The Forest Master Rises! Sceptile for Smash Bros! Over 100 supporters!!!

[Gooper Blooper]

I'm a supporter! Sceptile was my first starter in my first pokemon game!!!

 

[Masonomace]

I'm a supporter! Sceptile was my first starter in my first pokemon game!!!

Thanks Goop Bloop, you have our thanks!

~Thanks for Posting~​

 

[Gooper Blooper]

Thanks Goop Bloop, you have our thanks!

~Thanks for Posting~​

Man this is the nicest gaming community I've ever been in :D

On topic I really hope they recognize the elemental triumvirate... I mean I know how crazy Sakurai can be but he isn't dumb and hopefully he understands the need to complete the triangle and the opportunity to give the upcoming remakes some love. Plus Sceptile would be my only main that wouldn't be a villain... heck Sceptile is pretty much the only character i want in the game who isn't a villain

 

[Jmacz]

Man this is the nicest gaming community I've ever been in :D

I second this, coming from places like the old MLG forums and current Wrestling forums this place is great. I actually have had multiple arguments with people that didn't end up in personal threats and name calling. I can't say that happens much any other forum (though for the most part Reddit is a pretty good community).

 

[Reality_Ciak]

We rarely get any anti-sceptilists around here other than the occasional blaziken believer or plain pessimist, right? Very seldomly do we have to wage war. And that's pretty cool.

Also, if anyone wants to check out my moveset a page or two back, and give any feed back, specifically if you would switch out any of my custom moves with the main moves, the input would be appreciated.
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...r-100-supporters.352922/page-29#post-17171342

 

[Masonomace]

Tried finding official polls of popularity among the starters of their generations / regions. . .No more luck than what I had last page =/.
I'll be very pleased when Sceptile & Swampert make Blaziken the weakest link within their Hoenn region. All of them are cool but I'd like Blaziken to get the Bulbasaur treatment. I sound like a puma, but the Mega Evolutions Sceptile & Swampert have. . .are just awesome.
I tried finding that voting google had & it mentioned Sceptile's popularity soared higher than Blaziken's, cannot find that for my life.

Also I've liked this thread a lot. There's barely any hate & only had one wage war against Blaziken. For 30 pages that's impressive.

 

[Reality_Ciak]

I like the term Sceptilists. Sceptilists vs Blazikrats. XD

 

[Masonomace]

I like the term Sceptilists. Sceptilists vs Blazikrats. XD

Hmm. . .your Blaziken term was a lot more PG-13 than my idea. . . .Won't say it since you-know-what it probably is.
Sceptilists is cool~

Just as I walked away letting Sceptile penetrate my grass mind, I came up with:

Scepstylists <-- my fav
Sceptilikes, these names

 

[Reality_Ciak]

Hmm. . .your Blaziken term was a lot more PG-13 than my idea. . . .Won't say it since you-know-what it probably is.
Sceptilists is cool~

Just as I walked away letting Sceptile penetrate my grass mind, I came up with:

Scepstylists <-- my fav
Sceptilikes, these names

Blazikannots? *bats eyelashes innocently*

 

[Masonomace]

Very, Very, VERY irrelevant point to make out, but did anyone remember when Sakurai made a certain change to a certain someone in Sm4sh, involving an eggstremely different change? No don't remember? Let's put it here for referance then.

Spoiler

It's

In past Smash Brothers, yoshi moved like a dinosaur standing on two legs, with a bent back.

Very little topic to discuss, but if it were me, I'd say in favor of Sceptile that Yoshi not only got this change because he needed it to make him more up to date,but to give the dinosaur-like character to someone else. . .& who else could that be other than a resembling Dilophosaurus like Sceptile?

 

[Reality_Ciak]

Very, Very, VERY irrelevant point to make out, but did anyone remember when Sakurai made a certain change to a certain someone in Sm4sh, involving an eggstremely different change? No don't remember? Let's put it here for referance then.

Spoiler

It's

Very little topic to discuss, but if it were me, I'd say in favor of Sceptile that Yoshi not only got this change because he needed it to make him more up to date,but to give the dinosaur-like character to someone else. . .& who else could that be other than a resembling Dilophosaurus like Sceptile?

Don't be rude, share your milkshake with the rest of us, grab some more straws.

For the sake of the forest master, let's make that a shamrock shake.

Jokes aside, though it's a very, very small bit to favor Sceptile, it's interesting and a clever realization!

 

[Masonomace]

Don't be rude, share your milkshake with the rest of us, grab some more straws.

For the sake of the forest master, let's make that a shamrock shake.

Jokes aside, though it's a very, very small bit to favor Sceptile, it's interesting and a clever realization!

Shamrock shakes are out of season. straws are now in decline without any huge demand, why do you all keep making straws?!

The way Yoshi uses his tail as well is very flexible & easy to fight with. Something that gives me hope for the Forest Master's tail moves as well. After all, his tail would add to a unique game-gem of fighting with in his / her kit.

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

After Blaziken, Sceptile is probably the most popular Hoenn Pokemon with a design that would fit well into Smash (I've been saying "fit well into Smash" a lot), and I admit that Sceptile would be a decent newcomer choice. Hell, if it did show up, I'd main it in a heartbeat. However, there are better character choices in Mewtwo, Jigglypuff, and Blaziken (ordered by likelihood, this is coming from someone who's a gigantic fan of Sceptile). Sceptile just lacks the significance of those three, and "muh fire-water-grass triangle" is a poor reason for its inclusion; Greninja wasn't even added because of its typing, that was just a coincidence. All in all, I don't think Sceptile is going to appear.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I brought Sceptile up again in the Official Character Discussion thread. Finally changed Topic off of the Dark undertaker, for now...
If anyone wants to be involved,
I'm trying to provide a link... grr

 

[GunGunW]

I support Sceptile and wish to be added to the list if I'm not already on it

 

[Reality_Ciak]

After Blaziken, Sceptile is probably the most popular Hoenn Pokemon with a design that would fit well into Smash (I've been saying "fit well into Smash" a lot), and I admit that Sceptile would be a decent newcomer choice. Hell, if it did show up, I'd main it in a heartbeat. However, there are better character choices in Mewtwo, Jigglypuff, and Blaziken (ordered by likelihood, this is coming from someone who's a gigantic fan of Sceptile). Sceptile just lacks the significance of those three, and "muh fire-water-grass triangle" is a poor reason for its inclusion; Greninja wasn't even added because of its typing, that was just a coincidence. All in all, I don't think Sceptile is going to appear.

No offense at all to you, just going to ramble the thoughts that come to mind then let @ Masonomace be super cool about everything when they wake up (:
I dont see it being any poorer of a reason than the triforce from zelda. Or the trio of sword axe lance in FE... Oh wait.. Also. Just because Greninja was revealed first doesnt mean he was chosen before another potential newcomer. He could have been chosen as the water typed after they decided on Sceptile over Swampert. He wasn't chosen based on popularity, we know that. Therefore Blaziken's advantage (other than type advantage) goes down the drain. I don't see a second fire starter getting priority over a grass. The trio has appearer in every installment (apparently) be it pokeballs or PKMN Trainer. I think if we get another new newcomer, it'll be a ivysaur replacement, and I doubt they'll give us another Captain Falcon clone over something with much more potential.(and yes I'm creative enough to make a non clone Blaziken moveset) We got Robin over the obvious Chrom. Logically Sceptile makes much more sense. I think the trio is more important than Mewtwo or Jiggs. I'd say its more important than pikachu to the game. I'm rambling. I just think they got two pokemon newcomers and Mewtwo back. So it was Chesnaught and Swampert vs Sceptile and Greninja. And they decide to not go with three heavy weight starters.

 

[Masonomace]

I support Sceptile and wish to be added to the list if I'm not already on it

I gotchu, expect to be on it at least by tomorrow

No offense at all to you, just going to ramble the thoughts that come to mind then let @ Masonomace be super cool about everything when they wake up (:
I dont see it being any poorer of a reason than the triforce from zelda. Or the trio of sword axe lance in FE... Oh wait.. Also. Just because Greninja was revealed first doesnt mean he was chosen before another potential newcomer. He could have been chosen as the water typed after they decided on Sceptile over Swampert. He wasn't chosen based on popularity, we know that. Therefore Blaziken's advantage (other than type advantage) goes down the drain. I don't see a second fire starter getting priority over a grass. The trio has appearer in every installment (apparently) be it pokeballs or PKMN Trainer. I think if we get another new newcomer, it'll be a ivysaur replacement, and I doubt they'll give us another Captain Falcon clone over something with much more potential.(and yes I'm creative enough to make a non clone Blaziken moveset) We got Robin over the obvious Chrom. Logically Sceptile makes much more sense. I think the trio is more important than Mewtwo or Jiggs. I'd say its more important than pikachu to the game. I'm rambling. I just think they got two pokemon newcomers and Mewtwo back. So it was Chesnaught and Swampert vs Sceptile and Greninja. And they decide to not go with three heavy weight starters.

Yo I'm here.
When you think about the Pokemon game's battling strategy & mechanics of Types & MUs, you realize, "oh he switched out with Fire better go Water" etc.. Smash Brothers is a spin-off of all Nintendo's greatest fighters from all of Nintendo's Universes, & their knacks for what their elements in their games are about hence pokeball thrown out. Pokemon's Type MU is heavily important it's how you play the game & win. Smash Brothers aka Sakurai took that into consideration with PT in Brawl & implemented Type Effectiveness, which is a buff or a nerf depending on how you see it & what characters you fight against. IMO very impressive to do, Stamina value & Fatigue ruined it but we won't talk about that. .The Type Trio Trifecta or, TTT, was implemented in Brawl not only as a gimmick but a step forward in a new direction. It taught you to respect MU's of fighters, like the games do. This is one reason I believe it can come back implemented in the games. Triforce isn't represented that hard, it just has the characters who have the triforce in Smash Brothers, should be included in Smash right? The Triforce a big part of LoZ's plot / story, so why do the same bashing to Pokemon, if the original trio actually gets recognition for it being implemented in Smash Brothers?

Edit: I forgot why I posted this towards your reply. . . .

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

No offense at all to you, [...]

Before I begin, I think making sure your argument holds water is more important than worrying about "offending" anyone. "No offense" is never a good way to start off any response, because there's a 99.9999% chance the reader will infer that you're trying to be offensive in some way.

just going to ramble the thoughts that come to mind then let @ Masonomace be super cool about everything when they wake up (:
I dont see it being any poorer of a reason than the triforce from zelda. Or the trio of sword axe lance in FE... Oh wait..

And right after you imply no offense, the first sentence in your argument contains crude sarcasm? Ouch. Anyway, the "triforce from zelda" has nothing to do with Link's, Zelda's, or Ganondorf's recognition, nor does it have anything to do with their status as playable characters in Melee, Brawl, and probably Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS. They're immensely popular and heavily demanded characters in their own right, so there goes your "triforce from zelda" analogy. I don't play Fire Emblem games, but I know enough to realize that there aren't nor have there ever been any lance- or axe-wielding characters in Super Smash Bros. What were you trying to argue there, and wouldn't the fact that there aren't even any prospective candidates for SSB4's roster from the FE universe that wield axes or lances hurt your argument that these supposed "trio"s are the ultimate factors in a character's inclusion?

Also. Just because Greninja was revealed first doesnt mean he was chosen before another potential newcomer. He could have been chosen as the water typed after they decided on Sceptile over Swampert. He wasn't chosen based on popularity, we know that.

In response to the first sentence here, that may be true, but please consider that there isn't any hard evidence of Sakurai knowing about Ruby/Sapphire remakes at the time Greninja was being worked on. Sakurai also never disclosed whether or not Greninja's typing had anything to do with its conclusion. For all we know, the template given to Sakurai by Game Freak was of a creature with an ambiguous elemental type.

Therefore Blaziken's advantage (other than type advantage) goes down the drain. I don't see a second fire starter getting priority over a grass.

No, actually Sceptile's typing doesn't make it a more viable character choice than Blaziken. The "pattern" theory is weak, because it's known that Sakurai likes to swerve, troll, and do his own thing. Ill-perceived "patterns" don't supersede character relevance. Sceptile isn't notable enough, Blaziken on the other hand has been promoted by Game Freak for a while. Also, you should check this out.

The trio has appearer in every installment (apparently) be it pokeballs or PKMN Trainer. I think if we get another new newcomer, it'll be a ivysaur replacement, and I doubt they'll give us another Captain Falcon clone over something with much more potential.(and yes I'm creative enough to make a non clone Blaziken moveset) We got Robin over the obvious Chrom. Logically Sceptile makes much more sense.

Firstly, that's not by any means "logical"; the "trio" is nothing more than an overblown observation. Secondly, there is no such thing as a "replacement" in the Super Smash Bros. series. Third, Chrom wasn't "obvious," just heavily speculated. According to Sakurai, Robin was chosen over him because of his unique moveset which incorporates magic attacks, differentiating greatly from the Fire Emblem swordsman staple. Finally, Blaziken wouldn't be "another Captain Falcon clone." Despite similar builds, Blaziken would be primed to have an entirely unique moveset, including an actual projectile in Flamethrower, a move with which it is heavily associated. What does hurt Blaziken's chances is its fire element (not because it's redundant with Charizard's in your "trio", but because several other characters use fire as well, like Ness, Mario, Ike, and Bowser), but that doesn't make it less viable than some random grass-type starter who everyone only began talking about after seeing Greninja's reveal.

I think the trio is more important than Mewtwo or Jiggs. I'd say its more important than pikachu to the game. I'm rambling. I just think they got two pokemon newcomers and Mewtwo back. So it was Chesnaught and Swampert vs Sceptile and Greninja. And they decide to not go with three heavy weight starters.

It's not more important. Mewtwo has unused data on Brawl's disc, more than any of the five characters from Melee that were cut. Jigglypuff has the most relevance after Mewtwo, if only because it's been in every game so far, has a simple, Kirby-like design, and has reasonable notability among casuals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jigglypuff#Promotion_and_reception). Sceptile doesn't have any of that, and neither do Chestnaught nor Swampert. I'm not even going to bother with your assertion that Pikachu is less important.

On top of all this, the Pokemon Trainer was a complete failure as a character in Brawl. Its gimmick was impractical, as was the whole "type effectiveness" system, which likely went straight to the graveyard with the Trainer, Squirtle, and Ivysaur. What makes you think a system centered on such a terrible character would return in SSB4, working on characters that can't even switch out? Type effectiveness was eluded by the Pokemon Change, which won't be available to Charizard or Greninja, so that would surely cause problems with character balance, don't you think?

 

[Masonomace]

Yo @ Blue Ninjakoopa sup. Mind if I reply to some of your posting? Sorry but thank you.
Anyone's rants are usually angry & go off on a tangent, he also didn't mean to offend, it all depends on how it's taken.

In response to the first sentence here, that may be true, but please consider that there isn't any hard evidence of Sakurai knowing about Ruby/Sapphire remakes at the time Greninja was being worked on. Sakurai also never disclosed whether or not Greninja's typing had anything to do with its conclusion. For all we know, the template given to Sakurai by Game Freak was of a creature with an ambiguous elemental type.
If there was any evidence of Sakurai outright saying something alike another pokemon reveal due to Hoenn remakes that'd be a dead give-away, not to mention Hoenn remakes were gonna happen the moment the line of remakes beginning since FRLG. HGSS was out late 2009 - 10. Sakurai in interviews & sources claiming he finalized the roster in 2012 leads to believe that gap of time makes any game that's already developed or in development scale from HGSS all the way to ORAS, see this time-line if you're curious about the times. This promotes the idea that a pokemon from Gen 2, 3, 4, or 5 have a chance. Seeing how the pokemon that get nominated as choices for bieng newcoming fighters, it's heavy on voting for Starteres, or Legendaries.

No, actually Sceptile's typing doesn't make it a more viable character choice than Blaziken. The "pattern" theory is weak, because it's known that Sakurai likes to swerve, troll, and do his own thing. Ill-perceived "patterns" don't supersede character relevance. Sceptile isn't notable enough, Blaziken on the other hand has been promoted by Game Freak for a while. Also, you should check this out.
According to Smash Brothers' game-play, mechanics, & elements, Sceptile is just as viable of a playable character as Blaziken if not a little more. Character relevance is a factor worth mentioning from GF promoting pokemon through Smash Brothers, but character relevance is not a crucial reason that decides who gets on the roster & who doesn't, this point puts both Sceptile & Blaziken at equal chances. Nice source btw that was interesting despite it's date being March 2012, although in the end not too surprising. Also if you haven't seen this, then you should check out this source as well. It was also in March 2012.

Firstly, that's not by any means "logical"; the "trio" is nothing more than an overblown observation. Secondly, there is no such thing as a "replacement" in the Super Smash Bros. series. Finally, Blaziken wouldn't be "another Captain Falcon clone." Despite similar builds, Blaziken would be primed to have an entirely unique moveset, including an actual projectile in Flamethrower, a move with which it is heavily associated. What does hurt Blaziken's chances is its fire element (not because it's redundant with Charizard's in your "trio", but because several other characters use fire as well, like Ness, Mario, Ike, and Bowser), but that doesn't make it less viable than some random grass-type starter who everyone only began talking about after seeing Greninja's reveal.
The starters being in the first games no matter how they appeared in the game through Cameo appearances or through a game element, they still were in the game. Let alone making starters in 64 like Charizard & Blastoise pokeballs back then, was a huge step for Pokeball summons, that small step over-time gets bigger & bigger, to the point of starters finally getting playable. I won't speak much here but if I'm not mistaken wasn't so clone-worthy of despite Melee being the Clone Wars, & was scrapped technically replaced by ? Blaziken is a worthy mention of an idea for a pokemon fighter in Smash Brothers, but a few kicks, some punching, Flame element, & mainly that's all it has. You can justify for Blaziken but honestly you can factor Blaziken's total move-set a mixture of 2 characters, 3 if I felt like throwing Kyaputen Farukon at you for clone-alert. Honestly Blaziken is a cool idea but what would a mix of, 's flame elemental-based attacks, & 's fighting style of arm & leg attacks, & being automatically compared to due to his already made-up move-set since 64, leave Blaziken with to differentiate himself from all 3 of those characters, just a projectile Fire attack? Flame element is checked, Fighting style is checked, Blaziken is relevant from marketing & promotion through his games & the anime, along with a Mega Evolution, but is his fighting characteristics that unique to make a stand for himself among the pokemon fighters in Sm4sh? Blaziken's chances, of being different with his fire-based attacks, when automatically compared to Charizard (competition towards Charizards spot imo), won't be much different when you compare the other characters with a built-in Fire-based attack move aka . Too much Fire. I've wanted a grass type starter to be in the hypothetical Sm4sh since 2011 when I actually took a lot of notice during playing Brawl 's , & re-minded of playing Emerald again & again always using Sceptile, then playing Project M's in 2012, re-minded twice why a Grass type in a Sm4sh would be awesome.

It's not more important. Mewtwo has unused data on Brawl's disc, more than any of the five characters from Melee that were cut. Jigglypuff has the most relevance after Mewtwo, if only because it's been in every game so far, has a simple, Kirby-like design, and has reasonable notability among casuals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jigglypuff#Promotion_and_reception). Sceptile doesn't have any of that, and neither do Chestnaught nor Swampert. I'm not even going to bother with your assertion that Pikachu is less important.
The original quote you replied to I think was referring to the handheld game's element of the starter's types, being the trio G/F/W. Not really toward Smash relations with the other Pokemon characters? Idk about that. However Purin's popularity in Japan is high-class making her painfully relevant, while having the huge appeal to the anime for the first 2 regions traveled about Kanto & Johto, but lost relevance of the puff soon before Hoenn anime was introduced. At this point Purin's only relevance she has & needs is her career in Smash Brothers, with her easy to make look & being similar to Sakurai's baby Kirby, she seems to be a shoe-in but you can't be too sure.. And again relevance outside of the games isn't a huge impacting factor for pokemon to return or be announced as newcomers into Smash Brothers, Sceptile being a popular grass-type with his design & unique characteristics can easily prove himself to be a playable worth ycharacter in Smash Bros.. Pikachu is thee mascot of everything pokemon besides the hand-held games excluding Pokemon Yellow, which I'm thinking now, is Reality_Ciak's debate topic being based on the hand-held games.. I still don't know for sure on that.

On top of all this, the Pokemon Trainer was a complete failure as a character in Brawl. Its gimmick was impractical, as was the whole "type effectiveness" system, which likely went straight to the graveyard with the Trainer, Squirtle, and Ivysaur. What makes you think a system centered on such a terrible character would return in SSB4, working on characters that can't even switch out? Type effectiveness was eluded by the Pokemon Change, which won't be available to Charizard or Greninja, so that would surely cause problems with character balance, don't you think?
Heh, I'm glad we're not alking about Stamina / Fatigue Value, but no Smash Brothers game is balanced, IF you were to say 64, Melee, or Brawl were balanced fighting games then this discussion is over. Changing aka Pokemon Switch AKA Zero Switching the Advanced Technique, as a gaming element was lacking, it had uses, but 90% of the time it was a gimmicki being punish-worthy of the risk, forced switching made sense for the Pokemon's game logic. Sakurai making a note of the realistic game-play for pokemon switch when KO'd, implementing the Type Effectiveness mechanic was impressive, they were all mechanics exactly inspired by the pokemon games themselves. When almost 20 characters out of 40 have either a decent fire-based move or a Fire-based KO move, ofc that ****s on 's MU's being viable & balanced along with tethers getting ledge-hog treatment. With the overflow of Fire attacks, & the lack of true balancing out Type Effectiveness's & it's real intent & game-play, got the most advantage out of the 3, not affected by his own Fire type except taking heavy damage from in the ditto MU, making pokemon battles versus each other both sharing the Type Effectiveness mechanic. The hilarious part is Type Effectiveness only needs 2 balancing steps to make it balanced & successful:
1. Type Effectiveness accounts for all of the current elemental-based attacks, this applies to the already existing elements of: Flame, Freezing, Electric, Darkness, Water, Grass. Aura/Steel & any other element I missed out on saying, all account for the hand-held game's Type Chart's accuracy, making said pokemon strong against certain types, or weak against those certain type of attacks.
2. Balance out the Type Effectiveness mechanic making only PKMN VS. PKMN MU's have it occur, meaning if your PKMN being, , , , & are fighting against each oher, then the TE mechanic is active. Therefore it doesn't nerf the Pokemon's MU against any non-pokemon.

Replies are in the quote~

 

[Reality_Ciak]

Before I begin, I think making sure your argument holds water is more important than worrying about "offending" anyone. "No offense" is never a good way to start off any response, because there's a 99.9999% chance the reader will infer that you're trying to be offensive in some way.


And right after you imply no offense, the first sentence in your argument contains crude sarcasm? Ouch. Anyway, the "triforce from zelda" has nothing to do with Link's, Zelda's, or Ganondorf's recognition, nor does it have anything to do with their status as playable characters in Melee, Brawl, and probably Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS. They're immensely popular and heavily demanded characters in their own right, so there goes your "triforce from zelda" analogy. I don't play Fire Emblem games, but I know enough to realize that there aren't nor have there ever been any lance- or axe-wielding characters in Super Smash Bros. What were you trying to argue there, and wouldn't the fact that there aren't even any prospective candidates for SSB4's roster from the FE universe that wield axes or lances hurt your argument that these supposed "trio"s are the ultimate factors in a character's inclusion?


In response to the first sentence here, that may be true, but please consider that there isn't any hard evidence of Sakurai knowing about Ruby/Sapphire remakes at the time Greninja was being worked on. Sakurai also never disclosed whether or not Greninja's typing had anything to do with its conclusion. For all we know, the template given to Sakurai by Game Freak was of a creature with an ambiguous elemental type.


No, actually Sceptile's typing doesn't make it a more viable character choice than Blaziken. The "pattern" theory is weak, because it's known that Sakurai likes to swerve, troll, and do his own thing. Ill-perceived "patterns" don't supersede character relevance. Sceptile isn't notable enough, Blaziken on the other hand has been promoted by Game Freak for a while. Also, you should check this out.


Firstly, that's not by any means "logical"; the "trio" is nothing more than an overblown observation. Secondly, there is no such thing as a "replacement" in the Super Smash Bros. series. Third, Chrom wasn't "obvious," just heavily speculated. According to Sakurai, Robin was chosen over him because of his unique moveset which incorporates magic attacks, differentiating greatly from the Fire Emblem swordsman staple. Finally, Blaziken wouldn't be "another Captain Falcon clone." Despite similar builds, Blaziken would be primed to have an entirely unique moveset, including an actual projectile in Flamethrower, a move with which it is heavily associated. What does hurt Blaziken's chances is its fire element (not because it's redundant with Charizard's in your "trio", but because several other characters use fire as well, like Ness, Mario, Ike, and Bowser), but that doesn't make it less viable than some random grass-type starter who everyone only began talking about after seeing Greninja's reveal.


It's not more important. Mewtwo has unused data on Brawl's disc, more than any of the five characters from Melee that were cut. Jigglypuff has the most relevance after Mewtwo, if only because it's been in every game so far, has a simple, Kirby-like design, and has reasonable notability among casuals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jigglypuff#Promotion_and_reception). Sceptile doesn't have any of that, and neither do Chestnaught nor Swampert. I'm not even going to bother with your assertion that Pikachu is less important.

On top of all this, the Pokemon Trainer was a complete failure as a character in Brawl. Its gimmick was impractical, as was the whole "type effectiveness" system, which likely went straight to the graveyard with the Trainer, Squirtle, and Ivysaur. What makes you think a system centered on such a terrible character would return in SSB4, working on characters that can't even switch out? Type effectiveness was eluded by the Pokemon Change, which won't be available to Charizard or Greninja, so that would surely cause problems with character balance, don't you think?

2 am rants of mine are not to be taken offensively or seriously. I was just racking up the thoughts that immediately crossed my mind. Twas the blunt truth not crude sarcasm. I was in no way trying to make a well organized argument, simply just throwing some ideas around. The typing trio only seems to mean nothing to people because it's grass type. If we had Charizard and a grass type, people would fully expect a water type. If we somehow had grass and water and no fire, people would be up in arms about their fire types. I think it's just starter preference bias for a lot of people. And before I say anymore, @ Masonomace is one of the coolest, least offensive people around here. I'm stopping unless called upon by Mason.
(Baton Pass)

On a side note. 2015 OR/AS movie in the CoroCoro leaks could make a Hoenn pokemon get that movie popularity edge.

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

Great responses @ Masonomace and @ Reality_Ciak , I'm glad we could keep this civil.

Masonomace, you've got some good points there overall, and I especially agree that there are too many flame users, so many that Sakurai has to have taken notice by now. However, I'm still not convinced that Sceptile is deserving of a spot on SSB4's roster, especially not because it would complete a fire-water-grass triangle (and I'm still not convinced that that's anything but an overblown observation). If Sceptile was a GameFreak favorite instead of Blaziken, then its inclusion would be realistic, however as it stands, there are better character choices in Mewtwo and Jigglypuff, and Blaziken in the distant third that again, like you said, kind of gets hurt by there being too much fire (though Blaziken vs. Charizard is a very hyped matchup inspired by the anime, which negates the redundancy argument). That's not to say that Sceptile wouldn't fit into Smash Bros., I'm just saying it barely has a chance, if any. You're going to have to provide more than "Well, I like him." Yeah, I like him too. So show me an individual article on Wikipedia, recognition by Video Game publishers and magazines (one of two publishers that did take notice of Sceptile said that it's outclassed by Meganium, ouch; also, the link you gave me was from a website that isn't very notable) and demand by said publishers for an appearance in Smash Bros. That's how I think Sakurai considers characters. That said, I disagree with you on relevance; look at every roster so far, every character (even the cut 5 from Melee) has had major relevance to their respective universe. I'm not so sure there'd be any demand for a Water-type in the game if Sceptile somehow made it in instead of Greninja, either.

On type effectiveness, there'd be a ton of intricacies coming with it, but I agree that if it does return, it should be only between Pokemon, and every type should be considered (i.e., Charizard's up smash would do Flying damage, which would be resisted by Pikachu, etc.). On the whole, however, I'd rather it just not return. Every character should take the same amount of damage from every attack, regardless of their universe. I doubt Sakurai would make special cases for Pokemon, since he only did so once, and it was on a character that was highly unpopular and difficult to use effectively.

This is slightly unrelated, but I recently found out that Dark Pit is actually quite popular in Japan (16th most popular prospective Smash Bros. character, according to CoroCoro). Now it's more likely that we'll see him than Sceptile, unfortunately.

 

[Reality_Ciak]

I really hope type effectiveness is not actually implimented, I just appreciate it symbolically. An event match where typing matters would be cool though. Has more of CoroCoro regarding Smash or Pokemon been leaked yet?

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

Yeah, I'd like to see an event match, since they normally revolve around modified physics. As for your question: Not to my knowledge. :I

 

[Masonomace]

Great responses @ Masonomace and @ Reality_Ciak , I'm glad we could keep this civil.

Masonomace, you've got some good points there overall, and I especially agree that there are too many flame users, so many that Sakurai has to have taken notice by now. However, I'm still not convinced that Sceptile is deserving of a spot on SSB4's roster, especially not because it would complete a fire-water-grass triangle (and I'm still not convinced that that's anything but an overblown observation). If Sceptile was a GameFreak favorite instead of Blaziken, then its inclusion would be realistic, however as it stands, there are better character choices in Mewtwo and Jigglypuff, and Blaziken in the distant third that again, like you said, kind of gets hurt by there being too much fire (though Blaziken vs. Charizard is a very hyped matchup inspired by the anime, which negates the redundancy argument). That's not to say that Sceptile wouldn't fit into Smash Bros., I'm just saying it barely has a chance, if any. You're going to have to provide more than "Well, I like him." Yeah, I like him too. So show me an individual article on Wikipedia, recognition by Video Game publishers and magazines (one of two publishers that did take notice of Sceptile said that it's outclassed by Meganium, ouch; also, the link you gave me was from a website that isn't very notable) and demand by said publishers for an appearance in Smash Bros. That's how I think Sakurai considers characters. That said, I disagree with you on relevance; look at every roster so far, every character (even the cut 5 from Melee) has had major relevance to their respective universe. I'm not so sure there'd be any demand for a Water-type in the game if Sceptile somehow made it in instead of Greninja, either.

On type effectiveness, there'd be a ton of intricacies coming with it, but I agree that if it does return, it should be only between Pokemon, and every type should be considered (i.e., Charizard's up smash would do Flying damage, which would be resisted by Pikachu, etc.). On the whole, however, I'd rather it just not return. Every character should take the same amount of damage from every attack, regardless of their universe. I doubt Sakurai would make special cases for Pokemon, since he only did so once, and it was on a character that was highly unpopular and difficult to use effectively.

This is slightly unrelated, but I recently found out that Dark Pit is actually quite popular in Japan (16th most popular prospective Smash Bros. character, according to CoroCoro). Now it's more likely that we'll see him than Sceptile, unfortunately.

UGH I've been typing on & off, been busy all day =/.
I try to stay decent 24/7. Sorry but thank you.
There's no concrete evidence & solidification that Sceptile is guaranteed, but when Sakurai wants to add in new & fun elements into the game whether it be through game modes, or characters, Sceptile fits the new element role of a unique mixed move-set, Robin & Megaman help promote that. Technically speaking because of the lack of concrete evidence, my posts appear as wishful thinking, which I do admit it's half of that. But when you have Master Balls coming into play making most of the legendaries pokeball summons, leaving mostly only starter pokemon. ORAS has been in the works for a while when thinking about how organized Game Freak is with developing the pokemon games, this sets Gen 3's chances at a good sceptile percentle for promotion, whether it be Swampert Sceptile or Blaziken. Gardevoir & other popular choices for Gen 3 became pokeballs. Sakurai has apologized ahead of time, letting smashers & smash fans know that he may not include every veteran back when the roster getting much bigger, this pertains to veterans including Purin & Mewtwo, so we can't be too sure that relevance makes characters on the roster untouchable. But at the same time Brawl was supposed to have technically 7 pokemon slots in the roster so it doesn't sound uncanny thinking about 7 pokemon characters in Smash. I won't lie & smiled, I thought that Charizard vs. Blaziken match in the Hoenn anime was semi-hype. I clicked that link & skimmed only for the Meganuim mentions & found these quotes,

plus I happen to think Meganium outclasses him in almost every way.

Okay, so Sceptile runs rings around Meganium in the Speed department but I'm still of the opinion that Meganium is the better Grass type overall.

These quotes straight from the source you gave were opinion-based & not entirely accurate. Off-topic not discussing Smash, Sceptile in the games is a close 2nd / 3rd place among the fully evolved grass starters said here:

Spoiler

Conclusion
Now we've gone through the quiet Grass-type Pokémon—Venusaur, Meganium, Sceptile, Torterra, and Serperior—and seen what they go for. Now, who stands out as the most solid Grass-type starter of all time? It should be clear.

Meganium just doesn't cut through, being a pretty mediocre Pokémon due to its stats, typing, and movepool. Serperior is similar to Meganium in its stats, but has a great Speed stat to get ahead of the competition, as well better moves to take advantage of; however, if Contrary Serperior were a reality at the moment, it would be fighting for a spot at the top. Torterra stands out for its pure power and versatility, sporting a great movepool; a really solid Pokémon throughout its few years on the field. Sceptile is a close second in this bout, as its great offensive power puts it ahead of the other three, but its frailty has been pushing it down the tiers throughout the years. This makes Venusaur the most solid Grass-type starter so far. Its constant positioning in UU as one of the best, and its current OU status, just shows how blessed this Pokémon is. Walk tall Venusaur; you really show what you need to succeed.

I'd love to show you an article or published news about how notable Sceptile is to the Pokemon Universe, sadly I cannot which hurts me because I'm from the Show-Me state. . .& can only give you these half-entertaining points on Sceptile & Blaziken in Sm4sh tumblr all from May 2014 this year:
http://challengerapproaching.tumblr.com/post/89177811667/we-dunno-if-crushes-is-really-all-that-fair
http://challengerapproaching.tumblr.../it-certainly-doesnt-hurt-the-odds-with-a-new
http://challengerapproaching.tumblr...alright-i-know-you-all-are-much-more-eager-to
http://challengerapproaching.tumblr.com/post/85531242600/blaziken-vs-sceptile-lets-debunk-stuff
http://challengerapproaching.tumblr.com/post/85436572964/accepting-sceptile-part-1
http://challengerapproaching.tumblr.com/post/85357980433/road-to-e3-choose-your-pokemon
http://challengerapproaching.tumblr.com/post/85322491675/the-type-trifecta-omega-ruby-alpha-sapphire
http://challengerapproaching.tumblr...its-true-nintendo-has-just-sent-out-word-that
http://challengerapproaching.tumblr.com/post/84155245167/time-to-revisit-the-mons
A poll from 400+ users to voted for who wanted to see more in Sm4sh.

but a quick question: What Grass Starter would EVER get noted & not become overshadowed, when compared to Fire & Water?. . .
Samely agreed on Type Effetiveness overall with your points & Reality_Ciak's points, in the end I wouldn't want it to come back, but its significance as a mechanic was plausible. When involving Pokemon, who DOESN'T think of, "MY CHARIZARD CAN BEAT YOUR VENUSAUR!. OH YEAH?! WELL. . .MY BLASTOISE COULD BEAT YOUR CHARIZARD!" I'd like this to be in Sm4sh. But if we wanna get technical Type Effectiveness has already been implemented since 64, electric-based attacks indicating that they do ridiculous knock-back against the entire cast, & Fire-based moves were more common as a projectile given to most of the cast.

 

[ferioku]

Add me in as a supporter =D, My favorite grass type!

 

[Masonomace]

Add me in as a supporter =D, My favorite grass type!

We'll get you ferioku, Thanks for Posting~

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

@ Masonomace : In my link, I wasn't saying I agreed with the IGN writer that Meganium outlclasses Sceptile (Meganium only has defensive uses, and even then is outclassed by the likes of Venusaur, Serperior, and Tangrowth), I was pointing out that, since she's a writer for a popular publisher (IGN), her opinion has some notability (albeit ill-informed).

I appreciate those links you posted, you've at least proven to me that fans mostly agree that Sceptile would be a better choice than Blaziken. However, that still doesn't strike out the innegligible Mewtwo and Jigglypuff. I'm sort of convinced at this point of two things: 1) Sakurai wants to do what he wants to do (helps Sceptile, plus there'd be a surprise factor in his inclusion as, like Ridley, he has a decent amount of demand, but at the same time isn't expected), and 2) Sakurai won't make any cuts, and will even find a way to implement some of the characters cut from Melee (Dr. Mario costume for Mario, and in Mewtwo's case, a full comeback). With all the space saved from there being no development-/storage-hogging Adventure Mode, the possibilities definitely look limitless, so wishful thinking is certainly justified.

 

[Masonomace]

@ Masonomace : In my link, I wasn't saying I agreed with the IGN writer that Meganium outlclasses Sceptile (Meganium only has defensive uses, and even then is outclassed by the likes of Venusaur, Serperior, and Tangrowth), I was pointing out that, since she's a writer for a popular publisher (IGN), her opinion has some notability (albeit ill-informed).

I appreciate those links you posted, you've at least proven to me that fans mostly agree that Sceptile would be a better choice than Blaziken. However, that still doesn't strike out the innegligible Mewtwo and Jigglypuff. I'm sort of convinced at this point of two things: 1) Sakurai wants to do what he wants to do (helps Sceptile, plus there'd be a surprise factor in his inclusion as, like Ridley, he has a decent amount of demand, but at the same time isn't expected), and 2) Sakurai won't make any cuts, and will even find a way to implement some of the characters cut from Melee (Dr. Mario costume for Mario, and in Mewtwo's case, a full comeback). With all the space saved from there being no development-/storage-hogging Adventure Mode, the possibilities definitely look limitless, so wishful thinking is certainly justified.

Ahh. .my mistake to the max. I didn't agree with those points either, which was why I unfortunately compared Meganium to the other Grass starters. I feel bad for that pokemon getting overshadowed so very hard but it repeats the fate that is Grass Starters. . .

I also appreciate the decent conversations being posted here, shows we care<3. And you're right, without a 1000002300+ hours of work put into an Adventure mode, it definitely ruined character's playability in Brawl from the time restraints. But with that said, 7 playable pokemon was going to happen, my foolish wishing is prepared for 8 or still 7 since roster slots as a number means little to Sakurai. When Sakurai apologized ahead of time, it may have put a heavy burden on us to assume he'd actually cut Purin & Mewtwo but from an open-minded perspective, It's unlikely, too unlikely. But in case it takes place, the shocking news shouldn't be unprepared.
Off-topic because of some supporters coming by & wanting, would you like to?

 

[Blue Ninjakoopa]

Ahh. .my mistake to the max. I didn't agree with those points either, which was why I unfortunately compared Meganium to the other Grass starters. I feel bad for that pokemon getting overshadowed so very hard but it repeats the fate that is Grass Starters. . .

I also appreciate the decent conversations being posted here, shows we care<3. And you're right, without a 1000002300+ hours of work put into an Adventure mode, it definitely ruined character's playability in Brawl from the time restraints. But with that said, 7 playable pokemon was going to happen, my foolish wishing is prepared for 8 or still 7 since roster slots as a number means little to Sakurai. When Sakurai apologized ahead of time, it may have put a heavy burden on us to assume he'd actually cut Purin & Mewtwo but from an open-minded perspective, It's unlikely, too unlikely. But in case it takes place, the shocking news shouldn't be unprepared.
Off-topic because of some supporters coming by & wanting, would you like to?

I know what you mean. Four of the six grass starters though have been my favorites over the other starters (Treecko, Turtwig, Snivy, Chespin). Grass-types normally get the shortest end of the stick in terms of offensive and defensive typing (has the most weaknesses of any elemental type and is resisted by the most types, it's enough to bring one to tears , however they'll go from tears of sorrow to tears of joy when I destroy everything with Mega Sceptile in Omega Ruby ).

100% agree with the second paragraph lol.

As for your question: would I like to what?

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

IMO we will at least have Mewtwo and Jigglypuff added.
Then for Sceptile, he could appear as DLC or be on-disc, dunno.
Really, even if it seems weak, the fire-water-grass trio logic is not that far off. If they add Sceptile, we have the face of Pokemon (Pikachu), the most powerful legendary (Mewtwo), the trio starter (Char, Gre, Scep), the mascott of Gen 4 (Lucario) and one who found his spot in smash for all games (Jigglypuff).
Why can't it happen ? And maybe add a 5th gen Pokemon so every gens got a representation in smash and we are good.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Here to show some support for Sceptile, my favourite starter from my favourite Pokemon games. Not hugely confident in his chances on the initial, but I think he stands a good shot at DLC (if DLC is a thing).

 

[Reality_Ciak]

I'm okay with him being DLC I guess. I mean if that's how he has to be put in. I'm curious on how DLC will be implimented. Will they be separated from the roster or integrated in? Because I would group the trio together.. I still think Jiggs is better suited for (free first day) DLC for the sake of organization and so Jiggs haters would have her cut and supports would have her instantly. But that's just how I see it. There would also have to be patches so people can play against them online. Would said patches make it possible to get DLC characters via Random? DLC shall be interesting if it truly is a thing. I just feel uneasy about it. Doesn't seem right. Unless it's just characters that were planned but cut for whatever reason.. So it's more of a fix than additional content.. Our only hint of DLC is Gematsu, right? Which has been compromised. I just find it out that Fire and Water were revealed together and then we are supposed to not expect Grass back too. I'm hoping Sceptile is just a secret character. DLC just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. For any character. Like I said unless it's just a fix. Which should be free. I'd pay for character swap clones and costumes. I mean I'd buy newcomers too but it seems wrong. I'd rather have them in the next game.

 

[Masonomace]

I know what you mean. Four of the six grass starters though have been my favorites over the other starters (Treecko, Turtwig, Snivy, Chespin). Grass-types normally get the shortest end of the stick in terms of offensive and defensive typing (has the most weaknesses of any elemental type and is resisted by the most types, it's enough to bring one to tears , however they'll go from tears of sorrow to tears of joy when I destroy everything with Mega Sceptile in Omega Ruby ).

100% agree with the second paragraph lol.

As for your question: would I like to what?

Ohhhh, so you've liked Grass Starters since Gen 3 & up. Radical. All of it is true. . .but Mega Sceptile's debut will change all that. His meta will be praised for Grass / Dragon hype, Lightningrod will be great for doubles / predicatble switch-ins to Electric. Also I was asking you if you'd like to support Sceptile, whether he's in Sm4sh or not, through DLC & OmegaRuby & AlphaSapphire.

IMO we will at least have Mewtwo and Jigglypuff added.
Then for Sceptile, he could appear as DLC or be on-disc, dunno.
Really, even if it seems weak, the fire-water-grass trio logic is not that far off. If they add Sceptile, we have the face of Pokemon (Pikachu), the most powerful legendary (Mewtwo), the trio starter (Char, Gre, Scep), the mascott of Gen 4 (Lucario) and one who found his spot in smash for all games (Jigglypuff).
Why can't it happen ? And maybe add a 5th gen Pokemon so every gens got a representation in smash and we are good.

Brawl was gonna have 7 pokemon slots. Sm4sh can get 8 pokemon slots if Sakurai wanted to. For Sceptile & a Gen. 5 rep too.

I'm okay with him being DLC I guess. I mean if that's how he has to be put in. I'm curious on how DLC will be implimented. Will they be separated from the roster or integrated in? Because I would group the trio together.. I still think Jiggs is better suited for (free first day) DLC for the sake of organization and so Jiggs haters would have her cut and supports would have her instantly. But that's just how I see it. There would also have to be patches so people can play against them online. Would said patches make it possible to get DLC characters via Random? DLC shall be interesting if it truly is a thing. I just feel uneasy about it. Doesn't seem right. Unless it's just characters that were planned but cut for whatever reason.. So it's more of a fix than additional content.. Our only hint of DLC is Gematsu, right? Which has been compromised. I just find it out that Fire and Water were revealed together and then we are supposed to not expect Grass back too. I'm hoping Sceptile is just a secret character. DLC just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. For any character. Like I said unless it's just a fix. Which should be free. I'd pay for character swap clones and costumes. I mean I'd buy newcomers too but it seems wrong. I'd rather have them in the next game.

This is a solution on what I might think they'd do it:
F-Zero GX as an example, had a garage where you could customize your machines & when you'd get to any select screen that involved racing with the pilots you unlocked, you could press to open your garage to bring out the 4 extra select-able machines to race with. 4 was that game's limit but that's a similar scenario when choosing a Sm4sh character. Having a DLC option to open up in the character's screen. DLC is a great step forward but Smash Brothers is such a respected Nintendo cross-over allowed 2nd & 3rd party characters. It must stay that way to prevent ridiculous characters becoming DLC. . .we all know we're talking about *cough*. alternate palette swaps costing something within a pack sounds reasonable. Along with hidden secret charcters only through DLC. Gotta go so that's all from me for now!

 

[Brother AJ]

Glad to see this thread getting some activity!

I'd be so happy if Sceptile was confirmed, but still I'm preparing myself for bad news. It'll bug me if it's just Charizard and Greninja, but I'll think about it in the following light if I have to: The favorite starter from the oldest gen and most current gen got into Smash. That seems more consistent! Just don't think about their types...

 

[Masonomace]

So what exactly helps the idea of Sceptile's in SSB4 becoming confirmed with what's been announced so far?:

Moves:

• Robin's Elwind? Green slashing crescent moves with a cutting SFX
• Robin's Nosferatu's mechanic of draining / damage + healing
• MegaMan's Leaf Shield resembling grass moves thrown that's considered a slashing move from a cutting SFX

Speculation:

• & confirmed.
• Both Fully Evolved, both filling 2 of the 3 types in the TTT.
• Half of pokemon's regions / generations missing a playable character from their own region a.k.a. Missing Hoenn the 3rd gen.
• with 2 possible MEvo's, may get both while w/o a MEvo in SSB4, Sceptile can fill in with his 1 & only MEvo.
• From the looks, the play-styles needing a balance between as a mid-range bruiser heavyweight, & as the close range rush-down lightweight, with a pokemon who's long-range with zoning poking & medium-weight.
• with an updated idle animation of being more upright, now the dinosaur crouching bent back is available perfect for Sceptile's raptor-like run.

So far. Not accounting for any demand, polls, articles, or marketing moves of him debuting in SSB4.

 

[Masonomace]

Re-posting here because why not, I wanna ask anyone's open opinion on how'd they feel with the 4 possible scenarios for Sceptile's destiny in SSB4:

1. De-confirmed in total, not shown off, representing the character as an idea AT ALL, non-existent 100%. Thoughts?
2. Pokeball summon. How would you feel & what would you like to see a Sceptile do once it appears? Discuss please.
3. DLC becoming confirmed. DLC is still not pushed or hinted at all, to my decent knowledge of it, but how would you feel?
4. Playable Status. Last & the best-case scenario, I almost don't even need to ask you about this because I wanted to have a 4th scenario for display. But if you feel like expressing a subjective or an objective post, please do so, there's never too much.

Also to anyone who wants to fill in what makes Sceptile's chances more solid, example is the post I typed above.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I like the term Sceptilists. Sceptilists vs Blazikrats. XD

How about The Grass Raptors vs the flaming chickens? That sounds more accurate

 

[pupNapoleon]

Re-posting here because why not, I wanna ask anyone's open opinion on how'd they feel with the 4 possible scenarios for Sceptile's destiny in SSB4:

1. De-confirmed in total, not shown off, representing the character as an idea AT ALL, non-existent 100%. Thoughts?
2. Pokeball summon. How would you feel & what would you like to see a Sceptile do once it appears? Discuss please.
3. DLC becoming confirmed. DLC is still not pushed or hinted at all, to my decent knowledge of it, but how would you feel?
4. Playable Status. Last & the best-case scenario, I almost don't even need to ask you about this because I wanted to have a 4th scenario for display. But if you feel like expressing a subjective or an objective post, please do so, there's never too much.

Also to anyone who wants to fill in what makes Sceptile's chances more solid, example is the post I typed above.

1- Impossible; Game Freak will market ORAS. I cannot FATHOM ZERO representation (unless Grovyle gets in, or something like that. Even then, I doubt it, heavily. HEAVILY. Game Freak has an agenda, and as one of three current second parties involved in smash that we know about, they have a huge say. The other got in Lucina and Robin.)

2- FRENZY PLANT; where he attacks character in the lead, whomever that is, because why not?

3- Delighted. He would still be playable. Marketed with ORAS. Proving he is vital to ORAS, I'd have personal satisfaction, perhaps more so than if he were actually playable, given the arguments I've had to make on his behalf to this forum. The fact that it would almost definitely be shortly after the games release means not long of a wait, either (and that it may even e free DLC)

4- I want him here, and I want it to knock out Jigglypuff :D
Naw; I finally would be okay with the pink puff, even if I would prefer King Boo to take her move set.

 

[LeeYawshee]

1- Impossible; Game Freak will market ORAS. I cannot FATHOM ZERO representation (unless Grovyle gets in, or something like that. Even then, I doubt it, heavily. HEAVILY. Game Freak has an agenda, and as one of three current second parties involved in smash that we know about, they have a huge say. The other got in Lucina and Robin.)

2- FRENZY PLANT; where he attacks character in the lead, whomever that is, because why not?

3- Delighted. He would still be playable. Marketed with ORAS. Proving he is vital to ORAS, I'd have personal satisfaction, perhaps more so than if he were actually playable, given the arguments I've had to make on his behalf to this forum. The fact that it would almost definitely be shortly after the games release means not long of a wait, either (and that it may even e free DLC)

4- I want him here, and I want it to knock out Jigglypuff :D
Naw; I finally would be okay with the pink puff, even if I would prefer King Boo to take her move set.

But... Jigglypuff's mad kicks! Those back airs of ultimate ass kicking.

Frenzy Plant seems like an attack that would come from below and hit all around the stage, but could be avoided perhaps by taking advantage of higher platforms or positioning yourself between them. A contrast to the Ice Climber's where it hits the middle but his does not hit the middle perhaps?

 

[pupNapoleon]

But... Jigglypuff's mad kicks! Those back airs of ultimate *** kicking.

Frenzy Plant seems like an attack that would come from below and hit all around the stage, but could be avoided perhaps by taking advantage of higher platforms or positioning yourself between them. A contrast to the Ice Climber's where it hits the middle but his does not hit the middle perhaps?

I just think Boo would utilize her move set much, much better

-Rest becomes a Scare (BOO!)
-Rollout because a pounce and charge attack
-Sing becomes incorporeal intangibility
-Any kicks utilize the tail
-the floating is the same