The Definitive Lloyd Irving Thread - fall down seven times, stand up eight (Mii costume confirmed)

[Swamp Sensei]

Weird i wonder why they did that… it's a crossover of symphogear with symphonia

What is Symphogear?

 

[Gitaroo]

What is Symphogear?

Anime franchise about idols in flying powered armour fighting aliens.

Specifically the crossover was with the mobile game spinoff, Symphogear XD Unlimited. The characters got TOS inspired outfits and attacks, apparently.
Reasons why this collab happened include silly title pun association and apparently the writer of Symphonia has some history with the series.

 

[Shergiock]

I think the same: if Lloyd is not the next DLC... RIP, hope to see he on the next Smash Bros. game!

 

[MattX20]

I think the same: if Lloyd is not the next DLC... RIP, hope to see he on the next Smash Bros. game!

I wouldn't say his chances are over until either the DLC ends or the Mii costume returns. It's a wait and see thing at this point

 

[Zeallyx]

I've seen speculation on the number of remaining missing costumes fitting the number of characters still to be released. If that's the case we might get a Lloyd costume along with a different, possibly somehow related, character.

I hope this isn't the case. I agree that Lloyd's chances are still relatively high until we either see the costume return or the DLC period definitively ends.

Dwarven vow #14: "Even a small star shines in the darkness."

 

[andree123]

If we have a double reveal at e3 2021 and it announces Lloyd as CP9 to appeal to the Japanese audience just like , which character should be CP10 to appeal to the western audience like ?

 

[Giga Man]

If we have a double reveal at e3 2021 and it announces Lloyd as CP9 to appeal to the Japanese audience just like , which character should be CP10 to appeal to the western audience like ?

Crash Bandicoot, who just like Banjo-Kazooie is loved by both the west and Japan.

 

[Nightguything]

Crash Bandicoot, who just like Banjo-Kazooie is loved by both the west and Japan.

That would actually be really great.

 

[Nightguything]

Double post, delete

 

[Guynamednelson]

If we have a double reveal at e3 2021 and it announces Lloyd as CP9 to appeal to the Japanese audience just like , which character should be CP10 to appeal to the western audience like ?

If anything they wouldn't need to do a double reveal alongside Lloyd to appeal to both sides of the world. And Hero and Banjo being revealed at the same conference wasn't necessarily an East vs. West thing.

 

[andree123]

If anything they wouldn't need to do a double reveal alongside Lloyd to appeal to both sides of the world. And Hero and Banjo being revealed at the same conference wasn't necessarily an East vs. West thing.

Then how would they get both the east and the west hype with one character?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Then how would they get both the east and the west hype with one character?

Get a character with universal appeal?
This isn't some mutually exclusive thing.

 

[IWantMyBurd]

Get a character with universal appeal?
This isn't some mutually exclusive thing.

Yeah, I mean, Tales of was first made and became popular in Japan, and Lloyd's game introduced the west to the franchise. There'll be a lot of widespread hype if Lloyd gets in.

 

[Nightguything]

Im starting to believe the Scott Menville NDA situation’s gotta be for something else maybe.

We’ve had 4 characters added since then.

 

[andree123]

Im starting to believe the Scott Menville NDA situation’s gotta be for something else maybe.

We’ve had 4 characters added since then.

Still, it is around the time that they were planning fighters for the fighters pass 2 before they were finished with the selection.

EDIT:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

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So Papagenos is speculating a pattern regarding Mii costumes noting how the Heihachi Mii costume came with Min Min whose a fighting game character and now Travis and Gil who have blue swords similar to Steve's diamond sword.

Assuming there's a pattern, Ryu Hayabusa could come next with Lloyd as a Mii fighter since they both possess katanas.

Oh god please no, don't let this pattern come true.

 

[Starlight Liger]

I support Lloyd for Smash. Tales Of is a historic Bandai Namco franchise and the series is deserving of playable fighter representation.

Lloyd may get flack from the casual audience for being another Swordfighter character that comes from an RPG series, but I believe that his third-party status from Bandai Namco and the history of the Tales Of series is expansive enough to alleviate those frustrations. Persronally, I haven't really played any Tales Of games before so I'm more supportive of any playable Tales Of character in Smash as oppose to being adamant of just having Lloyd be the representative.

 

[Nightguything]

https://twitter.com/gematsucom/status/1324428983363080196?s=20

Tales of luminaria is seemingly something of significance, none of the other unused trademarks were ever filed outside of Japan.

 

[Xehanort1372019]

https://nintendoeverything.com/tales-of-series-to-hold-a-25th-anniversary-live-stream-event/

Thought this thread might like this.

 

[IWantMyBurd]

https://nintendoeverything.com/tales-of-series-to-hold-a-25th-anniversary-live-stream-event/

Thought this thread might like this.

I don't want to get my hopes up too much, but darn it, if there's a perfect time for Lloyd to be revealed as a Smash fighter, this is it

 

[Icedragonadam]

I don't want to get my hopes up too much, but darn it, if there's a perfect time for Lloyd to be revealed as a Smash fighter, this is it

Characters aren't revealed in events unrelated to Nintendo. Based on Min Min and Steve we could see the Tales rep announced in Sakurai Presents around Dec 15th. Or even in March when the delayed Tales Of fest takes place.

 

[Nightguything]

Characters aren't revealed in events unrelated to Nintendo. Based on Min Min and Steve we could see the Tales rep announced in Sakurai Presents around Dec 15th. Or even in March when the delayed Tales Of fest takes place.

This ^^

also I believe in the description for the event it says it’ll be mobile games, merchandise and answering fan questions. At most we can maybe see an announcement of a new game (or port?) but def nothing smash related.

 

[Icedragonadam]

If I had to gander a guess at which game will take the top spot on the survey. I'm guessing it will be Destiny Remake since the original Destiny sold the most in Japan. Which I do hope so, since it has one the best battle systems in the series and it hasn't been brought to outside of Japan.

 

[IWantMyBurd]

https://nintendoeverything.com/tales-of-series-to-hold-a-25th-anniversary-live-stream-event/

Thought this thread might like this.

Ignore this, site glitched

 

[MattX20]

How many music tracks at most do you guys think Lloyd will come with? I'm going to guess at least 12 given it's a Bandai Namco property, and the Mii Costume lineup will be all Bandai Namco owned characters.

 

[Gitaroo]

My tracklist if its a Symphonia-specific tracklist:
Full Force
Like a Glint of Light
Fatalize
Keep your guard up!
Fighting of the Spirit
Beat the Angel
The End of a Thought
Final Boss Medley (It can waver and fight + Final Destination)

If other Tales games are kosher I'd probably include a handful of best encounter themes or 'duel' themes from the other games (ie 'irony of fate', 'meaning of birth' and 'Fury Sparks')

 

[Shergiock]

I made this video for YouTube (in spanish ^^") about if Tales of deserves a representation in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. I speak abouts sells, other games from Bandai Namco, and a little valoration about the next DLC fighter (I honestly think that if Lloyd is not the next character he will be a Mii costume...). Hope you like It ^^

¿Se merece Tales of un representante en Super Smash Bros. Ultimate? | Escenario Smash

Desde nuestro blog Tales of Shergiock (https://www.vidaopantalla.es/categoria/blogs/tales-of-shergiock/) os presentamos nuestra respuesta a la incógnita de s...

www.youtube.com

 

[Ypsen]

A friend send this to me at 2 AM.

I'm still laughing.

 

[Gitaroo]

My take on a ToS Spirit board

Spoiler: Long

Spirit	Fighter(s)	Music	Stage	Notes
Genis and Raine Sage	Robin (Blue) Palutena (Red)	Full Force	Gaur Plains (Sylvarant World Map)	-Enemies will suddenly deal increased Magic Damage. (Genis and Raine are the two main magic damage dealers.) -Enemy will suddenly be healed. (Raine is a powerful healing mage.)
Colette Brunel	Main Fighter: Zelda (White) Minions (The initial party.): Lloyd (Lloyd), Robin (Blue, Genis)	Keep your guard up!	Omega Palutenas Temple (Martel Temple)	-Defeat the main fighter to win. -Music, stage, and party represent the conditions of battle against the first boss Vidarr.
Regal Bryant	Blue Ryu	Fatalize	Omega Mario Bros. (Meltokio Sewers)	-Enemy prefers leg attacks. (Regal is a martial artist who has sworn off using his hands.) - The enemy's kicks and knee strikes have increased power
Zelos Wilder	Pink Roy	Beat the Angel	Coliseum (Meltokio Coliseum)	Items are attracted to the enemy. Item: Assist Trophy Only female assist trophies appear.
Sheena Fujibayashi	Main Fighter: Purple Sheik Reinforcements: Incineroar (Fire Spirit Efreet), Corrin (Water Spirit Undine), Pikachu (Lightning Spirit Volt (volt tackle even looks like him haha))	Fighting of the Spirit	Spear Pillar (Summon Spirit Altar)	-Defeat the main fighter to win. -Reinforcements will appear after a set time. (Summon Spirits) -Enemies will suddenly have final smash (Summon Spirits only.)
Presea Combatir	Pink Villager	Like a Glint of Light	Omega Distant Planet (Ozette)	The enemy has super armor and is hard to launch or make flinch. (Because of experiments, Presea is barely emotive and is surprisingly strong/durable) -Enemy favors down special. (Presea is an axe-wielder and works as a lumberjack.) -Enemy’s special moves have increased power.
Kratos Aurion	Red Chrom (cuz he’s a dad)	The end of a thought.	Tower of Salvation (if that’s the DLC stage)/Omega Garden of Hope (Trent Forest)	The enemy will charge up a powerful Final Smash.
Lord Yggdrasil (Evolves into Mithos Yggdrasil)	Main Fighter: Gold Pit Reinforcements (The Desian Grand Cardinals): -Curry Red Simon Belmont (Magnius. Spams Axe.) -Green Samus with Gust Bellows (Forcystus) -Red Palutena (Pronyma) -Blue Robin (Kvar. Uses Thunder only) -Purple Ganondorf (Rodyle)	It can waver and fight/Final Destination	Tower of Salvation (if that’s the stage)/Omega Unova Pokemon League (Derris Kharlan)	•Reinforcement will appear after an enemy is KO'd (Must defeat the Grand Cardinals before Main Fighter appears.)

 

[Deleted member]

He is a genius that Zelos.

 

[Nazyrus]

The closer we get to the anniversary and eventually the fp8, the more nervous i get, ngl...

 

[Gitaroo]

Man if there wasn't so much overlap with the amount of coliseum/stadium themed stages in the game already my ideal Tales of series stage would be one of the coliseums given that they're a series mainstay/tradition and where the cameo battles usually take place, giving a precedent to have Tales char from other games than the rep to appear as cameos, repping the series as a whole.

Maybe it could be unique by being able to stand in the raised crowd seating areas or have a design like the Xillia one where theres a gap between the main platform and the stands.

 

[Shergiock]

I Honestly think that if Bandai Namco don'ts have any new rep on Smash Ultimate, it could be very cruel. Sakurai must know that many people want Lloyd or any Tales of character in Smash Bros., and I really think that Lloyd could be the best option, or making something like Hero with Yuri, Luke and Cress or even Velvet. He said that Heihachi could be very difficult and Gilgamesh don't have so much popularity. If the next charater is not Lloyd, and he is at the end a Mii costume... I won't be angry, but very dissapoinment.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[Nazyrus]

delete, double post

 

[Nazyrus]

Tales of Series 25th Anniversary Special Live Stream set for December 15 https://t.co/sMLTzhc0gr pic.twitter.com/Q6dhqCxBWw

— Gematsu (@gematsu) December 4, 2020

Finally, the obvious date was finally announced lol. I hope we get some good reveals there. The supposed "lots of news" they promised back this summer, that haven't been revealed AT ALL so far.

Misono?
The creator of Symphonia and Abyss?

This really better be good and full of surprises…

 

[Nightguything]

So weird how the official tales of twitter page still hasn’t even mentioned anything for over a month.

 

[Flik]

I think this is the best place to post it:

I modded this Fighting of the Spirit cover by M-H in my Smash Ultimate. I supposed it's a must have for a Lloyd Fighter pack

 

[Ypsen]

I modded this Fighting of the Spirit cover by M-H in my Smash Ultimate. I supposed it's a must have for a Lloyd Fighter pack

It is. Plus this tracks came originally from the first Tales of (Phantasia) on the SNES, I don't see Sakurai overlook this track. And I hope so, it's my favorite from all Tales of battle theme.

Anyway, lately I was thinking of how Lloyd would translate the Tales of (especially Symphonia's) gameplay into Smash. I won't lie, I'm not a big fan of the general and simple idea we come across everywhere on the net, which basically and only associate an arte to an input (Up B > Tempest, rapid jab : sword rain etc). Sure it's the basic idea of tales of since the input are almost exactly the same that in Smash, but I think it's a shame that ideas won't go beyond that. When you think of it, it's the same idea for every character speculation, it just happen that it works even better for Lloyd 'cause he's from Tales of. But in the end, for someone who never played a Tales of, he would never feel any difference from another sword fighter from smash which will have the same simple input, because smash is already having joystick + button inputs.

So I had those ideas for different gameplay of Lloyd, which, I think, would translate very well in Smash while having the feeling to play Tales of. I would like to share it with you guys and know your opinions.

Tech and Strike

I already talked about it as a first idea in this thread several months ago : the tech and strike affiliation could be a gimmick wich would make Lloyd unique and faithful to Tales of Symphonia mechanics.
Just like in the original games, Lloyd could have two sets of different artes. The main question is how to trigger this two modes, since in ToS, you had to chose one and it will develop depending of what EX skill you equipped Lloyd, which takes times. An input (like down B) wouldn't feel natural and faithful to ToS gameplay, so it has to be something progressive wich takes advantage of the T<>S meter.
The meter would be different of a traditionnal "fury" gauge though. It has to depend of the action/choices of the player. So I thought that the meter could change depending of what Input would frequently be used. For example, the more Lloyd would use special moves (B), the meter would increased to the left, and when it would hit the "T", Lloyd would gained new and better special moves. If Lloyd used more smash or tilt attacks, the meter would increased to the right, and theses moves would become better artes. Overall the Tech mode would improve his damage output where the Strike would increase his kill potential. Every Lloyd's moves, not only Specials, should probably be inspired by his artes like we all imagined, but it would be even more fun and true to the character if these artes get a better version of themself, just like in Tales of.
The question is, how many move should be impacted by this system. Only special ? Smash ? Tilts ? Normal grounded and aerial attacks ? I like the idea of the S meter improving Smash and/or tilt while the T improves the specials. Of course the evolution of the meter has to be balanced so it wouldn't end always in the same mode.
This systeme is cool because it's really reminiscent not only of Tales of, but especially of Tales of Symphonia.

The second system (obvious imo, but I rarely see it in many moveset speculation) I propose is something related to how combos work on the Tales of Series. In most Tales of, specifically in ToS, you had to chain different level of artes in order to make a one player combo, Lv1 to Lv3, for example : tiger blade > tiger rage > raining tiger blade, though it doesn't have to be the same family of artes.
It's the core systeme of Tales of battles, even if it has more depth and variation depending of the game, your progression, or the character (Lloyd can for example chain two artes of the same level once per combo). The idea is to emulate this system in Smash.
For complexity issues, I assume it would be better if Lloyd could chain any of his artes, as long as it wouldn't be more than 3 or 4. It could be a pain for non-Tales of gamers to learn the different level of the artes Lloyd uses in order to chain them. Or we could add a visual to his moves indicating its level, in a similar fashion of Marth's dancing blade, but I wouldn't find it natural and true to ToS.
So in the end Lloyd could chain any of his moves which gives awesome and identical combos we can make in Tales of Symphonia. Imagine chaining rapid jab (Sword rain) to tiger blade (Up smash) and finishing with a Psi Tempest (Up B). You could cancel a move with another whenever you like just like in Tales of so you could decide if you land the knockback of a Smash for example, depending if you use it as a finisher. I don't see this system too farfetch when we see what Sakurai was to able to put with Bayonetta or Terry. It has to be carefully balanced though, or Lloyd could become Smash 4 Bayo.
Lloyd could become one of the most stylish and flexible character with this system, but I fear it could be annoying to face against (I hate taking 60% symply because I'm hit by a Bayo side B personnaly), and in order to balance it, Lloyd should have a severe weakness, probably his launch power or his air mobility.

Tales of Symphonia has a unique mechanic called the "ex skills" which are essentially passives skills wich still appear on the following games. The major difference in Symphonia, is that you could only set 4 skills, and it would depend of level of gems you'll find. This was also what influenced the previous Tech and Strike system I talked about earlier.
This systeme would be more of a passive and invisible one. Lloyd wouldn't seem to have a visible gimmick like a gauge or long combos, but he would feel "different" in his playstyle, just like the shotos character (Ryu, Terry...). It boils down to let Lloyd have a several actions or properties that other characters doesn't have in Smash, and which would be faithful to ToS. For example :
T.Guard : armor on his taunts ( it needs bringing back taunts online though),
B.Guard : faster back roll
Counter : very low shieldstun or easier/better parry
Ex Attack : Dealing very low damage % when the opponent is shielding
Etc...
Honnestly, it feels more like something who could be add to the systems I talked earlier. If Lloyd would end having just a gameplay similar to Smash Flash 2 with only the ex skills to make it feel different, I would be disappointed. But it's better than nothing. I guess it's still possible Lloyd wouldn't have anything different to the other fighters, besides his frame data / Range / Damage output. It was the case for Byleth after all.

What do you think ? It's probably because theses ideas came to my mind, but I would love to see them applied for Lloyd in some way.

 

[Gitaroo]

Very good ideas. Took the words out of my mouth with the Technical/Strike gauge. I think it's a pretty integral part of representing both Symphonia and also the large Arte/movepool and variations that is iconic to the Tales series. I wrote up a similar doc but I didn't get around to posting it.

So here it is now:

Spoiler: Long

0.0 Preface

• A common knock against Lloyd is that his moveset would be too ‘basic’ or reminiscent of fighters existing in the game including the Mii Swordfighter which has previously appeared as a skin over and indeed currently still has moves that are reminiscent of classic iconic moves from the Tales Series. In addition a common theme with the Fighter Pass so far is the existence of some kind of gimmick, either large or small.
• So in this doc I thought I’d brainstorm some possible ‘gimmicks’ or ‘mechanics’ Lloyd could possible come with to really make him stand out and better represent his gameplay style and series. Note that not all of these are systems I’d necessarily ‘want’ or think are a 100% ‘good idea’ or think are a ‘must have’, just throwing some thoughts and possibilities out there as a fan of the franchise(s). Most of these have probably been said before but here I gooooo

1.0 Symphonia-Specific Mechanics:

As the first 3D Tales game, Symphonia laid the groundwork for its follow-ups and its echoes are still present in the series today. That being said, this means that the few mechanics ‘unique’ to Symphonia are a lot less flashy, but let’s see what we can work with.

1.1Unison Attacks:

Lloyd and Raine performing a Compound Special Attack. ‘Photon Tempest’ is activated because Lloyd used a ‘Tempest’ line special move alongside Raine using ‘Photon’.

Unique to Symphonia is a gauge called the Unison Gauge. Over the course of a battle, the gauge will fill up and when the Z button is pressed the controlled character will deliver an unblockable strike. This triggers a state where each of your face buttons is associated with one of your party members, and pressing a button and a direction will make them cast/perform an assigned technique which is unblockable and unavoidable for the enemy. When certain combinations of moves are used it triggers a ‘Compound Special Attack’, combining aspects of both moves into one attack. Similar combination attacks are found in later titles with different names and activated under different conditions.

In terms of Smash implementation, not quite sure how I’d implement this. It seems more suited for a final smash a la Shulks. Perhaps something like Cloud’s Limit mechanic and upgrading one of Lloyd’s techniques when the gauge is full by calling upon a partner? Possibilities include:

Sonic Thrust -> Cross Thrust (Kratos/Zelos performing a rush attack from a different angle alongside him.)

Beast-> Fiery Beast/Thunder Beast (Spellcaster turning his normal blowback shockwave into a fiery/electrical explosion)

Tiger Blade -> Lightning Tiger Blade (Adds a stunning bolt of lightning in between his two slash combo.)

1.2 Technical/Strike Branches:

Lloyd’s Status Screen in ToS, showing him aligned with the ‘Technical’ path. This graphic could be used for a potential Technical/Strike gauge.

Also unique to Symphonia is branching skill pathways for special moves. By equipping ‘EX Gems’ Lloyd and his party can sway their builds towards the ‘Technical’ and ‘Strike’ branches. When they use a Lv. 1 Technique/Base Arte enough times while aligned with a given branch they will learn the next level of the technique along the branch. Examples include:

Projectile ‘Demon Fang’ leading into either the Technical ‘Double Demon Fang’ (shoots two projectiles) or the Strike ‘Fierce Demon Fang’ (becoming a short ranged powerful shockwave).

Spinning rolling slash ‘Tempest’ leading into either the Technical ‘Omega Tempest’ (Ascends vertically for comboing) or the Strike ‘Psi Tempest’ (Launches self forward horizontally.)

Effects vary but overall for the most part ‘Technical’ moves focus more on combo-ing/utility while Strike artes are more on the knockback/damage focused side.

Implementing this is a complicated venture. Here’s some ideas.
-Has a gauge above his percentage that shows his current leaning, which can be influenced by either performing repeated smash attacks (Strike) or doing technical moves such as dodging and rolling(Technical).

-Perhaps instead of the above, the simple ability to swap between the two. (Shield + Special?)

-In order to not lock out parts of his moveset that the player would prefer for properties that the ‘upgraded’ versions lack (like wanting the range of ‘Demon Fang’ instead of the short ranged ‘Fierce Demon Fang’) perhaps just pressing the button would perform the ‘Base’ version of the skill and a firm held full button press would perform the upgraded one.

-Maybe instead both versions exist simultaneously, with alternate button inputs (e.g. press ‘B’ once for ‘Demon Fang’. Press it twice in succession for ‘Double Demon Fang’. Hold for ‘Fierce Demon Fang’.)

1.3 Elemental Grid

The Element Grid from DOTNW (bottom left). The grid has 2 Earth symbols and 3 Light, thus Light is the Primary Element. The Light Element character Marta (pictured) benefits from the field property.

Ok this is technically a Symphonia game so I guess I’ll at least mention this. A mechanic in ToS: Dawn of the New World, ToS’s sequel/spinoff. Whenever an elemental attack is used an icon of the element appears on the spokes of the ‘wheel’. When there are 3 of any icon, it changes the primary ‘element’ of the field. When certain compatible Artes are used when a particular element is in play, the arte is altered into an elementally empowered version. Each party member (human or recruited monster) has an associated element and gets an HP regen effect (Lloyd is associated with Fire in this game). Also effects the attack that results from this game’s version of the Unison Attack.

Unlikely to be implemented as it’s from a less popular and contentious follow-up, also it would be complicated, not really have any cohesion with his moveset/fighting style and Lloyd wouldn’t have any real way of manipulating this grid with his non-elemental sword-based moveset but I thought I’d at least mention it.

2.0 From Tales in General

2.1 Overlimit

Lloyd entering Overlimit state from being hit in ToS(left). A character being blown away by the activation of overlimit in Tales of the Abyss (right)

Debuted in Symphonia. Exists in a good amount of Tales game safterwards but functions differently in each. The Symphonia version activated when someone took enough damage and then gained a black aura. This made them take half damage and made them immune to being staggered/knockback. Was required to use their Mystic Arte/Ultimate Attack. Would probably hard to balance.

Could use/combine aspects of Overlimit from later titles. These include being able to activate at will once a certain gauge fills, creating a burst of energy to get enemies off of you (maybe a wind box), being able to chain artes into each other without limitation (see 2.4), or making artes consume no TP (See 2.2).

2.2 TP(Technical Point) Bar

A traditional MP bar seen in most JRPGs, Tales of Symphonia included. Needed for performing special attacks/Artes. Replenishes when enemies are hit. Stronger techniques require more TP. Drains fast if you spam special moves. Could work with the Multiple Arte Levels (see 1.2) as an incentive to use your weaker versions, as they cost less TP. Could be seen as stepping on Hero’s toes, albeit on a melee/combo focused character rather than a magic user.

2.3 CC (Chain Capacity)

Image of the CC Gauge from Tales of Destiny (PS2). Stahn is at his current capacity, at 8.

An alternative to the TP points system seen in some Tales games. Each character had a counter/gauge and actions they performed (such as normal attacks, using specials, and certain mobility options) would deplete it by certain amounts. The gauge would quickly return to full if the character was left alone, but stalled if they were hit. This made it so the characters couldn’t just spam their attacks and special moves willy-nilly, and added pressure to being under attack and having to guard as your CC wouldn’t recharge so you couldn’t counter attack or evade. You could also replenish CC quickly via certain actions in battle or even mid-combo, like landing a critical hit or evading an enemies attack with a back step.

In Smash this could translate into Lloyd being able to chain his attacks (normal and specials) into each other (See also 2.4) as long as he has CC. Similarly he will have to keep track of his current CC and take time to replenish it either by pausing in between combos or performing well timed dodges to replenish them. If he is out of CC he could possibly have his attacks, special moves and mobility options weakened, or maybe even locked off entirely until it recharges, balancing his oppressive combo abilities by dis-incentivizing him from being on the offensive at all times.

2.4 Comboing/Arte Chaining

A visual example, showing Tales of Grace’s A-Arte tree. The arte used will depend on the direction the player is holding and the place in the combo. The different levels use different amounts of CC.

Comboing is a major part of the Tales series’ action battle system. The way it works in ToS and some other Tales games is that special moves have a hierarchy (Lvl 1/2/3 in ToS, later localized as Base/Master/Arcane Artes.) These artes chain into each other in ascending order.

This mechanic could function in Smash similar to (as a poster in the OP put it) Marth’s Dancing Blade, but with all his specials. It could change the arte used to a higher level arte depending on the place in the combo (ie the arte used could be Demon Fang/Fierce Demon Fang/Demonic Tiger Blade depending on the place it is used in the combo). Maybe his Jabs could count towards the combo placement, so he could use Jab->Jab->Lv.3. To balance, the higher level Artes could cost more TP/CC (See 2.2 and 2.3) so you don’t want to use the full combo too often lest you be left with no resources.

 

[Ypsen]

Wow, we did have the same ideas overall. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought about that, it raises the chances that Sakurai could have the same ideas.

I like the idea of having Shield + B input to swap his S/T mode, it wouldn't take the place of a special move and it would be easier to balance. Didn't think about that.

 

[Zeallyx]

Hoping the Tales of annviersary stream on the 15th ties in to LLoyd for Smash