The Fairy with Fighting Spirit: Lip for Smash! *Play Panel de Pon on NSO!*

[smashkirby]

It'd be neat I guess, but I really don't want Lip's effective Smash Bros. debut to be in a fan game where a dead meme with a lightsaber dong is a character. I'd be more hyped if she showed up in Super Smash Flash 2, but I don't think they want to add any more characters after Pichu. Maybe if we pestered them enough (that's how Luffy got in).

OH MY GOSH. I'd give ANYTHING to have Lip in SSF2. Honestly, I've been expecting her to appear as a hidden character in that game for the longest time. Like, I don't even care that SSF2 is a Smash fangame. As long as Lip were to appear in a game THAT high-quality, I'm instantly all for it.

BTW, the devs of SSF2 are DEFINITELY adding more after Pichu. He was confirmed to be a hidden character, so more characters are certainly on the way for that game.

 

[Deleted member]

I certainly find it odd that, despite Sakurai apparently being a fan of the series, none of the fairies have made an appearance yet, not even as a trophy. Best there was were the stickers in Brawl and even then, they had the wrong names. Well, let's hope the new Smash will add Lip. I'd be happy to see her even as an Assist Trophy. Just... something. At least an Assist Trophy would provide us with an official good looking model. Looking at you, Captain Rainbow...

Speaking of models, the new announcement made me interested again, so I'm actually trying to rig the old model of mine. Now I've never rigged a model before, so it's a neat learning experience. I hope to get it done by this weekend.

Here's what i wanted to show at first:

Spoiler

But I wasn't really happy with the proportions, she looked like an odd mix between her "normal" and "chibi" art. So I made some adjustments:

Spoiler

Basically a bigger body and head, making her more like Ness and Lucas. I think it looks better like this.

 

[FunAtParties]

OH MY GOSH. I'd give ANYTHING to have Lip in SSF2. Honestly, I've been expecting her to appear as a hidden character in that game for the longest time. Like, I don't even care that SSF2 is a Smash fangame. As long as Lip were to appear in a game THAT high-quality, I'm instantly all for it.

BTW, the devs of SSF2 are DEFINITELY adding more after Pichu. He was confirmed to be a hidden character, so more characters are certainly on the way for that game.

I love it when characters make it in SSF2. People really sleep on that game. I know it's not the real thing, but c'mon they do a great job with it, and it's given characters like Chibi Robo, Isaac, and Tails a chance they're probably never going to get. I think fans of obscure characters should take more of an interest in it.

 

[PsychoJosh]

It seems nice, but the inclusion of non-game characters + Sora really puts me off that game.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

I love it when characters make it in SSF2. People really sleep on that game. I know it's not the real thing, but c'mon they do a great job with it, and it's given characters like Chibi Robo, Isaac, and Tails a chance they're probably never going to get. I think fans of obscure characters should take more of an interest in it.

Not only that, but I think it's so peculiar how Megaman debuted there, and his moveset is quite close to the Official Smash edition.

 

[FunAtParties]

It seems nice, but the inclusion of non-game characters + Sora really puts me off that game.

I'm not into them, but I think it's fine. It's a game doing it's own allstar thing which I respect.

 

[FunAtParties]

Not only that, but I think it's so peculiar how Megaman debuted there, and his moveset is quite close to the Official Smash edition.

Double post but we posted at about the same time so I'm risking it. They changed Mega man after his Smash reveal. He was pretty different before.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Double post but we posted at about the same time so I'm risking it. They changed Mega man after his Smash reveal. He was pretty different before.

Hmm... Oh. I were not aware of it, but I remember Megaman being part of SSF2 before SSB4.

 

[FunAtParties]

Hmm... Oh. I were not aware of it, but I remember Megaman being part of SSF2 before SSB4.

Yeah he was, iirc you can change between like 5 different abilities during the match. It was pretty cool. They kept some of the attacks they had beforehand, but most things were changed to rep his appearance in Smash 4 including the model.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Everything was better than SSF1.

It would be epic to see Lip in the project.

 

[N. Onymous]

Speaking of models, the new announcement made me interested again, so I'm actually trying to rig the old model of mine. Now I've never rigged a model before, so it's a neat learning experience. I hope to get it done by this weekend.

Looking great! You might want to rig the skirt too, so her legs don't clip through it.

Now that I'm on a computer again, I could actually see about whipping up some new textures for you if you'd like.

It seems nice, but the inclusion of non-game characters + Sora really puts me off that game.

Your alternative is having two Street Fighter reps, four Sonic reps, Snivy, and Deadmeme McLightsaberdong. Compared to Crusade, SSF2 is downright professional. (No Shantae, though, unfortunately.)

 

[RouffWestie]

Lip in SSF2 would be cool too. I never had as much fun as Crusade and don't like it's roster as much, but I wouldn't call anything about it bad - outside of 4 anime characters. I will admit they did a better job with Tails, Bomberman, so it's possible they would do a better job with Lip.

Your alternative is having two Street Fighter reps, four Sonic reps, Snivy, and Deadmeme McLightsaberdong. Compared to Crusade, SSF2 is downright professional. (No Shantae, though, unfortunately.)

I have too much fun with Knuckles and Shadow to have a problem with this.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Your alternative is having two Street Fighter reps, four Sonic reps, Snivy, and Deadmeme McLightsaberdong. Compared to Crusade, SSF2 is downright professional. (No Shantae, though, unfortunately.)

Well, I like Street Fighter. But yeah, four Sonic reps is indeed a little much. Even in the context of official Smash games I would only want Knuckles and/or Eggman and that's about it, Tails is boring as hell and Shadow is just an edgy Sonic clone.

Deadmeme Mclight-what? No idea who or what you're referring to there.

But overall, I think we should wait until after Smash Switch releases before we seriously start thinking about including Lip in a fanmade Smash. What if this is her time? Then you don't have to worry about it! All sorts of Nintendo stars will be uplifted for this game. Just gotta have faith!

 

[N. Onymous]

Deadmeme Mclight-what? No idea who or what you're referring to there.

I'm talking about Weegee.

It's a nice idea to petition for Lippy in SSF2, whether or not she's on the roster in SSB5, but I think special care would have to be taken to make sure her fanbase doesn't end up with a reputation of being obsessive whiners. There's an *ehem* certain someone in the Daisy support group who's infamous for this, and I'd really appreciate if it Lip's support group didn't have its own equivalent.

 

[PsychoJosh]

I think you'll be fine! Just don't let that fear overwhelm you with shyness.

We gotta get Lip's name out there and draw some more support for her, so just plunge forward with your head held high.

 

[RouffWestie]

I've started creating a video demonstration of how I envision Lip's playstyle in a Smash game. It's based on the moveset that I've posted earlier in the thread.
It's going to be very basic; limited animation, and as little unnecessary details as possible. Today I finished most of the standard and aerial attacks. I'm very eager to show more when I've made some progress, it's just so satisfying to be able to see these ideas in motion.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

Thanks RouffWestie that's actually pretty amazing stuff. I appreciate the visual aspects a lot. As Lip is a gem of a pipe-dream of mine! She does not get the most support, but the supporters who do love her, really does.

 

[TFree Mario's best friend]

I've started creating a video demonstration of how I envision Lip's playstyle in a Smash game. It's based on the moveset that I've posted earlier in the thread.
It's going to be very basic; limited animation, and as little unnecessary details as possible. Today I finished most of the standard and aerial attacks. I'm very eager to show more when I've made some progress, it's just so satisfying to be able to see these ideas in motion.

I really love the combo counter idea!

 

[N. Onymous]

That combo counter is an amazing idea and I'm not sure why I didn't think of it. Good stuff!

 

[TFree Mario's best friend]

That combo counter is an amazing idea and I'm not sure why I didn't think of it. Good stuff!

Have I been put down as a supporter?

 

[N. Onymous]

Have I been put down as a supporter?

I could have sworn you were on the list from last time, but I just checked and apparently you weren't. You're there now though. ^^

 

[PsychoJosh]

I've started creating a video demonstration of how I envision Lip's playstyle in a Smash game. It's based on the moveset that I've posted earlier in the thread.
It's going to be very basic; limited animation, and as little unnecessary details as possible. Today I finished most of the standard and aerial attacks. I'm very eager to show more when I've made some progress, it's just so satisfying to be able to see these ideas in motion.

Amazing! So, all her tilts and aerials do the panel popping effect which adds to a combo counter? And I assume that ties in to a garbage block special which gets larger depending on how big your last combo was?

Brilliant way of tying in the mechanics of a puzzle game into a fighter. I thought of something she could do involving building a tower of panels with specific effects tied to block colors, inspired by Kragg's block special from Rivals of Aether.

I love that you made an actual animation to show how it would work in game! I did something similar for Mona from Warioware where I just drew out all the attacks I pictured for her, but I never animated them. What program did you use to make this? You're clearly an experienced animator.

 

[TFree Mario's best friend]

I could have sworn you were on the list from last time, but I just checked and apparently you weren't. You're there now though. I

I could have sworn you were on the list from last time, but I just checked and apparently you weren't. You're there now though. ^^

Thank you! I noticed it months ago, but I didn't say anything until now.

 

[RouffWestie]

It's nice to see the positive reactions, thanks you guys!

Amazing! So, all her tilts and aerials do the panel popping effect which adds to a combo counter? And I assume that ties in to a garbage block special which gets larger depending on how big your last combo was?

Yes indeed! The size and power of the garbage block will correspond to that last combo.

Brilliant way of tying in the mechanics of a puzzle game into a fighter. I thought of something she could do involving building a tower of panels with specific effects tied to block colors, inspired by Kragg's block special from Rivals of Aether.

Yeah, I've also made up a neutral special that makes her lift a pillar of panels. One day I will show y'all how it works.

I love that you made an actual animation to show how it would work in game! I did something similar for Mona from Warioware where I just drew out all the attacks I pictured for her, but I never animated them. What program did you use to make this? You're clearly an experienced animator.

I used Adobe Flash. Back in high school I was the only student who was really into animation and I wanted to do my own tv series, video games, etc. I ended up doing a whole course dedicated to Flash (also Illustrator and Photoshop) then went to SCAD and got my B.F.A. in Animation.

 

[StormC]

Please put me as a supporter. Lip would be a great pick for a representation of SNES history (we already have tons of NES history) with the potential for a really cool moveset and representing a genre that gets barely acknowledged in Smash.

 

[RouffWestie]

I have now completed my perception of 3/4 Special Moves and done a whole dump of information about how Garbage Blocks would work. For some reason, I can't export the videos at a smaller size, so I have to put them all into spoilers.

Spoiler: Side Special: Cursor Flip

Spoiler: Down Special: Time Stop

Spoiler: All about Garbage Blocks

 

[PixelPasta]

I've started creating a video demonstration of how I envision Lip's playstyle in a Smash game. It's based on the moveset that I've posted earlier in the thread.
It's going to be very basic; limited animation, and as little unnecessary details as possible. Today I finished most of the standard and aerial attacks. I'm very eager to show more when I've made some progress, it's just so satisfying to be able to see these ideas in motion.

Wow, I really love the idea of her attacks having a three-hit effect. Just watching this I can totally hear the satisfying popping sounds in my head!
And the combo counter is a great way to implement a puzzle game inspired playstyle.

 

[MoveMan1]

So what you're saying is, all it takes to make Lip bottom tier is a higher platform or a ceiling. Because those garbage blocks look like they are very dependent on terrain not being there in order for them to work.

 

[N. Onymous]

Well she'd have other attacks, obviously. It's not like garbage blocks are her only move. Even top-tier characters in official Smash games have very situational moves.

 

[pupNapoleon]

OH MY GOSH. I'd give ANYTHING to have Lip in SSF2. Honestly, I've been expecting her to appear as a hidden character in that game for the longest time. Like, I don't even care that SSF2 is a Smash fangame. As long as Lip were to appear in a game THAT high-quality, I'm instantly all for it.

BTW, the devs of SSF2 are DEFINITELY adding more after Pichu. He was confirmed to be a hidden character, so more characters are certainly on the way for that game.

I really like a lot of what SSF/2 Does. They add some incredible characters- I'm looking at you Isaac, Chibi, Bomberman.

And yet on the flip side the anime infusion is still unsettling to me. But hey, it's free.
I just want so much for it.

Including more fairies. Unrelated to my LGBTQ channel... but I do love me some fairies.

I have now completed my perception of 3/4 Special Moves and done a whole dump of information about how Garbage Blocks would work. For some reason, I can't export the videos at a smaller size, so I have to put them all into spoilers.

Spoiler: Side Special: Cursor Flip

Spoiler: Down Special: Time Stop

Spoiler: All about Garbage Blocks

I love your animations man.
If youd like them to be, I would love to use them on my social media. Always looking for artists.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Gotta say I'm not as impressed by the rest of those ideas, sorry. I don't really like how her side and up special are based on the same mechanic and also how her smashes only change the horizontal positioning of the block. Does this mean that charging up the smash attacks is completely pointless? Because that seems counter-intuitive to Smash as a general idea. And Moveman1 also makes a good point that different terrain or platforms could make her smash attacks useless, for example if she's underneath the platforms in battlefield, she'd never be able to use them as long as she were standing underneath them.

I also don't like how a 7x block is an instant KO - I hate that mechanic in general, I feel like it goes completely against what Smash is all about in the first place. If Smash was meant to be a game where you could KO regardless of position on the stage then it would be a more traditional fighting game with health bars.

I LOVE the idea of Mr. Time as her down special though, that's very creative.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Gotta say I'm not as impressed by the rest of those ideas, sorry. I don't really like how her side and up special are based on the same mechanic and also how her smashes only change the positioning of the smash attack block. Does this mean that charging up the smash attacks is completely pointless? Because that seems counter-intuitive to Smash as a general idea.

I also don't like how a 7x block is an instant KO - I hate that mechanic in general, I feel like it goes completely against what Smash is all about in the first place. If Smash was meant to be a game where you could KO regardless of position on the stage then it would be a more traditional fighting game with health bars.

I LOVE the idea of Mr. Time as her down special though, that's creative.

I think it is at the least a great start. I'd love a few more special ideas put into it as well, to be fair.
Maybe a new side special, and instead, any of the special moves could allow you to switch orientation. At any point I would want her to easily be able to flip two tiles (her own included). That way she can essentially move through an attack from another person, and have that attack hit the person who was previously behind her.

It's all about mobility in movement. Flipping.

And then having some sort of way to implement the idea of wanting to get three in a row. Something related to putting things in the screen in their 'proper place."
And then a much needed, full on Tetris style final smash.

 

[bksbestbwoy]

I really like the ideas I see with this newer move set RouffWestie . I'm more familiar with the one made way back when (I think it was lightdasher?) someone from this or another Lip thread animated some concepts for specials:

I'm a big fan of the normals/A moves doing PdP like combos and building into something but I think the garbage blocks are better off as summonable B/special moves. Smash attacks that situational/terrain specific sound like a bad time. The use of Mr. Time is SO inspired though. Maybe you could replace the B move in this set with that. (Not to suggest anyone do anything of course)

 

[N. Onymous]

Yeah, while I do think the idea of her down smash getting bigger as she score more combos is interesting, I don't know if making a regular attack an OHKO is really a good idea, balance-wise. Lip deserves to be top-tier, but not by far the best character in the game. Let's avoid another Brawl Meta Knight situation and leave the instant-death crushes for final smashes and stages please!

As far as the up-special goes, I have to say, I kind of prefer the idea of Watabou airlifting her. The cursor should definitely still be there as her side special though. (Aaaand I'm just coming back around to my composite moveset, haha!)

 

[bksbestbwoy]

I think I'm going to try and make a move set for Lip myself. I said I was only going to stick to doing updates for the Takamaru one and a set for the Inklings but Lip is such a fascinating character they could build on if they so inclined. Playing with people's positioning is just grounds for all kinds of shenanigans and seeing the Mr. Time bit above reminded me that she could be gimmick central (in the best of ways).

Edit: Also, we're all clear that Lip's final smash should just straight up be a game of impromptu Panel de Pon right? The screen suddenly takes on a border with random other fairies cheering on Lip and the other screen (where the opponent would be in a proper PdP match) becomes a view of the stage. Garbage blocks that get generated just fall erratically on the playable screen.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Yeah, while I do think, the idea of her down smash getting bigge as she score more combos, I don't know if making a regular attack an OHKO is really a good idea, balance-wise. Lip deserves to be top-tier, but not by far the best character in the game. Let's avoid another Brawl Meta Knight situation and leave the instant-death crushes for final smashes and stages please!

The way it's presented, this move would certainly not make her the best character in the game, in fact if it were implemented this way she could have this OHKO move and still be one of the worst characters in the game.

Merely having an OHKO does not make you broken - Rainbow Mika and Balrog in Street Fighter 5 both have moves that can instantly KO their opponent, but much like the 7x block idea, they're extremely gimmicky and not useful within the scheme of their general gameplan. Just because they have OHKO moves doesn't make them the best characters in the game, in fact at the time of this writing they're considered upper mid tier at best. Many characters in fighting games have moves that do this, but are extremely situational and gimmicky, the same way Lip's 7x block is.

My concern is that this moveset is TOO situational to make her a good character. Truly good characters have a wide range of versatile and useful tools that can be used in any situation, or if they have a single devastating move, their tactics and other moves revolve around being able to set up and land the kill move, or punishing their opponents for trying to avoid it. However this movelist for Lip only makes it so that she's only useful when she has a combo stocked. This would mean that many matchups would be a severely uphill battle for her where if she weren't able to land any combos she would struggle to stay alive.

 

[N. Onymous]

I'm just not sold on the idea of a character in Smash having access to an instant-kill attack in general. Like you said, it doesn't really fit the whole "build up damage then knock them away" mechanics of the game. It would be unique, and uniqueness is what's considered most of all in a Smash Bros. character, but I don't personally think it's unique in a good way.

 

[PsychoJosh]

Yes, I spoke on that a bit. I don't think the instant kill "make a character vanish" mechanic has any place in Smash and I hope it's removed in the next one.

 

[RouffWestie]

Haha, I'm hearing some very good critique from both sides here and I love it.
I knew from the start it would be divisive and I'm perfectly okay with that, since of course it's all just hypothetical. I'm learning a lot more than I thought I would. Especially nice that many have pointed out the flaws I wasn't fully considering.

I think I'm going to try and make a move set for Lip myself. I said I was only going to stick to doing updates for the Takamaru one and a set for the Inklings but Lip is such a fascinating character they could build on if they so inclined. Playing with people's positioning is just grounds for all kinds of shenanigans and seeing the Mr. Time bit above reminded me that she could be gimmick central (in the best of ways).

Yes, please do that sometime. I would love to see your ideas too!

 

[Kapus]

The support here is amazing so far. Rouff's movesets are impressive (though I ditto the criticism about the specials) and I'm glad to see Tai rigging again. This is all rejuvenating my desire to play as Lip in Smash Bros once again.