The CEO 2018 Discussion thread

[MarioManTAW]

MkLeo 3-1 Tweek to win CEO 2018!

 

[Iridium]

Not sure I have ever seen a crowd that looked so dead. The Twitch chat was switching sides so much this tourney, favoring whoever did not use Bayo.

Anyway, congrats to Leo on this win! He is guaranteed #1 on the PGR now at this point. Why some people said Tweek was #1 will never be explained.

 

[Nu~]

Y E S

MKLEO EARNING HIS CROWN

 

[Jaguar360]

Top 64 results:

https://smash.gg/tournament/ceo-201...r-smash-bros-for-wii-u/brackets/276723/599782
CEO 2018 (679 entrants) (Florida)
1. MKLeo ,
2. Tweek ,
3. Cosmos
4. Captain Zack
5. Raito
5. Dabuz
7. Abadango ,
7. falln
9. Marss
9. Salem
9. Captain L
9. Vinnie
13. Wrath
13. Rideae
13. Elegant
13. Fatality
17. Karna
17. Light
17. Nairo
17. tyroy
17. Samsora
17. Sonido
17. Mr. R
17. Larry Lurr
25. MVD
25. ANTi
25. Mistake
25. dyr ,
25. Rival
25. Salt One
25. Ac
25. Shuton
33. TM_Seraph
33. Sharpyzard
33. Jayy
33. Sinji
33. ScAtt
33. Charlie
33. Ozone
33. Pugwest
33. 8BitMan
33. Tatuman
33. Manny
33. JarrodKB
33. D2da
33. ESAM
33. Kameme
33. Myran
49. Rags ,
49. SuperGirlKels
49. Goblin
49. Master Raven
49. McBenedict
49. Blank
49. PK Kid
49. K9sbruce
49. Diabeo
49. Deluxemenu
49. NovaPixl
49. Dakpo ,
49. Evilgoku
49. ewok
49. Eon
49. komorikiri ,,

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Top 64 results:

https://smash.gg/tournament/ceo-201...r-smash-bros-for-wii-u/brackets/276723/599782
CEO 2018 (679 entrants) (Florida)
1. MKLeo ,
2. Tweek ,
3. Cosmos
4. Captain Zack
5. Raito
5. Dabuz
7. Abadango ,
7. falln
9. Marss
9. Salem
9. Captain L
9. Vinnie
13. Wrath
13. Rideae
13. Elegant
13. Fatality
17. Karna
17. Light
17. Nairo
17. tyroy
17. Samsora
17. Sonido
17. Mr. R
17. Larry Lurr
25. MVD
25. ANTi ,,
25. Mistake
25. dyr ,
25. Rival
25. Salt One
25. Ac
25. Shuton
33. TM_Seraph
33. Sharpyzard
33. Jayy
33. Sinji
33. ScAtt
33. Charlie
33. Ozone
33. Pugwest
33. 8BitMan
33. Tatuman
33. Manny
33. JarrodKB
33. D2da
33. ESAM
33. Kameme
33. Myran
49. Rags ,
49. SuperGirlKels
49. Goblin
49. Master Raven
49. McBenedict
49. Blank
49. PK Kid
49. K9sbruce
49. Diabeo
49. Deluxemenu
49. NovaPixl
49. Dakpo ,
49. Evilgoku
49. ewok
49. Eon
49. komorikiri ,,

Is Goblin THE GoblinMan? Cause' Smash Wiki lists Goblin as a .

 

[Iridium]

Top 64 results:

https://smash.gg/tournament/ceo-201...r-smash-bros-for-wii-u/brackets/276723/599782
CEO 2018 (679 entrants) (Florida)
1. MKLeo ,
2. Tweek ,
3. Cosmos
4. Captain Zack
5. Raito
5. Dabuz
7. Abadango ,
7. falln
9. Marss
9. Salem
9. Captain L
9. Vinnie
13. Wrath
13. Rideae
13. Elegant
13. Fatality
17. Karna
17. Light
17. Nairo
17. tyroy
17. Samsora
17. Sonido
17. Mr. R
17. Larry Lurr
25. MVD
25. ANTi ,,
25. Mistake
25. dyr ,
25. Rival
25. Salt One
25. Ac
25. Shuton
33. TM_Seraph
33. Sharpyzard
33. Jayy
33. Sinji
33. ScAtt
33. Charlie
33. Ozone
33. Pugwest
33. 8BitMan
33. Tatuman
33. Manny
33. JarrodKB
33. D2da
33. ESAM
33. Kameme
33. Myran
49. Rags ,
49. SuperGirlKels
49. Goblin
49. Master Raven
49. McBenedict
49. Blank
49. PK Kid
49. K9sbruce
49. Diabeo
49. Deluxemenu
49. NovaPixl
49. Dakpo ,
49. Evilgoku
49. ewok
49. Eon
49. komorikiri ,,

Did ANTi win any games with ZSS? Did Evilgoku ever win a game with Ganondorf, and same with Rival's CF? And Dakpo's Diddy Kong? Just curious.

 

[The_Bookworm]

CEO 2018 (679 Entrants) (A+ Tier)

1st: MKLeo
2nd: Tweek
3rd: Cosmos
4th: Captain Zack
5th: Dabuz
5th: Raito
7th: falln
7th: Abadango
9th: Vinnie
9th: Salem
9th: Marss
9th: Captain L
13th: Fatality
13th: Elegant
13th: Rideae
13th: Wrath
17th: Sonido
17th: Mr. R
17th: Karna
17th: Light
17th: Samsora
17th: tyroy
17th: Nairo
17th: Larry Lurr
25th: Rival
25th: Shuton
25th: Salt One
25th: Mistake
25th: MVD
25th: ANTi
25th: dyr
25th: AC

Spoiler: Notable Players out Earlier

33rd: ESAM
33rd: Manny
33rd: Charlie
33rd: Kameme
33rd: ScAtt
33rd: 8BitMan
33rd: Myran
33rd: Ozone
33rd: Jayy
33rd: Sinji
33rd: Pugwest
33rd: Sharpyzard
49th: komorikiri
49th: K9sbruce
49th: Eon
49th: Rags
49th: Blank
49th: SuperGirlKels
49th: NovaPiXL
49th: Deluxemenu
49th: Dakpo
65th: NAKAT
65th: MuteAce
65th: Kiki
65th: Ryo
65th: You3
65th: Mekos
65th: Rango
65th: Black Yoshi
65th: Light the Lantern
65th: Cagt
65th: Xaltis
65th: Miloni
65th: Wonderbread
97th: Dath
97th: Zephr
129th: Waldo
129th: Zaki
129th: pu55yk1ng
129th: Sol
193rd: Virum

Sumabato 26 is also added into the PGR chart yesterday. It is a C tier event with 193 entrants.

1st: Masashi
2nd: Yuzu
3rd: Towa
4th: Saboten
5th: Oisiitofu
5th: DIO
7th: Shogun
7th: Fuji
9th: Etsuji
9th: Mangalitza
9th: Ako
9th: HIKARU

 

[Jaguar360]

Is Goblin THE GoblinMan? Cause' Smash Wiki lists Goblin as a .

Goblin is Goblinman for sure in this case.

Did ANTi win any games with ZSS? Did Evilgoku ever win a game with Ganondorf, and same with Rival's CF? And Dakpo's Diddy Kong? Just curious.

Misremembered the ScAtt set, ANTi just went ZSS game 3 and won his game with Mario in that. EvilGoku co-mains Ganondorf with Kirby and was never on stream, so I have to at least assume that he did for now. Rival secondaries Falcon, and I figured he'd at least use it vs Manny and Xaltis considering the matchups, though from Manny's Twitter it does seem that Rival went Ryu vs him, no sign on Xaltis. I'll remove Falcon for now. Dakpo's another case of no streamed matches, and he almost always makes use of those 3 characters each time, so I have to assume that all 3 were used to some degree.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Goblin is Goblinman for sure in this case.


Misremembered the ScAtt set, ANTi just went ZSS game 3 and won his game with Mario in that. EvilGoku co-mains Ganondorf with Kirby and was never on stream, so I have to at least assume that he did for now. Rival secondaries Falcon, and I figured he'd at least use it vs Manny and Xaltis considering the matchups, though from Manny's Twitter it does seem that Rival went Ryu vs him, no sign on Xaltis. I'll remove Falcon for now. Dakpo's another case of no streamed matches, and he almost always makes use of those 3 characters each time, so I have to assume that all 3 were used to some degree.

Then the wiki lists him wrong, thanks.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Tweek has probably the most insane loser's run of the year. After getting upsetted by Captain L in winner's, he went on a rampage.

He beat Shuton, Mr. R, Fatality, Vinnie, and falln with . (I might be wrong about him using Bayo against Shuton, but the others I'm certain)
He beat Dabuz, Captain Zack, and Cosmos with . (All of them are 3-0 victories and at top 8)
Finally, he took the first set of grand finals against MKLeo, with solo .


This is tied with Mistake's Genesis 5 run with the most amount of PGR'ed wins in a single event.

 

[Iridium]

Tweek has probably the most insane loser's run of the year. After getting upsetted by Captain L in winner's, he went on a rampage.

He beat Shuton, Mr. R, Fatality, Vinnie, and falln with . (I might be wrong about him using Bayo against Shuton, but the others I'm certain)
He beat Dabuz, Captain Zack, and Cosmos with . (All of them are 3-0 victories and at top 8)
Finally, he took the first set of grand finals against MKLeo, with solo .


This is tied with Mistake's Genesis 5 run with the most amount of PGR'ed wins in a single event.

Tweek did tweet about beating Shuton in the last game with Bayo, so it counts.

 

[The_Bookworm]

Tweek did tweet about beating Shuton in the last game with Bayo, so it counts.

So I am semi-correct.

 

[Heracr055]

Why some people said Tweek was #1 will never be explained.

Um...because Tweek has been on a rampage ever since bringing out his Bayonetta? He has been placing very well before then with Cloud, and the switch has allowed him to branch out his options and take majors frequently as of late.

 

[Minordeth]

Leo/Tweek was a good storyline. Tweek presumably wanted to avoid Cloud dittos and Marth/Bayo, so he bet his DK against Leo’s adaptation. It paid off for the reset, but then Leo remembered how to beat DK, and set Tweek up for Bayo dittos and the inevitable Marth.

I imagine he studied Salem’s takedown of the Leo Marth, but instead of a whole set, he had one game to play it out.

I’d be interested to see what would have happened had Leo pulled out MK for the DK, or if Tweek had just tried the Cloud. But whatevs.

 

[Yonder]

Bayo is a sad case. Probably the most hated character in smash history now (much more than Brawl MK). If Ultimate doesn't kill Smash 4, I'm pretty certain Bayo will cause the slow decay of it.

#balancingmatters

 

[Ordeaux26]

ayo is a sad case. Probably the most hated character in smash history now (much more than Brawl MK). If Ultimate doesn't kill Smash 4, I'm pretty certain Bayo will cause the slow decay of it.

its how it goes, unfortunately, people will hate on something no matter what melee isn't any better (aka Jigglypuff) if Bayonetta gets nerfed people will just move on to the next character

 

[Frihetsanka]

It's interesting to see how many top level players seem to benefit from Bayonetta. Even Tweek, who was an amazing player with Cloud, went from #5 to #2 (though with ZeRo dropping, it's more like from #5 to #3, I suppose, since ZeRo likely would have been #1 still). I wonder what would have happened if, say, Nairo, Dabuz, or Larry Lurr had picked up Bayonetta as well? What if Ally or ANTi had done it, would they be top 10 players still? I suppose we'll never know.

its how it goes, unfortunately, people will hate on something no matter what melee isn't any better (aka Jigglypuff) if Bayonetta gets nerfed people will just move on to the next character

Serious question: Are people in Project M hating on Meta Knight nearly as much as people in Smash 4 are hating on Bayonetta? I think some characters are likely to be more hated than others. If Bayonetta were nerfed and Cloud or Rosalina & Luma or someone ended up as the new #1 then I think the vitriol would be much less than with Bayonetta.

 

[Ordeaux26]

Serious question: Are people in Project M hating on Meta Knight nearly as much as people in Smash 4 are hating on Bayonetta? I think some characters are likely to be more hated than others. If Bayonetta were nerfed and Cloud or Rosalina & Luma or someone ended up as the new #1 then I think the vitriol would be much less than with Bayonetta.

fair point but we don't know if that would be the case

and also it is not always the best character in the game that people hate on

 

[MercuryPenny]

maybe other communities aren't filled to the brim with complaining because they're considerably more mature, competitive, and passionate than us.

just a thought

 

[Heracr055]

The biggest reason that Bayonetta is the most hated character is because there is a bigger base to hate her. The introduction of For Glory in Smash 4 made this game more accessible than any previous title. This likely drew in many For Glory warriors and casuals into the competitive scene. The players drawn from this source are less likely to think and overcome when dealing with Bayonetta, and choose to create an outcry of hatred and ban calls towards her.

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Bayo can ladder combo you to death and in some cases horizontally carry you as well. Not to mention unlike Brawl MK, she has a bat within that was showcased to get her out of some combos during stream and Witch Time which allows for kills. She also invalidates nearly the entire roster in the game as well (when even Top Tiers struggle to beat her you know something is up). Is she more powerful than pre-patch sheik or Diddy Kong? IDK. The hate may just stem from the ladder combos / horizontal combos along with the fact Smash 4 is two stocks.

The Smash 4 scene is ALSO MUCH larger than the brawl scene.
I believe the hate would be just as great for Brawl MK and Icies if the scene was as large as Smash 4 and had For-Glory as well. Bayo in Smash 4 is pretty much a character Sakurai made that could do it ALL and well at that. (Combos, Projectiles, Edge-guarding, Amazing Recovery, Burst Options, Ladder Combos). Bayo power level compared to the cast (except Cloud) is extremely high especially since they nerfed the Top Tiers such as Sheik, ZSS, Sonic, Diddy, Meta Knght, Luigi (the last 2 being former top tiers).

I think the problem is mainly that a crap ton of characters in Smash 4 are pathetically average or bad (while nerfing the Top Tiers to make them more average) and then you have the stand-outs such the top 12 in the game who clearly have stronger and consistent options that beats out the other characters.. Smash Ultimate is looking like it's addressing the pathetically average aspect which is good.

 

[The_Bookworm]

What do you mean she invalidates most of the top tiered characters? Quite a few of them easily goes head-to-head against her. Although she has the least amount of losing matchup in the game, she is probably the top tier character with the most amount of even matchups.

She is not as strong as pre-patch Diddy and pre-patch Sheik, as those two characters were far more numerous in representation (especially Diddy) and they won much more events/top placings (even outside of ZeRo).

 

[Iridium]

Um...because Tweek has been on a rampage ever since bringing out his Bayonetta? He has been placing very well before then with Cloud, and the switch has allowed him to branch out his options and take majors frequently as of late.

I meant that people actually thought he was better than Leo overall, even before CEO. I see tight competition between the two, but Leo still leads now.

 

[Ordeaux26]

What do you mean she invalidates most of the top tiered characters? Quite a few of them easily goes head-to-head against her. Although she has the least amount of losing matchup in the game, she is probably the top tier character with the most amount of even matchups.

She is not as strong as pre-patch Diddy and pre-patch Sheik, as those two characters were far more numerous in representation (especially Diddy) and they won much more events/top placings (even outside of ZeRo).

even some mid tiers can do decently against Bayonetta like Lucas Roy and Game And Watch

 

[EMT~]

I made a longer post in another thread about this, but to make it short, I'm of the opinion that people hate Bayo so aggressively mostly because counterplay options against Bayo at the moment haven't been developed too much. Stuff like SDI options against Bayo combos has been developed, but when doing the right SDI option can get you killed, how reliable is it? With a lack of extensive counterplay options, it's easy to be frusturated and feel helpless against a character whom it seems nothing is working against. The same logic applies to why people hate Melee Puff but not Melee Fox, even though Fox is undoubtedly the best character in Melee.

The old, repressed memories of prepatch Bayo certainly doesn't help matters, either.

 

[Illusion.]

even some mid tiers can do decently against Bayonetta like Roy

Roy gets easily outranged/stuffed out, can’t land, gets edgeguarded for free, and gets outrewarded. Only thing he really has going for him are his grab combos and movement options.

It’s easily in Bayonetta’s favor.

 

[Ordeaux26]

Roy gets easily outranged/stuffed out, can’t land, gets edgeguarded for free, and gets outrewarded. Only thing he really has going for him are his grab combos and movement options.

It’s easily in Bayonetta’s favor.

I never said it wasn't in Bayonetta's favour but Roy can actually do decently well vs Bayonetta could be -1 or -2 for Roy but probably -1

 

[Illusion.]

I wouldn’t consider “doing decently well” against a character to mean losing the MU. Makes more sense if it means to go even or win it.

If “doing decently well” against Bayonetta meant having a -1 MU with her, that’d be a problem...

 

[Ordeaux26]

wouldn’t consider “doing decently well” against a character to mean losing the MU. Makes more sense if it means to go even or win it.

If “doing decently well” against Bayonetta meant having a -1 MU with her, that’d be a problem...

matchups are a lot more complicated than that

 

[ぱみゅ]

Stuff like SDI options against Bayo combos has been developed, but when doing the right SDI option can get you killed, how reliable is it?

If it got you killed, chances are it wasn't the right option.
There no "universal" right option to always get you out of Witch Twist, though there is a lot of undeveloped counterplay for the ABKs. Please, always SDI the ABKs.

 

[The_Bookworm]

If it got you killed, chances are it wasn't the right option.
There no "universal" right option to always get you out of Witch Twist, though there is a lot of undeveloped counterplay for the ABKs. Please, always SDI the ABKs.

A rule of thumb: try to DI down and behind when she hits you with an ABK. Also, if she has high/max rage, never SDI upwards Witch Twist if you are close to the upper blast zone. We all know what happened to Nairo vs Mistake at Genesis 5.