Data The Comprehensive Guide to Link's AT's

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Does anyone know what it is that impacts the momentum of a bombslide? Sometimes I'll slide reasonably far and then other times, I'll barely move after throwing the bomb in the air? Is it simply a matter of inputting the Up Throw too soon?

It's just about what frame of the dash throw you cancelled. I might get you a more definite answer latter when I get the time.

 

[Siledh]

It's just about what frame of the dash throw you cancelled. I might get you a more definite answer latter when I get the time.

No worries, I was just curious. Got to work a bit harder at those inputs.

 

[Lawz.]

The distance your bomb slide will go all depends on the frames of the dash being canceled. It's the same concept as Sheik's vanish glide, inputting it during the first frames of a dash gives her the greatest distance, whereas doing it at the end of her dash allows her to go through the vanish animation while barely moving at all.

 

[Siledh]

The distance your bomb slide will go all depends on the frames of the dash being canceled. It's the same concept as Sheik's vanish glide, inputting it during the first frames of a dash gives her the greatest distance, whereas doing it at the end of her dash allows her to go through the vanish animation while barely moving at all.

So if I need to cancel the dash throw in, say, frames 1-3 then if I cancel the dash throw in frame three, I will barely slide at all? And after frame 3, it becomes a fake-out, right?

ETA: These are just example frame numbers and not based on any data. I've no idea at what frame it stops being an actual throw and starts being a fake-out.

 

[DUKEL]

Some ideas I have (some of them are stupid be warned) -

• Melee Taunt Fakeout
• Carefree Bombslide
• Emo Kid's Bombslide (do this as dark link and you'll really see it)
• Flippin' Fakeout

 

[Linkmario00]

Some ideas I have (some of them are stupid be warned) -

• Melee Taunt Fakeout
• Carefree Bombslide
• Emo Kid's Bombslide (do this as dark link and you'll really see it)
• Flippin' Fakeout

Carefree Bomnslide it's so ****ing epic!

 

[Elessar]

How about "No Fs Bombslde".

 

[Zerker]

My suggestion (as I said in the xat) is the Discard (Fakeout) Bombslide, because he's playing the animation he does when he discards an item.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I did that frame by frame testing for the bombslide to see how far Link slides. The results are quite interesting.

If you intend to test this stuff yourself, note that the dash throw will not occur if done within the first few frames of a dash (you'll get a standing throw which cannot be cancelled).
All descriptions of animations are of Link doing a dash throw towards the right side of the stage.
All measurements of slides represent estimations from the moment the up-throw input is done as to how many squares on the stage 'Wrecking Crew' Link slides.
As I can only skip two frames at a time, the odd numbers are gotten by letting go of hold at the right time (trial and error) to get the first frame and then skipping forward from there.
Each bombslide input was done with the grab button for the dash throw and the c-stick set to smash for the up-throw.

Frame 1 (Link begins to pull bomb back to throw, bomb is just past his body with his feet slightly crouched): Link slides 5 1/2 squares
Frame 2 (Link holds bomb well behind him): 5 squares
Frame 3 (Link brings arm forward and Bomb ends up just behind his head): 4 1/2 squares [becomes an u-throw fake-out on this frame]
Frame 4 (Link actually throws the bomb, his arm outstretched and horizontal with the bomb having just left his hand): 4 squares
Frame 5 (Link's arm is angled slightly downwards from the throw): 2 squares only
Frame 6 (Link's arm is now pointing almost completely downwards but still at a slight angle): Bombslide will not work.

This means with joystick up-throw inputs, you have to do it on the exact right frame (frame 2) if you want to do non-fake out versions. This is because, as I mentioned in the guide, on frame 1 a joystick up-throw input will not register while a c-stick up will. I never knew this tech was so difficult 0_o. Test it yourself. If you can make the game pause on a different frame of the dash-throw in-between any of the ones I have mentioned above, then I'm wrong. Just make sure you dash far enough before trying to dash throw otherwise you'll get the different animation of the standing throw.

This also explains why sometimes you get a really poor distance on the bombslide. It just means that you did it on the last possible frame (frame 5), so do it slightly faster next time.

I'll add this info where necessary to all the bombslide stuff above.
I'll also add the new bombslide and I can change the name later if we ever actually come to a consensus on it.

 

[Siledh]

Good to know.

What proportion of the stage is 5 squares?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Good to know.

What proportion of the stage is 5 squares?

Have a look at the stage...

 

[Siledh]

Have a look at the stage...

Ah, I thought you were using some other grid. D'oh.

 

[DarkDeity15]

FSK doesn't prey upon those idiotic vanities like hopeful half-wits such as yourself. In your brief time here you've already shown every weakness, fault and misdemeanor known to man, from spewing platitudes to 'discovering' ******** new tricks, and from dissing respected members to insulting men on mere whims, but with this comment you have confirmed that you don't understand even our most basic, idiot-proof jokes. There is nothing more repulsive on this planet than your desperate attempts at fitting in here, and your stupendous failure is testament to your unaccommodating selfishness and unbelievable incompetence. Just shut your mouth and learn whatever you can here -- your own miserable attempt at setting up an AT thread was a failure, now stand by and let competent people handle it.


If you weren't some poor semi-idiot whose dreams outlast his capacities you'd be able to do it yourself. Otherwise show some patience -- it's a good virtue, especially for meddlesome fools.

My middle finger goes up for you, good sir.

Edit: Wow, seems like I've missed something big here. That bombslide looks sick af. Imagine what commentators would say if they saw that being performed consistently in a real match, lol. I've got to practice this. XD. I doubt there's any use for it outside of just being a stylish fake-out bomb slide, but still a really cool find none the less.

I vote for LHDC (Long Hair Don't Care) fake-out bomb slide. And yes, hopefully there's a way for Link to actually toss the bomb with that animation. That could very well be useful. I wonder how exactly Link initiates it though. It could be code from earlier in the game's development where they considered it to be a way for Link to toss his bombs. Unless of course you could do this in Brawl as well.

I really hope Nintendo doesn't patch bombsliding out, but at this point it seems inevitable. Especially with the recent exposure of the DACIT on the front page of Smashboards. The fake-out variations just look so janky (not that I have a problem with it, lol), and no doubt are a bug of some sort. And you know how Nintendo feels about bugs. I hope that because they patched DACUS and left this in the game, that it was done on purpose and chose to leave DACIT in the game permanently.

 

[DUKEL]

How does the bombslide make Link OP?

It doesn't. So it's not going to be patched out, and FG scrubs aren't complaining about it because the inputs are likely to not register on FG.

 

[Elessar]

How does the bombslide make Link OP?

It doesn't. So it's not going to be patched out, and FG scrubs aren't complaining about it because the inputs are likely to not register on FG.

They did patch out DACUS and Toss Cancel even though they weren't broken and nobody was complaining simply because they were glitches and non intended play.

 

[Siledh]

They did patch out DACUS and Toss Cancel even though they weren't broken and nobody was complaining simply because they were glitches and non intended play.

So how long do you reckon it'll take them to patch out the bombslide?

 

[Elessar]

So how long do you reckon it'll take them to patch out the bombslide?

Well, considering they still haven't they might not. MIGHT. Other than that, it could happen with any patch. Remember that Sakurai's logic in balancing is to make it so that anybody can win regardless of skill, and his patches are based on FG winning ratio and representation.

 

[Zelkam]

Well, considering they still haven't they might not. MIGHT. Other than that, it could happen with any patch. Remember that Sakurai's logic in balancing is to make it so that anybody can win regardless of skill, and his patches are based on FG winning ratio and representation.

If that's the case then bombslides should be safe because they're hard enough to pull off without WiFail lag. The chances of all the izawmbie FG shrubs actually starting to use bomb slides on a semi regular bases is zero to none.

 

[Zerker]

If that's the case then bombslides should be safe because they're hard enough to pull off without WiFail lag. The chances of all the izawmbie FG shrubs actually starting to use bomb slides on a semi regular bases is zero to none.

I . . . should stop screwing around in FG if that's the case. Crap, crap, crap, crap . . .
I really hate how the dev team is getting their data for balance patches.

 

[Elessar]

If that's the case then bombslides should be safe because they're hard enough to pull off without WiFail lag. The chances of all the izawmbie FG shrubs actually starting to use bomb slides on a semi regular bases is zero to none.

But it's a mechanic. If others do it and bring enough attention to it (as in, the megamans), they could patch the mechanic out. Similarly to how they patched out tilting with an item and bomb smashing even though nobody was doing it and it didn't break any characters. Sakurai clearly wants the game to be played his way, and anything that deviates from his idea of how it has to be played will be patched out at some point.

 

[Dumbfire]

It is clearly a glitch -- that is, unintended. We are lucky it has been in for so long, but the more attention is heaped on (like those idiotic Megamen going "OMG GUYZ NEW TECH" and posting it to the front page, forgetting people have been doing it literally since 2008) the more likely it is to be patched out.

 

[Siledh]

Ugh, Sakurai needs to learn to leave some of these things in.

It is clearly a glitch -- that is, unintended. We are lucky it has been in for so long, but the more attention is heaped on (like those idiotic Megamen going "OMG GUYZ NEW TECH" and posting it to the front page, forgetting people have been doing it literally since 2008) the more likely it is to be patched out.

This is my fear. The DACIT is clearly a glitch and Mega Man is really going to bring it to the fore. We might be seeing the end of the glorious bombslide.

 

[Knife8193]

Bombslides are still kinda confusing for me, especially with all the variations. Perhaps it would be more easier to understand if the inputs had buttons icon rather than text (or supplemented). I know that buttons can of course be assigned to anything, but just for demonstration purposes, the reader will have to assume all buttons are default (a-stick is kinda tricky though, there would probably be a whole new set of inputs depending on if set to smash attacks or tilts, though IMO most Links would probably set it to tilt because of soft throws). Just a suggestion, great guide!

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Bombslides are still kinda confusing for me, especially with all the variations. Perhaps it would be more easier to understand if the inputs had buttons icon rather than text (or supplemented). I know that buttons can of course be assigned to anything, but just for demonstration purposes, the reader will have to assume all buttons are default (a-stick is kinda tricky though, there would probably be a whole new set of inputs depending on if set to smash attacks or tilts, though IMO most Links would probably set it to tilt because of soft throws). Just a suggestion, great guide!

Not having button icons and not using button specific terminology (wherever possible) was a deliberate choice to avoid the kinds of issues that you yourself have outlined. The GC controller is by no means the only viable option. A lot of people don't use and/or are unfamiliar with the GC controller. Out of the people that do use it and are familiar with it, many of them don't use the default layout. It makes very little sense these days to confine explanations to the default layout of the GC controller, and anyone who still does needs to get with the times.

 

[Lawz.]

I use default, get at me.

 

[FSK]

I use default, get at me.

I suppose there is no need for a custom button layout to do SH/FJ/DJ fair.

 

[Zerker]

Bombslides are still kinda confusing for me, especially with all the variations. Perhaps it would be more easier to understand if the inputs had buttons icon rather than text (or supplemented). I know that buttons can of course be assigned to anything, but just for demonstration purposes, the reader will have to assume all buttons are default (a-stick is kinda tricky though, there would probably be a whole new set of inputs depending on if set to smash attacks or tilts, though IMO most Links would probably set it to tilt because of soft throws). Just a suggestion, great guide!

The easiest way I know to do it is to just turn tap jump off, set your c-stick to attack, and:
Dash --> Quarter circle Up --> [Grab + A-stick down]

 

[Ampetrix]

Just wanted to say thanks for this awesome guide. I read all of it bur started on the bombs section. It was really frustrating to get it right at first, but I can finally do it with ease (thankfully I started at 1/4x speed first).

 

[DarkDeity15]

Just wanted to say thanks for this awesome guide. I read all of it bur started on the bombs section. It was really frustrating to get it right at first, but I can finally do it with ease (thankfully I started at 1/4x speed first).

It's good to know that the guide helped you out. Just try to spread the news around to other Link players as well. You'll really want to implement some of these ATs into your playstyle if you want to improve your game. Link thrives off of bomb ATs (more specifically soft throws, bomb slides and C4s), & pivot ATs (Because proper spacing is very critical when it comes to Link. If you aren't good at spacing, you aren't good at playing Link.), so you should try to learn about and utilize them first and foremost.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

It's good to know that the guide helped you out. Just try to spread the news around to other Link players as well. You'll really want to implement some of these ATs into your playstyle if you want to improve your game. Link thrives off of bomb ATs (more specifically soft throws, bomb slides and C4s), & pivot ATs (Because proper spacing is very critical when it comes to Link. If you aren't good at spacing, you aren't good at playing Link.), so you should try to learn about and utilize them first and foremost.

I would just like to address a certain issue at this point.
I've updated the OP in the beginning section to include a small list of guides. I had already made a small mention of the fact that AT's should not be used to become a better player as they are no replacement for poor fundamentals, but I would just like to further emphasise this point in light of the general feel that I'm getting from this post.
Please feel free to check out the list of guides in the OP. I will add more as more are made.

 

[link and ike lover]

This is a very good thread

 

[DarkDeity15]

Heyo. I've got a couple of ATs here that you may want to consider.

Meteor Bomb Lag Cancel (needs testing for proper information, as I'd assume that some of the info here is incorrect) ~

Description: The endlag of any move is canceled by the explosion of a meteor bomb.

How to perform: You must either be near enough to the bomb or be holding it so that when timed right, the explosion cancels the lag of any desired move. You also can meteor bomb lag cancel at higher % (at which point you start to bounce off of the floor) by teching the floor. You must either be at low or high percent in order for this AT to work. Nothing in between.

Note: At low %, meteor bomb lag cancels allow combos that otherwise aren't possible because you're able to act right out of hitstun. You can also use it at high %s which I'll get into shortly. First hit Fsmash into other moves is possible if you are standing on top of a meteor bomb when timed correctly. Yeah, awesome. The only problem is that meteor bomb lag cancel combos are quite situational and require timing. Especially with non-special moves. A huge benefit with this however is that you can wiff laggy moves as much as you want (especially spin attack), but at the expense of 5% per move. At high %, all you aren't able to do with it at that point are meteor bomb lag cancel combos, because you spend too much time in the tech animation. It can be a pretty good get-away option if you tech roll though. Just try not to miss the tech or telegraph it too much, otherwise you can loose your stock.

Bomb Dribbling ~

Description: Link throws either one of of his custom bombs right at his feet (meteor bombs are more effective though). He can grab the bomb in midair and repeat the process as many times as the bomb's time limit allows, which is how this AT got it's name.

How to perform: Throw a custom bomb at the ground. You can grab the bomb again while it's in midair and repeat the process if you whish. Just remember that with meteor bombs, the bomb can only be grabbed again as long as it isn't too far above Link's head. Grab it before it gets there, or SH after it if necessary.

Note: Since the meteor bomb is always active while it's moving, this means that there is always an active hitbox near or inside of Link as long as it's out of his hand. So technically if you're being rushed down by an opponent, you can Dthrow the meteor bomb and then step back a little while they either run into it (usually while going for a dash grab) or are forced to take action in trying to not get hit, which you can then punish. Even if you don't punish, you've at least managed to stop or slow them from harassing you, making this a handy tool.

I would just like to address a certain issue at this point.
I've updated the OP in the beginning section to include a small list of guides. I had already made a small mention of the fact that AT's should not be used to become a better player as they are no replacement for poor fundamentals, but I would just like to further emphasise this point in light of the general feel that I'm getting from this post.
Please feel free to check out the list of guides in the OP. I will add more as more are made.

I don't recall saying that ATs were everything in my post.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Heyo. I've got a couple of ATs here that you may want to consider.

Meteor Bomb Lag Cancel (needs testing for proper information, as I'd assume that some of the info here is incorrect) ~

Description: The endlag of any move is canceled by the explosion of a meteor bomb.

How to perform: You must either be near enough to the bomb or be holding it so that when timed right, the explosion cancels the lag of any desired move. You also can meteor bomb lag cancel at higher % (at which point you start to bounce off of the floor) by teching the floor. You must either be at low or high percent in order for this AT to work. Nothing in between.

Note: At low %, meteor bomb lag cancels allow combos that otherwise aren't possible because you're able to act right out of hitstun. You can also use it at high %s which I'll get into shortly. First hit Fsmash into other moves is possible if you are standing on top of a meteor bomb when timed correctly. Yeah, awesome. The only problem is that meteor bomb lag cancel combos are quite situational and require timing. Especially with non-special moves. A huge benefit with this however is that you can wiff laggy moves as much as you want (especially spin attack), but at the expense of 5% per move. At high %, all you aren't able to do with it at that point are meteor bomb lag cancel combos, because you spend too much time in the tech animation. It can be a pretty good get-away option if you tech roll though. Just try not to miss the tech or telegraph it too much, otherwise you can loose your stock.

Bomb Dribbling ~

Description: Link throws either one of of his custom bombs right at his feet (meteor bombs are more effective though). He can grab the bomb in midair and repeat the process as many times as the bomb's time limit allows, which is how this AT got it's name.

How to perform: Throw a custom bomb at the ground. You can grab the bomb again while it's in midair and repeat the process if you whish. Just remember that with meteor bombs, the bomb can only be grabbed again as long as it isn't too far above Link's head. Grab it before it gets there, or SH after it if necessary.

Note: Since the meteor bomb is always active while it's moving, this means that there is always an active hitbox near or inside of Link as long as it's out of his hand. So technically if you're being rushed down by an opponent, you can Dthrow the meteor bomb and then step back a little while they either run into it (usually while going for a dash grab) or are forced to take action in trying to not get hit, which you can then punish. Even if you don't punish, you've at least managed to stop or slow them from harassing you, making this a handy tool.


I don't recall saying that ATs were everything in my post.

'Meteor Bomb Lag Cancel' Are you for real? Are you trying to pass this off as your idea? In my thread? It was less than a week ago when I posted this http://smashboards.com/threads/link-social-hes-freaking-link.370194/page-193#post-19132319
and this http://smashboards.com/threads/link-social-hes-freaking-link.370194/page-193#post-19132480
I personally thought it was too obvious to have it's own AT. I mean, these two techs are basically just essential properties of the move. It would be like me mentioning the fact that the normal bomb will explode if you throw it at the ground; it's only noteworthy in comparison. It would fit into a guide, not really an AT list.

I dunno. I'll need to have another look at this later.

 

[DarkDeity15]

'Meteor Bomb Lag Cancel' Are you for real? Are you trying to pass this off as your idea? In my thread? It was less than a week ago when I posted this http://smashboards.com/threads/link-social-hes-freaking-link.370194/page-193#post-19132319
and this http://smashboards.com/threads/link-social-hes-freaking-link.370194/page-193#post-19132480
I personally thought it was too obvious to have it's own AT. I mean, these two techs are basically just essential properties of the move. It would be like me mentioning the fact that the normal bomb will explode if you throw it at the ground; it's only noteworthy in comparison. It would fit into a guide, not really an AT list.

I dunno. I'll need to have another look at this later.

Whoah, chill out man. I remember this being mentioned before. I just thought it deserved to be considered an AT. Hell, change the name if you want. Same with bomb dribbling. There's actually a practical use to the property though, so yeah.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I don't see any mention of you remembering it being mentioned before.

 

[DarkDeity15]

I don't see any mention of you remembering it being mentioned before.

That's because I just decided to type this up one day to save it on my note pad app. No big deal, honest.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Yeah whatever. If it was accidental I'll get over it. In the mean time everyone will be able to once again appreciate just how much of a nut-case I am; just what I needed >_>.
For real though, I'll have a think about it, and if I can think of enough interesting things to say about the two things you mentioned I may end up adding them. Because sometimes what I consider to be obvious isn't so obvious.

 

[Knife8193]

So I've been attempting the Bombslide backthrow fakeout to no success. I've read the guide and it say to "Use the grab button to perform a dash throw, immediately move the joystick so it is facing upwards, and then in the later frames of the dash throw, hit the a-stick backwards.". So first of all, assuming I had default controls for the GameCube controller and turn tap jump off, I would dash in a direction (let's say right), press Z to throw the bomb, wait a few frames until near the end of the dash throw animation, then flick the C-stick to the left? Am I interpreting the inputs correctly? I can't seem to make this work, either I'm doing the wrong inputs or my timing is off.

 

[FSK]

So I've been attempting the Bombslide backthrow fakeout to no success. I've read the guide and it say to "Use the grab button to perform a dash throw, immediately move the joystick so it is facing upwards, and then in the later frames of the dash throw, hit the a-stick backwards.". So first of all, assuming I had default controls for the GameCube controller and turn tap jump off, I would dash in a direction (let's say right), press Z to throw the bomb, wait a few frames until near the end of the dash throw animation, then flick the C-stick to the left? Am I interpreting the inputs correctly? I can't seem to make this work, either I'm doing the wrong inputs or my timing is off.

The c-stick should be set to attack not smash. The input is correctly explained in the OP, you just have to mess around to get the timing.

 

[Knife8193]

I did forget to mention that's what I have C-Stick set to. I will probably need to learn the timing better then.