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The Fat Tax

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~ARES

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
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Rah-lay, NC
The Premise:


Obesity is a quickly growing issue, and one that has been garnering more and more media attention as the years have passed. Declared as an official epidemic by the World Health Organization in 1997, the number and ratio of overweight individuals is rising rapidly worldwide--the developed world suffers the worst, but no region bar Sub-Saharan Africa is excluded by this relatively new problem (link: Global Prevalence of Adult Obesity. The cause of this rising trend and its correlation with the developed world is widely agreed upon to relate to the growing availability and cheap price of high-fat foods. Fast food, soft drinks, microwavable foods, etc have had a profound effect on the obesity problem.

Among many suggested solutions is the so-called "fat tax". This type of initiative aims to place a revenue tax on unhealthy foods and drinks as a deterrent to both the manufacture and purchase of such foodstuffs. The most recent lobbying in this direction took place in New York and Maine, where state governments proposed placing a tax on sugary drinks on a "penny-per-ounce" basis (link: ABC News. But this approach to tackling obesity is certainly not new, and not exclusive to the United States. Countries such as the UK in 2004 have previously advanced taxes on unhealthy foods in an effort to combat overweightness (link: BBC World News).



The Debate:


Support in both the "for" and "against" camps have been growing throughout the years. Advocates for a fat tax have a slew of reasons; Kelly Brownell of Yale University and Thomas Frieden, the health commissioner of the City of New York, estimate that the tax would reduce a person's annual energy intake by 8000 calories and their weight by over a kilogram (New Scientist Magazine, Apr 18-24). The British Medical Journal claims up to 1,000 premature deaths from heart disease could be prevented with the introduction of the 2004 UK fat tax. Governments have utilized taxes to discourage other private decisions, such as the use of alcohol and cigarettes, so such an idea does not seem too farfetched.

On the other hand, the fat tax has no short supply of opponents. Some say a fat tax would do little to the prices of, say, snack food manufacturers if said companies wished to remain competitive. Others suggest that low-income families, who often rely on cheap meals, will be the hardest hit, whilst obesity remains to be a bigger problem in the middle class. Finally, some even say that a fat tax is over-government involvement in personal lives and a possible invasion of privacy according to some staunch opponents, including dear old Rush Limbaugh.

So here, we have two opposing sides on a controversial issue; what does the SWF Proving Grounds think? What points, counter-points, pros and cons do you guys have on this issue? Do you personally support or oppose a taxing measure on fattening foods? Could this be an effective tool in combating obesity?
 

HawaiianJigglyPuff

Smash Ace
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Sep 8, 2008
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624
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Tacoma(college)/Honolulu(winter/summer)
For a country like the U.S., it would be difficult to pass a fat tax. Because our country is so big on individual liberties, it doesn't seem likely that we could really get this going. This does not seem like the business of the government. Cigarettes =/= Big Macs. Alcohol =/= Whoppers

Cigarettes and alcohol have a strong impact on OTHERS. If I eat a big mac, it doesn't affect YOU. If the government REALLY wanted to help its citizens, then it would take care of all the stupid ways companies can get out of having to put ingredients on labels.
For example, companies can STILL say 0 grams of trans fat and yet IN THE INGREDIENTS LIST say "Partially hydrogenated oils." Additionally, if the amount is small enough, it can have partially hydrogenated oils and NOT have it in the ingredients. Plus, companies are still allowed to say 100% whole wheat and yet have enriched flour.

Honestly, I would LOVE to see a fat tax, but I would love to see the FDA make changes on those things I stated above, first.

Is it really the government's right to say "You can't be fat!"?
However, the government SHOULD be saying "hey if you eat this, you'll get fat. Let me give you A LOT OF GOOD INFORMATION to know what and what not to eat."

With companies being able to loophole their way around things, it is difficult for people to have the right information.

So publicly I say no to fat tax, but in my mind I'd love to see it happen.
 

Neisan

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
37
Location
Arkansas
I'm with Hawaiian JigglyPuff. While in theory, a fat tax is a great idea, and maybe good for a different country, America isn't the place. Our whole "thing" is personal freedom, and taxing something based on health, when it doesn't affect anyone else, isn't a good idea. Awareness and knowledge on the other hand should be what we're doing.

On the other hand, we could tax companies that don't offer a "healthy" alternative. Most fast food places do this now. The problem would be judging that. Revenue gained from these could be used for obesity programs. I'm not for that, but it is a possible alternative.
 

~ARES

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
78
Location
Rah-lay, NC
For a country like the U.S., it would be difficult to pass a fat tax. Because our country is so big on individual liberties, it doesn't seem likely that we could really get this going. This does not seem like the business of the government. Cigarettes =/= Big Macs. Alcohol =/= Whoppers
Personally, I don't see this ever happening, either. But what about the concept of this fat tax in general? Some governments in Europe and such are more involved with their citizenry... from a non-US and more general standpoint, do you feel the government has a right to try and shape the health of its citizens?

If the government REALLY wanted to help its citizens, then it would take care of all the stupid ways companies can get out of having to put ingredients on labels.
This is true, but it could also be one solution among many to counter this big problem.

Is it really the government's right to say "You can't be fat!"?
However, the government SHOULD be saying "hey if you eat this, you'll get fat. Let me give you A LOT OF GOOD INFORMATION to know what and what not to eat."
You would have the right to eat fatty foods, but it would just be discouraged in the same way alcohol and cigarettes are. Sure, those are detrimental to others, but the government has a place to promote the well-being of its citizens... it is the extent that's up to debate.

So publicly I say no to fat tax, but in my mind I'd love to see it happen.
I agree.

Revenue gained from these could be used for obesity programs. I'm not for that, but it is a possible alternative.
One of the primary arguements of the proponents of this measure. :laugh:

On the other hand, we could tax companies that don't offer a "healthy" alternative. Most fast food places do this now. The problem would be judging that.
We could take this a step further; you and Jiggly seem to promote personal freedoms. What about taxing the companies and not the consumers? Then we'd be taking the same approach I use on dirty industry in SimCity--taxes discourage them into being healthy. ;)
 

Neisan

Smash Cadet
Joined
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Messages
37
Location
Arkansas
Personally, I don't see this ever happening, either. But what about the concept of this fat tax in general? Some governments in Europe and such are more involved with their citizenry... from a non-US and more general standpoint, do you feel the government has a right to try and shape the health of its citizens?



This is true, but it could also be one solution among many to counter this big problem.



You would have the right to eat fatty foods, but it would just be discouraged in the same way alcohol and cigarettes are. Sure, those are detrimental to others, but the government has a place to promote the well-being of its citizens... it is the extent that's up to debate.



I agree.



One of the primary arguements of the proponents of this measure. :laugh:



We could take this a step further; you and Jiggly seem to promote personal freedoms. What about taxing the companies and not the consumers? Then we'd be taking the same approach I use on dirty industry in SimCity--taxes discourage them into being healthy. ;)
Haha like I said, I'm not for that measure. But I'd rather not tax the companies. They shouldn't be forced to offer a healthy alternative. It's the consumers choice to eat there in the first place.
But then again...those taxes could be used for comfy chairs. And I do like comfy chairs. :p
 

Miggz

Pancake Sandwiches
Joined
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1,473
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Bermuda [We Gotz De Triangle]
I'm actually for the fat tax. On the news nowadays all you hear are stories about how the economy is crippled, and the recession ect. Needless to say that money should be spent carefully nowadays. So why in the world should people stigmatized with obesity continue to buy things that are clearly unhealthy for them? This recession is causesb many people's life's to dramatically change. A lot of these changes can bring about stress, which can lead to depression, which can branch of into other negative signs. These negative signs can possibly cause the individual to eat a lot more junk food. I know when I am feeling stressed out I eat a lot, and it does make me feel better.

Eating all these fattening foods may make the individual "feel pleasurable" for a while. But if they keep it up, a lot of people will be suffering from a heart attack, only to find themselves in debt, struggling to pay for their hospital bill. Some people can argue that this fat tax is an invasion of privacy, and that government should just stay out of their lives. But their private life wouldn't be much of a life if its spent suffering from the drawbacks of fatty foods.
 

Lythium

underachiever
BRoomer
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I'm with Hawaiian JigglyPuff. While in theory, a fat tax is a great idea, and maybe good for a different country, America isn't the place. Our whole "thing" is personal freedom, and taxing something based on health, when it doesn't affect anyone else, isn't a good idea. Awareness and knowledge on the other hand should be what we're doing.
While I agree with you, America's whole "thing" may be personal freedom, but America is also a nation of corporations. Big companies. Making money, making jobs. America first. While I agree that this wouldn't work in America, it's also because many major corporations wouldn't stand for it.

Neisan said:
On the other hand, we could tax companies that don't offer a "healthy" alternative. Most fast food places do this now. The problem would be judging that. Revenue gained from these could be used for obesity programs. I'm not for that, but it is a possible alternative.
This is a good idea. I am in cahoots with you there. But I've never heard of any company doing this. Sources please?

But for lulz, they will take obese children away and charge parents with 'parental neglect' in Britain. Source.
 

Neisan

Smash Cadet
Joined
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37
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Arkansas
While I agree with you, America's whole "thing" may be personal freedom, but America is also a nation of corporations. Big companies. Making money, making jobs. America first. While I agree that this wouldn't work in America, it's also because many major corporations wouldn't stand for it.



This is a good idea. I am in cahoots with you there. But I've never heard of any company doing this. Sources please?

But for lulz, they will take obese children away and charge parents with 'parental neglect' in Britain. Source.
Nah, I meant that most large chains offer a healthy alternative. See McDonald's:
http://nutrition.mcdonalds.com/nutritionexchange/nutrition_mealSuggestions.html
Not really healthy, but they're trying.
And lol at the last sentence. I feel sorry for those with genetic problems. No kids for you!
 

Lythium

underachiever
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Nah, I meant that most large chains offer a healthy alternative. See McDonald's:
http://nutrition.mcdonalds.com/nutritionexchange/nutrition_mealSuggestions.html
Not really healthy, but they're trying.
And lol at the last sentence. I feel sorry for those with genetic problems. No kids for you!
Ah, good point. I forgot about the fat-free lettuce. Well, you're right. At least they're trying to get the healthy options out there. But in all seriousness, who goes to McDonald's and orders a hamburger, a snack size fruit and walnut salad, and 1% milk? There are still inherent problems that fast food is cheap. Would the fat tax actually fix this to force us to eat healthier? Would it be enough of a tax?
 

~ARES

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Messages
78
Location
Rah-lay, NC
I'm actually for the fat tax. On the news nowadays all you hear are stories about how the economy is crippled, and the recession ect. Needless to say that money should be spent carefully nowadays. So why in the world should people stigmatized with obesity continue to buy things that are clearly unhealthy for them? This recession is causesb many people's life's to dramatically change. A lot of these changes can bring about stress, which can lead to depression, which can branch of into other negative signs. These negative signs can possibly cause the individual to eat a lot more junk food. I know when I am feeling stressed out I eat a lot, and it does make me feel better.
There are a couple counter-points available right in your own post. If we're speaking of recession and being careful with money, it's typically the cheap foods (fast food, microwavables, etc) that are the unhealthy choices people make. And while I'm sure a cycle of depression and over-eating can be a reason for obesity, I don't think it's a main reason. I find it hard to imagine America being more depressed than Europe or Asia, yet we're so much fatter. I think it's our culture of easily available and cheap unhealthy food.


Ah, good point. I forgot about the fat-free lettuce. Well, you're right. At least they're trying to get the healthy options out there. But in all seriousness, who goes to McDonald's and orders a hamburger, a snack size fruit and walnut salad, and 1% milk?
Grilled snack wrap and a bottle of water is only 300~ calories and actually tastes good. :laugh: Though I always go for ranch, which is worse than the honey mustard, I think...


edit: didn't see this xD

There are still inherent problems that fast food is cheap. Would the fat tax actually fix this to force us to eat healthier? Would it be enough of a tax?
Not by itself, I don't believe. But if there was a real initiative in the government with multiple solutions to America's obesity problem, this might be a small boost in the right direction. At the veeery least, the government can generate a little bit of revenue from one of the largest market industries in the States.
 

Neisan

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
37
Location
Arkansas
Ah, good point. I forgot about the fat-free lettuce. Well, you're right. At least they're trying to get the healthy options out there. But in all seriousness, who goes to McDonald's and orders a hamburger, a snack size fruit and walnut salad, and 1% milk? There are still inherent problems that fast food is cheap. Would the fat tax actually fix this to force us to eat healthier? Would it be enough of a tax?
I actually don't think so. Like I've already said, the tax is a bad idea, but another point, there's another two scenarios for this "fat tax".
A. Consumers don't buy your product, company loses money.
B. Consumers continue to buy the product no matter what, problem not fixed. See: Cigarettes.
 

Lythium

underachiever
BRoomer
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Halifax, Nova Scotia
Not by itself, I don't believe. But if there was a real initiative in the government with multiple solutions to America's obesity problem, this might be a small boost in the right direction. At the veeery least, the government can generate a little bit of revenue from one of the largest market industries in the States.
I agree. Plus, it's possible that a percentage of the revenue could be put to good use, in aiding to decrease the rise of obesity. It's problematic that the knowledge is out there, but no one seems to be putting it to good use.

I actually don't think so. Like I've already said, the tax is a bad idea, but another point, there's another two scenarios for this "fat tax".
A. Consumers don't buy your product, company loses money.
B. Consumers continue to buy the product no matter what, problem not fixed. See: Cigarettes.
I can't see Scenario A coming to fruition. There's easily several large fast food chains, and they will have to keep their prices somewhat lowered for competition. I'm no economist, but this situation would force them to keep their prices to a minimum.

Scenario B, however, is the sad truth of the matter.
 

HawaiianJigglyPuff

Smash Ace
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624
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Tacoma(college)/Honolulu(winter/summer)
Let me add to this with the age-old "snowball effect" argument...

On what do we put a tax? If we tax this, why don't we tax this too? What is really the most unhealthy? WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE?

lulz

EDIT: To Miggs, eating healthier food actually will make you feel better than junk food. True story. If you want, I can cite a source for you, but I'm too lazy and tired right now to find something.
 

pacmansays

Smash Journeyman
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357
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England
Hmm well I'm quite opposed to this despite it being a good sentiment towards solving obesity I believe it will be ineffective.

My main objective is that people will still buy the food despite it costing more: in the UK we have taxes on cigarettes but people still go out and buy them. Most unhealthy foods are addictive themselves and even if we are unaware of it does cause a craving. It will take more than a slight price raise to stop people purchasing the food and if a big enough tax is put on then those people will probably be negatively effective. Your body prioritises food over finance and logic and will still send signals telling your body to go get more.

I have smaller issues with the idea such as if the companies are charged then how will they make up the lost money: cutting corners? Sacking workers? Yes, I believe the health of many people may outweigh the job of one person but your body is yours to do what you want. Following from that, a person has the right to eat what they want, its their body so they can put whatever they want in it (NOT innuendo), children are the ones who should be protected by the law as this diet in childhood leads to often irreversible weight problems in older age and the addiction for most of adult life.

I think steps should be made but perhaps this isn't the best one
 
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