The DI/VI Naming Debate

[TTTTTsd]

Oh I'm not saying VI should or shouldn't be the final name, but it is important that it's at least different, I mean.

KI sounds really fun.

 

[Conda]

Oh I'm not saying VI should or shouldn't be the final name, but it is important that it's at least different, I mean.

KI sounds really fun.

Im for KI, and Strong Bad seems to be as well

Edit: currently, more people oppose VI/Vectoring. KI/DI is winning out, thankfully (hopefully KI becomes the norm, as its a better name).

 

[KlefkiHolder]

Im for KI, and Strong Bad seems to be as well

Edit: currently, more people oppose VI/Vectoring. KI/DI is winning out, thankfully (hopefully KI becomes the norm, as its a better name).

I don't get the whole "KI + DI is beating VI on its own!" argument when I can easily say the same going the other way. Like:

Hey look the majority of the community didnt vote for KI! Guess we'll have to go with VI/DI/whatever.

Also for the record, I don't really care what we call it. TBH I like KI (VI does rhyme with DI tho), but this argument just makes no sense to me when VI is leading when compared to the rest individually.

Edit: VI + Vectoring is also tied with KI + DI. Imo it makes actual sense to group the vector ones as well, which I can't say the same for DI + KI.

 

[Fenrir]

Just call it DI. If you find yourself needing to be more specific for whatever reason, clarify that you mean Smash 4 DI.

 

[-Philip Coast Philip-]

The Poll

I think this is helpful to read for anyone here but also the moderator who added a poll to my post. While I understand the temptation to add a poll to this kind of post, a poll at this time is actually confusing because:

-The topic is extremely new and more time should be allowed for people to hear this out and come to an informed decision and not only their initial one. A poll basically causes the prevailing opinion to be reinforced thus influencing further member's votes by asking posters their opinion during a time when it's not prudent to commit to one. More "weighted" or thought-out posts like mine or Strong Bad's reply to mine help develop and synthesize big ideas, and furthermore this decision is bigger than just you or me.

-It's my understanding that some sections of Smashboards are a bit more rambunctious with quick-opinion posts (e.g. "ink dropping" back during Brawl, and with many more subsequent topics) and as someone who considers posts like these srs bznz, a poll - especially one which intrinsically would not be able to include all the options anyway, since all the options aren't available yet - would seem to only contribute to general confusion and not to quality posts. I would encourage posters to continue to recognize that posts and threads are viewable and searchable with current discussions being bumped to the top, thus we do not have to hurry our posts and we can take our time to think out how we will respond.

If any reader is still confused why I wrote this click here.


The Debate


Strong Bad, your arguments actually support mine...

You say that DI is the name of the mechanic and not the concept. You then say SDI refers to "warping" your character in a direction. You've made one of two arguments here: that "directional" now means "your trajectory" and "your warp coordinates"; or, that SDI is inaccurate and should be renamed because S4's mechanic should be named.

If DI is to continue to be at the conceptual level and not tied to a mechanic, then you've proved my argument. If not, then we must figure out something else for SDI or VI instead, as you bring up the point of "DI" not being a helpful term for people new to Smash. I quote myself, "I don't consider myself stagnant: if the vast majority of the community decides to call it "VI" then it will be referred to as VI. Cohesive understanding in our community is stronger than weak understanding of individual items, so [while the other poster may think "VI" is "silly"], [VI] still serves its purpose and we move on with it."

Meanwhile, "directional" is currently used to refer to two different mechanics.

Personally I thought "flight influence" was fun with all the other factors involved ('rage', vectoring - see I don't mind using that term here to describe how the mechanic is carried out..., decay) , plus FI sounds cool, but I don't mind something like KDI. KI seems hard to pronounce but manageable; VI makes me want to pronounce the whole word; VDI sounds a bit dirty; KBI looks like a cross between fbi/kgb.

edit: I actually really like flight influence, FI.

 

[Conda]

FI is great. Anything but VI.

 

[Jaedrik]

How about naming it Knockback Vectoring (KV)? It's a super cool and rad name.

 

[Boy Jordan]

How about naming it Knockback Vectoring (KV)? It's a super cool and rad name.

Remember that we don't bother naming certain mechanics and techniques just for the sake of having something cool to call them by. We name 'em so we can refer to them easier and with simplicity during live matches. Certain Brawl techniques had terrible names, such as reverse aerial rush (pivot jump is what I call this), and complicated names like that proved a challenge to people trying to enter the competitive scene. Personally, I'll be calling this DI and explaining how Smash 4's DI differs from past games--just as I do the same with airdodges--but if the community wants to call this something different, at the very least I hope we keep it simple.

 

[Fire Tactician]

KI can also stand for Kid Icarus... so I'm going to have to give that one a no. Similarly, I wouldn't name any gameplay mechanic FE or LoZ.

 

[smashbrolink]

Oh, so THAT'S what all this "Vectoring" talk is about.
I swear I thought someone had found out a whole new meta-game ability that all characters in Smash could use, but it's just a debate on the naming of directional influence...

This is my take on it:
As long as pushing a direction has the effect of influencing the speed, distance, or angle of my character before or after he's being hit, I'm going to call it DI, for Directional Influence.
There's really no need to change it when the term and what it does is so easy to understand as it is now.
Why fix what's not broken?

It's DI. For me, it will always remain DI.

 

[Pazzo.]

I voted for other... because Knockback Vectoring is the best of both worlds.

 

[Big-Cat]

It's DI in a new form and the old one isn't present. Call it DI.

Sure, this one is founded on vectors, but that just complicates things for new players to learn. Leave the vectors to the programmers and modders.

 

[Raijinken]

Already TourneyLocator's casters had to explain what a vector is so people would have a clue what they meant, and the explanation was so long-winded and ended up being summed up as, in essence, "You influence how hard you get launched by holding a direction."

Anything with Vector in it SOUNDS cool, but it does not make it conducive to explanation.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

As someone who is just starting to look at Smash competitively (I've played casually since 64) Directional Influence or Knock back Influence (DI and KI respectively) seem to make the most sense. I've taken physics in high school, and I still hadn't remembered what the term "vector" meant entirely. I knew it had to do something with directions, but then the application of it wouldn't be obvious to me until somebody explains it further.

Now again, I'm new to this competitive talk, but I'm willing to give my two cents. So feel free to correct me.

If we call things "DI" because of the ability to affect our trajectory, wouldn't that be applicable here? You're changing the angle you are launched at, therefore influencing the direction you go. Granted, I see what @Strong Bad is saying, but I myself don't think the problem of DI being different in different games is much more than adapting. All of the games are different, so adapting to it is part of the process.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

If we call things "DI" because of the ability to affect our trajectory, wouldn't that be applicable here? You're changing the angle you are launched at, therefore influencing the direction you go.

That is incorrect.

 

[FlynnCL]

The most accurate description of how this game handles alterations to knockback is by using a vector, right? It perfectly explains how this system works.

Naming it DI is going to cause confusion for those getting into Smash 4 who are already used to Melee/Brawl/PM. An example is Smash 64 which has no DI in Melee/Brawl terms but does have SDI, which the 64 community call... DI, and that in itself causes a lot of unnecessary confusion.

Strong Bad's initial explanation of how to use this new knockback system is to throw away all your knowledge of DI, and start new. It's something completely different, it has its explanations and most of all it makes sense, so to actually start new and to avoid forcing incorrect terms we should call it Vector Influence or even Knockback Influence, not Directional Influence.

 

[guedes the brawler]

VI, but as Vectorial Influence.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

I'm really glad a lot of people are seeing it the way I am; DI does not need a new name, it always works slightly different in every Smash game. DI can stand for two things:

Directional Influence, where you are influencing your direction (making a vector ultimately just changes the final path of flight, thus influencing your direction)

AND

Directional Input, where you are inputting a direction


Vectoring neither tells a player WHAT it does nor HOW it works. "You alter your flight path after being hit by creating your own vector of movement, which affects your flight's final path. If you didn't know, a vector is..." That's too long winded. If you're saying directional influence, players will know it has something to do with your movement. Vectoring does not; it is a term using the concept of a vector, or "the act of using a vector", but it does hint at all what the vector is used for, which DI does.

Vector Influence, similarly, means nothing. It means you are INFLUENCING the vectors. Vectors of what? I don't know. There are vectors in Smash Bros? Huh? There are lines too! Lines everywhere! And 2d planes, and polygons! Actually this would even be incorrect because you are not influencing the vectors of your flight, you are ADDING vectors to your flight if and only if you are holding a direction, which ends up resulting in a final flight. (Because you are adding vectors only when you are inputting a direction, and therefore not necessarily adding vectors throughout the entire flight path, it would be incorrect to say you are influencing even your final flight's vectors, as your flight consists of different "vectors" throughout the entire path; every instant of time is different from the other, and your final flight path is the result of the changing velocities throughout its duration. Therefore, at any point in your flight, you are never influencing the vectors, you are adding your own vectors, which results in a certain velocity of both speed and direction.)

" Vectorial Influence would at least be better, because then "Vectorial" is describing and modifying "influence", which tells you that you are creating an influence of something via vectors. But because vector is a math/physics concept and isn't easily associated with any gameplay mechanic, it is not helpful at all in explaining what it is, unlike DI.

No change is needed; in fact, any change would be worse. DI works slightly different in every smash game. There is no such thing as "changing the term so people don't get confused". If you are talking about DI, you already have the context of WHICH game you are talking about, if and when it is necessary to know which game it is. Similarly, there is no reason to change any other mechanic term such as "tumbling", "getup move", etc., just because they aren't the same from Smash game to Smash game. This notion, that using the same term for different Smash games with changes to said term will confuse people, is senseless.

That is incorrect.

No, he is correct. By influencing his flight in the air by adding his own vector of movement, he is altering his angle of flight, or trajectory. Therefore he is also influencing the final direction he flies. For the case where you're creating a vector completely opposite of the direction you were sent, DI still applies because DI also means "directional input", where you input the opposite of where you were sent.


I'm ready to change my opinion but as of now I strongly feel DI is the best.

 

[PikaSamus]

I like hitstun shuffling, Nintendo's name.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

I like hitstun shuffling, Nintendo's name.

Hitstun shuffling clearly is describing SDI.

"Input in a direction while taking damage, and you'll shift slightly in that direction."

It says WHILE taking damage, meaning in that moment, not any time after having taken damage. The tip is to help players who can't get out of multi hit attacks.

 

[UberMadman]

Oh, so THAT'S what all this "Vectoring" talk is about.
I swear I thought someone had found out a whole new meta-game ability that all characters in Smash could use, but it's just a debate on the naming of directional influence...

This is my take on it:
As long as pushing a direction has the effect of influencing the speed, distance, or angle of my character before or after he's being hit, I'm going to call it DI, for Directional Influence.
There's really no need to change it when the term and what it does is so easy to understand as it is now.
Why fix what's not broken?

It's DI. For me, it will always remain DI.

The problem with keeping the name is that this is not the exact same mechanic - it's an entirely new one. As a result, this can lead to a lot of confusion for newer players. It's much easier to just give it two different names, otherwise we'll always have to specify "Smash 4 DI" as opposed to "Melee/Brawl/PM DI."

And it wasn't called DI because you pushed a direction to influence it, it was called that because you could influence your direction. That isn't true anymore, you go the same direction no matter what. So your logic is fundamentally flawed to begin with.

 

[PikaSamus]

Hitstun shuffling clearly is describing SDI.

"Input in a direction while taking damage, and you'll shift slightly in that direction."

It says WHILE taking damage, meaning in that moment, not any time after having taken damage. The tip is to help players who can't get out of multi hit attacks.

Sorry, I don't know much about this kind of stuff.

 

[Rᴏb]

VI seems like the only choice. It's the most accurate name while also sounding familiar.

 

[Raijinken]

Your direction changes, it's technically influenced. Magnitude also changes, as a result of being vector-based. The resultant vector that is followed is still a straight line in a new direction (unless you influence parallel to the original).

Directional Influence is correct in a sense, but there is a strong case for "the mechanic works so differently that it deserves a new name". However, vectors aren't intuitive for, for instance, younger players that may want to learn advanced techniques. What this affects could be called, without much vagueness, knockback influence (you change how hard you're knocked, and in a slight way, which way you go), and launch influence (where/how hard you're being launched).

Either of those are fine with me. Vectors are an unnecessarily complicated term, and it does warrant a new name, in my opinion. We have enough tricky terms that Nintendo was kind enough to attempt to come up with some official names for (though really, crouch-walking instead of Crawling? What?), we don't need to add basic knowledge of physics terminology as a barrier to play.

 

[Morbi]

An argument pertaining to semantics that almost exclusively attempts to oppose the term "Vector Influence" because it is too literal and not all of our terms are objectively literal? That is... interesting. I do agree with the core concept of the argument. In essence, VI is DI as they function fairly similarly; however, this was the name presented to us and there is no inherent issue with the name either. Honestly, it is pathetic that everyone is so opposed to changing the name to something discernible based on the notion that they would personally feel more comfortable with stagnating this new mechanic with an old name because it is relevant. There is a difference, the term deserves a different name to distinguish this difference. End of story.

"Bu- butt... wee due nawt cal teh ear-doge teh ear-vector! becus u mov n da One Direction, nawt a vector."

 

[MasterOfKnees]

As a graphics designer the term 'vectoring' throws me off a bit, and even then the term should be absolutely clear to everyone what it does just by the name itself, it needs to be understood by 10 year olds and foreigners, I don't feel like vectoring is as easily understandable a term as DI has been in the past. I don't really care if it becomes DI, KI, LI or w/e, just not VI.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

An argument pertaining to semantics that almost exclusively attempts to oppose the term "Vector Influence" because it is too literal and not all of our terms are objectively literal? That is... interesting. I do agree with the core concept of the argument. In essence, VI is DI as they function fairly similarly; however, this was the name presented to us and there is no inherent issue with the name either. Honestly, it is pathetic that everyone is so opposed to changing the name to something discernible based on the notion that they would personally feel more comfortable with stagnating this new mechanic with an old name because it is relevant. There is a difference, the term deserves a different name to distinguish this difference. End of story.

"Bu- butt... wee due nawt cal teh ear-doge teh ear-vector! becus u mov n da One Direction, nawt a vector."

If you feel it deserves a different name to represent its differences, then is it wrong or bad to be for us to have been using the same terms for mechanics and gameplay aspects that change from each Smash game to the next? Do we really need up to 4 terms for every single gameplay aspect or mechanic that is essentially the same idea in the end despite the result being produced in a different way and/or the result being slightly different, which would thus not only increase the entry barrier of learning but also just be annoying having up to four times amount the terms we have right now?

Remember, in any conversation, if it actually matters how a certain gameplay aspect or mechanic is produced or it is necessary to be specific of the implications of said gameplay aspect or mechanic, which game it belongs to should already be in the context, otherwise people are just talking about the same idea in a general sense, in which case it wouldn't matter to specify (Example: My DI is bad. Explanation: People will understand they're talking about escaping combos and increasing their longevity. It doesn't matter how the DI actually works, he's just expressing he's bad at those things. If they instead say "I don't know how to DI" and they're asking in a Smash 4 thread, then it's already clear what kind of DI he is talking about.)

Sorry, I don't know much about this kind of stuff.

Np ^^ Just get ready for when Ridley comes.

 

[Morbi]

If you feel it deserves a different name to represent its differences, then is it wrong or bad to be for us to have been using the same terms for mechanics and gameplay aspects that change from each Smash game to the next? Do we really need up to 4 terms for every single gameplay aspect or mechanic that is essentially the same idea in the end despite the result being produced in a different way and/or the result being slightly different, which would thus not only increase the entry barrier of learning but also just be annoying having up to four times amount the terms we have right now?



Np ^^ Just get ready for when Ridley comes.

Of course not, there is nothing "wrong" with it; however, "wrong" is a subjective term. I do believe that the result of the mechanic is more relevant than the underlying mechanic, therefore a new term is justified. I am just chiming in. If the community continues to call it "Directional Influence," I am going to opt into calling it "Vector Influence" anyways. Most members of the community are now aware of the term whether they enjoy it or not.

The "entry barrier" is not a cause for concern if we are not seriously considering "two stocks, five minutes." However, that debate is for another thread. I am just asserting that we are not consistent enough as a community to feasibly be concerned about the "entry barrier." There is a slippery slope fallacy somewhere along the line, but as of current, I will maintain that changing one term exclusive to Smash 4 will not influence any unwarranted confusion.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Of course not, there is nothing "wrong" with it; however, "wrong" is a subjective term. I do believe that the result of the mechanic is more relevant than the underlying mechanic, therefore a new term is justified. I am just chiming in. If the community continues to call it "Directional Influence," I am going to opt into calling it "Vector Influence" anyways. Most members of the community are now aware of term whether they enjoy it or not.

The "entry barrier" is not a cause for concern if we are not seriously considering "two stocks, five minutes." However, that debate is for another thread. I am just asserting that we are not consistent enough as a community to feasibly be concerned about the "entry barrier." There is a slippery slope fallacy somewhere along the line, but as of current, I will maintain that changing one term exclusive to Smash 4 will not influence any unwarranted confusion.

Ok, fair enough. It just does annoy me when things are a bit inconsistent; I would rather prefer the underlying mechanic have the same name, as most or all general mechanics have so far, and that is a reason why I don't want an "exception". And that is a good point, most people are already aware of both terms; if you need to explain it to someone you can ask them if they've heard either term, it doesn't make communication really harder.

 

[Overtaken]

VI is simple and succinct. Unlike 'vectoring', it both signifies the similar utility/purpose to 'DI', and the critical difference as well. It semantically makes sense and can be abbreviated.

Furthermore, as I understand it, either knockback or direction(angle really) are only being effected incidentally. the tragectory vector is what is being influenced directly by the mechanic.


VI master race.

 

[Conda]

It's DI in a new form and the old one isn't present. Call it DI.

Sure, this one is founded on vectors, but that just complicates things for new players to learn. Leave the vectors to the programmers and modders.

Precisely. Games do not change what they call things even if the underlying physics and workings change. This is for simplicity's sake.

To explain 'vi' or 'ki' or 'fi', we'll all be saying "It's smash 4's version of DI" - which, if we use common sense, lets us understand and realise that DI has become an explanitory and meaning-filled word of its own in our community. And it means that DI is the word to use, as it now has transitional properties and can take on the meaning of umbrella mechanics in the game series. No matter if they use vectors or anything else - it'll be DI. That's the beauty of language.

We can't get OCD about things and start calling things by new nicknames as soon as they undergo a mechanics change.



In short, nobody outside of this thread really cares if the math and specific limits of the mechanic are so different due to using 'vectors'. It'll be called DI because it's this game's version of DI - it's different, it uses different physics variables, but it's still 'an update to DI'. If anything, it's a more simple and logical 'complete' version of how DI used to work. It's DI 2.0, and still DI in spirit.

If Melee had a patch and changes how DI works to make it work like in Smash 4, we'd still call it DI even though the underlying mechanics changed.

Saying 'smash 4 doesn't have DI' is like saying you can't affect how you are knocked back by attacks - which isn't true. You can, and the mechanic that lets you do that should keep its traditional 'name', because it plays the same gameplay role.



--

VI is simple and succinct. Unlike 'vectoring', it both signifies the similar utility/purpose to 'DI', and the critical difference as well. It semantically makes sense and can be abbreviated.

Furthermore, as I understand it, either knockback or direction(angle really) are only being effected incidentally. the tragectory vector is what is being influenced directly by the mechanic.


VI master race.

Why do we not rename all smash mechanics more technically-accurate things? Smash Attacks should be "impact-input attack variants" and short hops should be "fractional-input vertical lifts."

(edit: the above is sarcasm)

Vectoring is as bad a name as any for any game mechanic, and game designers would never choose it as an ingame mechanic name in their game.

 

[Chiroz]

Precisely. Games do not change what they call things even if the underlying physics and workings change. This is for simplicity's sake.

To explain 'vi' or 'ki' or 'fi', we'll all be saying "It's smash 4's version of DI" - which, if we use common sense, lets us understand and realise that DI has become an explanitory and meaning-filled word of its own in our community. And it means that DI is the word to use, as it now has transitional properties and can take on the meaning of umbrella mechanics in the game series. No matter if they use vectors or anything else - it'll be DI. That's the beauty of language.

We can't get OCD about things and start calling things by new nicknames as soon as they undergo a mechanics change.



In short, nobody outside of this thread really cares if the math and specific limits of the mechanic are so different due to using 'vectors'. It'll be called DI because it's this game's version of DI - it's different, it uses different physics variables, but it's still 'an update to DI'. If anything, it's a more simple and logical 'complete' version of how DI used to work. It's DI 2.0, and still DI in spirit.

If Melee had a patch and changes how DI works to make it work like in Smash 4, we'd still call it DI even though the underlying mechanics changed.

Saying 'smash 4 doesn't have DI' is like saying you can't affect how you are knocked back by attacks - which isn't true. You can, and the mechanic that lets you do that should keep its traditional 'name', because it plays the same gameplay role.



--


Why do we not rename all smash mechanics more technically-accurate things? Smash Attacks should be "impact-input attack variants" and short hops should be "fractional-input vertical lifts."

Vectoring is as bad a name as any for any game mechanic, and game designers would never choose it as an ingame mechanic name in their game.

I like how you ignore that your own logic has caused problems in the past. Like when you gave the example: "Why didn't we name wavedash "air dodge slide" and it was proven that if that was the case we wouldn't have had as much problems with it. Smash attacks are called Smash attacks because that's what SAKURAI named them. Short Hops and Fast Falling were also named by Sakurai himself.

How about using your example with something Saurai didn't name: tilts? Sakurai calls them "Strong attacks". Why don't we call them that? Why are tilts named tilts? Literally because you only tilt the control stick instead of "smashing it". It helps a new player understand instantly what he needs to do. If we were to call it strong attacks people would probably think of Smashes, as Smashes "look" stronger to anyone. It's less technical, but it's more confusing. Something we need to avoid.



You keep arguing that VI would cause problems for players but until now all I am seeing is that calling it DI confuses the hell out of everybody because they need to ask: "Wasn't DI in the past games? How's it different? I don't get it, can I still influence my angle? So what can I influence? Could you draw a picture?" You can see this very clearly in the other thread. Most people who are confused literally are so because they compare it to DI instead of instantly assimilating it as a new mechanic.

The human psyche is in such a way that changing a pre-known concept is much harder than learning a new one. Changing what you believe something is is harder to do than actually just learning something that you didn't know before, its psychology. If you truly don't want to confuse people it's much easier to just name the technique something different. You can argue that "vectors" are a scary concept, but calling it DI would create much more confusion than calling it VI.





Edit: I find it funny that even with the OP being so clearly biased for DI, VI is so much more accepted apparently. And even though the OP posted saying : "polls shouldn't be done so early because people haven't made up their minds", it's actually the contrary: people normally are reluctant to change and if given time will adapt, so with time the poll would just be more one sided towards VI unfortunately for you guys since people who are still reluctant to the change would side over to the other side.

Basically VI is double handicapped and still winning the polls.

I truthfully don't care what the name ends up being, but I do believe to avoid confusion it shouldn't be DI. I am in favor of anything that isn't DI but that at the same time "relates to DI" in everyone's minds. The term needs to make an instant connection. KI, FI, VI, all of those are good terms.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

I support "Vectorial Influence"

 

[Evello]

While Vectoring or VI would be the most accurate name, I feel it would be too intimidating to explain to new players (or even past competitive players without a strong background in math). That said, I also don't think the name should stay DI. Normally I would advocate keeping terminology for similar mechanics the same (like the air dodge), but it seems like the new mechanic will generally be used solely to reduce or increase knock back parallel with the direction of impact, which doesn't alter your actual direction at all. Thus naming the mechanic DI could be confusing too, since commentators would be referring to the player using directional influence while not influencing their direction in the slightest.

That leaves me with KI. I don't love that name, since I feel it doesn't roll off the tongue as well as DI, and it also might get confused with KO, but I think it's the best of the presented options. It means exactly what it says; you are influencing either the direction, the distance, or direction and distance of your knockback. When a commentator or poster mentions knockback influence, readers will have an intuitive notion of what is being discussed without needing a huge description of exactly how the game calculates your flightpath.

 

[MushroomKiller]

First off, your OP is far from objective. Rather than present each option in equally fair lights, you start off your poll by ****ting on at least a few options, supporting what you feel we should call it (...DI), and calling one of your oposers "pissy." The impartiality here is amusing. While rude and insulting, it also helps my case, so thanks dude.
Not really sure why a poll was added to the OP given this information.

Secondly, I don't much care to address most of your post, so I'm just going to say what I think about this issue and leave it at that, pulling relevant quotes from the OP when applicable but otherwise just writing paragraphs as one normally would.

The most important thing to address, I'm sure, is:

Why we shouldn't call it DI

Of course, there are many proponent's of calling it DI as we always have, citing that we don't change the names of things every time a mechanic changes. Like how SDI functions differently between Melee, and Brawl, we call it SDI because the root concept is the same: use a control stick input during Hitlag/Freeze Frames and you'll warp some units in the direction you pressed. The strength of this, or the amount of hitlag attacks have, isn't relevant to the root definition.
Likewise, other mechanics have changed throughout the series, such as the Air Dodge. In Melee, the Air Dodge is directional (or in place) and goes into special fall afterward. It changes your character's physics. In Brawl, this mechanic follows the falling (or rising) trajectory you would have otherwise taken if you hadn't air dodged. But the main concept of this mechanic, BEING ABLE TO DODGE IN THE AIR, hasn't changed. When the Dash mechanic was changed in Brawl to no longer allow Dash Dancing, we still called it Dashing... because your character dashes. The list goes on.

This is completely different from DI vs. the current mechanic in question. If the name of DI was "Combo or Death Mitigation" based on situation, we would leave it alone because that definition clearly hasn't changed. Or if it was called Directional Influence, because you can influence things by holding a direction, that wouldn't be changed. But neither of those are the name, definition, or origin. Directional Influence, at its core, was named such because you are able to influence the trajectory (direction) at which you are sent. Trying to re-interpret its origin for your case is clearly fallacious and won't fly here.

Now that I've explained why it's wrong, I will describe why it'd be a good thing for the community from a practical point of view.

If you are in the camp that knows you will play Smash 4 and abandon all other smash games completely, calling it DI grants you no consequence. And if you are a veteran to the series who understands how DI works in previous games as well as the difference here, it's probably not a big deal to just be aware that the mechanic is different. Ignoring that the definition of "Good DI" would drastically change, be ambiguous, and at times literally impossible to make note of, calling it DI is horrendous when considering people new to the series.

If new players were to just play Smash 4, that'd be fine. They would learn the mechanic as it is and be fine, because they'd never play a game in which "DI" is different. But unlike other competitive communities who decide which game of a series to play based on release date, the Smash community loves all of its games. Smash 64, Melee, and Project M (a game that's not even official/from Nintendo) still see competitive play today, and absolutely will continue to through Smash 4's release. Not only will Smash 4 be huge, but the other games will benefit highly from the huge influx of players playing because of Smash 4. People will play Smash 4, see other games at multi-game tournaments, and become interested in them in a way they never had the chance to before. When they play the game, and their DI is bad, they won't understand why. Because you've named it the same mechanic despite being different. It'd be like referring to Street Fighter 4's Focus Attack as "Parry" despite that being the name of a wildly different mechanic in Street Fighter 3. No bueno.

To those who've no vested interest in the other Smash games, calling it DI will be fine for you, but it's quite obvious that doing so is toxic to the other games of the community. Not only does this potentially harm the future growth of those games, calling it DI does not do anything positive for Smash 4. The decision to me is obvious. You either call it the same thing & harm other games, or you call it something else and nothing negative occur to Smash 4.

So now that we've determined why we shouldn't call it DI (and why not doing so is crucial), the question on everyone's mind is:

What should we call it instead?


Even in the post you quoted, I stated that I didn't specifically want people to call this Vectoring, it was just the first term my thoughtgroup came up with that accurately described the phenomenon concisely.

The funny thing here is, I don't really care what it's called, as long as it's not DI. Vectorial Influence, Knockback Influence (particularly funny for the KI shortening, C-C-C-Combo Breaker~), and Vectoring all describe it accurately enough to get the point across. I expect the community to eventually decide which they would like to use. If you truly think that I'm trying to gain fame from this by naming it something specific... wouldn't I have put my name in it? or something? All I'm trying to do here is give it a name that is accurate, concise, and represents it in a way that's not confusing to verterans and new players alike. In contrast, you're arguing your heart out to eventually be wrong and harm the future growth of the scene. Which one of us is being pissy here?

Hmmm, and here I thought the OP was a fair individual who wanted to give all names a chance rather than his personal favorite. He's even more biased than Sakurai!

Not to mention he's pretty quick to jump to conclusions by assuming you want it to be called 'vector influencing' because you want a taste of fame, ahaha. I don't like judgmental people like these, so you're right, it certainly is in your favor. I see he removed the discriminatory parts in shame, but the damage has already been done!

Anyway, I vote VI because:

1. I don't like the OP no more, he's a pissy
2. Your argument is actually really compelling, StrongBad, more so than that of the people who don't want the term to be VI.
3. I don't care what people say, anything with 'Vector' in it is a 3cool5me name. Fact!

 

[Conda]

I found more focus on explaining 'VI' in the OP and giving it it's fair time in the sun, rather than arguing for the merits of DI/KI/FI for actual naming benefits. It neglected those words, making voters in this poll more aware of the term "VI" as the 'proper' name for it, even though it largely is the bad choice for common sense naming purposes.

It's like naming a baby "Male Baby Creature."
You just don't do it. You call that sylvester-stallone-looking baby "Rocky" and give it some dang meaning.

Bad example?

 

[MushroomKiller]

I found more focus on explaining 'VI' in the OP and giving it it's fair time in the sun, rather than arguing for the merits of DI/KI/FI for actual naming benefits. It neglected those words, making voters in this poll more aware of the term "VI" as the 'proper' name for it, even though it largely is the bad choice for common sense naming purposes.

Meaning that you feel VI is winning because of a lack of awareness because the rest aren't not mentioned in the OP? Nah, man, VI is winning because more people like it to be called VI.

Also, the fact that the explanation for VI in the OP is present, but not the argument for naming it that, just screams 'subjective' to me. If you truly want to give every name a fair chance, shouldn't you give both sides of the argument and leave it to people to decide which they find most compelling? Yet the OP has clearly left out any arguments for VI and only included the ones that support his decision. Luckily it doesn't seem to be working very well, because VI is still ousting others for the top choice. That's good, because the OP is a pissy

It's like naming a baby "Male Baby Creature."
You just don't do it. You call that sylvester-stallone-looking baby "Rocky" and give it some dang meaning.

Bad example?

Yep!

Oh and before you say anything: I'm alright with any name as long as it's not DI. VI, KI, FI (MASTER YOUR HEALTH GAUGE IS LOW) are all fine by me!

 

[smashbrolink]

The problem with keeping the name is that this is not the exact same mechanic - it's an entirely new one. As a result, this can lead to a lot of confusion for newer players. It's much easier to just give it two different names, otherwise we'll always have to specify "Smash 4 DI" as opposed to "Melee/Brawl/PM DI."

And it wasn't called DI because you pushed a direction to influence it, it was called that because you could influence your direction. That isn't true anymore, you go the same direction no matter what. So your logic is fundamentally flawed to begin with.

Pushing a direction still influences my flight path in some way, though. Even if it's just shortening it or slowing it down, it's an influence based on pushing a direction on that control pad.
Whether it be direction, speed, or angle, as long as that control stick gives me the ability to influence, in some way, the aspects of the path I'm traveling when I'm hit in any fashion, I'm still gonna call it DI.
There's no need to differentiate its name just because it works slightly different, when the core concept of using the control stick to influence your movement in some fashion after being hit is still present.

If anything, changing the name just makes it more long-winded and tedious to talk about, not to mention unnecessarily confusing by forcing an explanation between the different types between games whenever it's brought up in conversation.

Keeping it to DI and just accepting that it works ever so slightly differently in Smash 4 is the far less painful course of action for the majority of the community, in this case.
I won't stop anyone who wants to differentiate otherwise, of course, but it makes little sense to try to change the mind of the community on this issue when it makes more sense to just keep the name and accept, in our minds, that it works slightly differently in Smash 4 while still being the same core concept.

 

[Conda]

Pushing a direction still influences my flight path in some way, though. Even if it's just shortening it or slowing it down, it's an influence based on pushing a direction on that control pad.
Whether it be direction, speed, or angle, as long as that control stick gives me the ability to influence, in some way, the aspects of the path I'm traveling when I'm hit in any fashion, I'm still gonna call it DI.
There's no need to differentiate its name just because it works slightly different, when the core concept of using the control stick to influence your movement in some fashion after being hit is still present.

Exactly - many people's understanding of DI was 'you change your flight path by inputting a direction'. DI still makes sense under that understanding of the word (even if there's more to the technical definition of 'DI', which still is super vague). And those people scratch their heads when they see people want to change the term because of technical mathematical reasons. Language is language, and when a name still makes sense for transitional reasons, that means the name works and is flexible.

Players and Commentators in person will call it DI due to comfort, descriptiveness, and habit, and we will know what they mean, and life will move on. Like how parents called your playstation 2 a "Nintendo."
You knew what they meant. You gave them a kiss on the cheek and ate some birthday cake and got on with your awesome childhood life.

If we could do it as a kid, we can do it as adults. DI is still in Smash 4 in a different form - and it still involves directions and influence.
Vague? Hell yeah, but that's language baby. English, especially. Words have soul and emotion, and DI has that now.

 

[MushroomKiller]

Can't we have multiple names for the damned thing? People who want it to be called VI can call it VI. People who want it to be called KI can call it KI. People who want to keep the name DI can call it DI.

I feel that we've been arguing the case for so long that everyone is well aware by now that we're essentially referring to the same thing by now.

World Peace!

/sarcasm, but I think the essence of that second paragraph still holds true!