The ethics of having a Ness main friend

[vaderseven]

Greetings Ness Board.

I recently discovered a GREAT ness player that lives just minutes from my apartment. I am overjoyed to know another smasher in the area, especially one that is better than I.

Now lets get to the point. The problem is I am a marth main. Ever heard of that cool 1337 combo that involves, you know, grab releasing ness until the ness player breaks thier controller into your TV? I don't do it. I have known of it since it was discovered and always just wrote it off in my head as, "lol poor Ness!" and moved on.

Since I met the great lady y1nk though, I have started to think more activily about the matchup. I went through and checked both the marth and ness boards matchup discussions and it would seem that everyone in both boards ACCEPTS the fact that the chain grab is real.

I know it is banned in at least some tournaments and y1nk told me of a tourny where the organizer came over and forced a rematch because of it.

So now my questions -

1. What EXACTLY constitues a breaking of the no grab release infinate rule? Is it acceptable for marth to grab, pummel, release, grab, pummel, smash (or some other version that involves a regrab but *does* have an end).

2. I read about all the tricks to maximize the breaking of the combo, it is still tech. an infinate correct?

3. In the average tournament that uses rules acceptable to the community, what rules apply to this matchup?


I would ask this in the matchup threads on each board but it seems that discusion of the matter was just not present.



Hi lady y1nk.



edit -

I ask all this not because i want an OK to be a cheap ***. I want to know what the accepted rules are AND I want to be able to give both myself AND yink good experience. If marth is allowed to do this grab BS then I would think she would want to be well versed in the escape tactics that are around.


edit x2 -

MLG has banned the grab release infini combo : http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=269919 (see gameplay rule #1)

 

[Levitas]

Welcome to the ness boards

1. Whatever the rules stipulate in the tournament. If the ban at the tournament says GR>G is banned, don't do it. etc

2. As far as my testing has shown, there is no way to break the infinite (aside from reaching the end of the stage). Other people have made claims to the contrary. I trust my testing, but if someone else has better methods than playing the game in debug mode and attempting any suggested inputs, they might be right. I've concluded at this point that if such a thing were to exist, it'd at the very least be much more luck than skill.

3. I have not seen any ban of GR infinites in my area.

 

[vaderseven]

2. As far as my testing has shown, there is no way to break the infinite (aside from reaching the end of the stage). Other people have made claims to the contrary. I trust my testing, but if someone else has better methods than playing the game in debug mode and attempting any suggested inputs, they might be right. I've concluded at this point that if such a thing were to exist, it'd at the very least be much more luck than skill.

3. I have not seen any ban of GR infinites in my area.

@ 2 - Ya thats what the marth boards say too. You can do tricks like remaping C-Stick to B moves and flicking the C stick while rolling the control stick which makes you break SOONER than expected so you can outtime the marth's A spam but ya... thats not really as much a break as something that can cause the marth to mess up.

Im gonna force yink to try to break it next time we play just to see.

@ 3 - ****. I have seen some where is banned in the midwest at least ***** more and get it banned imo.

 

[Bartolon]

Marth doesn't need to use the regrab on ness to win.. so don't use it

 

[vaderseven]

Marth doesn't need to use the regrab on ness to win.. so don't use it

Correct!

The question is, if every marth DOESNT feel this way, what is the right move?

 

[Uffe]

Fighting Marth is fun, but difficult. A good Marth shouldn't have to rely on a death grab if he or she is truly that good with said character. Using fair or short hop nair should do fine. But fighting OmegaXF, I've come to learn a few things to deal with Marth, though I had never defeated him. Still, it was great practice and he didn't have to use the death grab. If you're using Marth and fighting Ness, I don't think learning how to deal with him should be a major problem.

 

[vaderseven]

Now the 10 million dollar question.

You are a marth player in a match and there is 500 dollars at stake. One stock left on each player. Ness is at 60% dmg and you are at 190% dmg.

You grab ness.

What do you do?

 

[MrsSaturnandWatch]

I would laugh and get my friends to trash talk the fellow

 

[Uffe]

Now the 10 million dollar question.

You are a marth player in a match and there is 500 dollars at stake. One stock left on each player. Ness is at 60% dmg and you are at 190% dmg.

You grab ness.

What do you do?

It depends on who gets the grab first. If there was $500 on the line and I was using Marth, THEN I'd go for the grab. I never said I'd never death grab Ness, but I'd at least make an attempt to go on without it first. And that must be some pro Ness.

 

[vaderseven]

you misread.

YOU ARE MARTH. you grab the ness.

So if that situation you would death grab him even though he had all but won?

I mean, tbh, I would. I just want to poke the ethics of it.

 

[vaderseven]

(10:37:24 AM) fizzybill: 500 bucks
(10:37:26 AM) fizzybill: what do you do
(10:37:29 AM) ladyyink: I'd grab release to F-smash
(10:37:31 AM) ladyyink: because it's super gay
(10:37:44 AM) ladyyink: I'd never grab release infinite
(10:37:45 AM) ladyyink: that's dumb
(10:37:50 AM) ladyyink: I"d lose 500 bucks

 

[Uffe]

Like I said, I'd just play the match through first. Until I was about to lose with Marth, then I'd go for the grab. But I'd have to make safe approaches, because it'd only take one uair, bair, and/or possibly one nair for me to lose. Even an u-smash might kill me because of the ridiculous amount of damage I've endured. So if I could pull off that one grab, then I'd abuse it.

 

[Arcade]

Doesn't MLG's tentative ruleset have Marf's infinite against Ness and Pookiss banned? I have a feeling that'll be changed. It's not very easy to enforce.

As for that situation, I'd GR infinite him unless it was friendlies or banned. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

 

[Yink]

(10:37:24 AM) fizzybill: 500 bucks
(10:37:26 AM) fizzybill: what do you do
(10:37:29 AM) ladyyink: I'd grab release to F-smash
(10:37:31 AM) ladyyink: because it's super gay
(10:37:44 AM) ladyyink: I'd never grab release infinite
(10:37:45 AM) ladyyink: that's dumb
(10:37:50 AM) ladyyink: I"d lose 500 bucks

Nevermind, I'd do an infinite (just because if I didn't, I'd lose because the Ness would just like, nair me or throw me), but I wouldn't take any money. :/

 

[vaderseven]

As for that situation, I'd GR infinite him unless it was friendlies or banned. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

I think I fall into this line of thinking.

I would then post a video of the match on smash boards and be like LOL SKILL DECIDED 500 BUCKS SUPER FAIR.

 

[Arcade]

Nevermind, I'd do an infinite (just because if I didn't, I'd lose because the Ness would just like, nair me or throw me), but I wouldn't take any money. :/

Yeah, nair would almost definitely kill Marf at 190 with proper DI and momentum canceling. As Marth I probably wouldn't go for a grab unless I was almost sure I wouldn't whiff.

 

[FuPoo]

If I was a Marth player, I wouldn't do it in -any- occasion. I don't swing that way.

I'm interested in giving people a show.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

I have a great Ness player ridiculously close to me as well.
And yeah, it's an infinite, with like a 1:100 chance of random escape, which is Marth controlled.

 

[vaderseven]

Oh coolness, please see rule one under gameplay.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=269919


This is a GOOD thing. --I am a marth main and I 110% support this--