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The Falco boards need a stage-discussion/what to counterpick against a char. thread.

Drolian

Drolian

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Cinder said:
:laugh: I was thinking the same thing...

So...what stages would be good to counter Link? I have a friend with a disturbingly good Link...I could use all the help I can get...
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Well, is that Link spammy?

If that's true, look at big places:
Final Destination
Dreamland
Rainbow Cruise
Pokemon Stadium
Pokefloats
Jungle Japes

You have to remember to keep the non-neutral stages in mind, and that you can play any stage in a set (even banned ones or already played ones) as long as both players agree on it.

Remember that you can combo the crap outta him, so if he doesn't spam a lot, you're better off with the smaller stages with smaller blastlines like Yoshi's, Fountain, Battlefield, etc.. Smaller stages also kinda ruins his recovery.

Also, I might make a guide from my knowlegde, but whatev. *shrug*
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

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yes, give the link MORE room to spam if he likes to spam, but if he doesnt like to spam make him not have to work to keep up to you. that makes a ton of sense.

if he likes to spam, pick a small stage so he wont be able to get room to spam. if he likes to stay in your face and fight, then pick a larger stage where you can annoy him a ton with lasers to mess up his game. know you always have a speed advantage so keep that in mind.
 
Miharu

Miharu

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Sveet said:
dont forget about DK64 and Jungle Japes.
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DK 64 is a rather bad stage for Falco. Larger than average boundaries, no edges, and platforms and general stage layout aren't so great for combos. Jungle Japes is fine, but some pretty ******** **** happens there :D

Rainbow Cruise is rather nice.
 
Mogwai

Mogwai

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I want to expect better of you, but I know not to
Hydro Kirby said:
DK 64 is a rather bad stage for Falco. Larger than average boundaries, no edges, and platforms and general stage layout aren't so great for combos. Jungle Japes is fine, but some pretty ******** **** happens there :D

Rainbow Cruise is rather nice.
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DK 64 is terrible for Falco, it's only a good option vs. Marth, and even then I think rainbow cruise or floats is a much better option.

Japes gets hype because of cool forward b tricks, but it's really not that good for Falco. If your opponent understands how you can move with illusions, your main advantage on the stage is gone and you're left with trying to either sucker people onto the side platforms to get kills or to spike them into the river. Even with cool tricksies, you can randomly get boned by claptrap too, so whatever, I've said my piece, I don't think it's a good stage for Falco.
 
Drolian

Drolian

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Sveet said:
yes, give the link MORE room to spam if he likes to spam, but if he doesnt like to spam make him not have to work to keep up to you. that makes a ton of sense.

if he likes to spam, pick a small stage so he wont be able to get room to spam. if he likes to stay in your face and fight, then pick a larger stage where you can annoy him a ton with lasers to mess up his game. know you always have a speed advantage so keep that in mind.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I messed up with typing. >.>

but if he camps you, you should outcamp him anyway -__-.

but yeah, you're right.

Um, if we really should make a discussion/guide, should we go like in order of the tier list? I'm no pro here so you guys should help me out. >_>

imo for Fox:
Top tier: Pokemon Stadium, Dreamland 64,
Mid tier: Final Destination (+ you got lasers, and combos, since unlike other characters, it's easier to combo fastfallers without platforms, - but they have chaingrabbing, full jump nair which outprioritizes you, etc.) Jungle Japes? (you have room to camp lasers and combo/dair spike, blastlines and high ceiling, but they can shine spike you easily and nair kinda ***** you here imo)
Low tier: Brinstar?, Mute City?, DK64? Pokefloats?

I'm also not sure where Battlefield will go. You can have combos and waveland combos, but it's pretty small, so you can't laser pressure as well, and they can easily pressure you and stuff. Same thing for Fountain of Dreams, but even less lasers. I'm, leaning on mid tier. Yoshi's is in mid I think too, you've got horizontal blastlines and what I said above, but there's a slightly lower ceiling, but someone correct me on that. No idea about Cruise, but you can camp them there. Onnett and Green Greens would be low tier too if they were still legal.

imo for Marth:
Top tier: Pokemon Stadium, Dreamland 64, DK 64, Japes?, Floats, Cruise
Mid tier: Final Destination, Battlefield
Low tier: Brinstar, Fountain of Dreams, Mute City, Yoshi's

imo for Sheik:
top tier: Pokemon Stadium, Final Destination, Cruise/Floats?
mid tier: Dream Land, Mute City? (they both pretty much suck here), Battlefield and Yoshi's? (might be top or low, I don't know, you've got combo's, so do they and needles etc.)
low tier: DK64, Fountain, Brinstar


...
Again, feel free to discuss/add on. I'm no pro, and this is my opinion/experiences/theories.
 
Drolian

Drolian

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saberhof said:
what should i counter vs peach? =O....i find it that FD sucks >_>...for me...
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mathos said:
Peach = Rainbow Cruise

see above for clarification :)
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Yep, Mathos knows his spamming. Rainbow Cruise is the spammiest place you can take Peach, that and Floats, but I find she could prolly do well on floats. Notice how your bad recovery and her good recovery don't matter in these stages very much, and the blastlines are good for you. The ceiling isn't that high either.

imo for Peach:
Top tier: Cruise, Floats, Yoshi's Story, Pokemon Stadium
Mid Tier: Final Destination, Battlefield (lols, Peach's get stuck underneath the stage sometimes, but the edges are glitchy for you, too). Dreamland is a pretty good stage for you, but trust me, if she knows anything about DI, she'll live for a long time.
Low tier: Mute City, Brinstar, DK 64?

I don't know where to put FoD, as it's kinda like Yoshi's, but the lowering platforms messes up your lasers and stuff, but then again, you can do the double-dair infinite on Peach there.

Japes, you can spam and spike, and the horizontal blastlines are good for you, but if you want vert kills...it's pretty high. So I don't know where to put this either.

On final destination...ugh, don't get grabbed. Use your lasers.

Funfact: Shine from shield (to dair for combos and bair to kill, maybe even nair) is a good counterattack against Peach's dash attack, Sheik's dash attack, and vs Fox and Falco. It can also hit behind you, like a backwards shield grab. It's pretty much better than a shieldgrab because Falco's grab game is very situational, and all you can get is basically down throw to techchase smash/aerial/or laser regrab or upthrow into aerial or spike.
 
A

Adi

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Just watch the beginning of Forward's first combo video or Forward vs. Darkrain as Fox. They're both in my video archive.
 
M

mathos

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Drolian said:
Yep, Mathos knows his spamming. Rainbow Cruise is the spammiest place you can take Peach, that and Floats, but I find she could prolly do well on floats. Notice how your bad recovery and her good recovery don't matter in these stages very much, and the blastlines are good for you. The ceiling isn't that high either.
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First of all I love and hate your sig at the same time. I'm at work and arghhhhhhhhh.

To more important business, imo Floats isn't as good as Cruise because Peach has a lot easier time camping back. With Floats theres tons of platforms to move to and pull turnips, while Falco can't do anything with lasers because you can't shoot through any of them. Unlike Cruise where if Peach wants to camp she has to be aware of the lasers and move to keep pulling.
 
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Jem.

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I know vs WA PR above me, I try to avoid FD. Silent Wolf can chain grab me Fox vs Falco, DJ Combo can do that and just dominate the field. If it randoms there I go, but I definently never counter.

On Luigi (Ka-Master) I go Yoshi's, so I can hope for a double shine kill, since he is so effing good.

I usually just go Pokemon Stadium :p
 
Drolian

Drolian

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I like Adi's sig. =D, do you like mine?

D.B said:
Hey drolian, wanna have a MM next time for 1$?. If you're comming to matts next week?
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Sure, wanna up the ante? ;)
Commander_cool said:
Cool phantasm tricks on jungle japes? someone please explain what they are and how to include them in my game on japes :D.
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Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkfBqaMF1aU
Don't get too carried away.

mathos said:
First of all I love and hate your sig at the same time. I'm at work and arghhhhhhhhh.

To more important business, imo Floats isn't as good as Cruise because Peach has a lot easier time camping back. With Floats theres tons of platforms to move to and pull turnips, while Falco can't do anything with lasers because you can't shoot through any of them. Unlike Cruise where if Peach wants to camp she has to be aware of the lasers and move to keep pulling.
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ololollool @ sig. Thanks for the advice though, I forgot to mention Peaches counterpick floats a lot >_<, not on Falco though, but it's still better for her than on Cruise.

CREA said:
Best non-neutral stage against Marth?
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DK64, Cruise, Pokefloats. Try Japes too for easy spikes (up throw to spike ***** here too), camping lasers, and not getting too badly grabbed, grab combo'd and just play out combo'd and edgeguarded. You can edgeguard, combo and manuver well on there too, but don't get carried away.

Jem. said:
I know vs WA PR above me, I try to avoid FD. Silent Wolf can chain grab me Fox vs Falco, DJ Combo can do that and just dominate the field. If it randoms there I go, but I definently never counter.

On Luigi (Ka-Master) I go Yoshi's, so I can hope for a double shine kill, since he is so effing good.

I usually just go Pokemon Stadium :p
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Yeah, Stadium isn't that good for Luigi, especially when it morphs, it doesn't help that falco's good there. I play with the best Luigi in the GTA and he doesn't like the moving stages, but you play Ka Master so you should know that. ;)

imo for Luigi:
top tier: Floats, Japes, Cruise
high: Stadium, Yoshis (low blastlines, doesn't use his tornado/missle recovery well here, and low ceiling for shine kills)
mid:final destination (laserrrrrrr), FoD (yay for double dairs and double dair semi-infinite), Battlefield
low:Dreamland (it's not that bad I think but he'll live forever), Mute City and Brinstar are pretty much givens too

I don't know about DK64, but the ceiling is high and the blastlines are high...the barrel could help you but I have a feeling it'll help him more. So it's probably low tier.
 
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