The Big House 5 Announced

[ARBITER WARPIG]

As a Smash 4 player, I'm excited for the game to be at big house, but it is sad to see PM not here anymore
I'm more just worried about the players being civil with one another...because PM got a lot of smack last year and I'm REALLY worried about people complaining about smash 4...we'll see what happens

Oh please, you know they will. But to those people I say that they are full of: Bulllllllllllll****!

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

They'll probably say they're under an NDA or something. This is ridiculous honestly. The lack of transparency is only arousing suspicion. At least GimR brought up his reasons (although late), and someone was brave enough to show us that a certain man was indeed working with Nintendo and had intent to kill PM altogether.

Wait, who was this?

 

[ミスティック Speed]

PM...dead?
Uh oh....here comes the swat team....

 

[Streetwize]

Wait, who was this?

While people were off arguing with the sexual accusations, they seemed to have forgotten the other incriminating evidence of using others such as this.
http://i.imgur.com/26SYPEp.png

 

[CyberHyperPhoenix]

While people were off arguing with the sexual accusations, they seemed to have forgotten the other incriminating evidence of using others such as this.
http://i.imgur.com/26SYPEp.png

...************...

So wait, if there was a deal, wouldn't it have happened by now?

Maybe he was talking **** but.... damn bruh.

 

[ELITEWarri0r115]

I seriously want to know if Nintendo is scaring TOs, or forcing Project M out of tournaments.

You have a point

 

[C-SAF]

There will be many tournaments between now and October not featuring PM. If ur gunna rage at every single one without it ur wasting energy u could be spending making ur own events.

 

[Browny]

Nintendo isnt doing anything to stop PM, TO's are just being weak sell-outs, deluded into thinking that they will get Nintendos support by dropping PM.

When Nintendo wants something done, they dont *****-foot around the issue and sabotage it from the shadows. They go and get things done. When they didnt like the EVO stream, they immediately go to shut it down. PM has been around for YEARS and Nintendo hasnt ever tried to stop a stream of it.

Amount of money Nintendo donated to the scene before Apex 2015 = $0
Amount of money all future TO's will receive by dropping PM = $0

They just want to believe that Nintendo will give them free money. There is no basis whatsoever for it, except the effectively 0% chance of Nintendo sponsoring TBH5

 

[C-SAF]

Nintendo isnt doing anything to stop PM, TO's are just being weak sell-outs, deluded into thinking that they will get Nintendos support by dropping PM.

When Nintendo wants something done, they dont pu$$y-foot around the issue and sabotage it from the shadows. They go and get things done. When they didnt like the EVO stream, they immediately go to shut it down. PM has been around for YEARS and Nintendo hasnt ever tried to stop a stream of it.

Amount of money Nintendo donated to the scene before Apex 2015 = $0
Amount of money all future TO's will receive by dropping PM = $0

They just want to believe that Nintendo will give them free money. There is no basis whatsoever for it, except the effectively 0% chance of Nintendo sponsoring TBH5

Nintendo is "pus$y footing" around this though. They don't even acknowledge it exists. So everything u wrote after that is just wrong.

 

[WinterShorts]

I wonder if Mang0 is actually going to stay true to his word in his Apex 2015 interview and actually challenge Leffen to another $1000 money match if they meet together in bracket.

It'd be another good melee tournament I'd watch part of, that's for sure.

 

[Browny]

Nintendo is "pus$y footing" around this though. They don't even acknowledge it exists. So everything u wrote after that is just wrong.

If they acknowledge PM exists and do nothing, then that somehow legitimises it and shows that they are OK with their game being modified without their consent.

Alternatively, they could acknowledge PM exists, and then shut it down completely.

They choose not to acknowledge it exists because they don't care enough to shut it down. They aren't happy that it exists, but they aren't going to enrage their fans by shutting it down. Therefore the only scenario is; they don't care if anyone streams PM. At a Nintendo sponsored event they have every right to not stream it. But TBH5 isn't Nintendo sponsored. There is NOTHING stopping them from streaming PM, just like every other tournament ever that wasn't Apex 2015. Nintendo flat out does not care.

 

[C-SAF]

If they acknowledge PM exists and do nothing, then that somehow legitimises it and shows that they are OK with their game being modified without their consent.

Alternatively, they could acknowledge PM exists, and then shut it down completely.

They choose not to acknowledge it exists because they don't care enough to shut it down. They aren't happy that it exists, but they aren't going to enrage their fans by shutting it down. Therefore the only scenario is; they don't care if anyone streams PM. At a Nintendo sponsored event they have every right to not stream it. But TBH5 isn't Nintendo sponsored. There is NOTHING stopping them from streaming PM, just like every other tournament ever that wasn't Apex 2015. Nintendo flat out does not care.

If I was organizing Big House, I wouldnt risk legal action against my tournament. Juggleguy puts a lot of work that he VOLENTEERS to the smash community. There is no money for him to make. Streamers don't decide what goes at a tournament, the TO does.

Also, there are no choices here. If Nintendo is forced to acknowledge it then they must shut it down. They cant choose to "not care", otherwise they set legal precedent.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

It's amazing how many tourneys Nintendo's legal team is capable into turning into trash for 3/5 of the communities that exist.

1337 3d17: I acknowledge the chance that Nintendo hasn't gotten involved, but in that case I can only say that you TO's come off as pathetic entrepreneurs in pursuit of cash (for now anyway). And guess what, Nintendo doesn't give a damn if there Kyoto-system is up to speed. They have other games to promote outside of Smash, and even if they add more characters to 4, their wallets know when a well is drying up. Their wallets know when a game is trash to the companies financial interests; regardless of it's value to players.

 

[JipC]

So is it actually Nintendo forcing PM out of tournaments or just worried streamers/TOs?

 

[Browny]

If I was organizing Big House, I wouldnt risk legal action against my tournament. Juggleguy puts a lot of work that he VOLENTEERS to the smash community. There is no money for him to make. Streamers don't decide what goes at a tournament, the TO does.

Also, there are no choices here. If Nintendo is forced to acknowledge it then they must shut it down. They cant choose to "not care", otherwise they set legal precedent.

omg

No one is asking Nintendo to acknowledge it. I am saying that they ARENT acknowledging it, in the exact same way that they have never acknowledged PM in the last 3 years.

There is no legal threat against the tournament and there never has been. PM tournaments have been going on for years, the biggest tournaments with the most viewers streaming PM. And Nintendo has never cared! NOT ONCE! They only care at Nintendo-sponsored events. In fact, the only time that Nintendo has ever actually cared was to stop melee being streamed at EVO!

Times melee/brawl/64/smash 4 has been blocked by Nintendo in last 14 years = once
Times PM has been blocked by Nintendo in last 14 years = none

Juggleguy has nothing to be afraid of. The only reason they are 'scared' of Nintendo is because they are scared of not getting free Sponsorship $$ if they drop PM. However, this has never happened... its never happens. People want to believe that by dropping PM Nintendo will give them money. It doesn't work like that.

 

[C-SAF]

omg

No one is asking Nintendo to acknowledge it. I am saying that they ARENT acknowledging it, in the exact same way that they have never acknowledged PM in the last 4 years.

There is no legal threat against the tournament and there never has been. PM tournaments have been going on for years, the biggest tournaments with the most viewers streaming PM. And Nintendo has never cared! NOT ONCE! They only care at Nintendo-sponsored events.

Juggleguy has nothing to be afraid of. The only reason they are 'scared' of Nintendo is because they are scared of not getting free Sponsorship $$ if they drop PM. However, this has never happened... its never happened. People want to believe that by dropping PM Nintendo will give them money. It doesnt happen.

Not a matter of being scared. Its literally if they acknowledge ur game the PMBR will face legal action. Having PM at major tournaments next to Smash4 will force Nintendo to acknowledge. Because of Smash4 exists now, TO's need Nintendo for Set ups and TV's. Juggleguy talks about this on MIOM all the time.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

Not a matter of being scared. Its literally if they acknowledge ur game the PMBR will face legal action. Having PM at major tournaments next to Smash4 will force Nintendo to acknowledge. Because of Smash4 exists now, TO's need Nintendo for Set ups and TV's. Juggleguy talks about this on MIOM all the time.

Yo, the PMBR/PMDT have ALWAYS face legal action. And no, Nintendo hasn't been and doesn't need to provide more setups since APEX 2015. It's a lameass excuse for a even more lameass situation. d0 joo und3rst4nd?

 

[Browny]

Not a matter of being scared. Its literally if they acknowledge ur game the PMBR will face legal action. Having PM at major tournaments next to Smash4 will force Nintendo to acknowledge. Because of Smash4 exists now, TO's need Nintendo for Set ups and TV's. Juggleguy talks about this on MIOM all the time.

If TBH5 is sponsored by Nintendo and they provide smash 4 set-ups, then the entire equation changes. The event becomes Nintendo sponsored and they have every right to ban PM.

However, TBH5 is NOT sponsored by Nintendo. Therefore, they have the same legal risks as SKTAR, WHOBO, Collision and every other big smash tournament that isnt nintendo sponsored. Which is literally EVERY tournament except Apex 2015, and the threat is 0. Nintendo has never stopped anything at these non-Nintendo sponsored events. TBH5 falls firmly in that category. The TO's here just want free Nintendo sponsorship, but they aren't going to get it, and punish the community for no good reason.

 

[Smearglangelo]

The Big House is running Smash 4? Awesome!

 

[C-SAF]

If TBH5 is sponsored by Nintendo and they provide smash 4 set-ups, then the entire equation changes. The event becomes Nintendo sponsored and they have every right to ban PM.

However, TBH5 is NOT sponsored by Nintendo. Therefore, they have the same legal risks as SKTAR, WHOBO, Collision and every other big smash tournament that isnt nintendo sponsored. Which is literally EVERY tournament except Apex 2015.

U and @ Raccoon Chuck can argue about this all u want. But if u don't want PM to get a C&D u should be happy not to see PM promoted to much. What changed from 2014 to 2015? Smash4 was released. Whether u like it or not PM is direct competition for Smash4 and Nintendo cant let it exist if its forced to their attention. Why the **** would I buy Smash4 when PM3.5 was released at almost the same time? Legal precedent is a ***** but its also Black and white. Just let PM stay I the gray and don't rip on volenteers who give what they can to the scene.

 

[Omegaphoenix]

ITT: People being understandably mad about PM being dropped but massively overblowing their salt production.

I'm excited to see both the Melee and Smash 4 matches, and while I'm sad PM won't show, that doesn't mean I won't be excited for what's up. Pray they have customs legal for 4

Also, Nintendo can't acknowledge PM without slapping it with a C&D so hard it would make the PMDT break orbital velocity and fly into space. Just saying

 

[◥θ┴θ◤ | JJ]

I'm wondering if it's best to not have PM for the time being. Perhaps it's best to keep it on the DL for a bit so that it doesn't get too big? Or maybe even just keep it to smaller tournaments? Because if it gets too big, it might run the risk of getting cut from all tournaments forever, courtesy of our friends over at Sora & Nintendo.

Just a thought.

 

[Mashu Koria]

I've been trying to ignore it, but let's face it guys:
PM is dying, sadly.

The top two stream channels/organizations have recently cut PM.
Now big tournaments have replaced it with Smash 4.
I guess they don't want to use the same setups for PM and Melee?
Whatever. I guess it's all up to us and bigger locals now.

 

[Mashu Koria]

I'm wondering if it's best to not have PM for the time being. Perhaps it's best to keep it on the DL for a bit so that it doesn't get too big? Or maybe even just keep it to smaller tournaments? Because if it gets too big, it might run the risk of getting cut from all tournaments forever, courtesy of our friends over at Sora & Nintendo.

Just a thought.

They have no say what we do with our game and hardware after we purchase it, and they don't really give a sh-t as long as they get bank.

Now Nintendo sponsored tournaments are one thing, but I think they've mentioned PM and how they liked it, because they like self innovation, and PM is a great example of that.

 

[HalcyonDays]

ITT: People being understandably mad about PM being dropped but massively overblowing their salt production.

Ah, this actually isn't nearly as bad as it used to be. At this point, news of PM exclusion tends to be more of an eye-roller.

Besides, I believe in the community's ability to keep this game alive, just like with Melee for all those years. They share the same love for their games.

 

[M@v]

smash 4 <3 Thanks Juggleguy <3<3<3

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

People should stop pretending they know all of the details.

 

[Gawain]

Reading these replies has reminded me why i dropped PM. You guys are way too vindictive, way too quick to start throwing accusations, way too emotional. It's like a democrat rally in here. Give it a rest already.

 

[LiL.Will]

I missed the last TBH tournaments I am NOT missing this one HYPE!!!

 

[N00B64]

well first it was CEO and now the big house

sorry I wont be attending anymore, not worth the drive from canada just to play a 10 year old game and a joke

 

[StarshipGroove]

Juggleguy's decision is absolutley justified, if there's only time to run two smash games there is no point in running both Melee and Project bootleg M when they're so damn similar

 

[Gidy]

....man, it really upsets me that there's no Project M. I think that this is slowly becoming the end for it. Dissapoinotingly, this was also going to be my first TBH I was going to attend as well. I've put a lot of work in to it, and this just saddens me.

Can we get a reason why? Is Nintendo sponsoring this tournament like EVO and Apex? Or are they trying to get that Nintendo sponsorship? I really hope neither of those are the case.

 

[Gidy]

Juggleguy's decision is absolutley justified, if there's only time to run two smash games there is no point in running both Melee and Bootleg Melee when they're almost the same game

...what

 

[Steelo Rivers]

Too late, because those stupid corporate butts finally realized they can PROFIT out of the competitive scene. Since Nintendo does not own PM, no profits, so no PM.

I am disappointed with streamers and TOs dropping PM. We should stand together and say NO to Nintendo killing PM. In my opinion, boycotting PM like this is inexcusable. Kinda like taking part in murder. Of Project M. Kinda.

I hope there are still TOs who will organize PM tournaments. I am sad.

People begged and begged for nintendo to get involved. Now that Nintendo's involved, people are surprised they're flexing their expensive muscles and well toned cash flow. I guess everyone forgot that nintendo is a business..

 

[◥θ┴θ◤ | JJ]

They have no say what we do with our game and hardware after we purchase it, and they don't really give a sh-t as long as they get bank.

Now Nintendo sponsored tournaments are one thing, but I think they've mentioned PM and how they liked it, because they like self innovation, and PM is a great example of that.

Like I said, maybe.

 

[Mach5Mike]

I think I need some clarification. Out of all the tournaments that have dropped PM for the reason I think they are, how many of those tournaments (excluding APEX) received any kind of support from Nintendo (sponsorships, pot bonuses, setups, social network advertisements, Splatoon demos, etc.)?

 

[Browny]

People begged and begged for nintendo to get involved. Now that Nintendo's involved, people are surprised they're flexing their expensive muscles and well toned cash flow. I guess everyone forgot that nintendo is a business..

Except they didnt 'flex their muscles'. Nintendo has never shut down a single PM stream. Nintendo has only ever shut down one smash stream in history, and that was melee at Evo 2013.

I think I need some clarification. Out of all the tournaments that have dropped PM for the reason I think they are, how many of those tournaments (excluding APEX) received any kind of support from Nintendo (sponsorships, pot bonuses, setups, social network advertisements, Splatoon demos, etc.)?

Evo 2014 and Apex 2015 are the only tournaments in recent times that Nintendo sponsored (not counting the Smash 4 WiiU invitational here). Seeing as Evo never had PM on the lineup, it never dropped PM. Therefore no tournament that Nintendo sponsored outside of Apex has dropped PM .

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Oh...no PM again.

Can people give at least an answer?

Nintendo may be sponsoring.

 

[Ningildo]

Reading these replies has reminded me why i dropped PM. You guys are way too vindictive, way too quick to start throwing accusations, way too emotional. It's like a democrat rally in here. Give it a rest already.

Yeah, how dare we be angry that a game we're passionate about and showed up in prior installments of this tournament series suddenly be dropped for no reason. HOW DARE WE, INDEED!

Granted, some people need to dial down the salt a wee bit, but uh...having a passionate community is the reason PM is still alive and kicking, hell, it's the reason PM started to begin with. So if you wanted a community that just takes **** like this and not demand an answer as to why, well, I'm afraid it will have to disappoint you.

 

[Bobojack]

I bet most of you who are complaining dont even have any idea of hosting tournaments. If you care about the PM community so much and if PM really is such a big scene then pls show it to us and host tournaments. That would help more than crying about a side event not being at a melee tourney. You can say everything about how sad you are but insulting Juggleguys desicions wont make anything better.