The D-Air Discussion thread.

[Batteries]

From observation, I have noticed that most of you seem to think Lucas' dair has 3 hits to it. This is entirely false. It has 4. Go to practice mode, turn the speed down all the way, and watch. I believe the pattern is kick-hexagon-kick-hexagon with the spike on the final hexagon.

4 hits kids. 4 hits.

 

[Roger Racebannon]

Every time I see your name on the forums, an ad for Duracell batteries shows up too.

Just throwin that out there.

 

[Mooplet]

Batteries:

Everyone knows this, it makes four noises, you see four hits... every time you hit someone with the full attack.

I don't know who you think is confused lol

 

[Levitas]

People have been saying 3 hits until like yesterday for some reason.

 

[MTFFFG]

i learned it just yesterday. this kind of helps with spiking since now i know how high i need to be and all the other measurements.

 

[Rabble2]

good one
i will now proceed to throw out this novel i wrote detailing the aerial attacks of all the characters in brawl
i guess all that work was a waste

well, better go hang myself now...

 

[TechnoMonster]

Here's another tip, don't really use Lucas' down air unless you're trying to spike someone well below the stage.

 

[perezo]

well i think its more like- kick, kick, kick, kick. With hexagons coming out on the 1st and 3rd, and the last kick is a spike. That's what i saw

 

[Kidochi]

And that the fourth one is a spike. Don't forget to add that.

 

[Hardcorenesser]

a while ago i said it had 4 hits but everyone ignored me...

 

[MTFFFG]

a while ago i said it had 4 hits but everyone ignored me...

they ignored you because your opinion is unimportant

 

[-NEOLINK-]

I think people got it confused because, Lucas's DAir has 3 hitboxes (or so i've heard) and people must've assumed that it meant that there was 3 hits or something.
Lucas is a beast!

 

[Trozz]

If you land before you get your forth hit off, you have a 'hard landing', and there are a few recovery frames. If you land after the fourth hit, you don't suffer any lag frames and can act immediately.

 

[Batteries]

If you land before you get your forth hit off, you have a 'hard landing', and there are a few recovery frames. If you land after the fourth hit, you don't suffer any lag frames and can act immediately.

This is exactly why you do not sh dair.

 

[KirbyKaze]

if you jull jump your dairs instead of pretending you can sh them, this whole "lag" thing is avoided.

 

[tehbeef]

Here's another tip, don't really use Lucas' down air unless you're trying to spike someone well below the stage.

No.
NO.
Have you ever tried SHing the dAir? Try it. Characters get sucked into it, and are almost ALWAYS hit by every kick, and then the spike slams them into the ground, and if they're a little slow and you're ready for it, you can very easily combo it into an uTilt, from which Lucas can destroy empires with his aerial game (from underneath).

Plus it punches through most uSmashes and uTilts better than pretty much everything that I know of bar Luigi's dB.

Lucas' dAir is a f**king good move. Along with most of his aerials and tilts, it is easily one of his bread-and-butter moves.

 

[GofG]

tehbeef, SH'd dairs are useless. Sorry. They simply don't do enough damage, they don't cover enough of your body, and if they miss, you get punished by whatever their strongest attack is, with the possible exception of 3D's or Ike's fsmash. It's better to approach with advancing SHPKFs and then, when you get close, a sh nair, fair, or a ftilt. These will keep the hitbox between you and the enemy, which is what you want, rather than having the hitbox indirectly hit your enemy, leaving you open.

If you can show me a video of a match against a decent player where you can shdair often and not get punished every time, I'll retract my statement, however.

 

[Deeja]

This is new and exciting.

 

[tehbeef]

tehbeef, SH'd dairs are useless. Sorry. They simply don't do enough damage, they don't cover enough of your body, and if they miss, you get punished by whatever their strongest attack is, with the possible exception of 3D's or Ike's fsmash. It's better to approach with advancing SHPKFs and then, when you get close, a sh nair, fair, or a ftilt. These will keep the hitbox between you and the enemy, which is what you want, rather than having the hitbox indirectly hit your enemy, leaving you open.

If you can show me a video of a match against a decent player where you can shdair often and not get punished every time, I'll retract my statement, however.

Well I don't rake through videos... for anything, really. I've watched few myself, and hardly have a library of videos showcasing all the things I like about (insert something here). Let's put it down to style, it really does avoid a meaningless argument.

I don't spam specific moves very often at all, either. I don't SHPKF to approach very often, as I just don't like spamming at all, and I like to preserve my PK fires and keep them as more of a surprise attack. More often then that I'll lunge at an enemy with a nAir and air dodge when I get reeealy close, and then either uTilt to start an aerial combo, or just sideTilt to knock them away to start another approach (or sometimes a mini-combo).

And I don't know what Brawl you're talking about, but I don't find the dAir hard to hit with AT ALL, especially when it's SH-d, as I said, because foes are completely sucked into it as Lucas sort of floats above the ground. I honestly find it to be one of the most RELIABLE ways to combo into an uTilt to then knock them into the air, so that Lucas can start breaking castles.

That said though, I haven't done extensive testing against EVERY single opponent. It may well be that this is only effective against a select few characters, but regardless I will not retract my claim the the dAir is one of Lucas' fundamental moves when used right. Even with the low damage, it doesn't matter. The important thing is just how ****ed effective it is for combo-ing into an uTilt, which is very important for initiating Lucas's epic aerial game.

Edit: Oh, I'd also like to add that I do realize that generally fAir is a much more useful move, but personally I like to avoid spamming it and using excessively for combos because of how **** good it is as a finisher. Using it less helps avoid degeneration and makes it more surprising when it is suddenly whipped out.

 

[tehbeef]

Well I don't rake through videos... for anything, really. I've watched few myself, and hardly have a library of videos showcasing all the things I like about (insert something here). Let's put it down to style, it really does avoid a meaningless argument.

I don't spam specific moves very often at all, either. I don't SHPKF to approach very often, as I just don't like spamming at all, and I like to preserve my PK fires and keep them as more of a surprise attack. More often then that I'll lunge at an enemy with a nAir and air dodge when I get reeealy close, and then either uTilt to start an aerial combo, or just sideTilt to knock them away to start another approach (or sometimes a mini-combo).

And I don't know what Brawl you're talking about, but I don't find the dAir hard to hit with AT ALL, especially when it's SH-d, as I said, because foes are completely sucked into it as Lucas sort of floats above the ground. I honestly find it to be one of the most RELIABLE ways to combo into an uTilt to then knock them into the air, so that Lucas can start breaking castles.

That said though, I haven't done extensive testing against EVERY single opponent. It may well be that this is only effective against a select few characters, but regardless I will not retract my claim the the dAir is one of Lucas' fundamental moves when used right. Even with the low damage, it doesn't matter. The important thing is just how ****ed effective it is for combo-ing into an uTilt, which is very important for initiating Lucas's epic aerial game.

Edit: Oh, I'd also like to add that I do realize that generally fAir is a much more useful move, but personally I like to avoid spamming it and using excessively for combos because of how **** good it is as a finisher. Using it less helps avoid degeneration and makes it more surprising when it is suddenly whipped out.

2nd Edit: Wait, what was the point of all this? In my first post all I did was object to (insert name here... sorry)'s suggestion that dAir is totally useless. You brought a completely different point - that it's a crappy move for approaching with, which I generally agree with (I use it circumstantially, and very rarely for a surprise approach/controlling maneuver where I skim above the opponent's head).

This (potential) argument is based... on pretty much nothing, really.

 

[TechnoMonster]

It's techno, and SH D-air is easily punished if you're not playing with delay on Wifi.

Even if you hit them.

If you're falling from above and they want to hit you with a u-air, great, D-air them, and then find some stronger opponents.

 

[tehbeef]

It's techno, and SH D-air is easily punished if you're not playing with delay on Wifi.

Even if you hit them.

If you're falling from above and they want to hit you with a u-air, great, D-air them, and then find some stronger opponents.

Ok, sorry about the name thing.

But honestly I still don't get all the hate on dAir.

Like I keep stressing, it is a circumstantial thing. But given a decent % on your opponent, if you have the timing down it is VERY easy to SH dAir into their heads. Obviously, using dAir against a 0% opponent is pretty stupid, unless you're making an educated bluff (because remember, a human opponent is best at reacting quickly when the expected happens - if you occasionally mix up their expectations, you can get away with unusual approaches to fighting). They take all 4 hits due to getting sucked into the attack, and if you had the timing right (which honestly, you should most of the time if you're a Lucas main) you land with minimal lag and can combo straight into an uTilt, and because of how **** quick that is, there usually isn't much room to be punished at all. Alternatively, after landing the dAir, B-stick (or input normally, if that's your fancy) a PSIM and release to smack them if they try rolling quickly away/teching.

And your point about Wi-fi is meaningless, because being in Australia, there's not particularly ample opportunity to use it at all. This has all been done against decent human opponents.

The general point I'm making is that I consider a mixed-up approach to Lucas to be far better than a SHPKF spamming Lucas. Maybe it's just me, but I find constant ad-lib-ing to be much more (and unpredictable) than move spamming. If it helps you to understand my position, my secondary is Snake - I prefer to be unpredictable and unorthodox than to follow the established, but highly predictable convention (In Lucas's case, PKF spamming, in Snake's case, it seems to be 'nade spamming, which I must admit I do do jus' a lil' <p).

 

[Mainland]

In my limited experience, whenever I land a Dair against my friend (mains pika), he can get me with a Dair of his own before I can connect the Utilt. So I took the Dair out of my play when then opponent is on the ground. This is online though, as I haven't played him in real time yet, so this post is kinda a waste of space.

 

[Batteries]

In my limited experience, whenever I land a Dair against my friend (mains pika), he can get me with a Dair of his own before I can connect the Utilt. So I took the Dair out of my play when then opponent is on the ground. This is online though, as I haven't played him in real time yet, so this post is kinda a waste of space.

When you hit him with the Dair, I'm assuming you hit all 4 times. What I'd recommend is landing next to him and hitting him with an FSmash.

 

[Hardcorenesser]

they ignored you because your opinion is unimportant

jerk your opinion is less important then mine. besides, it wasn't an opinion... it was a fact. maybe you should pay more attention to people.

.........sorry i didn't see this page of posts that was kind of a long time ago.

 

[Colin Mitchell]

dAir isn't useless, but in my experience it is when it's shorthopped. Full hopped or timed correctly while falling it can spike or combo into a fsmash. But I guarantee if you're playing against anyone who isn't exceptionally slow (AKA Ike, maybe Ganondorf), they've got a move that can hit you harder than you hit them if you land during your dair.

 

[Batteries]

I'm changing the name of this thread, just so you know.

 

[Levitas]

Make sure that you only use the Dair in instances when it'll autocancel, the lag is enough to get punished (quite severely if it's against the wrong character).

Also, try Full hopping this above the ledge if someone's hanging on it. It is pretty safe, and is scary enough (meteored off the edge is a bad way to go) to get them to do something while you're still around to pressure/punish them.

Just make sure you don't land too close to the edge, or the punishment could go the other way.

 

[Ebonyks]

The effectiveness of a Sh'ed D-air depends entirely on the character you're playing against. Someone like toon link, game and watch, or even against ditto lucas, it's viable. Against big characters like bowser, marth, d3, or even luigi, it must be full jumped to be useful.

With that said, it's an effective move if you use it well. Four hit d-air combo'ed with a f-tilt does 32 damage. If they miss the tech, you can pull out the stick as well.

 

[TechnoMonster]

I fail to understand how you can possibly land a f-tilt after a D-air, but I'm being crotchety about it. It autocancels after the 4th hit, right? And pretty well after? I mean I just don't see it being fast enough to do anything, but I will admit it has amazing downward range and can do some decent damage, so it's good when they're just standing right below you, but it's SO laggy and sets you up so poorly...

 

[Ebonyks]

^

It's all situational and character based. After hitting a smaller character ala toon link with the 4th hit, you fast fall to the ground and buffer the move so it happens the frame after you land. I've never seen anyone tech out of it before, but maybe i've only been playing against n00bs.

 

[Starstorm]

well, the main problem i have with lucas's Dair is that when i try to spike someone downwards, i usually end up fast falling. i am trying everything, light tapping down, but he falls just as fast as the opponent does.


can this be changed? is there something im doing wrong?

i usually stick with his Bair meteor smash, but that is rough to time sometimes. his Dair would be easier to time.


plz help

 

[GofG]

Let go of Down sooner. Sorry, that's pretty much all there is to it.

 

[memphischains]

well, the main problem i have with lucas's Dair is that when i try to spike someone downwards, i usually end up fast falling. i am trying everything, light tapping down, but he falls just as fast as the opponent does.


can this be changed? is there something im doing wrong?

i usually stick with his Bair meteor smash, but that is rough to time sometimes. his Dair would be easier to time.


plz help

Hit down a ON the way up, not it its peak. and his bair spike is so nasty. i feel better about ym self as a person when i pull it off. soo sweeeet

 

[Levitas]

Dairs auto fast fall in this game, memphischains has the only solution right.