The Clank rule needs to change

[ConeZ]

All I know is this would affect 0% of Metaknight's matchups, so I am completely neutral!

 

[pooch182]

Speaking of transcendence, when is Screw Attack gonna get some love? It being clankable is really ****ing stupid.

 

[N00B64]

Only issue I have with changing this is projectile clanking and swords. If we could have separate senarios for clanking programing then yeah change physicalVSphysical clanking ro 4%, but we don't have that sort of option. I'd say maybe Change it to 6% as long as you could still break projectiles with an well timed air move.

 

[tasteless gentleman]

I think we need more unclankable moves that just eat through other moves from heavy characters (come on they are already at a disadvantage)

And transendent moves suck lol

 

[Bazkip]

I think we need more unclankable moves that just eat through other moves from heavy characters (come on they are already at a disadvantage)

And transendent moves suck lol

You want more transcendent moves but you say transcendent moves suck?

 

[mimgrim]

You want more transcendent moves but you say transcendent moves suck?

Transcendent moves don't eat through other moves.

He's talking about rebounding moves which cannot be clanked out but do clank out all other moves (that aren't transcendent) no matter what.

Transcendent moves don't clank period and only register a hit when they meet a hurtbox.

 

[Bazkip]

Transcendent moves don't eat through other moves.

He's talking about rebounding moves which cannot be clanked out but do clank out all other moves (that aren't transcendent) no matter what.

Transcendent moves don't clank period and only register a hit when they meet a hurtbox.

we need more unclankable moves

Transcendent = unclankable

Unless he said the wrong thing, he's talking about transcendent priority.

 

[mimgrim]

He meant moves that can't be beaten out but beat out other moves, as you can tell by the rest of the sentence.

 

[DMG]

Well technically, unclankable could be different from transcendent. Transcendent = no clank or attempted clank. Unclankable could = attempted clanks but the move always overpowers (Mario Jabs a Ganon Fsmash, minor clank animation looks like it plays (clank bubbles for example), Mario gets beaten out).

But that's like the same thing almost

 

[Binary Clone]

I don't think that actually exists, though, is the thing. Beating out another hitbox is just based on damage.

 

[DMG]

Well the person was talking about modifying attacks for heavy chars. That could imply new rules / mechanics

 

[AuraMaudeGone]

I believe he's referring to move invincibility at this point.

 

[mimgrim]

I don't think that actually exists, though, is the thing. Beating out another hitbox is just based on damage.

I actually don't know if it even exists in Project M either to be perfectly honest.

Only Smash game where I'm pretty sure that type of attack is in is Smash 4 on Palutena's tilts I believe.

 

[Player -0]

There are definitely moves in P:M that clank and still continue/hit person. I can't think of one right now though.

Palutena's shield attacks (Bair/Dash Attack) have unique properties. I believe her tilts are just disjointed (might be transcendent, idk).

 

[tasteless gentleman]

He meant moves that can't be beaten out but beat out other moves, as you can tell by the rest of the sentence.

Not sure who to quote or reply to but take bowsers dash attack as an example of what i want and bowsers flames as what i dont want.

Flames dont hit any projectiles which is annoying and suck.
Dash attack has armour and doesnt clank with any attacks but more like plows through them.

 

[JOE!]

"Plow through" is a property of damage usually.

Say a move does 15%. It will straight up negate any moves that deal 0-7%, clank with any moves that deal 8-23%, and be beat by moves that deal 24%+. Only a handful of moves in the game deal more than 20% let alone 24% in a single hit, so this move would be able to clank with 95% of all grounded moves. VS an aerial, it wouldn't clank anyways but rather trade seeing as aerials do not clank... but if the move has Armor to "win" trades, then suddenly the move has great priority as few things can stop it unless you purposefully clank with a ground move at the right time.

 

[tasteless gentleman]

"Plow through" is a property of damage usually.

Say a move does 15%. It will straight up negate any moves that deal 0-7%, clank with any moves that deal 8-23%, and be beat by moves that deal 24%+. Only a handful of moves in the game deal more than 20% let alone 24% in a single hit, so this move would be able to clank with 95% of all grounded moves. VS an aerial, it wouldn't clank anyways but rather trade seeing as aerials do not clank... but if the move has Armor to "win" trades, then suddenly the move has great priority as few things can stop it unless you purposefully clank with a ground move at the right time.

No the move has special properties and DOES NOT CLANK

 

[Bazkip]

No the move has special properties and DOES NOT CLANK

That's transcendent priority. You're talking about transcendent priority. The first hit of Bowser's dash attack is transcendent.

I sound like a broken record lol

 

[tasteless gentleman]

...Then we need more transcendent physical attacks with armour on them...

 

[Binary Clone]

...Then we need more transcendent physical attacks with armour on them...

Hooow about no.

I feel like most people agree that tacking armor onto heavies is more of a band-aid than anything, and more of that isn't going to be fun to play against or do enough of substance to improve the characters on the whole.

 

[standardtoaster]

"Transcendent" is such an unclear term. I don't know who came up with it but it should really only be "can clank" or "cannot clank". Would drastically reduce confusion as seen here

 

[DMG]

Bro that move is so good it transcends time and space

^^^ What the person thought of when coming up with the term

 

[tasteless gentleman]

Hooow about no.

I feel like most people agree that tacking armor onto heavies is more of a band-aid than anything, and more of that isn't going to be fun to play against or do enough of substance to improve the characters on the whole.

feel free to offer up some input on how to fix the fat fatties then.

 

[PMS | LEVEL 100 MAGIKARP]

Reducing the "clank margin" would be a nerf to luigi.

Whoever said that using tornado to clank was a "situational usage" might be correct but

that situation is more often than not using tornado to get in on a fair-walling or dtilting marth and anticipating the clank and following up with a quick jab

removing this option would just emphasize the non-committal and campy luigi style

watch how abate used clanks in his sets with axe and s2j

 

[trash?]

admittedly, I sort of assumed priority was something the PMDT didn't hold much control over, because last I recalled that's why metaknight still has transcendent priority on everything but his dash attack

or, uh, "unclankable", or whatever. there's a difference? I thought unclankable was literally just the more newbie-friendly term for transcendent

 

[Bazkip]

admittedly, I sort of assumed priority was something the PMDT didn't hold much control over, because last I recalled that's why metaknight still has transcendent priority on everything but his dash attack

or, uh, "unclankable", or whatever. there's a difference? I thought unclankable was literally just the more newbie-friendly term for transcendent

Normally it can be changed, since it's probably just a true/false value, but apparently MK's stuff is hard coded so he specifically can't be changed.

And yeah there's no difference. There's no real reason for the term transcendent to exist since unclankable is much clearer.

 

[tasteless gentleman]

so what happens when a clankable attack meets a transendent attack?

 

[CORY]

what happens when you try to hit falco's laser out of the sky?

 

[tasteless gentleman]

right but i dont think that is the case when a transendent dash attack meets an actual non disjointed hitbox.

 

[CORY]

they don't clank, so the transcendent hitbox will go through, as well as the normal hitbox. at that point, it's all about lining up hitboxes with hurtboxes.

to be open: i don't know anything about bowser's hitboxes and hurtboxes on his dash attack, so i have no idea how those line up in relation to stuff, nor the armor frames on it.

 

[Bazkip]

Generally you end up with a trade but depending on how the hitboxes and hurtboxes overlap only one or possibly even nobody will get hit.

The first hit of Bowser's dash attack ends up trading with other attacks, but since it has light armour it "wins" trades if the armour isn't beaten out.

 

[tasteless gentleman]

so transendent moves are < nontransendent moves?

 

[Bazkip]

so transendent moves are < nontransendent moves?

It's only worse on aerial moves, since that means you can't use that attack to clank with projectiles. With grounded moves, it can be good or bad depending on the situation.

 

[shairn]

Speaking of clanking: What's up with Roy fsmash clanking, then continuing on to ruin your day? Seems like the hitbox never goes away.

 

[Bazkip]

Speaking of clanking: What's up with Roy fsmash clanking, then continuing on to ruin your day? Seems like the hitbox never goes away.

Cause the sweetspot deals 20% so if you hit it with an attack that deals 11% or less then your attack loses.

 

[DMG]

Also blah blah Sweetspot priority over weaker hitboxes or some change idk

Edit: I still think my idea of changing frame advantage on clanks to favor the stronger move is a good one worth exploring. PMBR / PMDT / Rivals of Aether plz