Smash 3DS The balance in this game is just awful.

[Clemente]

People online keep attacking my warlock punches when they should just grab...

CONCLUSION: Nobody knows enough about the game to say it's imbalanced.

Are you implying that as I learn more about the game, the hitboxes are going to change?

 

[xExcel]

literal ******

12 year old detected.

 

[Weavile's Wrath]

Are you implying that as I learn more about the game, the hitboxes are going to change?

No, I'm saying that people don't know how moves work yet. You're thinking too hard. These players didn't know Warlock Punch had super armor. That's all.

 

[Captain Norris]

Well I'm glad someone with Bowser, Little Mac, and ZSS in their sig is telling me that balance is great, which are some of the most viable characters in the game (no clue about Jiggly)




Thanks for taking my one example and assuming that that one matchup sums up my whole point.

Jigglypuff is viable. In fact, let me just name off ALL fo the "viable" characters as of now.
Mario
Link
Toon Link
Pac Man
Bowser
Yoshi
Sheik
Zero Suit Zamus
Ganondorf
Fox
Marth
Lucina
Robin
Shulk
Pit
Dark Pit
Palutena (sometimes)
RosaLuma
Greninja
Little Mac(ish)
Jigglypuff
Charizard
Lucario
Pikachu
Sonic
Duck Hunt
Diddy Kong
Bowser Jr.
Luigi
Wii Fit Trainer
Villager

This is a viable, unbalanced character roster.

 

[Clemente]

I'm glad someone who has clearly played 5 characters max online can tell us what's viable ^

 

[Kekezo]

Well, I have to say that this game feels the most balanced of all the Smash Bros. series so far. Except as of recently I feel like Yoshi's damage is broken af but that is probably just me being salty about getting whooped by two different Yoshis in a row.

 

[Weavile's Wrath]

I'm glad someone who has clearly played 5 characters max online can tell us what's viable ^

I bet he's played against more than just those characters.

 

[SwoodGrommet]

Well this thread is going downhill fast. Let's not get into trash talking, guys. Just accept that as of now, certain characters are giving people difficulty. Maybe they just have really good hitboxes. Maybe they don't. Maybe we all just need to spend a little more time at the game to understand it a bit better. There's no point on dwelling on it though, that'll get you nowhere. Everybody has raised good points though, I think we can all agree.

 

[Captain Norris]

I'm glad someone who has clearly played 5 characters max online can tell us what's viable ^

Yeah, because you know exactly who I have played as and against, and what videos I watch. -_-
I mean seriously. At least explain to me how the characters mentioned are unviable. I am all ears.

 

[rabbit.soaring]

I'm glad someone who has clearly played 5 characters max online can tell us what's viable ^

You don't know that... Where are you getting "clearly" from? Anyways, this thread feels kinda unnecessary. The game's been out for a week, no one can really say anything conclusive about it's balance(Though I do think it's pretty well balanced).

At least explain to me how the characters mentioned are unviable. I am all ears.

What this guy said. Stating your opinions is fine, but you can't expect anyone to care what you have to say if you don't back it up.

 

[Phoenix_Dark]

I'm glad someone who has clearly played 5 characters max online can tell us what's viable ^

I'm sorry, but who are you to make absurd assumptions and then turn around and tell others they don't have the right to do so? Your profile picture is quite fitting. You come off as intelligent as him.

 

[Merkabo]

Well, how about this to solve all arguements? Ill play the characters you consider bottom tier and you can play the characters you consider top tier. Ill bet there aint much of a difference man. Not like the previous games. And how long has the game been out? A week?

According to that Japanese Tier list, ZSS is up there, like top tier. While Ganon is near the bottom. Yet I haven't lost against ZSS in the plethora of online for glory matches ive had with said character for several days.

Basically point is, your argument has no purpose at this time to even be discussed. Unless there was some game breaking bug, there really is no point in even bringing balance up.

 

[Clemente]

I'm sorry, but who are you to make absurd assumptions and then turn around and tell others they don't have the right to do so? Your profile picture is quite fitting. You come off as intelligent as him.

Enough of your poorly thought out posts. You've been misinterpreting my thread since my OP.

 

[Merkabo]

Let's all relax. No need to get feisty.

 

[Weavile's Wrath]

Make this thread 6 months from now and we'll have better results. Maybe even later than that.

 

[victra♥]

Most balanced Smash so far imo and I've played all the predecessors at a competitive level.

If you think it's possible to perfectly balance a game then you're delusional, much less a game with as many characters as Smash 4. I don't think Smash 4 has clear top tier and clear bottom characters so far (save for Sheik and Ganon respectively). For the most part the majority of the cast is tournament viable.

 

[Merkabo]

And its quite a feat to have all 49 characters as viable as they are. Its probably one of the best done fighting games yet.

 

[Clemente]

And its quite a feat to have all 49 characters as viable as they are. Its probably one of the best done fighting games yet.

I'm fine with people saying it's the best balanced Smash yet (since I didn't play any other Smash competitively) but you gotta be joking here. The disparity between characters in other games is much much much smaller...

 

[Merkabo]

Which characters are you referring to? I told you before. Ill play all of the ones you think are ****ty, and you can play all of your god tier characters. It'll end your argument very quickly.

 

[Captain Norris]

This guy. Stating your opinions is fine, but you can't expect anyone to care what you have to say if you don't back it up.

Fair enough. I just didn't want to put up a wall of text for explaining it all.
Mario: decent recovery and Cape Gimps. Can combo reliably at certain percents.
Link: Very good item juggling, although set back by his his slight slownees. He makes up for it with his good ground game.
Toon Link: Amazing Juggling with items. Grab is quicker than Link, but it takes longer to KO
Pac Man: Great on Flat Stages with Hydrant -> Bair to item strings. Annoying to play against cause he has plenty of mix ups.
Bowser: fast with Super Armor. Although his recovery is not the best.
I will continue this later. Mark my words...

 

[Weavile's Wrath]

I'm fine with people saying it's the best balanced Smash yet (since I didn't play any other Smash competitively) but you gotta be joking here. The disparity between characters in other games is much much much smaller...

Mmmhmm...Brawl Meta Knight and Ganondorf beg to differ.

 

[Tsukihi Araragi]

I don't know what you mean OP, this game is probably the most balanced yet.

 

[Clemente]

Mmmhmm...Brawl Meta Knight and Ganondorf beg to differ.

Re-read my post please

 

[Jucchan]

I'm fine with people saying it's the best balanced Smash yet (since I didn't play any other Smash competitively) but you gotta be joking here. The disparity between characters in other games is much much much smaller...

This is Smash, not "other games". Characters have fun and unique play-styles. Even though it's inevitable that some characters are going to be better than others, Smash 4 is the most balanced Smash yet, all while having around 50 characters and introducing new mechanics. That is quite a feat.

 

[Ffamran]

I'm glad someone who has clearly played 5 characters max online can tell us what's viable ^

A character who is viable is completely different from a character who isn't. A viable character can be bad or good. One example is Fox in Brawl and SSB4. He's not top tier or bottom tier in either game. He's just a jack of all trades. Sheik, as we know, is viable and good. Ike and Ganondorf are viable, but are slow and somewhat predictable. Falco's viable, but not top tier viable like in Melee or Brawl. He's different, but he's not horrible. He can still kill with his Side Smash, bair, uair, and dair which is more situational now and I tend to land it as a huge interrupter on the ground; and Blaster can stun and interrupt, but it's not as great as in Melee or Brawl. To me, he's really different and that throws me off, but he's nothing close to being horrible.

Now, a character who's not viable and completely horrible was Ganondorf in Brawl. There was no logical reason to use him unless you wanted his trophies. He was powerful, but so freaking slow and lacked Ike's range and had no decent recovery. Now, he's not the greatest, but compared to Brawl, he's much better. Maybe not like Ganondorf in Melee, but close, as in he's actually viable now. He's extremely powerful and durable, but that comes at the cost of range, speed, and recovery which isn't freaking horrible - it's bad, but not Little Mac bad, actually, I think his recovery was worst than Little Mac in Brawl. So, Ganondorf is viable, but not the greatest or the worst as far as we know since something miraculous could happen and revolutionary discoveries turns Ganondorf from being a King of Evil into an Emperor of Evil.

Then there's Pichu in Melee who was not only not viable but factually the worst character in the game. Attacks that do damage to itself and without a huge reward like Roy's Flare Blade, Ike's Eruption, or Charizard's Flare Blitz. It's not just a weaker Pikachu, but a weaker character overall.

 

[rabbit.soaring]

Fair enough. I just didn't want to put up a wall of text for explaining it all.
Mario: decent recovery and Cape Gimps. Can combo reliably at certain percents.
Link: Very good item juggling, although set back by his his slight slownees. He makes up for it with his good ground game.
Toon Link: Amazing Juggling with items. Grab is quicker than Link, but it takes longer to KO
Pac Man: Great on Flat Stages with Hydrant -> Bair to item strings. Annoying to play against cause he has plenty of mix ups.
Bowser: fast with Super Armor. Although his recovery is not the best.
I will continue this later. Mark my words...

I was actually talking to Clemente, but he doesn't seems to respond to posts he doesn't like. I agree with the list.

 

[DadPalindrome]

There are characters who are better than most of the roster? In a fighting game?!
CALL CNN, WE GOT OURSELVES A HOT SCOOP!
Funnily enough, this is probably the most well balanced Smash to date, and is a pretty balanced fighting game all around (especially considering the roster size). Let's go play some MvC and Heritage OP, lol.

 

[Renji64]

Almost every character in this game seems viable but at the same time the game is still young. It is a bit too early to say it is unbalanced. There are some questionable aspects in this game tho.

 

[Blue Warrior]

Thanks for taking my one example and assuming that that one matchup sums up my whole point.

You need better examples then, because currently this thread is a joke.

 

[Shiliski]

I'm fine with people saying it's the best balanced Smash yet (since I didn't play any other Smash competitively) but you gotta be joking here. The disparity between characters in other games is much much much smaller...

You mean to say the difference between Zelda and Meta Knight is tiny in Brawl?

Or the difference between Fox and Mewtwo in Melee?

 

[PandaPanda Senketsu]

I mean I didn't expect this game to be balanced at all, Sakurai couldn't balance a game to save his life. He also probably doesn't care too much about balance because this game was meant to be a party game, so as long as its balanced for the casuals its all good to him.

fyi every smash game seemed balanced when they were first released, after a while people discover the best characters and those top tiers end up dominating the meta game.

 

[Dsull]

Was anyone else hoping that especially with people that worked on Tekken working on the game, that there would be some semi-heavy focus on balancing?....

post null and void right there. Tekken is the most imbalanced fighter ever (thats well known anyway). Mashing buttons was a way easier way to win in that game than actual tactic and combos.

Back on topic.

Only thing in this game that seems to irritate me is the damage priority seems all screwy. There are so many moves that used/you'd think would trump more "common" moves like normal A attacks, dont. Little Mac is the biggest culprit of attacks that you cant punch through that totally make no sense to give super armor, yet a common A attack counters DK's full charge punch.
No idea how many times ive died because a common punch/tilt attack went through my smash attack

 

[Beninator]

I legitimately feel so far that the balancing is at it's worst for the series, which is ironic, since they focused on it this time, but Sakurai has no idea how competitive play works, so I guess it makes sense. It looks like he went "Well, that character was high tiered. Let's nerf them! That one was low tiered. Let's buff them!"

I appreciate the effort, but dammit Sakurai, it takes a bit more than that!

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I'm glad someone who has clearly played 5 characters max online can tell us what's viable ^

I'm glad that someone who's clearly played 5 characters max online is both telling us what is and isn't viable and is using online to make their decisions.

 

[Hyruleslink]

People seem to like to complain just for the sake of complaining. Just enjoy the game. It doesn't need to be perfect.

 

[Greda]

If you think the game is unbalanced then cross your fingers for balance patches. Personally I think there are two that might need adjusting but other than that not really.

 

[Sambiti]

Have you ever played a smash game? Its always unbalanced.

 

[Kevandre]

Despite it only being out a short time I definitely have to agree that SSB4 is way more valanced. But I'm not competitive and I've always believed that anybody is good in the right hands. But I definitely believe that even more in this game. They're all viable in some ways. Sometimes it just takes seeing someone whose mastered a character to realize it.

 

[Terotrous]

I wouldn't say awful, but there are some questionable balancing choices for sure. Like why would you nerf anything relating to Zelda when she's been low tier for 2 games? Why would you give Sheik literally every buff imaginable and then do nothing for characters like Donkey Kong?

I also think Little Mac might well be the worst-designed character in the entire series. He's just way too polarized. History has shown that in any fighting game, when you create a character who has such ludicrously extreme strengths and weaknesses that they barely even fit the mold of what a character is supposed to be, they're always either completely broken or completely useless. Court is still out on which one Little Mac is (I'm leaning towards completely broken, but time will tell), but either way it's going to be bad for the metagame.

Go play MVC3 and then think about balance.

I think you mean MvsC2. MvsC3's balance is actually pretty good, basically just because every character is insanely broken (aka, Smash 64 or XMen vs Street Fighter-style balance). It basically doesn't matter who you're playing against, you're going to die in one hit and the opponent will probably build like 2 bars doing it. As such, you see pretty much every character in competitive play even if a couple are more common than others.

I do feel that MvsC3 is too homogenous, though, a lot of characters feel pretty similar to each other since "damage output" and "defense" are not factors in the game.

 

[Vaughngief]

Sheik destroys all!!!

>easy to use
>can combo anything out of grab
>projectile game is insane

totally imbalanced lel.

Sheik is pretty good in a lot of places where some characters aren't so much overall, but it's nothing too bad. She's pretty light, so you just gotta play it smart and think over the match up with whoever you're playing.