The down tilt and other underrated moves

[Seed of Sorrow]

Hi everyone, I was messing with my link strategies/mind games yeterday, and noticed that the downtilt, although there is start up lag, is actually very underrated and useful. Yeah, I know, I was surprised too, but it turns out, that the downtilt props fast fallers up enough for a good nair to fair, or bair to whatever. I realize that this is going to run into some issues with other link players, but I think that his down tilt, when you know that you have enough time/is relatively safe to do it, should be used more frequently to set up quick combos for anywhere to 20 to 30 %. any thoughts?

Also, just for fun, I started dashdancing really fast, and when the boomerang came back, I just absorbed it, and didn't stop dashdancing, which is weird because it usually cancels my dash dances/moves.

Please discuss the downtilt strategy, and possibly try it out to verify/disprove?

 

[Flare233]

the dtilt can also be used as a spike right at the edge. I think it's a meteor smash if done right but I could be wrong.

 

[Skler]

Dtilt is made of lag and awful. It's like a slow utilt with a worse hitbox. If it connects it is a good launcher, but it doesn't connect. They can see it coming from a mile away and with a hitbox that small it's easy to avoid. Stick to the dsmash.

That rang thing is cool and I want to try it, sounds like you get no lag from the rang catch but you get to throw it again as soon as it comes back. That's really helpful for spam (I usually just catch the rang and throw it back out or pull a bomb while letting it come back).

 

[Seed of Sorrow]

Dtilt is made of lag and awful. It's like a slow utilt with a worse hitbox. If it connects it is a good launcher, but it doesn't connect. They can see it coming from a mile away and with a hitbox that small it's easy to avoid. Stick to the dsmash.

I understand that, but the thing is, link players are told what moves to use and not use by a community. If we were to try and test this as a community it may (or may not) work. Right now, we are just reiterating what we already "think" we know. Sort of like how the shine was considered crappy because it only reflected things, but now has a bunch of different uses. Although I am not saying the dtilt will be as useful of the shine.

I'm not saying that your wrong, I'm just saying that we should re-evaluate.

 

[DaDoC]

mmmmm. i still liek dsmash better seed, sorry there. dtilt could work as another option a mindgame but its just not as good. less you figure out some rad combo with it.......i like my dsmash option more.

 

[Stos]

Dtilt to spin attack = smex. It work nicely with Fox and Falcon.

 

[Skler]

The huge problem with the dtilt is that it's the dsmash but worse. Also the dtilt will (or at least should) never hit any fast character who doesn't have a broken shield. I guess you could try to time one as an edgeguard but it's a bad edgeguard.

It does send them almost straight up if you hit with the meteor (on the ground) which is good for comboing, but good luck hitting with it. Stick to dsmash!

If you want a good dtilt combo do dtilt meteor (on ground) -> dair. Works on a lot of characters at different %s (because DI pretty much has no effect) but never happens because dtilt sucks and the dtilt meteor is even harder to hit with.

 

[Seed of Sorrow]

okay, I just figured something else out. Don't know if this has been discovered, but you can bomb edgegrab. Yup, put on shield, roll towards edge, let bomb explode in your hands when you have your shield up.

I understand that you think it sucks, but please, can we just be a little open, to discussion? dtilt, may be useful. For example: if an opponent is about a second away from hitting the ground, down tilt to nair/fair, and continue comboing.

 

[Skler]

If the opponent is a second away from hitting the ground aren't they going to do an attack if you're near them? I could understand CCing the attack into a dsmash or using a utilt (they are in the air aren't they) but the dtilt doesn't come to mind. If you can think of a time when it is logical to use a dtilt instead of any other attack I'll say the dtilt is useful, but until then I see no uses for it aside from a joke.

Do you have to light shield for the bomb edgegrab?

 

[Seed of Sorrow]

no, but if you just pulled the bomb, you need to wait for it to get close to exploding otherwise your shield will break in the time it takes from spawning to exploding. so, either shield.

 

[HoshiPuri]

Arrows are pretty much underrated right?

 

[Skler]

Arrows are only good during recovery, shoot one while way about the stage and it falls just a little faster than Link and robs any would be edgeguarders of momentum. Of course, while above the stage you could always pull a bomb or throw a rang, but the arrow has a good angle to keep you safe in certain situations.

 

[DaDoC]

aarows are also good against noobs. =p.

Noobs who spam certain projectiles.....like pickachus neutral b.

the arrow sits in the ground and blocks it.

 

[MASAHIROx]

seed is a baller.

My fox enjoys shine'in his fox IN THE EYE!

Come to the next c3. link dittoz as usual bIAtcH!!!

 

[Seed of Sorrow]

MASA is top tier.

Link dittos for sure!

Edit: Just discovered something new with the downtilt. It has to do with peaches dsmash. Okay, if a peach misses you with the downsmash, dtilt any time after it because the dtilt has plenty of prioty to take out the down smash anytime after the peach executes it. It allows for a great chance to fair.

 

[Taalcon]

That's pretty situational. If a peach missed a downsmash near me, I would sit and charge up a forward smash. Charged Fsmash > dtilt. Of course, me being me, I might screw it up and do a ftilt. >.<

 

[Seed of Sorrow]

dtilt also has enough priority to stop the dsmash when it is first executed.

 

[Taalcon]

Dtilt has too long a startup time to use it immediately when you see Peach coming for a dsmash to catch the dsmash when it is first executed. If you know the Peach is going to dmash, then you won't need to dtilt.

 

[Giggidax]

i disapprove of the dtilt. whenever i try and use it, i get waveshined O_O

turns out u can smash DI tech, or just easily spotdodge it since the startup lag is so bad. its quite ez to see it coming.

so, this is my expereince with the dtilt

 

[Seed of Sorrow]

Ok, I recognize that my posts have been misleading. I am not advocating that you use the down tilt as an open attack, but as a chain attack that allows for extra comboing. I in no way mean to walk right up to an opponent and dtilt, no, that would be ridiculous.

 

[Taalcon]

Ok, I recognize that my posts have been misleading. I am not advocating that you use the down tilt as an open attack, but as a chain attack that allows for extra comboing. I in no way mean to walk right up to an opponent and dtilt, no, that would be ridiculous.

A chain attack? O_o what do you mean? Like a combo starter?

Anyways, we're telling you that it's okay if it hits, but only if it hits.

 

[Seed of Sorrow]

I mean it like something that you would use in the middle of a combo to further comboes.

And yes, I understand that.

 

[Taalcon]

Good. We have an understanding. Glad you could see it our way. ^^

 

[Giggidax]

i know, i understand this. its ok for comboing but i usually choose to use a different attack. the only way i can use it is when my opponent is in the air close to the ground, it just spikes them down. and they tech away or something

its not that great of a combo extender, but its decent

 

[Skler]

If dtilt hits it's pretty great (better trajectory then utilt, especially if the meteor part hits to send them straight up), but I still can't think of a way to get it to hit that isn't easy to punish.

If peach misses a dsmash I'm dairing her (except at lower %s). At lower %s I'd rang her (the good part) into an aerial for the extra damage, or just grab -> combo. dtilt fair works if you hit with the non meteor + DI away? That might actually be a handy thing to know vs peach.

 

[Seed of Sorrow]

yeah, it works, you'll have to move, but it works

 

[LinkSpecialist]

I don't see why a lot of people don't use every move more often. The Down tilt is one of many underrated moves to use. Really useful against those who sidestep often, because of it's lag it doesn't hit until the sidestep is over and your opponent is left open. Not only that, but it has a great reach for the time it takes to swing. I believe the sword chop works the same way. It doesn't send opponents sky high, but it has good knockback. The arrows are useful too. Nice to stun enemies, even for a second. It's just too bad there non-lethal. You manage to learn (and use) this kind of stuff when you haven't been on the internet for the past three years only training at home with friends and family, though I'm sure that that's not the case for any one of you guys.

 

[Joe_Sumo]

the down tilt is a meteor spike if your opponent is right next to you near the edge. the problem is not getting smacked in the process

 

[technomancer]

God **** guys we haven't gotten over dtilt yet?

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

God **** guys we haven't gotten over dtilt yet?

The game is almost six years old. When Brawl comes out, everyone needs to quickly make a thread for every individual move. That way, everyone can instantly attack anyone who makes a new thread.

Link's down-tilt is good both near edge and in the middle of the stage. Coaxial Cable often would crouch cancel my approach and down-tilt me followed by a neutral-air or up-B. >_<

 

[Stos]

God **** guys we haven't gotten over dtilt yet?

Lmao pwned.

Nubs. Dtilt is good when you see someone sweetspotting thier Up B. Also DTilt to Spin Attack = Smex, good smex.

 

[LinkSpecialist]

Bow....good for more defensive purposes rather than offensive ones.

 

[Zelda_Fan_]

Bow....good for more defensive purposes rather than offensive ones.

It's only useful for coming back to the stage. Haven't we gotten over this all ready?

 

[LinkSpecialist]

....yes....how about Link's Forward tilt, have we gone over that already?

 

[Skler]

Ftilt hits below the stage just as well as/better than the dtilt. As an edgeguard, the dtilt is worthless. As a move on the stage...the dtilt is (almost?) worthless.

 

[Stos]

Ftilt's >pwns> Dtilt's

 

[NekoNoBaka13]

I once played a Link where all he ever did was roll behind you and then downtilt. Lol.. so stupid.

But as long as you don't spam it all over the place, it can be more useful than the downsmash.

If you mindgame it, you can get a good downtilt off. If you use it in the middle of some other moves, the long startup can throw them off.

It also has MUCH less ending lag than the downsmash, provided you jump out of it, which you should so you can combo.

It's not very versatile though, and should NEVER be used as a defensive move. It can only be used if you are controlling the fight at the moment.

 

[LinkSpecialist]

Question: Why is it that Link's moves all have different points of strength? For example; Marth and Roy's strongest hits comes from ether the tip of their blade or the close range. With Link's it's both. Like...

some attacks that are strongest up close
SmashFwrd
DownTilt (mainly cause it leaves them open)

Then there are some attacks better off at a distance
Fwrdtilt
Fair

I'm just wondering, why does Link have a mixed usage of attacks strengths when it comes to range?

 

[Stos]

Question: Why is it that Link's moves all have different points of strength? For example; Marth and Roy's strongest hits comes from ether the tip of their blade or the close range. With Link's it's both. Like...

some attacks that are strongest up close
SmashFwrd
DownTilt (mainly cause it leaves them open)

Then there are some attacks better off at a distance
Fwrdtilt
Fair

I'm just wondering, why does Link have a mixed usage of attacks strengths when it comes to range?

Cause Link is Cool Like That.

 

[lolomgwtfbbq]

I just recently started using link again and I find that I often use the dtilt in my game with link.
I normally shffl fair to a dtilt and end it with an up-B or fsmash and it seems to work fine for me :S. But I do think that the fair is an underrated attack in some way considering it's a OK set-up.