The Everyman, Everywhere – A Mario Stage Discussion Thread

[Solharath]

Alrighty, I may not be a famous Mario(or, Famous' Mario for that matter), but I can hold my own against PR'd players in my state using Mario(for whatever that's worth(hint: nothing)). Thing is, matchup experience is only one side of the (Up-B)coin. Knowing your stage is a huge factor in eventually overpowering your opponent and getting the kill, or the much sought after gimp. Not all ledges are created equal, after all.

I'm looking what tricks we can use against characters, broad and specific cases, to edge out an advantage. This involves situational setups and effectively camping with fireballs.

Stages*

Majestic.​

I love platforms. Mario loves platforms. Problem is, a lot of our harder matchups also love platforms. So what can we do here that is situational compared to say, Smashville? Personally I like living dangerously on the top platform. Depending on your opponent, you'll pull them in with promises of sharking through the bottom, and as nice as some Uairs are in this game, certain opponents can be left vaguely vulnerable. I bring this up because with the right input, you can slip through a platform out of shield and nab a quick Nair or uair of your own, or chase with safe dair.

Now, there are things every Mario main knows, like how Mario's utilt can clip through up to the platform above him if he's standing on the main one. However, you have no ground move that will reach the middle platform from a middle tiered one, outside of UpB.

Speaking of UpB, it's really neat here. Not only to the slants on the edges help not only with recovery and catching poorly spaced opponents off guard, but you can UpB straight up to the top platform with the right input. It's a great practicing ground for UpB control when you're getting serious with your Mario, because the difference between a straight-up UpB and a reverse Up-B is often similar to the difference in a stock, and in most cases, a match. UpB is quick, and as I'll talk about in later stages, a great surprise KO move via stage spiking.

Other great Battlefield tidbits:

Walljump to recover.

It should also be noted that Mario is pretty good at forcing the backwards edge slip with his aerials, which leads to a jab lock to whatever you want if they can't tech the slip. Mario himself can tech the slip.

This is a good video for showcasing who you can edge slip and punish, for those who haven't seen it.

[P]ut into use is SHDair when I'm underneath one of the lower platforms here while the opponent is on that platform... safe pressure if they shield, and combos into DJ Uair if you hit. The mix-up potential on shield is immense, and can help begin a jab-lock using the edge-slip mechanics.

Just be careful vs characters that can upB out of our dair, because that'll still generally work, even if you're below the platform.

-Pros
--Platforms are a plumbers best friend
--Walljump the edges for another recovery option
--Angled-up UpB reaches the center platform
--Mario can tech edgeslips from the middle platforms
--Utilt sharks the middle platforms for most characters

-Cons
--Characters that do better on platforms have an advantage over Mario
--MetaKnight

Characters to bring to Battlefield: Snake, ICs, Diddy
Characters to avoid: MK, Marth, Donkey Kong

*I'll pretty that up sometime later when I'm feeling less lazy

 

[gothrax]

Uhh i cant really think of anything helpfull for this stage?
But i do like to do a little move where you short hop of a side platform away from the stage and then cape stall away from the stage until the oponent tries somthin and you can almost always getem with a bair

But i guess thats just another version of the baiting spike thing mario can do

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Walljumping to recover was not mentioned. Or walljumping to get back up at all.

It's pretty damn good.

 

[Solharath]

Walljumping to recover was not mentioned. Or walljumping to get back up at all.

It's pretty damn good.

I considered it, but I decided to leave it up to further discussion before I make any edits to the OP or do a summary post. What I don't like about the walljumps here is that you have to use your double jump to trigger the proximity to the walljumpable area, so you could easily be flinging yourself without invinciblity frames out into the open with nothing but your UpB to recover with should something go wrong.

Not that I don't walljump like a boss anyway. Bair everyday.

Other things I hadn't mentioned that, while I did say you could reach through the platform below with utilt, is that some characters can't be hit like that. Like, for instance, Marth. Unless he crouches(or alternatively, the exact frame or two where he does a hard landing), you cannot utilt him through the platform. His idle animation places his hitbox within glancing blow territory, but why the hell would a Marth be standing there that long with the Mario underneath him is beyond me.

 

[BSP]

It should also be noted that Mario is pretty good at forcing the backwards edge slip with his aerials, which leads to a jab lock to whatever you want if they can't tech the slip. Mario himself can tech the slip.

 

[Solharath]

On Battlefield, I usually go for doublejumping the slip to punish endlag to the move that knocked me off or nairing for as little landing lag as possible. I'll tech if I really feel like I can be put in an advantageous or a more favorable neutral position, but unless their baiting the double jump, a uair can usually catch them off guard.

This is a good video for showcasing who you can edge slip and punish, for those who haven't seen it.

 

[Coolwhip]

I've seen that video before. I like getting people in that situation with mario when they're on the platform (Near by the ledge of course). Usually get them with nair, fireball or cape while their shielding, then it's jab locking time.
I do it in one FH (full hop) though.

<---He's really god-tier, but no one cares.

 

[steep]

I'm glad to see that you mentioned using up-b to get up to that top platform. It can lead to some interesting combo strings. Up tilt, Up tilt, Up b angled back, chase their DI and continue with a Uair string or get a surprise KO with Usmash off that top platform are just a couple possibilities. I have gotten some nice strings with that strategy.

In case you are reading this and are unsure how to make up b land on the top platform, just thought I'd clarify: Use up b, then press away from the direction you are facing as soon as you leave the ground. You should see Mario go straight up with up b instead of at an angle, and he gains quite a bit of height as compared to a normal up b. If you press back too early, Mario will turn around and up b, and if you do it too late, you will use a normally angled up b. It is definitely a useful skill to learn!

 

[Solharath]

Yeah, but remember Marios, players can and will SDI your jab locks, so be prepared to walk fast to catch up, or throw out a stutterstepped F-Smash to chase and kill if need be. It's a tough lesson to learn when you watch your opponent SDI away from a practically game-winning jab lock combo.

Oh, and knowing how to SDI during a jab/laser lock is a great way of making it end sooner anyway, so at least it's a two way street. Unless you're fighting Metaknight, who can and will just Dtilt you from wherever he wants to dtilt you.

But anyway, back to Battlefield. I love Battlefield. I love wall jumping, I love platform cancelling, and I love uair. RARuair is probably one of my favorite moves, and it's just the best here on Battlefield. Opponent's on a platform? RARuair to get them into a potential movestring, or to put them way out over the expanse of death. And it's something you can usually do after a utilt from the main platform.

Utilt > Dashdance into RAR > Uair > Followup based on percentage/DI. That kind of stuff is great and typically only available here on Battlefield.

 

[steep]

Also remember that you can't actually platform cancel on Battlefield.

 

[Coolwhip]

Also remember that you can't actually platform cancel on Battlefield.

I was gonna say this. But he beat me to it.

 

[steep]

^^ Great minds think alike.

 

[Matador]

A2Z doesn't post here much anymore, but one thing he suggested that I really put into use is SHDair when I'm underneath one of the lower platforms here while the opponent is on that platform. It's amazing, safe pressure if they shield, and combos into DJ Uair if you hit. The mix-up potential on shield is immense, and can help begin a jab-lock using the edge-slip mechanics.

Just be careful vs characters that can upB out of our dair, because that'll still generally work, even if you're below the platform.

 

[Solharath]

Also remember that you can't actually platform cancel on Battlefield.

I had actually meant you can start certain moves and finish them before landing on a platform. I forgot the actual term, I guess, but you can jump and start a fair from the main platform and land on one of the floating platforms with no lag on landing. Platform... auto cancel or something.

I guess I should move on to the next stage here soon. I've been theory crafting with some situational setups that might be able to assist in gimping, but I've yet to get my hands on an appropriate... file... ever since my Wii broke at PS4.

So go over any more tricks and solid information before I sum up and move on to the next stage.

 

[Solharath]

Back to Top​

Final Destination

Gorramit.​

Yeah, I'm not very good at objective reviews of stages, but I hate this stage. Wheras Battlefield gives Mario his bread and butter, Final Destination is where everything the plumber knows and loves becomes much more risky. However, F.L.U.D.D. can be used to gimp low recoveries by forcing them into the lip, but be careful not to fast-fall your downB.

On FD, it's typically business as usual. Our edgeguarding is a little better due to the lack of platforms; the opponent can only recover on the ledge or onstage. This is good vs spacies who have linear recoveries and rely on those sorts of mix-ups. Same with DK, Bowser, CF, etc... Anyone with a linear recovery. While WE'RE on the ledge, however, we have a few less options. We can't upB to a platform from the ledge like we can on most of the other neutrals, so that option is gone. RCO lag hurts us quite a bit too... especially vs D3 on this stage. I think that'll be our main problem here. Luckily for us though, we can walljump on the ledge as a small mix-up ledge option. We can also walljump underneath the lip to help mix-up our stalling if needed.

Lack of platforms means lack of combo pressure. Thankfully, we benefit from that lack of combo pressure vs higher tier characters since they can pressure more effectively using them... The simplicity of the stage makes for much easier walling too in match-ups that call for it... and makes it far easier to predict landings or cover them with fireballs.

The only thing I want to add to Matador's write-up is going to Final Destination is not a death sentence by any stretch of the word. It's just FD's stage design doesn't give Mario much to work with. You can still take on any character here... while it's easier to edgeguard and get gimp KOs, it's harder to get Kills that isn't from F-Smash.

-Pros
--Easier to predict recovering opponents.
--Less combo pressure from opponents
--Walljump mixups on the lip

-Cons
--Our recovery is more predictable
--Whole stage is chaingrab bait
--Less combo pressure of our own

Characters to bring to Final Destination: MK, Luigi, Peach
Characters to avoid on Final Destination: ICs, D3, Falco, Fox, Diddy

 

[HeroMystic]

This stage is okay. The problem is mainly that other characters have pretty strong gains here from the "nothingness". Mario works best when he has an environment to utilize, and FD isn't one of them.

FD isn't really a stage I would use as a counterpick, but I would definitely ban it against characters like Diddy, Snake, etc, who have a very strong camp game.

 

[Solharath]

You ban FD against Snake, he takes you to Halberd... or Smashville. Personally, I find nothing worthwhile about this stage for Mario.

 

[HeroMystic]

Obviously your prioritize banning worse stages than FD when nessecary.

 

[tru0067]

FD for Mario.........

Avoid it

 

[Solharath]

Yes, we've pretty much established that we need to avoid Final Destination whenever possible, but in the interest of discussion, let's say we're fighting a Snake and we have to ban Halberd and for some reason he doesn't go Smashville, he goes FD(possibly to limit our options).

We're Mario on FD. What do?

 

[Matador]

I choose FD vs MK mainly because he doesn't particularly like it. It's probably our best neutral vs him.

On FD, it's typically business as usual. Our edgeguarding is a little better due to the lack of platforms; the opponent can only recover on the ledge or onstage. This is good vs spacies who have linear recoveries and rely on those sorts of mix-ups. Same with DK, Bowser, CF, etc... Anyone with a linear recovery. While WE'RE on the ledge, however, we have a few less options. We can't upB to a platform from the ledge like we can on most of the other neutrals, so that option is gone. RCO lag hurts us quite a bit too... especially vs D3 on this stage. I think that'll be our main problem here. Luckily for us though, we can walljump on the ledge as a small mix-up ledge option. We can also walljump underneath the lip to help mix-up our stalling if needed.

Lack of platforms means lack of combo pressure. Thankfully, we benefit from that lack of combo pressure vs higher tier characters since they can pressure more effectively using them. That's one reason why I'm okay with going here vs MK. The simplicity of the stage makes for much easier walling too in match-ups that call for it (Wario, Peach, Luigi, etc.) and makes it far easier to predict landings or cover them with fireballs. That said, we don't want this stage vs charcters that wall better than we do (Falco, Lucario, Link), characters have obvious CG advantages (ICs, D3, Falco), characters that are adept at covering landing options (Sheik, Diddy, Sonic), and characters that we can easily pressure better on other neutrals (Bowser, DK, Ike).

Edit: Thanks Cwhip XD

 

[Coolwhip]

Very good write up, matador. -_^b

 

[HeroMystic]

The only thing I want to add to Matador's write-up is going to Final Destination is not a death sentence by any stretch of the word. It's just FD's stage design doesn't give Mario much to work with. You can still take on any character here, and the only time I would prioritize banning FD is against Diddy, D3, and IC's.

Personally, the only problem I have with this stage is while it's easier to edgeguard and get gimp KOs, it's harder to get Kills that isn't from F-Smash.

 

[Solharath]

Updated OP with Stage Select, and with Battlefield information. Final Destination Post also updated.

 

[Solharath]

Smashville

The platform is key.​

This is a stage that is very hot and cold, and don't be surprised to see a match shift along with the floating platform. It's a position of power, or a dangerous foothold. I've heard tell that the Japanese believe this to be the most balanced stage of them all, and you'd be hard pressed to find a top player that doesn't choose this stage for the neutral. So what does that mean for Mario?

- Remember to short hop your fireballs, especially when using the platform to expedite your retreat!
- Some characters can utilize the platform a lot better than you can, like Snake using mobile C4 and mines, or Metaknight spamming his UpB even more than usual!
- The moving platform often results in planking until it shows up overhead to aid recovery.

Alright Marios, what do we do here?

 

[Matador]

I'll have something a little more helpful when I have some free time. For now though, just don't take MK here. It's a bad idea, imo.

 

[Solharath]

Still waiting on Matador post.

FYI when fighting the ICs here and you're stuck on a ledge, be EXTRA CAREFUL about how to get off the ledge to get on the floating platform above(if that's your strategy, and really, I can't see why that wouldn't be). A good ICs will usually catch a ledge jump with a grab(especially 100%+), or rush you down with a powerful fair or uair. Or nair. Really just be careful.

I like to wait until the platform is at it's furthest, detach from the ledge and then make it over there with Up-B if the climbers are far enough. If they commit to chasing with an aerial, I like to go with an aggressive Up-B instead if I'll land on the platform or know I'll hit and be safe enough to land.

 

[Matador]

*super late reply*

Smashville is pretty great, I think. As far as neutrals go, anyway. I'm fine with this stage in most match-ups aside from MK and maybe Snake. The platform has multiple uses and serves different purposes from character to character, match-up to match-up. Can be used to retreat, maintain pressure, help recover, help edgeguard, and just mindgame your opponent in general as Mario. Again, higher tier characters can use it more effectively than we can, but there are still a few perks.

Because of the slants on the ledges, we can't walljump here when stuck on the ledge, so that sucks a bit. BUT, we gain the option to let go of the ledge and upB to the platform if it's behind Mario for a safe recovery. If it's not behind you, just simply stall for a few seconds until it shows up. This is pretty great because it kills the RCO lag, and it's not that easy to punish if you space your upB just low enough that you land on the platform with minimal cooldown. Just don't do it against MK or someone who can get out there and immediately kill you for the option unless you're reading that your opponent won't think to follow you. It's a tad risky, but it gets your feet back on the ground when you're pressured at the ledge like that.

In match-ups where you need to be defensive, the platform is notoriously awesome for aiding in zoning. It's pretty easy to punish someone being a little too aggressive about getting you off of the platform if you're guarding your space properly (unless they're MK or another character that excels in platform pressure). Inversely, if you're trying to maintain pressure while you have momentum, you've got extra options to combat their defensive ones. As I mentioned before with BF, dair is amazing for eating shields from below and forcing unsafe defensive options, especially since it has low ending lag which affords us quick follow-ups. Also, if you don't know how to platform cancel, it's a useful tool to have at times. I'd invest a little time into at least learning to do it semi-consistently just for gaining a slight advantage in some situations.

But yeah, honestly, the only match-up I wouldn't do here is Mario vs MK. The safety that it gives his shuttleloop is just something that isn't worth risking. Strike/ban this, and try to get him to FD.