The Chat Waker - Toon Link social

[LotadAlittle]

Also, is dsmash practically useless now with the fsmash buff? fsmash just feels so much better in almost every aspect now, and it's huge too.

Yeah, it was never all that good to begin with lol. Use it as a mixup, and a mixup only.

 

[Fluorescent]

Man. I haven't played Toon in a LONG time. Especially since school kept me away from Smash.
It's Spring Break now though! And playing Toon again (And watching some Smash 4 VODS... and Brawl VODS, just for fun), I just realized how OUTDATED my Toon is.
I'm still acting like Boomerangs and Bombs deal substantial damage from far away. i.e., I'm still playing Brawl Toon in Smash 4.

Which does not work out at all, since our projectiles do ~2/3 - 1/2 the damage they did in Brawl.
I'm losing against some really silly things on For Glory because my play isn't really optimal. Sigh.
Watching my replays again, I think I'm just having trouble online because when the opponent sneaks into my boomerang -> (___) or bomb -> (____) zone, I can't react quickly enough to confirm a hit. Lag is a problem, but hey, my opponent is experiencing the same lag, and I feel like TOON SHOULD BE THE ONE at an advantage with his projectiles and all.

I hope it's just me being temporarily scrubby after not playing Smash for so long.

sorry, rant ends here. Self-reflecting, I guess.

Edit: I just realized that the projectile comboing aspect of Smash 4 Toon is kind of the replacement for Brawl nair/bair/zair.
Wow, I'm slow.
But that blows my mind. I've never thought of it that way.

Also, is dsmash practically useless now with the fsmash buff? fsmash just feels so much better in almost every aspect now, and it's huge too.

I wasn't much of a competitive brawl player as I only got into the competitive scene through Sm4sh but I do remember his projectiles still doing some good damage from far away.

If you mean by sneaking that they're getting hit by your projectiles, try to practice your button presses. It's true that lags makes it harder to input any moves but once you see your opponent get hit by that boomerang or bomb it should be an easy conversion into N-air, Z-air, or B-air, etc.

If you haven't known yet, learn to JC with Tink. It basically he gives him more free movement and more faster, easier follow-ups.

About the D-smash thing. The only difference between them is that F-Smash can rack up more damage and hits harder but only hits in front of Tink. D-smash can deal alright damage and cover both in front of Tink and backwards of Tink if timed right, it also comes out faster than F-smash by a few a frames. Both moves have great amount of endlag so don't expect to get away if you miss. If you feel more confident however in your opponent's option, go for the F-smash read as you'll benefit more from it.

Back then, there use to be some jank with D-Smash where it could send the opponent flying behind Tink to the lower corner of the blast zones on the first hit of Dsmash where it would fail to connect with the 2nd hit on some characters. This use to be a viable tech imo on Little Mac as he wouldn't be able to recover from this. (that and D-smash use to have more KBG back then) ahh the days..

 

[Halfy]

The Dsmash/Fsmash situation is pretty simple, actually

Fsmash is the same risk, but higher reward. Coupled with the fact that you can Fsmash out of a foxtrot...

Ive seen some players use dsmash OoS as a mixup at lower percents, but fsmash would probably work just as well, if not better

 

[LotadAlittle]

The Dsmash/Fsmash situation is pretty simple, actually

Fsmash is the same risk, but higher reward. Coupled with the fact that you can Fsmash out of a foxtrot...

Ive seen some players use dsmash OoS as a mixup at lower percents, but fsmash would probably work just as well, if not better

I would say that f smash is even lower risk. It has a much larger hitbox and less end lag, the only reason to use d smash over f smash is because it's 6 frames faster, avoid staling the superior option, or, like I said, a mixup.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I almost forgot to tell you guys, I wrote a thread recently on frame syncing that you might find interesting. http://smashboards.com/threads/frame-syncing.434603/

 

[The Merc]

Sup Toonys, long time no sea.

 

[LotadAlittle]

Sup Toonys, long time no sea.

Yeah, so long that I don't think I even know you, and I've been here since like may last year lol. Hi, and welcome back.

 

[The Merc]

Yeah, so long that I don't think I even know you, and I've been here since like may last year lol. Hi, and welcome back.

Well, that might be cause I haven't visited this place in like a year lol

Though I think there would be a few people here who still know me

@Artemis

 

[LotadAlittle]

Well, that might be cause I haven't visited this place in like a year lol

Though I think there would be a few people here who still know me

@Artemis

Yeah, I assumed so, I definitely didn't recognise you.
Unfortunately, Arty has been inactive for quite a while now, so I doubt you'll get a reply, or at least not any time soon.

 

[The Merc]

That's fine

Though I did have reason for coming here

I was wondering if someone could tell me what exactly was nerfed of Toon Link from Brawl to Sm4sh?

Cause there are some obvious like Dair not Bouncing etc.

But there are some nerfs to him that aren't actually there. Like I used to think his air mobility got nerfed, but it turns out i has been changed at all

So, what did change?

 

[LotadAlittle]

That's fine

Though I did have reason for coming here

I was wondering if someone could tell me what exactly was nerfed of Toon Link from Brawl to Sm4sh?

Cause there are some obvious like Dair not Bouncing etc.

But there are some nerfs to him that aren't actually there. Like I used to think his air mobility got nerfed, but it turns out i has been changed at all

So, what did change?

I didn't play brawl competitively... by which I mean I played against my brother using exclusively dair and uair, but I know of a few things. So iirc, tink's main combo tools in brawl were his zair, bair and nair; in this game, bair was changed the most out of the 3 (no more sh double bair, and it only just auto cancels out of sh), and nair is harder to get the double hit. You won't be using these as your primary combo tools anymore, your bnb combos are mostly off bombs and sweet rang. I'm not sure if it was in brawl, nor how prevalent it was, if it was in, but you'll want to jc throw all your grounded bombs. Doing this negates lag from throwing them and allows you to follow up with pretty much whatever you want.

There are some other small things, such as the speed and acceleration of up b, but those are the main things I know of. Don't take everything I said for fact though, I would ask someone like foxy if you want more reliable answers.

 

[The Merc]

I didn't play brawl competitively... by which I mean I played against my brother using exclusively dair and uair, but I know of a few things. So iirc, tink's main combo tools in brawl were his zair, bair and nair; in this game, bair was changed the most out of the 3 (no more sh double bair, and it only just auto cancels out of sh), and nair is harder to get the double hit. You won't be using these as your primary combo tools anymore, your bnb combos are mostly off bombs and sweet rang. I'm not sure if it was in brawl, nor how prevalent it was, if it was in, but you'll want to jc throw all your grounded bombs. Doing this negates lag from throwing them and allows you to follow up with pretty much whatever you want.

There are some other small things, such as the speed and acceleration of up b, but those are the main things I know of. Don't take everything I said for fact though, I would ask someone like foxy if you want more reliable answers.

Awesome. Thanks for the notes.

Yeah, I might ask Fox if i have the chance

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Toon's character attributes got generally nerfed coming from Brawl to smash 4, but because of the mechanics of the game itself, he ended up doing better overall in the new meta.

Off the top of my head:
Bair got a huge speed reduction as it used to combo into itself, be used twice in a SH, and have very little landing lag. It got a horizontal range buff but a vertical range nerf.
Nair got a significant range reduction (it used to be one of his primary spacing tools), it got an overall speed nerf (you used to be able to DJ out of a SH Nair), and it used to be a kill option.
Dair lost it's pogo and can no long reliably be used for recovery as a Dair recovery stall (which used to be one of my personal favourite things to do).
Zair got more range but it also received end-lag where previously there was none, significantly reducing it's use as a spacing tool overall. Also Zair while holding a Bomb now gives you airdodge landing lag, making that useless too.
You used to be able to Z-drop bombs without Zair coming out without needing to do anything special, and it used to be easier to Z-drop them on the ground without having them explode.
You used to be able to F-smash while holding a Bomb.
Many of his attacks got a reduced damage output including his projectiles.
Bombs got a buff of not hurting you when the explosion is caused by an enemy hurtbox, but they took away the invincibomb (airdodging then z-dropping the bomb immediately after while keeping the airdodge) which used to be one of the most significant AT's Toon had.
Arrows can no longer be quickdrawn (which was an AT that allowed you to cut out all of the startup lag when used just before landing).
The vertical height gained by his DJ and his Aerial Up-B was significantly reduced.
Dash attack and D-smash used to have low knockback angles that set up for gimps, and now their angles don't really do much.
Some notable buffs were given to the speed of his ground movement, the length of the horizontal Tether range, U-smash having a late hitbox that can still kill, significantly faster rolls, significantly reduced boomerang catch-lag, F-smash that actually connects reliably, overall faster U-tilt, overall faster grabs and a kill-throw.
The rest of the significant buffs came indirectly from the game itself due to e.g. the ledge mechanics, the increased amount of hitstun, and the lack of Brawl Meta Knight.

 

[The Merc]

Awesome. Just wanted to make sure that I didn't say anything about Toon Link's nerfs and it was wrong. Thanks

 

[Green Zelda]

Hey guys! Would it be alright if I made a thread listing the % of which all 58 characters are sent into the tumble animation (fall flat on the floor) by zair? This would help land zair > arrow jab locks (which aren't super reliable, but still work sometimes.) Or is this info already know/not needed/doesn't warrant a thread? Thanks!

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Hey guys! Would it be alright if I made a thread listing the % of which all 58 characters are sent into the tumble animation (fall flat on the floor) by zair? This would help land zair > arrow jab locks (which aren't super reliable, but still work sometimes.) Or is this info already know/not needed/doesn't warrant a thread? Thanks!

Normally this sort of thing would go in the metagame thread. There's actually some discussion about it here (read further down as well) http://smashboards.com/threads/trea...h-lab-and-at-list.380910/page-8#post-20511283
The percents for some characters was found but not all of them.

 

[Green Zelda]

The percents for some characters was found but not all of them.

I read the discussion (the stuff about usmash being better or worse was interesting, never considered it!), and it looks like he only tested Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Ike, Ganon, Pikachu, Zamus, and Roy. Could I finish the list on the same thread?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I read the discussion (the stuff about usmash being better or worse was interesting, never considered it!), and it looks like he only tested Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Ike, Ganon, Pikachu, Zamus, and Roy. Could I finish the list on the same thread?

Of course. Feel free to do so.

 

[Green Zelda]

Does anyone know why and die to our fair earlier than our (sweetspot) uair, yet dies to 's fair at 99% (with no di) and his uair at 98%? I came across this in training mode, while looking for the kill percents of our aerials on those 3 (which I will post in the metagame thread later today, and then the back throw kill %'s tonight/this weekend)

EDIT: It's up, check here: http://smashboards.com/threads/trea...ement-research-lab-and-at-list.380910/page-10

 

[The Merc]

Um....

What % were Mario and Bowser at?

Cause the only thing that I can think of is that the Weight more than Jiggly, so that's why the die later to Uair

 

[Green Zelda]

Um....

What % were Mario and Bowser at?

Cause the only thing that I can think of is that the Weight more than Jiggly, so that's why the die later to Uair

Mario died to fair at 118% with no di from the center of fd and uair at 123% with no di.
Bowser died to fair at 137% with no di from the center of fd and uair at 140% with no di.
It probably has something to do with gravity or weight or something. (I'm talking about sweetspot uair, btw)

 

[The Merc]

Yeah, I was thinking gravity might be having the overall effect on it. Especially since falling speed no longer effects vertical kills

 

[LotadAlittle]

Yeah, I was thinking gravity might be having the overall effect on it. Especially since falling speed no longer effects vertical kills

Oh, really? I thought fast fallers died earlier horizontally because their fall speed essentially worked as negative DI, then earlier at the top, because it acts like positive DI, and it was the opposite for floaties. Is there a thread somewhere that has data to prove that?

 

[The Merc]

I was talking more in regards to vertical kills. Though I can't remember where i read it (so don't trust my word on it) but I remember reading that in Brawl and Sm4sh, falling speed doesn't effect vertical survivability, unlike in Melee (and possible 64) where it did.

Horizontally though, what you said would make sense.

 

[LotadAlittle]

I was talking more in regards to vertical kills. Though I can't remember where i read it (so don't trust my word on it) but I remember reading that in Brawl and Sm4sh, falling speed doesn't effect vertical survivability, unlike in Melee (and possible 64) where it did.

Horizontally though, what you said would make sense.

Yeah, I would look into it... but I'm lazy and someone probably beat me to it lol.

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

Mains:.
Secondaries:


Like:Zelda, Pokemon, Toon Link, and nice communities

Dislike: , bad communities, bad memes, Metroid.

Fun Facts: I could chat online for hours with anybody that I take a liking too, I often struggle making myself study, and I will probably be one of the nicest people on the Internet that you'll meet

 

[TsarofToon]

Username: alphamaster0800 or Deranl Rimaris.
Mains: Toon Link, Mario, Ike, Kirby, and Diddy Kong
Secondaries: Fox (Kinda), Yoshi, Marth, Villager, Luigi, and Lucas
Likes: Smash, Styling, Disrespect, video games, Smash tournaments, and random PC games
Dislikes: Corrin. Also Wario for being one of the only characters in this game I cant use.

So... Yeah. I try and avoid TL right now, cause I'm learning other characters, but he is still easily my best character. I use the Gold Rimmed hat Toon Link, cause It's the best one. Hope to learn more about the kid and get even better at him!

-TsarofToon

(P.S How do I get those pictures of the characters head to appear rather than just the names?)

 

[Green Zelda]

(P.S How do I get those pictures of the characters head to appear rather than just the names?)

Click on the colorless "" at the top of the text box, and then click "Smash 3DS/Wii U"!

 

[Deleted member]

Hi, peoples

 

[The Merc]

Hi peoples

Hiiiiiii. I'm surprised you remember me tbh lol, I hardly even remember this site LOL. I just only in came to here for Discord thing. But yeah like of a nice thing and stuff. Sup?

Of course i do.How could i forget such things such as international pizza day on Valentines day?
Ah Discord. I was introduced to that once. Don't really use it thought.

Nothing much. Getting Fates soon

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

Hi peoples

Hiiiiiii. I'm surprised you remember me tbh lol, I hardly even remember this site LOL. I just only in came to here for Discord thing. But yeah like of a nice thing and stuff. Sup?

I'm the complete opposite. I love this site so much. Find myself checking it everyday. It's very informative and interesting.

 

[Deleted member]

Of course i do.How could i forget such things such as international pizza day on Valentines day?

International Pizza Day on Valentine's Day?

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

International Pizza Day on Valentine's Day? Lol that's so random, where did that come from?

It's a sacred tradition. Been around since Pizza became memeable.

 

[Deleted member]

This is making me hungry for pizza, more specifically deep dish pizza. Pizza is better than Valentine's Day candy and is better than the holiday in general lol, International Pizza Day really should take its place.

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

This is making me hungry for pizza, more specifically deep dish pizza. Pizza is better than Valentine's Day candy and is better than the holiday in general lol, International Pizza Day really should take its place.

I mean, Valentine's Day is technically the worst holiday in the year (Made for companies to earn money off gifts, single people made to feel like sh**). And Pizza is great.
Therefore by my masterful logic, Food is better and more deserving of a day than relationships.
Edit:I just realised how well my picture fits with the post XD

 

[The Merc]

International Pizza Day on Valentine's Day? Lol that's so random, where did that come from?

You don't remember it?

I don't remember how it came about, but we were talking about something and I think it was on Valentines day and then someone brought up Pizza and then International Pizza day came into existence

It's a sacred tradition. Been around since Pizza became memeable.

So since TMNT?

This is making me hungry for pizza, more specifically deep dish pizza. Pizza is better than Valentine's Day candy and is better than the holiday in general lol, International Pizza Day really should take its place.

Yes. Just yes so much

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

You don't remember it?
So since TMNT?

Probably.

 

[TsarofToon]

Man, this Toon Link tech I'm learning for all this pizza talk is amazing. EVO here I come. XD

 

[Eddie The Pacifist]

Man, this Toon Link tech I'm learning for all this pizza talk is amazing. EVO here I come. XD

Toon Links 2nd Custom for his Boomerang is actually a pizza shaped and coloured one that damages the opponent in a multi-hit attack. It has longer range but it needs all hits to connect to deal 8 and it deals less knockback. There is tech for it but it's pretty basic, like Robin's ArcThunder, you can hit them with a smash attack? I believe they took the inspiration from I'm just kidding, that'd be hilarious though. I'm hoping I managed to fool you.

 

[The Merc]

Patch 1.1.6 incoming

Toon Link buffs?