the BAD things about wolf

[JCav]

ok, for starters, i main wolf. i play with him a lot. i think wolf is very good even top tier material. with that said wolf does also have some things that arent so good about him. first of all and i find this to be a bit of a problem with my play style, he cant approach, i mean his nair sucks, fair does have a bit of pre lag and post lag. his grab is pretty much obsolete as an approaching technique because it comes out very slow. the range on his gun (meaning how far it shoots before it disappears) is of course very bad but this is not needed anyway. the only other thing i dont like is his sweetspot on the edge is very small but that shouldnt be a problem over time. but yeah...

 

[RepMR]

I have to agree that Wolf's approach game isn't the best, but Wolf's blaster can be used to draw opponents to you. i have no troubles leading people around the stage with the blaster and Wolf's quick air movement.

Also, Wolf's Bair is a beast and it may be the best way to approach with Wolf due to its range. It requires being able to do reverse aerials well, but that's what Mario's game in Melee was based of and it seems even easier in Brawl.

 

[siLus]

I hate the hue delay after short hop fair, takes forever for his lazy *** to get up.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

AAA combo makes a fine approach as do his tilts. His Blaster also hits people at close range too, so it's no problem to use it close up.

 

[Banjodorf]

I hate the hue delay after short hop fair, takes forever for his lazy *** to get up.

As a fellow Wolf main, match after match, I notice the same thing, **** the lag...

Also, his spike ( I think it's a spike) is good, but the lag before he uses it is a pain. His shine is odd, his n-air sucks, and his f-air is.... not that great. He's also quite slow to attack, and approach, these are the bad things I notice about him, but plan to work around them.

On the plus side, his smashes are VERY good, love the d-smash, and his grabs and up-b, if you can get the final kick in at the end, is good for killing.

I love Wolf, his character is great, his model is great, his style is great, we just need to find ways to work around his flaws.

Edit: Ive also found I have problems against Olimar, Toon Link, Pit, and Pikachu.. Pikachu especially....

 

[BlackYoshi7]

His recovery sweet spot blows, especially on FD. The blaster is not bad though; it's just not as busted as Pit's arrows or TL's arrows/bombs/boomerang. His bair is just amazing though. He has a good neutral jab combo. His fsmash, usmash, and dsmash are all awesome. His uair has good priority.

 

[teekay]

Nair does NOT suck. You're just using it wrong. It has almost no lag, and thus is supurb for combos. I predict it will eventually become a major part of his game.

 

[Banjodorf]

Nair does NOT suck. You're just using it wrong. It has almost no lag, and thus is supurb for combos. I predict it will eventually become a major part of his game.

Ehh, it has it's uses, but as far as it becoming a major part of his game... only time will tell for sure.

 

[End Game]

Also, one thing about his nair, you CANT shield grab it.

 

[teekay]

I didn't even know that. Why not? Do you just mean because he can follow up so quickly, or is there some kind of throw invincibility involved? Seems like an odd thing to me.

And yeah, I think it's fairly true that "only time will tell." That's why I said I predict it will rather than stating it as an outright fact. >_>

 

[Banjodorf]

And yeah, I think it's fairly true that "only time will tell." That's why I said I predict it will rather than stating it as an outright fact. >_>

I know, it just sounded cool to say "only time will tell"

 

[Haarp]

I have to agree that Wolf's approach game isn't the best, but Wolf's blaster can be used to draw opponents to you. i have no troubles leading people around the stage with the blaster and Wolf's quick air movement.
.

i agree with you friend, but the blaster is really good vs the smash balls, you can steal it if you had a very good accuracy

BUT... the grabs really sucks!

 

[Corax]

Grabs are good to get around shields. Otherwise, it seems like wolf's approach game is primarily filled with blaster shots and jab combos for me. Oh and a ftilt and fsmash to mess with them (can't get too predictable) His dtilt and are fun and his usmash is great for people behind him cuase it sucks them in.

I hate how easily he can get edge guarded though. A well timed edge hog and wolf's falling speed takes care of the rest.

 

[Haarp]

oh yeah, another thing.... is the b+side, y almost die a few times using that movement

 

[Rat]

i really like Wolf's approaches so far. Anyone with a slow grab is absolutely destroyed by Nair->Jab. Anyone else you can still do Nair->Shine, with at least some success. IMO wolf's Nair is pretty sweet. The only problem is that if the first hit doesn't connect is has about 0 priority. Also try aiming the Nair at the back of their head. You might have problems if they roll behind but shine upon landing should cover you quite well.

Also, Depending on the opposing characters' grab range you can Bair approach pretty successfully.
But the game as a whole seems much more campy so maybe approaching isn't the most awesome thing.

On the Fair, with proper timing it will auto-cancel on a short-hop. The timing is immediately after he finishes his jumping animation (No FF). You land with 0 lag. If you are a little late you will have landing lag.
It actually becomes good as an approach or low hieght attack.
The biggest problem is that you can't pressure with it much considering they have have the rest of wolf's short hop to shield grab or whatever. I haven't had too much time to tool around with it but considering it's range and wolf's good air movement i'll figure it out.

His grab does not come out slow. It just has poor range. Plus Dthrow and Bthrow are ****-sauce.

 

[End Game]

I didn't even know that. Why not? Do you just mean because he can follow up so quickly, or is there some kind of throw invincibility involved? Seems like an odd thing to me.

And yeah, I think it's fairly true that "only time will tell." That's why I said I predict it will rather than stating it as an outright fact. >_>

It cant be shield grabbed because wolf goes through them when his nair is shielded so basically you cross over. Keep in mind that this is only if you shield it, if it lands then it will proceed to do all the hits.

 

[Admiral Pit]

I faced Wolf before and I realized that Wolf falls kinda fast, similar to that of Fox in melee.

 

[SoioPenguin]

Im glad I found this Topic because I was having huge problems with his approach...so I figured I would finally stop lurking and post something. I find that his blaster is very good for getting them to come to you and his air speed makes it easy to move around. I have also noticed though that his fsmash has a ton of range and is a decent way to move in or catch a retreating opponent.

His AAA combo isnt bad either, but I find its easier to just to piss people off with the blaster until they run at you. Anything is better that attempting to use his running attack.

 

[siLus]

i really like Wolf's approaches so far. Anyone with a slow grab is absolutely destroyed by Nair->Jab. Anyone else you can still do Nair->Shine, with at least some success. IMO wolf's Nair is pretty sweet. The only problem is that if the first hit doesn't connect is has about 0 priority. Also try aiming the Nair at the back of their head. You might have problems if they roll behind but shine upon landing should cover you quite well.

Also, Depending on the opposing characters' grab range you can Bair approach pretty successfully.
But the game as a whole seems much more campy so maybe approaching isn't the most awesome thing.

On the Fair, with proper timing it will auto-cancel on a short-hop. The timing is immediately after he finishes his jumping animation (No FF). You land with 0 lag. If you are a little late you will have landing lag.
It actually becomes good as an approach or low hieght attack.
The biggest problem is that you can't pressure with it much considering they have have the rest of wolf's short hop to shield grab or whatever. I haven't had too much time to tool around with it but considering it's range and wolf's good air movement i'll figure it out.

His grab does not come out slow. It just has poor range. Plus Dthrow and Bthrow are ****-sauce.

Sweet thanks for the Fair help, I'll work on that and see what i come up with, very informative.

 

[wolf_pack]

His blaster and his recovery is good sometimes and bad alot of times.

 

[Super_Nostalgic]

I never really have trouble with approach. I'm the kind of player that pressures them to come to you via blaster spam.

 

[Skazryk]

His nair is awesome, its really good for combo's

 

[Sonic721]

So we should make them come to us?

 

[Sledfang]

Regarding the nair... you guys must be short sighted or something, because I've found it to be fantastic (although it's been said you should watch for its bad priority, and that's definitely true). It has no lag, hits from all directions and since it goes through the shield (meaning you will usually land behind the opponent) it has little shield grab potential (somebody else said this). Nair to shine to Dsmash/Fsmash is just awesome and almost unstoppable. His Uair is good as long as it connects (I'm still getting used to it), Dair is pretty similar to Mario's Fair and just as effective as a spike. His ground neutrals are awesome (third hit puts just enough distance for an Fsmash) and his tilts are great (anyone else notice how dramatic his Ftilt is?). While I agree he has his weaknesses, I think that they are all very easy to overcome and work around. The blaster range disappointed me, but the inclusion of the bayonet was awesome and makes it stand out from the crowd. Most of his less appealing attacks I have been able to spice up with a shine combo, and also take note that his shine cancels almost all attacks (you can REALLY piss off Capt Falcon and Metaknight players by canceling their attacks).

 

[Zink]

crossup nair is good, bair is good, etc, but why not just hop around with blaster spam? unless you're up against someone with a really good projectile, like pit/tlink, air blaster is awesome, especially with bayonet. when they appraoch YOU, then you can use all your fun stuff.

 

[sugarpoultry]

The lag is about the only thing that ruins Wolf, and thats just online, so other than that, I have no complaints with him.

 

[Bocks]

i really like Wolf's approaches so far. Anyone with a slow grab is absolutely destroyed by Nair->Jab. Anyone else you can still do Nair->Shine, with at least some success. IMO wolf's Nair is pretty sweet. The only problem is that if the first hit doesn't connect is has about 0 priority. Also try aiming the Nair at the back of their head. You might have problems if they roll behind but shine upon landing should cover you quite well.

Also, Depending on the opposing characters' grab range you can Bair approach pretty successfully.
But the game as a whole seems much more campy so maybe approaching isn't the most awesome thing.

On the Fair, with proper timing it will auto-cancel on a short-hop. The timing is immediately after he finishes his jumping animation (No FF). You land with 0 lag. If you are a little late you will have landing lag.
It actually becomes good as an approach or low hieght attack.
The biggest problem is that you can't pressure with it much considering they have have the rest of wolf's short hop to shield grab or whatever. I haven't had too much time to tool around with it but considering it's range and wolf's good air movement i'll figure it out.

His grab does not come out slow. It just has poor range. Plus Dthrow and Bthrow are ****-sauce.

this is all exactly right, as wolf users its a must to learn how to cancel the fair, ive been using it vs my bro and it's pretty effective but not so much for approaching because u can shield grab the sh as he said, if your opponent is campy, approach with an nair to jab combo FOLLOWED UP by a sh fair with no lag, sometimes if your fast, you can get three fairs off on them before they can break out of it. his bair is a great aproach also but im just not good at it, i'm practicing right now

also try nair to ground dopdge to dsmash, its sick

 

[BlackTulip]

His Gun is very, very useful to approach in my opinion. I usually short hop shoot one and shoot another when i land and i can get close. His Fsmash has more range than it looks and alot people who play against Wolf underestimate that.

If you can get his grab (wich i agree needs to improve lolz) just follow up with his Uair then a Bair and his Bair is very good killing move. Also utalize his F tilt

 

[Mobman47]

i really like Wolf's approaches so far. Anyone with a slow grab is absolutely destroyed by Nair->Jab. Anyone else you can still do Nair->Shine, with at least some success. IMO wolf's Nair is pretty sweet. The only problem is that if the first hit doesn't connect is has about 0 priority. Also try aiming the Nair at the back of their head. You might have problems if they roll behind but shine upon landing should cover you quite well.

Also, Depending on the opposing characters' grab range you can Bair approach pretty successfully.
But the game as a whole seems much more campy so maybe approaching isn't the most awesome thing.

On the Fair, with proper timing it will auto-cancel on a short-hop. The timing is immediately after he finishes his jumping animation (No FF). You land with 0 lag. If you are a little late you will have landing lag.
It actually becomes good as an approach or low hieght attack.
The biggest problem is that you can't pressure with it much considering they have have the rest of wolf's short hop to shield grab or whatever. I haven't had too much time to tool around with it but considering it's range and wolf's good air movement i'll figure it out.

His grab does not come out slow. It just has poor range. Plus Dthrow and Bthrow are ****-sauce.

pretty much agree with everything you said.

I do have a few complaints in general about wolf, his recovery can be pretty horrendus at times. His up B cancles out all horizontal movement for him, so if you miss the ledge, theres a good chance your dying because you can't hope to fall the rest of the way to the ledge. This is understandable though given that wolf is a really good character, he needs to have certain areas of his game that cripple him.

Now for my MAJOR complaint with his recovery.

I'm sure this has happened to a few of you, but have you ever side B towards the ledge and he stops like he grabbed the ledge, but instead he just kinda glides against it? Your still able to use another side B or Up B but the momentum from your previous recovery is still pushing you, and your sliding against and DOWN the side of the stage. On a lipped stage, by the time you notice that wolf didn't appropriately grab the ledge (because he falls pretty quickly if your not paying absolute attention), you try to UP B but your already screwed cause your stuck underneath the ledge.

I really hate it when that happens during a serious match. Its practically a glitch that happens very often with his side b.

so theres three overall outcomes for grabbing the ledge with your side B
1. You actually grab the ledge.
2. You Land on the tip of the platform instead of grabbing the ledge at all. (this has surely happened to quite a few people too)
3. You stop in place as if you grabbed the platform, but instead you glide and fall downwards, probably under a lip of a stage, and then you die because theres no way UP B is saving you.




and sorry if someone already posted this complaint, I'm just lazy to check the rest of the posts .

 

[Zink]

up-b WILL go around sharp edges, you just have to be a little more careful how you aim it. it's very possible to go up, say, the ugly ledges of FD (not the easy ones either, the steep ones lower down)

 

[Tonyyyyyy]

Worst thing about wolf: his color combos are ugly.

I wish he could run faster too, his attack speed greatly makes up for that though.

Not gunna lie, I havn't really noticed much lag in his game with Fair, i'll have to look into it more tomorrow.

 

[Deforty]

his landing takes forever to finish after a fair, which could be canceled by SH and IMMEDIATELY Fairing. It's easier if you change your jump to L or R (whichever you don't use) to short hop leaving your thumb to whack that c-stick.

 

[sugarpoultry]

I find I use the shining a lot more nowadays. I shine, stun them, then forward smash. It makes a great combo. Lag screws it up though. >.>

I get sick and tired of Wolf's online who do nothing but lazer lazer lazer lazer forward smash repeat. Its annoying, and they actually beat me, thats whats so frustrating!!!!

 

[bigj987]

i always found that wolf is sorta cheap online cuz the laser/fsmash spam, but if u play against a wolf that does this u can jus sidestep into a dsmash and he wont be able to get near u.

trust me, when i first started playing wolf as my main i used to do this until this one person (using zelda), beat me senseless with the sidestep.

wolf is an awsome character tho, exccept he does have his flaws like everyone else.

 

[Vegeta214]

So guys (and sugar),

I just browsed through the whole thread, checking for the disadvantages you mentioned that Wolf has and gave each of them a little thought. And I noticed something interesting - you've disproven almost all of them. I'll give my two cents on the ones that have been stated (maybe even clearing up a couple more things for you) and hope you give me some feedback in return.

- His approach is lacking. No. His bair *****, but this has already been mentioned. You can not only Wolf Wall horizontally like Kashakunaki first stated, but you can ****ing WoP with him (obviously not as good as Jiggs could in her prime, but still). His fair auto-cancels which has also been stated, but can be shield grabbed, which is true for most aerials. His nair is good as an approach but lacks range, yet it can't be grabbed and combos.

His grab is slow/ has poor range Again, not true. It's already been said that his grab does not come out slow. His running grab might. But learning to shield-cancel grab totally negates that AND increases its range, making it actually good.

- His running speed blows As someone else in the thread has mentioned before (see what I meant earlier?) His speed in the air makes up for this. Mix in his incredible range (do the reverse bair right and you will smile) and all the tricks he can do (see the new scar technique for instance) and he has great maneuverability.

-The dair is slow The dair is rather situational. He has other kill moves (a lot of them). I don't use it very much anymore.

- Shine is odd. It was odd to me too, since I mained Fox back in the day. But its just different I guess. You can't really spike with it, nor can you waveshine. But you can still combo with it a little, and you can use it the way it was actually meant to be used - for reflecting projectiles at twice the speed, which boosts his game vs. characters who have better projectiles than the blaster. Which brings me to:

- The blaster has short range You can control the opponent so bad with this baby its not even funny (unless he's Pit or TL, in which case you shine). If it had any bigger range it would be broken.

- Throws don't combo This isn't from this thread, but from Drack's Wolf Guide. He can down-throw -> fsmash, but that becomes predictable after a while. So yeah they don't really combo, but few of them do these days. Throw combos with Wolf might make him too good anyway.

- Colours are ugly Black costume is top-tier. End of story.

- Online lag ruins him Ugh I hate it when my cousin ***** me online with Lucas and I can't do anything, but it isn't Wolf's fault so yeah. So on to the the most important point:

- His recovery is bad. I've heard lots of people say this for different reasons: The range isn't long enough. He gets ***** by FD. The sweetspot is too small. He gets edgehogged easily. The edge-glitch screws him over.
But the fact of the matter is, you can work around all of these since Wolf's recovery is one of if not the most versatile in the entire game. All it takes is a little skill. You have up-b which you can direct freely to sweetspot the edge. Then there is side-b, one of his best moves. You can cancel it to give it three different lengths, each with different properties. Do a short side-b to either the edge or to slide onto the stage. Do a medium one to actually INCREASE the range when recovering, since you will no longer lose all momentum afterwards and instead continue to glide either to the edge or onto the stage, whatever the situation.
A recently discovered tech allows you to go through most stages while hanging from the ledge. you drop from the ledge, then side-b into the stage. Unless the stage's name is FD or Castle Siege, you'll end up in the middle of the stage, down- or f-smashing people to death. If you hit people while doing this, you'll sweetspot the hit and send them flying. Now just edgeguard THEM instead. You can also kill people with the sweetspot while recovering normally, either spiking them or doing a powerful blow that sends them sideways.
The technique is the same as the weird glitch that places Wolf at the edge of the stage (ON the actual stage) while recovering, in which case he lands with zero lag and can immediately follow up with a smash or whatever. It depends on timing only - drop, wait very briefly, then side-b to end up in the middle; drop, wait a little longer and side-b to end up on the edge of the stage. This also explains the glitch where Wolf is about to grab the ledge, but ends up falling straight down instead. It means you are too close to the edge. Cancel the side-b accordingly, use up-b and move it down to sweetspot or simply recover onto the stage if possible.
All these tactics circumvent the issues with his recovery. Its so versatile I have the feeling I've left something out.

What ARE Wolf's downsides?

 

[Darth Vivi]

I agree, really the only flaws he has come down to: Difficult throws to pull off, slow dair, and a bad dash+A. Every other move of his is excellent. FFA can be difficult though, as Wolf seems to be geared more towards 1v1. I usually choose random in FFA and don't play as competitively, so that doesn't matter to me anyways.

 

[Wolydarg]

His final smash is a copy of fox's. But shorter. Not to mention the fact that using the final smash on that yoshi map with the three blocks in the center is akin to just running off the ledge. It probably won't affect many people, but my friends and I like to play 4 player FFA with all items on just to play a party game once in a while, and I always get shafted when it comes time for smash balls.

While his recovery may not be ludicrously bad, it pales in comparison to some of the other newcomer's recoveries, but I guess giving wolf a good recovery would make him too powerful, like Olimar.

Not being at home right now, can someone just tell me real quick if the shine can stop Olimar's pikmin, too?

 

[Bocks]

everything vegeta said was right.. wolf only weakness is a more skilled opponent, and for his recovery weaknesses, the benefits outweigh the faults. The only consistent problem i have vs a skilled player is when i get below a stage and am forced to vertically recover, i get ledge hogged EASY, other than that nothing, and one could argue that i have no reason to be under any stage in the first place

EDIT: shine stops pikmin if you use it right as the pikmin connect, like zeldas side-b it doesnt reflect but makes u immune to them.

 

[Vegeta214]

everything vegeta said was right.. wolf only weakness is a more skilled opponent, and for his recovery weaknesses, the benefits outweigh the faults. The only consistent problem i have vs a skilled player is when i get below a stage and am forced to vertically recover, i get ledge hogged EASY, other than that nothing, and one could argue that i have no reason to be under any stage in the first place

I was actually hoping I'd be wrong about some of the things I said. This makes things harder....

How about bad matchups?