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The Fox Video Critique Thread

AprilShaw

aka Logan
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
1,578
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Stolen from the Marth boards:

Time to keep everything all in one place. Getting sick of seeing new threads every waking moment.

Please post a Reference Code for us to respond to your videos and simply hit CTRL F on your keyboard, type in your reference code, and you will find your comments.

It should look something like:

Ref: username

Video1
Video2

-P. O. F.
And then people will respond with:

Ref: username

Advice



I was gonna make a post asking for some Fox video critique. But I figured, since a lot of those threads go unnoticed, maybe a general thread for everyone would be a lot more helpful. I'll post an example as to how this works, and hopefully get some critique on it xP
 

Kanelol

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Messages
1,840
Location
Ohio yeeeee
Shuffla, I only watched your first video, but I noticed you messed up a few basic tech things. Couple of missed waveshines, etc.

Also, you weren't really capitalizing on your grabs, I saw one up throw up air, and two up throw bairs. And one missed bair after an up throw. Getting consistent upthrow upairs is really hard, but I believe in you.

And you sorta looked like you were getting a little antsy on your edgeguards. Be patient.

The Marth you were fighting is pretty **** good, (cept for that little Nair SD on his first stock :<) But your mental game seems good. Some really cute spot dodges on fsmashes.

To be honest, it sort of just seems like you can't decide whether to be aggressive or defensive. You look awkward camping and trying to go really offensive. Sure, Marth's priority makes it hard as **** to get an opening, but once you get that opening you need to flick your beastmode switch, combo the **** out of him, and get a kill. Or just camp a lot. Like a looooot. Once again patience.

(*Note that I'm a total scrub, and it's extremely unlikely that any of this is constructive. Just trying to hook you up with my 0.02$.)
 

Tero.

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
2,686

Da Shuffla

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
1,810
Oh, and everyone make sure you use the reference code instead of just the username when giving advice, so people don't get sent to the top of the page. Thanks, Kanelol, by the way.
 

D20

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
1,602
Location
Pittsburgh
Reference: Shuffla3

That Young Link is too good. Don't worry about losing to him.

Seriously though... you are making a mistake every time you let Young Link take out a bomb. You must chase him (intelligently) and shield pressure him until you can get a grab or something. As long as you do not screw up horribly with your tech skill, Young Link cannot even hope to grab you. The only neutral stage that I would recommend laser camping on is Dream Land. Other than that, you just need to be on him at all times. The best Young Link can do when he is being pressured is to get a reset. Abuse your top tier character.
 

AprilShaw

aka Logan
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
1,578
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Ref: tero1

vs Panda(CF) 1
You seemed a little scared to approach, you rolled/double jumped a lot when you were in close. Maybe it's a style thing but I like to be real aggressive with Falcon, it cuts out a lot of his options imo.

bair spam is ****

a lot of your lasers were risky; lasering up close to falcon is generally a no-no, imo. it can get you out of position fast, he didn't really capitalize on it much though.

your combos were solid but you din't get a lot of grabs you could have. you can really wreck falcon by forcing him into his shield, as he has no good options out of it against simple nair shines lol, and it usually leads to a grab.

overall i felt like you were less aggressive than you should have been. i don't like to give falcon enough room to run around and do his thing, and so more than any other matchup (in top/high/mid tiers) i really keep the pressure on him. but i mean, you JV 3'd him so it's hard to really tell lol.

vs Makkura (Marth) 1
Ok... well you 3 stocked him so this is tough. But the only thing I'd really like to say is when you have the advantage against marth, run with it, it doesn't happen often (this is harder in PAL since you can't really follow up shines well like in NTSC, but the idea still stands, if you're in his face, stay in his face). You did this pretty well for the most part, even though it was like 2 shine spikes lol.

again, you roll very predictably a lot in this match though the marth didn't really take advantage of it.

last thing, uthrow uair ***** marth, seriously. they can't SDI it (without **** near perfect DI) if they don't get full DI on the initial throw, and if they do, just bair/nair them lol. uthrow -> uair -> bair to get them off the side is just too good XD

vs Blayd(Luigi) 1
First thing, tell this luigi to spam nair when he's getting hit. luigi can break out of almost all of your combos with nair, it's ridiculous.

this luigi's playstyle confuses me quite a bit. he goes for dashdances and double jumps a lot instead of simple things like wavedashing to ftilt/grab and such. he looks like he'd be a good falcon lol. but against a lot of luigis, they'll be real heavy on breaking out of combos (i swear that character is impossible to get more than 20% on in pure consecutive hits) and will be real smart with their approaches. you didn't really, but never try to challenge a luigi's sh double aerial and never try to shield grab, you did against this guy and it worked, but luigi can **** you hard if you whiff a grab and uthrow doesn't combo into anything as far as i know. shine spikes as always are great against him, just try to control the stage really. again, you 3 stocked him, maybe i just picked the wrong videos to critique or something lol.

vs Skywalker (Falco) 1
the shine thing at the setart was unnecessary lol

you double jump a lot when you're near falco... without that second jump you're easy pickings for a bair or something, since it's a lot harder to get down against him.

this falco didn't use his lasers much to control you, but shining lasers usually doesn't work that well

when you get a grab, you usually only did uthrow cg or uthrow -> shine. uthrow usmash is very good, or fthrowing by an edge sets up for some great edgeguards. uthrow bair kills at stupid low %s and is my main killer in spacy dittoes

when recovering, you really gotta not be predictable with falco, since dair will kill you under 60% (maybe under 50%, if he gets the good hitbox). up Bing into him isn't a great idea lol.

be careful chasing directly after falco, try to stay at half the distance of a dashing SHL from him, and pick your approaches. if you don't understand, read mogwai's falco guide.

learn shine/usmash OoS, they **** against falco (and everyone ever)

vs Makkura (Samus) 2
the laser camping thing isn't as much as everyone talks it up to be imo, it forces you into a bad position. camping is definitely the way to go against most samuses, but platform bair/nair camp her, she'll outdo you in a laser battle.

utilize your far superior mobility when against samus. get her in the air and abuse the platforms as much as you can, she's extremely weak above people.

when you got a throw, you did dthrow 3 times in a row. not a good idea imo, as it doesn't lead to anything. do uthrow uair, it doesn't combo but she can't challenge it. if she's too high, just get under her and keep her up with uairs/bairs, it's really tough to beat for samus.

watch out for CCing, this guy didn't use it much but lots of samuses will spam it against your nair/bair approaches for free dsmashes. abuse your drill, it combos into shine, or grab, and you can also do stupid stuff like drill jab usmash and such. it's a very good move in this match. if you're worried about them SDIing out, drill through them so you land behind. they either SDI into it, or get behind you where you can get out before getting dsmashed.

try not to be face to face with a samus, in neutral position. her shield game is very, very good, and her tilts/jabs are surprisingly efficient.

vs AMON (Ganon) 1
you kinda wrecked him by punishing lag on missed l-cancels/poorly timed moves/etc so i guess i'll just give general matchup info.

keep the pressure on hardcore against ganon (you did this well) but don't ever compromise your position. around 1:34 you fell off stage going for an edgeguard, many ganons will consider that a free kill lol. also if you are pressuring him and let up he can get out fairly easy and his fair will stuff your approach, so while you wanna keep aggressive, if you give him breathing room then back off and wait for your next chance. you don't want to let him get a grab, if you don't believe me, watch linguini or kage play, it's scary.

don't go for shine spikes, its too risky with his uair/up b game, just do standard ledge hop bairs and downsmashes to edgeguard him. if he's at high %s you can just kill him with a uair if he goes high.

i'd comment on your recoveries but you didn't have to recover often. basically you want to be able to go high for a platform, go on the stage proper, and sweet spot the ledge any time you recover. if you can't do all 3 then chances are you're gonna die, lol.

vs Tranx (Fox) 1
again... you 3 stocked him lol... you need to get videos where you lose :p anyways, against fox, always remember he can do everything you can do. be unpredictable, uthrow to combos to **** him, and if you can get him out of position, space bairs as the only thing that beats fox's bair is fox's bair. never mess up your edgeguards and you should be fine.






Edit: HOLY hell that was a lot bigger than i expected. hope some of this helps lol. post some videos of you getting ***** at a tourney and i can help more!
 

Tero.

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
2,686
Wow thank you so much CABC, lot of this stuff is really helpful.
I realised I should try out different Styles against lots of characters.

Amon, Sky and Blayd are Melee Newcomers who were former Brawl players that's why their playstyles may seem a bit weird. I also have major problems with the Falco Match-up, but Skywalker didn't capitalize on my inability to maneuver around lasers.

I try to get some videos up against really good players, I know it's hard to critique someone if he's doing good, but overall you did a very good job, thank you.
 

RaynEX

Colonel RTSD
Joined
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Messages
6,454
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Corneria, Lylat System
I'm so happy someone finally made this kind of thread. Great idea CABC. The Fox boards are going to get a whole lot more organized because of this.
 

Da Shuffla

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
1,810
Edit: HOLY hell that was a lot bigger than i expected. hope some of this helps lol. post some videos of you getting ***** at a tourney and i can help more!
You said you would critique me, cheif.
 

Tomi-X

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
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Location
Sacramento, CA
Trahh, I'm gonna add more later, but...

V Fox:

Uthrow USmash is your best friend on stages with platforms. It racks up about 30% in just a couple of seconds. On Final Destination, Chaingrab the crap out of them, throwing in utilts whenever they don't DI, and make sure you run whichever way when they do DI.

Bairs are also excellent in the matchup, whenever you can get them. Right around the 50-second mark in the fox vid, after you hit him with the Up-B, you waited until he tumbled down to you before you gave him a shine. A bair would've killed him, and you could've done it before he had a chance to recover. Not only that, but you would've saved yourself an extra few seconds of edgeguarding. Also, Uthrow Bairs work better against the space animals, IMO, especially Falco for his subpar horizontal recovery. I think I've seen you do this a few times, so you probably already know this.

I love the Uair Usmashes on the platforms. That's one of my favorite combos w/ fox against fastfallers. Keep up the good work with that.

One thing you could definitely work on is your spacing. I saw several missed grabs because you ran past your opponent and tried to grab, whether by accident or timing or whatever. Throws lead to massive damage for fox against fastfallers, so it's critical that you learn the spacing you need to get these grabs.

Right around the 1:06 mark in the Fox vid, you went directly right from the Up-B to survive. Perhaps you didn't get the angle you wanted (happens to me all the time >.>) but this is a big no-no. Especially since he was charging a Dsmash. Granted, there isn't much you can do against Fox's edgeguarding from that position, as he's easily fast enough to move wherever you move, but try to mix up the recovery. Go from 80-degree to 45-degree angles, switch it up and keep him guessing. The platform could be your friend in that situation, if you can get the shield up quick enough to protect yourself from the bair that is certainly coming.

USmashing out of the shield is amazing. I used to get utterly destroyed because of my agressive playstyle, Nairing into shields and then taking 18% or so every time. Missed L-cancels are crippling in this fashion. Also, a more difficult technique is shining out of the shield, but for now stick to USmash until your comfortable with doing such a technique.

I can't say I'm a fan of any ledge hop that isn't a Dair into Shine. Nairs are far too slow, any spacie worth their salt will simply block, or use spacing into a Usmash, grab, etc. Bairs don't make sense, Uairs...It's arguable, and simply for the 2-hits.

I think you have solid tech-skill, I didn't see many missed L-cancels, the only things that bothered me a bit were the missed wavelands, especially the one that killed you at 0%, but that just takes a bit of practice. Still happens to me all the f'n time. :D All in all, you have a solid fox, and hopefully I can help you a bit with the other matchups. More later.


V Doc:

Alright, first thing's first. I love your mind games. I saw a lot of impressive drillshines and bairs at excellent times. GJ.

However, that first stock when you got him into killing range, you were fishing for a USmash. HARD. Uthrow Uair is perfectly acceptable, or Bair, if you're in the correct position. I actually like Bairs better, as they can't smash DI like they can to avoid Uairs. You took a lot more dmg than you should've because you wanted that USmash.

You're not comfortable with waveshining backwards, are you? 'S okay, neither am I. It takes practice, no doubt. I've got it down to about 50% of the time now, so there's progress. I don't have to tell you why it's important.

Chillax on the forward-Bs on Battlefield. The first time you got hit by Doc, it would've been a suicide had he not hit you. Battlefield is a dumb stage, but meh.

It's tough to give you a lot of good advice for this one, the Doc wasn't very good, so...play better Docs. I'll see if I can grill the Sheik/Falcon match in a bit.
 

trahhSTEEZY

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
2,287
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vegas baby
Trahh, I'm gonna add more later, but...

V Fox:

Uthrow USmash is your best friend on stages with platforms. It racks up about 30% in just a couple of seconds. On Final Destination, Chaingrab the crap out of them, throwing in utilts whenever they don't DI, and make sure you run whichever way when they do DI.

Bairs are also excellent in the matchup, whenever you can get them. Right around the 50-second mark in the fox vid, after you hit him with the Up-B, you waited until he tumbled down to you before you gave him a shine. A bair would've killed him, and you could've done it before he had a chance to recover. Not only that, but you would've saved yourself an extra few seconds of edgeguarding. Also, Uthrow Bairs work better against the space animals, IMO, especially Falco for his subpar horizontal recovery. I think I've seen you do this a few times, so you probably already know this.

I love the Uair Usmashes on the platforms. That's one of my favorite combos w/ fox against fastfallers. Keep up the good work with that.

One thing you could definitely work on is your spacing. I saw several missed grabs because you ran past your opponent and tried to grab, whether by accident or timing or whatever. Throws lead to massive damage for fox against fastfallers, so it's critical that you learn the spacing you need to get these grabs.

Right around the 1:06 mark in the Fox vid, you went directly right from the Up-B to survive. Perhaps you didn't get the angle you wanted (happens to me all the time >.>) but this is a big no-no. Especially since he was charging a Dsmash. Granted, there isn't much you can do against Fox's edgeguarding from that position, as he's easily fast enough to move wherever you move, but try to mix up the recovery. Go from 80-degree to 45-degree angles, switch it up and keep him guessing. The platform could be your friend in that situation, if you can get the shield up quick enough to protect yourself from the bair that is certainly coming.

USmashing out of the shield is amazing. I used to get utterly destroyed because of my agressive playstyle, Nairing into shields and then taking 18% or so every time. Missed L-cancels are crippling in this fashion. Also, a more difficult technique is shining out of the shield, but for now stick to USmash until your comfortable with doing such a technique.

I can't say I'm a fan of any ledge hop that isn't a Dair into Shine. Nairs are far too slow, any spacie worth their salt will simply block, or use spacing into a Usmash, grab, etc. Bairs don't make sense, Uairs...It's arguable, and simply for the 2-hits.

I think you have solid tech-skill, I didn't see many missed L-cancels, the only things that bothered me a bit were the missed wavelands, especially the one that killed you at 0%, but that just takes a bit of practice. Still happens to me all the f'n time. :D All in all, you have a solid fox, and hopefully I can help you a bit with the other matchups. More later.


V Doc:

Alright, first thing's first. I love your mind games. I saw a lot of impressive drillshines and bairs at excellent times. GJ.

However, that first stock when you got him into killing range, you were fishing for a USmash. HARD. Uthrow Uair is perfectly acceptable, or Bair, if you're in the correct position. I actually like Bairs better, as they can't smash DI like they can to avoid Uairs. You took a lot more dmg than you should've because you wanted that USmash.

You're not comfortable with waveshining backwards, are you? 'S okay, neither am I. It takes practice, no doubt. I've got it down to about 50% of the time now, so there's progress. I don't have to tell you why it's important.

Chillax on the forward-Bs on Battlefield. The first time you got hit by Doc, it would've been a suicide had he not hit you. Battlefield is a dumb stage, but meh.

It's tough to give you a lot of good advice for this one, the Doc wasn't very good, so...play better Docs. I'll see if I can grill the Sheik/Falcon match in a bit.
Good **** :bee: read it all, i'm gonna read over it again and try and apply most of this stuff. and yea as for the back waveshine, it's just weird cause you have to jump before moving the analog stick diagonal for the wavedash, which is different than how I do it going forward. But i'm learning it definitely.

I usually don't Up-B straight into the stage like that, i think it was just a choke moment. And yeah, one of our best players in state is a doc, i hadnt been able to beat him with falco for months but i picked up fox and practiced hardcore and 2-0'd him at our monthy :D but we haven't recorded yet, hopefully will do soon.

Thanks again :D i'll check back later if you updated it with the other mu's
 

AprilShaw

aka Logan
Joined
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Messages
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Pittsburgh, PA
You said you would critique me, cheif.
Rob critiqued you!

Ref: shuffla3

vs D20 (Y.Link):
Not aggressive enough when you're close. You gave him free hits, especially the usmashes near the start.

Recovery is predictable, and he punished you for it hard. Make sure to DI and use your jump to give you options, just distance isn't enough.

Again with the predictability; you used way too many getup attacks, rolls off the edge, etc, as well as predictable combo DI and almost no techs. Y.Link cannot combo you, but he can follow up when he predicts, just as any character can.

Use your shield more. Y.Link can only really do 3 things to your shield: he can grab it, which is slow, easy to see coming, and easy to react to (jump/spot dodge) as well as punished hard, so he doesn't rely on his grab much; he can throw a bomb at it which is hard to beat, WD OoS to get inside his range while he's in the lag of having thrown it to put pressure on him; and finally, he can attack it with nairs and bairs which is beaten by usmash OoS, shine OoS, or your own nair/bair OoS. Given all the options that Fox has OoS, and the fact that just jumping out of it ***** against Y.Link, you should abuse it.

You can't camp Y.Link out. Even when playing defensively you have to get up in his face, as playing defensively means you wanna get where the opponent is weak. Keep the pressure on as much as possible. Uthrow -> uair absolutely destroys Y.Link but you can't get predictable with your grabs. But remember, you are Fox and your character is better. On equal elevation your nair and bair beat out all of his attacks (save projectiles, which are slow). If he has a bomb, don't give him a chance to combo you off of it. Make sure you shield it, or you're too close and the bomb hits him too. When you break through his defenses, either by hitting his shield until its weak or simply getting him out of position, get him off the stage and gimp/edgeguard him.

Really your main issues are pretty much universal: predictability, spacing, and DI. 2:11 is a good example; he had an arrow and thus only one option, and you got hit by it. You have to know your options to get around it. If all you can do is jump up and air dodge hoping he'll miss, do it. If you can get the waveland on the platform, or a scarjump, or something else, do that and punish him for having only one option. But instead, you rolled up as you had done multiple times before and gave him an easy hit. As for spacing, multiple times you just kinda threw out attacks like usmashes and got punished for it. There was also a bair that could've led to a kill on the right side of the stage, but you overshot it and hit him to the left instead. Would've been better to just knock him off and edgeguard. For DI, I think this is pretty obvious... you got combo'd pretty hard and died at some fairly early %s (for Y.Link at least). 3 up airs in a row for a kill off the top, or an n-air kill at 113% from the center of the stage, all that could've gone much better with proper DI. You don't need SDI for a lot of it, you just need to know your survival DI (perpendicular to kinda pull it towards the top corner) or combo DI (generally out and down, but against Y.Link, it's sometimes better to DI out and up then shine stall/jump/up B out of the combo).

vs D20 (Marth):

Pretty much the same issues as before. Your recovery and getups were very predictable. More than that, your attack methods were also extremely predictable; first stock you didn't grab at all, second stock you went for 5 or 6 grabs without much in between. You missed a lot of techs and DI on fsmashes, throws, etc. When you got an advantage, you started playing kinda defensively on it, using spot dodges/shield at odd times. This worked the first few times, and you got a few shield grabs off, but Rob caught on fast and was able to turn your hits around into his CG. When you get a hit on Marth, go all out, give it your all because you want him dead. Then, when he gets out, run away and make him come to you.

Another thing I noticed in this match: you barely dash dance at all. You kind of do this, run in and aerial, wavedash back/shield/spot dodge thing a lot. Then when it doesn't work you think, ok, I can combo off a grab so you go for a lot of grabs. You wanna make your overall playstyle more fluid, instead of just kinda standing still hoping they do something that you can punish with a grab.

The final thing I'd like to say is your Fox just needs to be faster. All those talks we had about dumb tech skill? Dumb tech skill is sometimes the best option, provided you have the tech skill to back it up. Watch yourself play, look at how many shines/nairs you get off, then watch some of the videos in my video thread and compare. When they're aggressive they just hit faster, and it gives the opponent less options which is important.
 

trahhSTEEZY

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
2,287
Location
vegas baby
CABC you should throw a critique sometime if you get a chance, they're enjoyable to read/learn.

ALSO, wtf is that fox in your sig doing?
 

AprilShaw

aka Logan
Joined
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Pittsburgh, PA
It's hunting for mice! I think. But it's cute :3

And sure, probably tomorrow but maybe later tonight I'll check yours out.
 

AprilShaw

aka Logan
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Pittsburgh, PA
Ref: Trahh1 (giving you a ref since you didn't have one lolz)

Gonna focus on vs Falcon and vs Sheik since the other 2 matchups were covered already :)

vs Bacon (Falcon)

Ahh, the Falcon matchup. One of my favorites :D

First off, you combos in this matchup are very nice. You were able to rackup damage real fast, especially off of those grabs. Some things I'd change that a lot of people don't do (From what I see), is at higher %s (50%+ or so) if you get a shine off instead of going for a grab consider going for waveshines to the edge and ending with a dsmash, if you can do so consistently. This sets up nicely for edgeguarding, which brings up point number two.

Your edgeguarding in this matchup seems a little lacking, almost in a trying too hard sort of way. Edgeguarding Falcon is extremely simple, and only 2 things will cover 95% of his options. These are holding the edge, and ledgehop bairs. The things to remember about Falcon are, he has a lot of ending lang when he lands on stage (like Marth, Sheik, etc) and his up B can't hit you while you're on the edge, invincible or not. This means that you can safely ledgehop bair him over and over, and when you feel there's a chance he won't make it on stage, just hold the edge. If he does make it, jump up and either bair him again, land and dsmash/fsmash, whatever (bair is generally safest as you can wait the longest before jumping, meaning you can ensure he hits the ground). If you hit the bair and he manages to get a shield up, then just do standard shield pressure shenanigans to him til he breaks and get him off the edge again. Bear in mind that if he's going to roll in that situation, it has to be towards you, which you can punish with a grab. Edgeguarding is extremely important in this matchup, as it's a huge advantage Fox has over Falcon.

As for how you are from neutral position, I think you need to keep it a bit simpler. You try to set up a lot of shine combos and grabs and such and get punished by either shield grabbing or short hop nairs. In vs Bacon (Falcon) 6 you're very consistent in following up on shines off of nairs at low %s, which is good, abuse that skill. When you see me play against Falcon I just wait til he's in his shield or has a bit of lag and then do nothing but nair/bair shines and almost always get a hit, usually more than one too. It forces him in a tough situation where he has no options.

When Falcon has the pressure on you, you tend to sit in your shield a lot, or dash away and shoot lasers. Both of these resulted in you getting grabbed a few more times than you should have I think, lol. The one thing you really didn't do at all, is dash dance. Dash dancing vs Falcon is soooo **** (actually, vs anyone! lol). Falcon may have a better dash than you but as your nair/bair outprioritize all of his moves and you have the shine and better jumps, your dashdance overall is the imo the best in the game. Abuse it. A well spaced/timed dash dance can cover every single option your opponent has, allowing you to get punishes on reaction to a lot of things. It takes awhile to learn (admittedly, I still do a lot of unnecessary movement) but just try. I honestly think someone like RaynEX, Mango, etc should make a thread on the art of dash dancing; it's a huge part of Fox's game and seems so simple yet is so hard to really understand. But the main point is, your dash dances were limited to real quick/small ones for a few seconds then going in for (generally) a grab. Those can help with your predictability but don't really help in covering their approach as much as taking bigger strides, messing with the spacing left and right, etc.

vs Foxdie (Sheik)

You play the Sheik matchup very well, I think. You've got edgeguarding mostly down; edgeguarding Sheik is extremely simple lol, just edgehog in every situation (especially on Battlefield and Yoshi's where you can waveland onto the side platforms, since some Sheiks recover high), then punish her for landing on stage.

Your recovery and positioning were a little off though. First, you don't want to get above a Sheik, which you did a lot by going for dairs and simply getting up on a platform. Dairs are great when short hopped for a CC spamming Sheik (or any character spamming CC lol) but Sheik's uair is one of her best combo setups on Fox and outprioritizes all of your moves from below. In general you wanna stay beside Sheik, or above and to the side, and if you're pressuring her shield do it with late nair/bair -> shine -> retreating early nair/bair/dair because you do not want her to get that grab. This Sheik didn't do much per grab as I expected, and many Sheiks won't be able to 0-death you off a throw, but some can and you should always be scared lol. Another option is shine -> JC grab on her shield but you have to be confident that she won't see it coming. When you get a drill on her, the best option (if you're facing her) is to just grab imo, it isn't escapable by Sheik I don't think and grabs set up our favorite little combo ever, uthrow uair :) once again, this combo ***** Sheik pretty hard. It is important to remember, though, that she can break out of it better than a lot of characters, so sometimes the best option is to just throw her and then either bair/nair her or wait and punish whatever she does. If she's above you, you're in a good spot. As for Recovery, it's really tough against Sheik but I've found you always want to have recovering with a low sweetspot as an option. After that, try and guess if she'll predict you going on a platform, straight in, or for the edge, and remember if you do go for a platform you can hold down and fall through it. When you initially get hit off was your biggest mistake in the whole match though imo (besides the edgeguarding mishaps around 1:30~1:50 maybe) . What you often did is you'd get hit off and immediately double jump, or at least when you could. This just ends up with you jumping right into needles, bairs, fairs, nairs, hell even dsmashes if you're close enough. It's extremely predictable and that option can be covered while still covering some of your other options and as such is generally not a good idea unless you're sure she's not going to punish you for it. This kind of goes for almost every character in almost any matchup but is extremely important in Fox vs Sheik xP. Imagine it like Falco, they always shoot that first laser just in case you jump into it. And people *always* jump into it.

Overall though you played the matchup well. Just remember you have guaranteed combos like uthrow uair or waveshine up smash (in particular, at 1:56ish you went for a dash attack -> bair which is escapable when you could've gone for waveshine usmash which isn't. Drill waveshine usmash kills and is really **** hard to escape, and is good if you get the Sheik to too high of a % and are having trouble killing lol.
 

trahhSTEEZY

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
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vegas baby
Thanks a bunch CABC. srsly appreciate it. i read over it all, falcon's my favorite matchup. Idk about the ledgeguards, in normal play i usually just **** him off stage with bairs.

'gonna read over all the advice again tonight, thanks guys =D
 

AustinRC

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Messages
1,482
Ref: Arc

Loser's Finals - AustinRC vs caveman
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pANYKWmGImk
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2PoxS2MCSs
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nAuiKtF0UE
5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1-2128wFys

Grand Finals - AustinRC vs FASTLIKETREE
2.2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXHPyUVN4bg
2.3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiHWdT0l2F4
2.4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxOKDFOVn5g
3.2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9swCIi1h4qY
3.3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NALjpx_uuSU
3.4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s39FcN15wOg

Sooo tell me what I need to work on other than being less sloppy. My tech skill needs work I know and I'm working on that right now :D. Thanks for the advice in advance!
 

AustinRC

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Messages
1,482
Not really, they are both rusty but still very VERY good. FLT just went to this tournament for the lulz and to team with me and win which we did :D.
 
Joined
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the west
Arc:

Match 1:

You need to use more lasers and make sheik come to you. She doesn't have too great of an approach so it's easier to abuse that than to let her abuse yours. Don't just run all the way to the other side of the stage and laser from there, especially not on a stage with more room than Yoshi's, just stay as far as you need to. Watch out for Sheik's dash attack when you're lasering too, especially if you're on a stage where full jump triple lasers are more appropriate, they can get close to you with that if they're expecting that. Adding lasers into your game makes it easier to sneak attacks in because they can't tell whether you're going to laser or go in and attack, you have to switch it up from lasering and waiting for her to attack and going in with an attack when you think she's going to approach. Nair is good for that (when they don't expect it) because it leads into a lot of things. If they do expect nairs or they're just someone who likes to crouch cancel it'd probably be best to avoid nairs unless they're in the air. Switching it up from lasering to spacing bairs is good too. Bairs usually lead into grabs and grabs are what you want more than pretty much everything. Look for openings where you can just grab as well, sometimes I feel like I have to combo into a grab for some reason and forget to just look from grab opportunities. That might just be me but I thought I'd let you know anyways. Just try switching it up between those and see what works best and when. A couple more tips: Don't be afraid to go out there and shine spike edge guard Sheik every once in a while, there's not much she can do usually, and when you're edge guarding her near the ledge just time standing up from the ledge so that if she were to go for the ledge she'd get hogged. That way you can punish her if she goes on the stage. Other than that just get used to all of Fox's combos and maneuvers :D

I'd give more advice but I always just end up explaining the match up and don't want to do that for more than one character >_> Hope that helps though.
 

joeplicate

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,842
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alameda, ca
holy **** fastliketree!?

i'm probably gonna watch those vids now lol



so i watched grand finals

it looks like your tech skill is fine, honestly. i think that you just try to play too fast.
you do a lot of fancy stuff, and that's great (some of it works really well), but you don't always have to be dancing around so much. a good example is your shield pressure on the last match--you had flt on the edge and in his shield, and you went up to the platform a couple of times for basically no reason.

if you can't always execute the superfast foxy plan you have in your head, don't get preoccupied by it. both in tournament and in friendlies, try not to spend your energy thinking about the tech skill you need to do a cool trick or fancy movement (i think you tried to shine out of shield like 4 times at the beginning of the last match, because you spotdodged hella times for no reason). the reason is, because, even if you are technical enough to do it, there's no guarantee that the first cool plan that comes to your mind is the right one.

i learned this playing against hmw, where even though i was moving as fast as i wanted i was still getting *****.

try to focus more on thinking: move choice, the space between you and your opponent, what he's gonna do next, and what you can do to not be predictable and get a real HIT in.

even if you hit all your fast falls and l-cancels, if you're too far away from your opponent to do anything, than it's all wasted movement, and wasted effort. for most purposes, it's as bad as missing an l-cancel when you're on their shield, especially against marth. FLT was good enough to get you on this a lot. during the second set, when he stepped it up, he started predicting your dash dance like crazy. although you do more moves, he spaces a lot better. because of this he was able to get the first hit a lot more than you were.

another example is that match on FD where you dash danced along the right edge for like 10 seconds, throwing out bairs, but still got pushed to the side and grabbed. even if your tech skill is perfect in these situations, you should realize that you're still giving away space, which isn't what you wanna do. "not giving away space" should be your first concern, not "hitting tech skill" or having a perfect dash dance (which is only as good as the moves you do out of it).

what i DID really like was how you took advantage of his early 2nd jumps with shine spikes, that was really on point. the only thing is don't rely on it, i saw you doing some backthrows when he was at like 100% (don't know if it was a technical error) but you should be going for uthrow uair there since it's a guaranteed kill.

good stuff though, man, don't worry about it. it's a stage basically every fox goes through (especially 2010). i gotta go, so i'll end here. peace :)
 

AustinRC

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 11, 2005
Messages
1,482
Wow Joeplicate and Silentwolf thank you both very much. Your advice has help me very much. I feel that I am too technical in certain areas which is something I will work on. My approach game is trash I try to approach way to much and basically did a romantic "throw myself into the arms of my opponent". I will incorporate more lasers into my game and more solid tech skill where it is needed where I will reduce the tech skill where it is not. Again thank you both very much for all the advice I REALLY appreciate it. Hopefully I'll be able to play some of you sometime soon I'm moving away from Texas and into the Midwest where I'll be traveling to tournaments more frequently so hopefully we'll meet somewhere.

smasher love,

Arc
 

Animal

Smash Lord
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Oct 20, 2009
Messages
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Animal

Smash Lord
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****ing by-tor you couldn't have critiqued me? i'll tell ya what ill critique yours you critique mine?
 

By-Tor

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
63
Location
P-Town
I can already see you're on a way different level than me, but I'll give what little advice I can

Don't use the dash attack unless you're sure it will hit, otherwise you're wide open for a shield grab. On the second video at 2:54

On the first video, it seems that the times you got comboed where when you were in range for an attack but didn't do anything for a fraction of a second. I would suggest shining or just wavedashing away.

Something I've taken note of is to not space the bair trying to get a hit in. If you miss, then you're probably in close range and open for attack.

When throwing your opponent up, learn at what percentages they are open for your uairs. On one you threw the falco up but wasn't able to follow it up. When at low percentages, I've seen eggz just charge the usmash until they come down.

I'll watch the rest when I can, got school
 

Animal

Smash Lord
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Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,142
Im going to comment as i watch, first thing i notice is that you are very direct with your approaches, try and dash dance more to bait openings. When you hit a peach with nair at low percents always follow up with shine, but you did do well at hitting nair past her shield and getting away as to not get ***** by dsmash or nair out of sheild. your tech skill could be better, stringing shine to grab or upsmash combos is really good in this matchup. at 1 54 you could have naired continued to nair to usmash prob at those percents just carry her across the stage with it. You need to work on DI try and predict where you are going to get hit before you get hit. Its easy to predict which way a peach is going to throw you at high percentages...lol After watching the first match i say thatt you need to become less predictable and vary up how you approach. I saw some good bair spacing at times, but at others you would bair straight into shield. If you are going to do this at least follow up with shine. Also remember to string shine wavedash to grab or upsmash or if you want to be old school waveshine lol Also vs Peach you dont want to be to greedy and stay in on her because she can just dsmash and **** you. Take the hits you can get, but if your not hitting get out of there especially at low percents where she can jsut CC


vs puff
You need to hit uthrow uair thats a given. no point oin back throwing shining her because of her absurd recovery. You seem to be very stationary with fox which isn't bad but if you keep moving you keep your opponent guessing try to use fox's speed to create openings. good job on reading most of the predictable pounds you did a good job on punishing them. i liked how you played the match, although dont just throw out nairs, space them properly and dont be afraid to bair **** her back. Your shines were nice, recognize that whenever you tried to appraoch jiggz would shield so if you can grab jggz u can **** her. Work on shine grabs. Also dont be afraid to throw upsmashes in on this matchup you'll be surpised how well it works if you dont make it too predicable. Very scattered and random critique but there you go lol thx for the critique
 

By-Tor

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
63
Location
P-Town
thanks a lot, honestly that really helps. I'll critique as I watch next time
 

FoxLisk

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 18, 2007
Messages
1,851
if you're scared to play peach with your spacies, work on your tech skill. both spacies beat peach (some people think peach > falco but to them I say BAH), you just have to be precise and careful.

mix up your recovery. you did walljump -> side B too much.

let me qualify Animal's "When you hit a peach with nair at low percents always follow up with shine." this is a good safety tool, but it needs two things added to it:

1) don't act like this is then going to get you a combo. nair will knock her into the air, and the shine will knock her back down with no grab. so don't go after her
2) don't nair peach at low % if she is on the ground. she will CC dsmash you. ouch.
 
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