let the explosions commence. Follow it up with a nakita rocket as they go airborne, and jump in with a fair. Poor Snake though....so awkward xD
Suntan Luigi
Smash Lord
Stop being sexist shaz. We all know why you like to play with ZSS and not snake.
EmperorCesar
Smash Apprentice
I just honestly cant see the usefulness in his projectiles and explosives. This leaves him to use his air game as an alternative, which also sucks. I'm sure you have better judgment than I, since you actually have the game, but this is what I have gathered from the multiple vids I have seen:
----------------------
Projectiles and Explosives
Grenade: Useless. You can change the range of the throw, and once thrown if flies past the target, doing almost no damage, and exploding several seconds later. NOBODY will get hit by these, not even lvl 1 computers.
C4: If you can only activate it by doing that stupid animation of Snake pulling out the remote, this move is also utterly useless. Who is going to fall for this trick if Snake is giving you a huge warning by doing a laggy animation of him clicking the remote? Unless there is someway to activate the C4 without start up lag, this item is utterly useless.
Claymore: You are gambling with this move. You can just as easily get yourself caught in your own trap. Stupid move.
Nikita (Remote Missle): Why the hell did they make it different from the Metal Gear games? This projectile blows as well. It can be easily dodged since the **** thing moves so incredibly slow while turning, but the thing that bugs the hell out of me is the way it just falls straight down when you stop controlling it. Why did they decide to do this? Why doesn't it just keep going in the direction you left it in, like in the MGS games? The only use this weapon seems to have is dropping missiles to edge guard, but at that point edgehoging seems more practical. Another near useless move.
UpSmash Rocket thing: Also seems useless. If you don't charge it, the explosive you launch has almost no vertical distance covered and no power. Also, the lag. Lots of lag. Since this move launches one small projectile up, it also seems very predictable and easy to avoid. Doesn't look useful either.
DownSmash Rocket: Maybe the best of all the explosives, still not very good. Tons of knockback, but start up lag and ending lag make this a mediocre move.
--------------------------------
As for his air game, other than his down air, all of his air attacks look ****ty, and the fact that they all have nasty landing lag doesn't help. I'm really convinced that Snake is destined for low/bottom tier.
_Slick_
Smash Ace
*cough*
No.
No.
Cronos_Rainbow
Smash Champion
The rocket is his forward smash. It has a great deal of power to it and a large radius. Downsmash buries the mine, and its a trap - works well to force an opponent into the air where they can be upsmashed. The downB is a remote c4 bomb that has a nice radius and great power. Nakita can be released and followed up by snake with something like a fair or dash. As for grenade, its fuse can be timed by snake, so u can throw it with fractions of a second to spare and have it blow up on them, or toss it behind them where u can knock them over to later. Snake is far from bad, just not particularly easy to utilise.
Sonork
Smash Cadet
I'm guessing Bowser is still pretty bad compared to everyone else? (Why must the slow always suffer ?! ;_;
Cronos_Rainbow
Smash Champion
Bowser: Fair and dair more range. Bair slightly stronger. Fsmash slightly faster. ForwardB grabs them, leaps into the air flipping and lands on them sending them the typical forward and up knockback - strong. Fair should NOT be fast fallen as it will lag if it is, otherwise you can land it in a sh without lagging on landing. Uair is now faster also.
Jellybelly
Smash Ace
Two questions chronos
1) Has there been any evidence of super armour I.E heavy, slow characters like Bowser and DK not flinching during move executions?
2) Does Peaches final smash put people in the air to sleep?
thanks.
1) Has there been any evidence of super armour I.E heavy, slow characters like Bowser and DK not flinching during move executions?
2) Does Peaches final smash put people in the air to sleep?
thanks.
Cronos_Rainbow
Smash Champion
Minimal on super armor. Hard to say so early though.
Yes. Assured kill if they are over the edge.
Yes. Assured kill if they are over the edge.
MatthewK206
Smash Rookie
HAHAHAHAHHA epic lulz were had.
Cronos, could I get a little bit more of an impression on Toon Link? Like, how are his bombs in this game? What's his range like?
If you could, a more extensive impression would be appreciated.
PsychoIncarnate
The Eternal Will of the Swarm
...Well, I heard that Dedede was VERY good...
Bronze
Smash Journeyman
I'd say Dedede is going to be the best heavy character. His weight and multiple jumps means that he can snap to the edge without having to use his up+b, you have to be knocked off pretty far to even have to use his up+b, which on the plus side has massive vertical recovery. Whilst sometimes he falls over on landing, other times he makes a big impact on the ground which may offer some form of protection.
His f-tilt seems pretty good as its quite quick and has massive range, good for shield poke/keep away. 1/2 hits of his jab are probably quite good for same reason. Better than bowser because he has projectile as well. Most of the time they are just the standard red things, but other times you get electricity firing ones, or spike balls. So you will get some flukey KOs/opportunities.
Off his aerials b-air seems by far the most useful, quite quick startup and big range and big power. His dash attack is quite slow and comical, but is practically a KO move if you feel like risking it. D-Smash seems better than the Ike-ish F-Smash. As shown by those Japanese videos he has a good grab with potential for tech chasing/chain throwing.
Hope someone finds that interesting.
His f-tilt seems pretty good as its quite quick and has massive range, good for shield poke/keep away. 1/2 hits of his jab are probably quite good for same reason. Better than bowser because he has projectile as well. Most of the time they are just the standard red things, but other times you get electricity firing ones, or spike balls. So you will get some flukey KOs/opportunities.
Off his aerials b-air seems by far the most useful, quite quick startup and big range and big power. His dash attack is quite slow and comical, but is practically a KO move if you feel like risking it. D-Smash seems better than the Ike-ish F-Smash. As shown by those Japanese videos he has a good grab with potential for tech chasing/chain throwing.
Hope someone finds that interesting.
Cronos_Rainbow
Smash Champion
Toon Link:
Recovery is nice like Young Link. His jumps are both very large also.
He uses a hookshot for grab so has some decent range on grabs.
His boomerang doesn't pull them back like Link. His bombs are very small visually and do decent damage on exploding. They can be thrown a decent length.
His nair is a swipe infront and behind him. This move is good to follow up. His down smash has decent power, as do his other two smashes. Tilts are fast and useful. running speed is awesome - easily one of the fastest. His dair shoots him downward.
Yoshi I feel really used DJC as such a strong part of his game in melee. His UpB isn't a huge bit of distance but it can be used more than once, and stalls the recovery as well as gives some extra distance. No tongue tether sorry.
TO THOSE WHO WISH TO ARGUE FOR DEDEDE:
I have played the game for many hours now. I am quite aware of what Dededes moves are, and how they work. Don't think I haven't been subjected to his 'chain' throw, forward tilt or had to defend against his recovery at all. It's especially bothersome to have someone telling me my opinion (based on actual experience) is wrong based on video footage. Dedede may be your favourite character, and sure he has a good array of moves he can use, but I personally feel he is a lacking character. I've explained the reasoning a few times in this thread - but if you still think I'm wrong please keep it for the Dedede boards where people will seek Dedede specific information. If you have a question though feel free to ask. Thanks in advance.
Recovery is nice like Young Link. His jumps are both very large also.
He uses a hookshot for grab so has some decent range on grabs.
His boomerang doesn't pull them back like Link. His bombs are very small visually and do decent damage on exploding. They can be thrown a decent length.
His nair is a swipe infront and behind him. This move is good to follow up. His down smash has decent power, as do his other two smashes. Tilts are fast and useful. running speed is awesome - easily one of the fastest. His dair shoots him downward.
Yoshi I feel really used DJC as such a strong part of his game in melee. His UpB isn't a huge bit of distance but it can be used more than once, and stalls the recovery as well as gives some extra distance. No tongue tether sorry.
TO THOSE WHO WISH TO ARGUE FOR DEDEDE:
I have played the game for many hours now. I am quite aware of what Dededes moves are, and how they work. Don't think I haven't been subjected to his 'chain' throw, forward tilt or had to defend against his recovery at all. It's especially bothersome to have someone telling me my opinion (based on actual experience) is wrong based on video footage. Dedede may be your favourite character, and sure he has a good array of moves he can use, but I personally feel he is a lacking character. I've explained the reasoning a few times in this thread - but if you still think I'm wrong please keep it for the Dedede boards where people will seek Dedede specific information. If you have a question though feel free to ask. Thanks in advance.
Jellybelly
Smash Ace
How effective is fludd for edge guarding? Does it flinch players?
Also, props for the vgcats avatar.
Also, props for the vgcats avatar.
Cronos_Rainbow
Smash Champion
Fludd doesn't flinch, just pure knockback....not much of it either. It's rather hard to use, and isn't nearly as useful for edge guarding as I'd hoped. It does however put out fires like Fireball projectiles
From what I've seen and come to conclusion about Snake's explosives....
Grenade: It's most powerful use is the fact that you can hold it before throwing. You can toss them into a middle of a fight and be sure at least one person gets hurt, or hold it for two seconds and throw for a sure hit. Also, just like how Link could use his bombs to blow up himself and get an extra triple jump, Snake can use his grenades in the same way just by pulling one out and holding it.
Remote Missile: Biggest weakness is it's slow turning. Use this for long distance edge guarding, or 4 player battles. Sure, it sucks that it doesn't keep going, but you can also take advantage of this by having it fly just over people's heads and dropping it, like your own little baby bomber. But like the grenade, timing.
Up Smash: This one always seemed beastly to me. You can charge it to hit people that are all the way at bubble height. You can tilt it to have it land a little in front or behind you, a great way to surprise people who think you're distracted, and an interesting way to edge guard. Also, it's really a two part attack. When Snake is pulling out the set, anyone in front of him gets hit and popped up, directly into, or very close to, the missile's flight path. If they DI out of the flight path, they still have to do a midair jump or land in a splat, where you can then aim to hit them anyway.
Forward Smash: Snake is a heavy character, so his Forward Smash is just as slow as the other heavies' forward smashes. With that considered, the explosion he creates has surprising range and has a lot of power, which allows it to be used in situations where you'd usually use either a forward or down smash; very versatile. The fact that Snake's tilts alone can kill people is great, and this attack decides to give about double the knockback.
Down Smash: Only for 4 players, really, unless you're awesome and are sure you can knock/throw somebody into this thing. This is a complete surprise move, and it will suck in 1 on 1, as your opponent is always watching you. However, this move is also very good as a bluff, as your grenade and Remote Mine can be hard to see or notice at times.
Remote Mine/Down Special: Just realized I forgot this. This is my favorite of his explosive moves with the Up Smash and Forward Smash coming right behind it. This is the move you use so that people will always be asking, "What the ****? When did he get that there?" This move is your easiest surprise move, but it's weaknesses are pretty much in bright and colorful stages, with no items selected. Places like Shadow Moses and Final Destination are pretty boss, but don't end up Yoshi's stage. If you're in a one on one, this move should only be used in the air, as he then just randomly drops the Mine instead of doing that whole animation, and the same goes for when activating it, unless your opponent has no idea that it's there. But you have to constantly surprise with this move, so use it sparingly. Use it for area control in combination to your grenades and down smash, create feints, and always drop it when your opponent is least expecting, like say during recovery, or while chasing them down. This move might actually be worth getting attacked by your opponent to pull off in some cases by standing (or crawling) over it to hide it. Use your imagination.
Snake in one on one will be very, very hard as it takes the mental wit and patience of a war specialist or chess master. I'm not just throwing those around lightly either. Sakurai probably wanted to capture that war aspect of Snake, with lots of explosives to create funny moments, but also for serious players to create their own little one man war. One thing I must stress is that Snake is not a projectile spammer, and that you must use his fists and kicks a majority of the time. But like other heavies in this game, they're awesome and powerful and you could probably kill people with just those just using basic Smash Bros skill. Oh, and if you time your jump out of your box taunt just right, you can actually hurt people with the box. How awesome is that?
Emperor Cesar, I'm sorry you're disappointed, and it seems mostly like the character didn't end up how you envisioned him. Snake does seem like a really advanced character, just like Sonic, and the really good and tourney Snake players will be few and far between, just like with Sonic. I'm actually pretty glad that Sakurai made these guys powerful and not very beginner friendly, as it ensures you can always show your noob friends suck by using cool, iconic, and extreme playstyle characters.
I'll also say that, despite this detailed analysis, I haven't played the game yet, and instead have just watched hours upon hours of match footage of all types, except for team battles. This includes matches with and without items, and a number of matches that were one on one. Snake does seem like a very hard character to use, but after seeing his moves on the Dojo months ago, he came out just as I had expected and hoped.
The only good thing about this long wait before the NA release is that I get to dissect these characters and find out their speed, playstyles, and how much I'll like them. At this point, I'm going to have to take some notes to remember all of the stuff I've seen this game can do.
Grenade: It's most powerful use is the fact that you can hold it before throwing. You can toss them into a middle of a fight and be sure at least one person gets hurt, or hold it for two seconds and throw for a sure hit. Also, just like how Link could use his bombs to blow up himself and get an extra triple jump, Snake can use his grenades in the same way just by pulling one out and holding it.
Remote Missile: Biggest weakness is it's slow turning. Use this for long distance edge guarding, or 4 player battles. Sure, it sucks that it doesn't keep going, but you can also take advantage of this by having it fly just over people's heads and dropping it, like your own little baby bomber. But like the grenade, timing.
Up Smash: This one always seemed beastly to me. You can charge it to hit people that are all the way at bubble height. You can tilt it to have it land a little in front or behind you, a great way to surprise people who think you're distracted, and an interesting way to edge guard. Also, it's really a two part attack. When Snake is pulling out the set, anyone in front of him gets hit and popped up, directly into, or very close to, the missile's flight path. If they DI out of the flight path, they still have to do a midair jump or land in a splat, where you can then aim to hit them anyway.
Forward Smash: Snake is a heavy character, so his Forward Smash is just as slow as the other heavies' forward smashes. With that considered, the explosion he creates has surprising range and has a lot of power, which allows it to be used in situations where you'd usually use either a forward or down smash; very versatile. The fact that Snake's tilts alone can kill people is great, and this attack decides to give about double the knockback.
Down Smash: Only for 4 players, really, unless you're awesome and are sure you can knock/throw somebody into this thing. This is a complete surprise move, and it will suck in 1 on 1, as your opponent is always watching you. However, this move is also very good as a bluff, as your grenade and Remote Mine can be hard to see or notice at times.
Remote Mine/Down Special: Just realized I forgot this. This is my favorite of his explosive moves with the Up Smash and Forward Smash coming right behind it. This is the move you use so that people will always be asking, "What the ****? When did he get that there?" This move is your easiest surprise move, but it's weaknesses are pretty much in bright and colorful stages, with no items selected. Places like Shadow Moses and Final Destination are pretty boss, but don't end up Yoshi's stage. If you're in a one on one, this move should only be used in the air, as he then just randomly drops the Mine instead of doing that whole animation, and the same goes for when activating it, unless your opponent has no idea that it's there. But you have to constantly surprise with this move, so use it sparingly. Use it for area control in combination to your grenades and down smash, create feints, and always drop it when your opponent is least expecting, like say during recovery, or while chasing them down. This move might actually be worth getting attacked by your opponent to pull off in some cases by standing (or crawling) over it to hide it. Use your imagination.
Snake in one on one will be very, very hard as it takes the mental wit and patience of a war specialist or chess master. I'm not just throwing those around lightly either. Sakurai probably wanted to capture that war aspect of Snake, with lots of explosives to create funny moments, but also for serious players to create their own little one man war. One thing I must stress is that Snake is not a projectile spammer, and that you must use his fists and kicks a majority of the time. But like other heavies in this game, they're awesome and powerful and you could probably kill people with just those just using basic Smash Bros skill. Oh, and if you time your jump out of your box taunt just right, you can actually hurt people with the box. How awesome is that?
Emperor Cesar, I'm sorry you're disappointed, and it seems mostly like the character didn't end up how you envisioned him. Snake does seem like a really advanced character, just like Sonic, and the really good and tourney Snake players will be few and far between, just like with Sonic. I'm actually pretty glad that Sakurai made these guys powerful and not very beginner friendly, as it ensures you can always show your noob friends suck by using cool, iconic, and extreme playstyle characters.
I'll also say that, despite this detailed analysis, I haven't played the game yet, and instead have just watched hours upon hours of match footage of all types, except for team battles. This includes matches with and without items, and a number of matches that were one on one. Snake does seem like a very hard character to use, but after seeing his moves on the Dojo months ago, he came out just as I had expected and hoped.
The only good thing about this long wait before the NA release is that I get to dissect these characters and find out their speed, playstyles, and how much I'll like them. At this point, I'm going to have to take some notes to remember all of the stuff I've seen this game can do.
Metroid_01
Smash Journeyman
You have no idea what you are talking about. With the proper mindgames and such, Ike is a deadly force. He is really good.
Cronos_Rainbow
Smash Champion
Not mixed up - ZSS is good at dealing damage and control. Ike is a powerhouse with longevity. Dedede isn't what I thought he was going to be.
I unlocked Sonic via vs matches. Comes pretty early.
Sonic: B moves are pretty average. Recovery is godly huge. Side B can be used to recover but it;s nothing awesome. DownB is like roll out style. Down tilt is a medium speed sweep that moves Sonic forward slightly - can be spammed to cross the stage with it lol. His dash is amongst the best in the game IMO along with Diddy and Wolf for instance. Down smash is a ball that moves side to side (was it ever like Marios in the earlier stages?) All airs except down are viable in short hop. Throws are all decent, though his grab kind of uses his speed to make it awesome.
I'm going to head to bed now - Feel free to leave questions and Ill get back to them.
I unlocked Sonic via vs matches. Comes pretty early.
Sonic: B moves are pretty average. Recovery is godly huge. Side B can be used to recover but it;s nothing awesome. DownB is like roll out style. Down tilt is a medium speed sweep that moves Sonic forward slightly - can be spammed to cross the stage with it lol. His dash is amongst the best in the game IMO along with Diddy and Wolf for instance. Down smash is a ball that moves side to side (was it ever like Marios in the earlier stages?) All airs except down are viable in short hop. Throws are all decent, though his grab kind of uses his speed to make it awesome.
I'm going to head to bed now - Feel free to leave questions and Ill get back to them.
SolidSonic
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2007
- Messages
- 652
Well I don't know about that... but he certainly isn't what I expected...
For someone who is ninja like and agile in the MGS games, he sure is "clunky" in Smash Bros. Perhaps Sakurai should give one of the Metal Gear games another play through.
In addendum to my earlier post: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBYv6tqZEnc
Also, I did make one mistake. I thought your Forward Smash rocket had a large enough explosion to hit behind you. You still can use it as a replacement Down Smash, you'll just join Lucas and old vet Mewtwo in the cast with single direction Down(forward) Smashes.
Edit: In addendum to this post: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E35CkSItW6E
Not as good as the first, but this guy plays just as I imagined Snake to be played.
Also, I did make one mistake. I thought your Forward Smash rocket had a large enough explosion to hit behind you. You still can use it as a replacement Down Smash, you'll just join Lucas and old vet Mewtwo in the cast with single direction Down(forward) Smashes.
Edit: In addendum to this post: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E35CkSItW6E
Not as good as the first, but this guy plays just as I imagined Snake to be played.
Bronze
Smash Journeyman
Just to say I have played the game, and have been playing Dedede probably more than any character. I'm not saying he's going to be right at the top or anything. Just that soley by having a projectile, a good grab range and the ability to WoP-style back airs with massive range he's probably going to be better than Bowser/Ganon/DK/Wario - basically the other heavy weights.
Generally I'd also say that all the top players in Melee will be back for more. Marth still ***** with his swords range. Also dashdance grab is workable with him still. Shiek's d-throw seems useful-ish for leading into stuff, still has the quick tilts even if opponents can attack through them at lower damage. Can also work the dashdance grab and is as lag free as ever. Peach still has the recovery, turnips to throw and can float aerials. Fox is generally quick and un-laggy.
Generally I'd also say that all the top players in Melee will be back for more. Marth still ***** with his swords range. Also dashdance grab is workable with him still. Shiek's d-throw seems useful-ish for leading into stuff, still has the quick tilts even if opponents can attack through them at lower damage. Can also work the dashdance grab and is as lag free as ever. Peach still has the recovery, turnips to throw and can float aerials. Fox is generally quick and un-laggy.
Cronos_Rainbow
Smash Champion
Yeah - Ike was mad fast in PoR also - but obviously not in smash.
I agree Dedede has a fair chunk of potential - more so than Bowser DK and Gdorf most likely.....Wario I think is possibly a little better though.....Dededes bair and forward smash range are too good to look over though. I'm still disappointed by a few of his moves however :\.
I agree Dedede has a fair chunk of potential - more so than Bowser DK and Gdorf most likely.....Wario I think is possibly a little better though.....Dededes bair and forward smash range are too good to look over though. I'm still disappointed by a few of his moves however :\.
Norm
Smash Lord
I\'ve read a few different articals on what people think of the game i think it\'s going to come down to personal prefereance i\'ve read reviews where people love dedede love snake hate pit so i think i\'m going to have to wait for the game to come out to find out whom i really like.