The Definitive Lloyd Irving Thread - fall down seven times, stand up eight (Mii costume confirmed)

[Nazyrus]

Seeing how Heihachi & Gil Miis returned in time for Sakurai to make their series anniversary posts, that means Lloyd's fate, mii or fighter, is gonna be known by CP10, the next reveal. ToS's anniversary is August 29th, and CP11 is most likely releasing after that date… sooo… this is it, we are so close to see what happens!

 

[TDDolphin]

Seeing how Heihachi & Gil Miis returned in time for Sakurai to make their series anniversary posts, that means Lloyd's fate, mii or fighter, is gonna be known by CP10, the next reveal. ToS's anniversary is August 29th, and CP11 is most likely releasing after that date… sooo… this is it, we are so close to see what happens!

Yeah... and it looks like my prediction of a reveal some time this week isn't going to happen... bummer.

A part of me is kind of expecting Lloyd's Mii costume to come back too, possibly with Yuri Lowell, or maybe some other sword-using character like Ryu Hayabusa, Rean Schwarzer, or maybe even a Soulcalibur character. If you think about, some of the Mii Swordfighter's special moves work pretty well for Lloyd's attacks in ToS, so maybe they might just bring the costume back because of that.

It's not exactly a happy scenario, but... it might make sense for them to do that.

 

[IWantMyBurd]

If you think about, some of the Mii Swordfighter's special moves work pretty well for Lloyd's attacks in ToS

That's why getting a Lloyd costume more or less out of the blue was as... Satisfying as it was in Smash 4. There was no reason to think Lloyd might be a fighter, and a costume with the right combination of moves was the next best thing.

But now, after the possible clues? After so much time believing it's possible for him to be a fighter? After making it through each DLC presentation with a non zero chance? For it to have all been a coincidence in the end, only to end up right back where we were, would feel so... Hollow. Anticlimactic. Crushing, if you want to go that far.

So until there's a solid reason to count Lloyd out as a fighter, I'm holding out for it.

 

[Gnateb]

To me, it's Tales or Dark Souls for Bandai Namco at this point. I would prefer Dark Souls, but Tales is cool too.

 

[Starlight Liger]

To me, it's Tales or Dark Souls for Bandai Namco at this point. I would prefer Dark Souls, but Tales is cool too.

Dark Souls is published by FromSoftware in Japan so Tales Of is the far more likely representative.

 

[Gnateb]

Dark Souls is published by FromSoftware in Japan so Tales Of is the far more likely representative.

Actually, the director of Dark Souls stated that Bandai Namco fully owns the Dark Souls IP, not FromSoft. So a DS character actually qualifies as a total Bamco rep.

 

[Nazyrus]

I wouldn't mind DS or something obscure like Klonoa, but I think that just like Square Enix, they would most likely want to promote the series that has the most spotlight at the moment / the series they have something going on soon or at the moment that they want to promote the most and/or celebrate.
SE did it for both DQ11 with hero and then FF7R with Sephiroth respectively. Being on this milestone anniversary for Tales Of, and with Arise coming up, and probably even more ports (as we clearly haven't seen all the Tales Of news they promised, and Arise can't be it because they promised about news in plural since June of last year), and adding to that that Lloyd is still the most requested Bamco character, I think it's a no brainer which series they would go with in such a year.

P.S.: It's also pretty easy to profit and benefit from giving Tales Of representation in Smash, being one of the top 3 JRPG series in Japan alongside DQ and FF (officially stated in the legacy of the series on the wikipedia article) AND ToS being the most successful in terms of sales, so from a business standpoint, Bamco and Nintendo both benefits the most from representing that specific IP from Bamco's library.

Considering Lloyd is from the most successful Tales Of title worldwide, and Stahn from the most successful title in Japan specifically, I think it will be more between those two, rather than between Lloyd and Yuri, but that's just my prediction.

 

[Gnateb]

I wouldn't mind DS or something obscure like Klonoa, but I think that just like Square Enix, they would most likely want to promote the series that has the most spotlight at the moment / the series they have something going on soon or at the moment that they want to promote the most and/or celebrate.
SE did it for both DQ11 with hero and then FF7R with Sephiroth respectively. Being on this milestone anniversary for Tales Of, and with Arise coming up, and probably even more ports (as we clearly haven't seen all the Tales Of news they promised, and Arise can't be it because they promised about news in plural since June of last year), and adding to that that Lloyd is still the most requested Bamco character, I think it's a no brainer which series they would go with in such a year.

This is why I think Tales and Dark Souls are the two frontrunners for Bandai Namco.

Like you said, this is a huge year for Tales Of with Arise news and possible ports. Tales has also always been in the spotlight when it comes to Smash.

Souls is also in a similar situation right now. Elden Ring is currently set to release before the end of the fiscal year, and it won "Most anticipated game" of 2020. It's the biggest FromSoft developed game ever (both in scale and budget, it's being co-written by the author of the original Game of Thrones) and there are also potential ports of the Dark Souls trilogy to other platforms coming up. These are for the Switch and Stadia predominantly. While Tales is the more requested series for Smash, Dark Souls is Bandai Namco's best selling RPG series, and third best selling series overall. Dark Souls III, the most recent FromSoft game which Bandai published, remains their fastest selling game of all time. Believe it or not, Dark Souls turns ten this September. It also seems that Bandai Namco and Nintendo care about the Dark Souls IP, as Bandai Namco's only Amiibo was made for it.

It's kind of a huge year for both series. I'd be surprised if both don't get content before Ultimate is over, considering Lloyd's Mii costume and Solaire's Amiibo.

Really, I think they are super close. I don't think either are at disadvantage.

 

[Gnateb]

I'm surprised neither series have gotten content yet. Tales stuff is notably absent from the base game, and the Dark Souls Amiibo is one of the very few in existence to have no spirit functionality.

 

[MattX20]

I'm surprised neither series have gotten content yet. Tales stuff is notably absent from the base game, and the Dark Souls Amiibo is one of the very few in existence to have no spirit functionality.

The fact that Tales is still the only franchise/series from Smash 4 to be featured that hasn't returned in any capacity is odd no matter how you slice it.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Tales of Symphonia vinyl.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Gnateb]

The fact that Tales is still the only franchise/series from Smash 4 to be featured that hasn't returned in any capacity is odd no matter how you slice it.

Hopefully he doesn't suffer the same fate as Geno. I really hope Namco gets a second character.

 

[Nazyrus]

Hopefully he doesn't suffer the same fate as Geno. I really hope Namco gets a second character.

To be honest the only reason Geno fans didn't understand Geno being deconfirmed so late it's because they didn't pay attention to the fact that Square Enix content was only coming with Square Enix fighters, nowhere else was that going to happen.

Meanwhile Namco hasn't been tied to get its content back for any specific reason at any specific time. The most we can tell so far is that Heihachi finally came back when a new fighting game character joined, Min Min, and then Gil came with Steve, which I guess was in reference to dungeons or armor and swords or both or whatever… Lloyd not coming with Pyra either means Lloyd or another Tales character will actually be a fighter…………or a different JRPG character will bring his mii back (my guess being most likely Isaac since he shared similar aspects with XC2 and Arms, such as no music or new music whatsoever, missing main cast characters spirits for no reason, the three series being shown in the very last presentation prior to launch of the game, among a few other things…).

My hope is that it's either Lloyd or some other Tales Of character actually get in as a fighter. A mii costume being the only series representation, while DQ and FF have plenty of content in the game now, wouldn't look right at all specially being the anniversary year of the series… lol.

 

[Gnateb]

To be honest the only reason Geno fans didn't understand Geno being deconfirmed so late it's because they didn't pay attention to the fact that Square Enix content was only coming with Square Enix fighters, nowhere else was that going to happen.

Meanwhile Namco hasn't been tied to get its content back for any specific reason at any specific time. The most we can tell so far is that Heihachi finally came back when a new fighting game character joined, Min Min, and then Gil came with Steve, which I guess was in reference to dungeons or armor and swords or both or whatever… Lloyd not coming with Pyra either means Lloyd or another Tales character will actually be a fighter…………or a different JRPG character will bring his mii back (my guess being most likely Isaac since he shared similar aspects with XC2 and Arms, such as no music or new music whatsoever, missing main cast characters as spirits for no reason, the three series being shown in the very last presentation prior to launch of the game, among a few other things…).

My hope is that it's either Lloyd or some other Tales Of character actually get in as a fighter. A mii costume being the only series representation, while DQ and FF have plenty of content in the game now, wouldn't look right at all specially being the anniversary year of the series… lol.

Yeah, so far Golden Sun only has one song in Smash. Interestingly, Golden Sun, Tales, and Dark Souls all share the same composer, Motoi Sakuraba.

Another reason I think both Tales and Dark Souls will be represented by the end is how well the series fit next to each other, Mii Costume wise.

Both Lloyd and Chosen Undead are:

• from Japanese action RPGs
• Bandai Namco owned
• Use swords (predominantly)
• and Share the same composer.

It seems like if one gets in, the other is likely to get included alongside.

 

[Nazyrus]

Yeah, so far Golden Sun only has one song in Smash. Interestingly, Golden Sun, Tales, and Dark Souls all share the same composer, Motoi Sakuraba.

Another reason I think both Tales and Dark Souls will be represented by the end is how well the series fit next to each other, Mii Costume wise.

Both Lloyd and Chosen Undead are:

• from Japanese action RPGs
• Bandai Namco owned
• Use swords (predominantly)
• and Share the same composer.

It seems like if one gets in, the other is likely to get included alongside.

Yeah Golden Sun has only 2 tracks, which are the same from Brawl, no new music whatsoever for NO reason when bringing Isaac back, with spirits and miis even this time. Arms also had no music at all in base game and I believe XC2 also got nothing new in that sense, but now 2 out of those 3 series have gotten that weird half assed missing content complete, same thing with the missing main cast spirits that had no reason to be missing, GS is the only one that remains to fix that from those 3 series. These 3 series were shown in the very last presentation prior to the launch of Ultimate by the way… And the fact that the 2 GS tracks aren't even Isaac's actual battle theme (or even from the first GS game) is just ridiculous, and nothing was stopping Nintendo from adding Isaac's own track or even more GS tracks in base game, specially since they own the IP.


Oh and that reminds me… how funny is it that Motoi Sakuraba is back in pass 2, randomly doing a couple of arrangements (so far), when in pass 1 he was totally missing from doing any… I hope there's more to it than what he randomly did so far, seems a bit random to just hire him of all people to do an arrangement for freaking Steve and then Sephiroth. I think this man has earned a full fighter pack with music made by him at this point, lol. Be it Lloyd or whoever else's series that he has made tracks for in the past…

 

[Gnateb]

Yeah Golden Sun has only 2 tracks, which are the same from Brawl, no new music whatsoever. Arms also had no music at all in base game and I believe XC2 also got nothing new in that sense, but now 2 out of those 3 series have gotten that weird half assed missing content complete, same thing with the missing main cast spirits that had no reason to be missing, GS is the only one that remains to fix that from those 3 series. And the fact that the 2 GS tracks aren't even Isaac's actual battle theme is just ridiculous and nothing was stopping them from adding it or even more GS tracks lol, being an IP owned by Nintendo after all.


Oh and that reminds me how funny is that Motoi Sakuraba is back in pass 2, randomly doing a couple of arrangements (so far), when in pass 1 he was totally missing from doing any… I hope there's more to it than what he randomly did so far, seems a bit random to just hire him of all people to do an arrangement for freaking Steve and then Sephiroth. I think this man has earned a full fighter pack with music made by him at this point, lol. Be it Lloyd or whoever…

Yeah, I find it really interesting that the first time Sakuraba, who is tied for having the most Smash arrangements, is just now doing paid tracks for the first time. In both Brawl and Smash 4, new compositions of his were added. There are none in Ultimate yet, despite him obviously being on present on the soundteam.

I brought this up on SmashFAQs a while ago, and I got bodied :/ . Hopefully something comes of it.

 

[Sephirothorsomethingidk]

I just joined this website, and I really hope Lloyd gets in. I get pretty sad when people say Mii swordfighter has moves that look similar to some moves Lloyd has

 

[THE 6r]

I just joined this website, and I really hope Lloyd gets in. I get pretty sad when people say Mii swordfighter has moves that look similar to some moves Lloyd has

Personally I like to think that the reason that a lot of people see a resemblance between Mii Swordfighter's moves and Lloyd's is that the programer that had to program the character is a big Tales fan and desperately wants Lloyd in the game, so they tried to make some of Swordfighter's moves resemble some of Lloyd's moves from Tales.

 

[IWantMyBurd]

Personally I like to think that the reason that a lot of people see a resemblance between Mii Swordfighter's moves and Lloyd's is that the programer that had to program the character is a big Tales fan and desperately wants Lloyd in the game, so they tried to make some of Swordfighter's moves resemble some of Lloyd's moves from Tales.

That's a nice thought, but it's more likely just a coincidence. It's possible Sakurai took inspiration from Lloyd, but only three out of twelve resemble Lloyd's moves - not enough even for a full moveset.

Maybe if Lloyd appears in some capacity, we'll get some exposition on this

 

[Sephirothorsomethingidk]

That's a nice thought, but it's more likely just a coincidence. It's possible Sakurai took inspiration from Lloyd, but only three out of twelve resemble Lloyd's moves - not enough even for a full moveset.

Maybe if Lloyd appears in some capacity, we'll get some exposition on this

Meh Gamefaq still uses it to hate on Lloyd regardless

 

[Nazyrus]

Yeah, I find it really interesting that the first time Sakuraba, who is tied for having the most Smash arrangements, is just now doing paid tracks for the first time. In both Brawl and Smash 4, new compositions of his were added. There are none in Ultimate yet, despite him obviously being on present on the soundteam.

I brought this up on SmashFAQs a while ago, and I got bodied :/ . Hopefully something comes of it.

GameFaqs is just an extension of the stupidity from /v/ in 4chan, you're not gonna get into a reasonable and serious discussion over there, lol. Resetera is also not far off from being like that too. Honestly, the only place where people use their brains is here in the newcomer specific support threads, because even the general threads are full of people with short scope vision or are blinded by fan rules or in denial of certain things. In these newcomer support threads, we at least pay attention to details and have an open mind to what some details and info could lead to, but also being careful not to fall into thinking a character is a "lock", which is the worst thing you could ever do.

There's also the fact that 90% of the Smash Fandom doesn't know how to count when complaining about swordsmen, when they don't even amount 1/4th of the total Ultimate roster. Instead, they should be complaining that half of the swordsmen we have are literally from one same IP, FE… and then we have 3 Links… leaving in the end very little franchise variety within the swordsmen role, which is horrible to look at honestly.
This is why Nintendo ignores people complaining about amount of swordsmen, because that's not even a real complaint that should exist lol (and also because it doesn't affect the success of the game anyway, specially in Japan lol).

There is a reason why people destroyed with dislikes the Byleth trailer, meanwhile Sephiroth and Pyra got positive reactions by a vast majority amount. But people seem to be so blinded by… stupidity, that they don't even realize they've been complaining about the wrong thing all along, and they continue to do so, lol.

 

[Sephirothorsomethingidk]

Hey guys, would it be ok if I asked if you could help Lloyd and Yuri out for some Youtubers Smash fanpolls? His channel is called Slackerz and he runs a Smash poll called Yay or Nay. I ask because Lloyd and Yuri are super low on the list (there's like 30+ characters now and these two are at the very bottom).

 

[Sephirothorsomethingidk]

Hey guys, would it be ok if I asked if you could help Lloyd and Yuri out for some Youtubers Smash fanpolls? His channel is called Slackerz and he runs a Smash poll called Yay or Nay. I ask because Lloyd and Yuri are super low on the list (there's like 30+ characters now and these two are at the very bottom).

Yes I know it's just some fanpoll with no real bearing but I grew tired of seeing them at the dead bottom

 

[Gnateb]

Yes I know it's just some fanpoll with no real bearing but I grew tired of seeing them at the dead bottom

Hey! I watch that series from time to time, and I'm pretty sure Lloyd recently jumped up a ton. He was at like a 30% approval rate, and now he's at like 70%. You all should definitely go vote though.

I'm actually the one who got Slackerz to include Chosen Undead... Rip, he's at 49% and falling now... Maybe if I asked for Artorias, people would've been more inclined to vote yay. He looks more unique.

I like this fanart, I've been overposting it today.

 

[TDDolphin]

Meh Gamefaq still uses it to hate on Lloyd regardless

I feel like GameFaqs hates on everybody though. It just seems to attract all of the angry people like 4chan does.

 

[Nazyrus]

I feel like GameFaqs hates on everybody though. It just seems to attract all of the angry people like 4chan does.

Yeah that's why I say it's just an extension of that place lol, they behave the same.

 

[THE 6r]

Meh Gamefaq still uses it to hate on Lloyd regardless

Real Talk: does anyone care about GameFaqs anymore?

 

[TDDolphin]

Real Talk: does anyone care about GameFaqs anymore?

I used GameFaqs a lot about 20 years ago when I wanted info on how to unlock things in games that I didn't know how to. But that was really it...

 

[Nazyrus]

Real Talk: does anyone care about GameFaqs anymore?

Whoever still licks Vergeben's boots I guess, I dunno lol

I only ever used that site for the guides, nothing else.

 

[IWantMyBurd]

Funnily enough, I discovered GameFAQs because some of Symphonia's puzzles had me stuck

 

[Kamen Minecraft]

Funnily enough, I discovered GameFAQs because some of Symphonia's puzzles had me stuck

Same here, Those Puzzles were really confusing. I also used the guides to 100% Batman Arkham Asylum.

 

[Sephirothorsomethingidk]

Yeah... and it looks like my prediction of a reveal some time this week isn't going to happen... bummer.

A part of me is kind of expecting Lloyd's Mii costume to come back too, possibly with Yuri Lowell, or maybe some other sword-using character like Ryu Hayabusa, Rean Schwarzer, or maybe even a Soulcalibur character. If you think about, some of the Mii Swordfighter's special moves work pretty well for Lloyd's attacks in ToS, so maybe they might just bring the costume back because of that.

It's not exactly a happy scenario, but... it might make sense for them to do that.

Sakurai can keep his happy birthday tweet if thats the case lol.

 

[TDDolphin]

Sakurai can keep his happy birthday tweet if thats the case lol.

Yeesh...

 

[Kamen Minecraft]

Smash is really unpredictable at this point. I don't really know who to expect as the next fighter. It could be anyone.
I wouldn't at all be surprised if the next smash character is someone no one was talking about. On one hand the fact that smash is unpredictable makes things fun. On the other hand not knowing the fate of Lloyd along with other characters worries me.

 

[Sephirothorsomethingidk]

Smash is really unpredictable at this point. I don't really know who to expect as the next fighter. It could be anyone.
I wouldn't at all be surprised if the next smash character is someone no one was talking about. On one hand the fact that smash is unpredictable makes things fun. On the other hand not knowing the fate of Lloyd along with other characters worries me.

Thats because we make it unpredictable due to expecting characters that have no nothing going for them except the occasional rumor, or maybe nothing at all and it's more of a "gut feeling". I may be biased, but I feel something good about Lloyd.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Smash is really unpredictable at this point. I don't really know who to expect as the next fighter. It could be anyone.
I wouldn't at all be surprised if the next smash character is someone no one was talking about. On one hand the fact that smash is unpredictable makes things fun. On the other hand not knowing the fate of Lloyd along with other characters worries me.

It's not really "unpredictable" as much as it is the fanbase being predictable. Fans can only think the biggest third parties and first parties from six months ago unless it's a gen 8 Pokemon can get in, even though we have plenty of evidence that is not the case.

 

[Sephirothorsomethingidk]

It's not really "unpredictable" as much as it is the fanbase being predictable. Fans can only think the biggest third parties and first parties from six months ago unless it's a gen 8 Pokemon can get in, even though we have plenty of evidence that is not the case.

Even after ALL of this, fans are still expecting Crash

 

[TDDolphin]

Even after ALL of this, fans are still expecting Crash

I'm more just really, really hopeful about Crash making it in as opposed to expecting him. But... yeah, I've noticed that a lot of people are expecting Crash at this point. Just like Geno fans were expecting him to make it in after Ridley, King K. Rool and Banjo got in, and look where that went... I've made predictions about characters sure, but I'm not expecting anybody at this point. I feel like doing that right now is just opening yourself up for disappointment.

 

[Sephirothorsomethingidk]

I'm more just really, really hopeful about Crash making it in as opposed to expecting him. But... yeah, I've noticed that a lot of people are expecting Crash at this point. Just like Geno fans were expecting him to make it in after Ridley, King K. Rool and Banjo got in, and look where that went... I've made predictions about characters sure, but I'm not expecting anybody at this point. I feel like doing that right now is just opening yourself up for disappointment.

I get that but a disgusting ugly bootleg mii costume ported directly from Smash 4 and a worthless anniversary tweet is absolutely insulting at this point, at least Geno had a spirit in base game and came back with a character that made sense, I already know they'll just bring back Lloyd's costume like it's nothing and basically mock us for wanting more than a disgusting mii lmfao

 

[ForsakenM]

Hello there Lloyd fans! As a fan of a fellow character who's been waiting a very long time, I come bearing you the best of luck!

I don't have any personal attachment to the game or the Tales Of series at all, but I have someone who I once considered a friend who's been through a lot who would love nothing more than Lloyd's inclusion. When you mix that with generally loving every character we get and always rooting for long-term fan requests, no doubt you guys would have my support, not that it really means all that much.

What I will say though is that I want to share something with you guys, something I didn't realize until last December after a dark period, something I think needs to be said due to some of the posts I've seen and the title of this thread.

Lloyd's Mii Costume is going to return, but it doesn't affect his chances at all.

I know it sounds weird, but it's true, as there are many ways Lloyd's costume can show up and yet still have him be playable, one of them being his costume shows up in the Mii Costume Wave that comes with Lloyd as playable. It could show up in another MCW because Lloyd could come with a crap-ton of costumes and they won't have enough space for them, or Lloyd could flat out be after this pass somewhere but his costume returns with one of the next two characters.

However, the chances that his costume shows up with either MCW 10 or 11 is nigh 100%, and the reason for that is because literally every other single third party costume has made a return other than his. It's clear that a negotiation was made to have them all return within the first two passes as they couldn't make base game and all but one of them have returned within 9 MCWs. This is obviously just recycling assets and touching them up a smidge to make more money off of something you didn't have to put too much effort into.

I hope this doesn't come off rude, because in essence I'm saying that as someone who has little attachment to the character, even if his costume shows up in a MCW with a completely unrelated character I would still expect him to become playable down the line. I know with absolute certainty that Sakurai wouldn't let a slightly-touched-up recycled asset to prevent him from putting in a character, especially someone like Lloyd in which he expressed that it was the only choice for a Tales Of costume in Smash 4 despite having a wide variety of popular characters to choose from. I say all this because I wish someone had been as open-minded at the time to see such a thing and to share it with the Geno Thread so that we wouldn't have collapsed into such a heaping mess and basically fracture and break apart in terms of support over seeing his costume return when it literally means nothing. I don't want to see another support group go through the same thing when they can instead stay strong knowing they haven't lost anything at all.

Good luck to you Irving Lads!