The Average Tournament Player

[Burnt~Ramen]

I've recently been trying to get competitive at smash, but before I go to tournaments I'd like to know how good the average tournament player I'd be likely to play against is. My friend says that I would get crushed by the average tournament player, and while I would agree that he's not as good as most of the tournament players there and he usually beats me, I think I would stand a decent chance of beating some of the people there so it wouldn't be a total waste of money. I also thinks that he is highly exaggerating the level of the average tournament player; he says that LordHDL, who didn't lose by that much to Armada at APEX, is about the average of the people that I would be likely to face. I, however, think that the average player is a lot worse than him, and would be a lot closer to my skill level. What do you guys think?

 

[bearsfan092]

I'd say your uncertainty means you're gonna drown in the pools. Either that or go down pretty early in the bracket. If you don't know what to expect, you'll be overwhelmed.

That being said, I do know what to expect, and I still get overwhelmed.

 

[iRobinhoood]

Depends on location and tournament. Some tournaments I've been to I take one stock during bracket. Other tournaments I actually eliminate a player or two. I'd say the average player has a decent understanding of the game itself however how well they execute can vary greatly.

 

[BTmoney]

It sounds like you need to get four stocked still lol.
Your friend is probably right.
Look up Goya Marth vs unknown522 fox.
That's a skewed example because unknown is good as all hell but if you just started, people much much worse will be beating you handily.
That's how you should approach nationals or large regional tournaments. But as for locals I can't tell you. There are probably people worse than you, your level, and much better.

 

[Seartu]

Come to NorCal, you won't make bracket til you're top 100 in the world.

*sigh*

At least the people are rad.

 

[Bones0]

Lord HDL is well above average. Unless you've practically never played before, there will be plenty of other bad people for you to play. You probably won't play them in tournament because of seeding, but you can play them in friendlies all day.

 

[oukd]

hdl is good, i would say he's at least above average


imo you will invariably get crushed by 99% of the players at any given tournament until you regularly attend events...unless you're at the pinnacle of melee talent or some **** like that

experience is hard to appreciate until you have to face it first hand

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

Now that's a super-exaggeration. I bet you that I can help you improve your skills in a week's time to make it into bracket as long as you have TONS of determination.

 

[GhllieShdeKnife]

the above has a char dependant clause, tho i like the optimism

 

[Insom]

Come to NorCal, you won't make bracket til you're top 100 in the world

^THIS^

 

[Pizzaman]

just about everyone does bad their first tournament.

 

[Construct]

At my first tournament I sat down and played friendlies with a guy who said he didn't make it out of pools at Apex 2010, and he proceeded to death combo and four stock me. Again. And again. And again. And again. It was a good awakening. I did alright at that tournament, but it was a nice reality check that it didn't matter if I was the best kid on my block or at my school, because there are much bigger fish out there. There's no shame in getting scraped as a beginner, even if you don't want to admit to yourself that you're a beginner.

Don't expect to make money at first. Expect to have fun, expect to play your best, expect to improve.

 

[Melomaniacal]

You, like just about everyone else, will get crushed in your first tournament. I think there are a few key points to be made about this sort of thing:

1. Being able to crush all your friends from home/school means literally nothing in the competitive scene. I will barely even lose a stock against anyone at my university smash club, but I am considered a low-level player by competitive standards.
2. Do not take your first few tournaments as a chance to prove yourself or do well. Be humble, and take them as opportunities to improve. Now's not the time to go out and start getting results, now is the time to learn.
3. Consider all the work you have done up until this point getting your tech skill down as being the prerequisite to becoming a truly good player. Tech skill is what you need to crush your friends, but what separates good and great players is not tech skill. Everyone at the tournament level is expected to have their tech skill down. Tech skill is just what allows you to have the options you need to be a good player, if you know how to use your options well. Let tech skill become second nature, than shift your value to the mental aspect of the game.

 

[Shadow Huan]

yeah you'll get crushed.

however, your friend is BSing you as far as LordHDL goes, dude is probably the most technical Link out there and possibly the best Link... (i dk, don't follow Link player rankings)

what's average? i have no idea lol

 

[wraith55]

Go to a tournament! Even if you get scraped you will get wayyyy better just by going to one and playing friendlies.

 

[Bones0]

yeah you'll get crushed.

however, your friend is BSing you as far as LordHDL goes, dude is probably the most technical Link out there and possibly the best Link... (i dk, don't follow Link player rankings)

what's average? i have no idea lol

He did the best out of all the Link mains at Apex 2013. I would consider myself about average considering I'm almost always ranked in the middle or upper-middle of my locals, and HDL solidly 2-0'd (2-stocked) me in our Apex pools set. And I had been practicing the Link matchup for like an hour the day before so I wasn't just getting beat by Link gimmicks or anything like that. lol

 

[Burnt~Ramen]

Thanks for the advice, it's good to know that most of the people I would play against at tournaments won't be as good as Lord HDL lol. I've recently been trying to get my friend to mentor me, but he's not that much better than me, and he never can give advice freely to me for some reason, which is really annoying. The only thing he told me today for actual strategy was to wait until Marth misses with an attack to get in his range because of his lack of hitbox after his initial attack, and to attack Marth from a very close range since he doesn't have many fast offensive options up close on the ground. Even this took about a half hour to get out of him, and he usually says something like "I've told you all that you need to know" instead of giving me strategy or what my plan should be in a matchup, despite him knowing the information. Is there a guide where I could see what my general plan should be against a certain character, or how I should adapt to a player's playstyle? I feel like that would help me get up to the tournament level, since I have most of my tech skill down.

 

[Bones0]

Thanks for the advice, it's good to know that most of the people I would play against at tournaments won't be as good as Lord HDL lol. I've recently been trying to get my friend to mentor me, but he's not that much better than me, and he never can give advice freely to me for some reason, which is really annoying. The only thing he told me today for actual strategy was to wait until Marth misses with an attack to get in his range because of his lack of hitbox after his initial attack, and to attack Marth from a very close range since he doesn't have many fast offensive options up close on the ground. Even this took about a half hour to get out of him, and he usually says something like "I've told you all that you need to know" instead of giving me strategy or what my plan should be in a matchup, despite him knowing the information. Is there a guide where I could see what my general plan should be against a certain character, or how I should adapt to a player's playstyle? I feel like that would help me get up to the tournament level, since I have most of my tech skill down.

Check out your main's character specific board. Try not to ask super general questions, but you can just search the thread for other character names and look for some good posts about general matchup breakdowns. Most character specific forums actually have a thread dedicated to general matchup advice, so you can look through those as well. Ultimately, you should be learning from videos. There are layers upon layers of information in ever top level video. As a new player you will only be able to see the barebones tactics. You will notice which moves players use and how they combo or edgeguard. As you apply more and more techniques, you'll also notice more subtleties in each video. You will progress from learning about move choice to spacing in neutral and other complex strategies like calibrating your decisions based on risk/reward. As you grow as a player, you can go back and watch the very same videos you will watch today, and you will truly be watching a different game. I am sometimes amazed when I rewatch old videos (even ones from back in the MLG days before I had the chance to play other people). Not only am I simply able to keep up with what's going on better, but each action has so much more meaning behind it then what I originally took from it at face value.

 

[Swedish Delight]

My first tournament experience was more about playing in a new environment instead of at home or at a friend's. It takes getting used to a different mindset while playing, so just focusing on beating people all the time at your first will get you stressed out. Instead, try to talk to the guys that do beat you so you can learn more and perform better for the next tourny. Making friends is always a good thing.

And LordHDL is pretty damn good. Don't know what your friend is thinking.

 

[lanabo]

99% sure u will get spanked. it will be a good learning experience.

when i went to my first tourney i thought i had most of my tech skill down too. when u play against average tourney players (average meaning people who attend regionals/locals in legit, developed smash communities) u will likely learn that ur tech skill and 'game tempo' is far from where it needs to be, esp. if u've never played against these types of players before.

i don't mean to be an asshole but less than 2 weeks ago u made a thread about how u couldn't even SHDL, waveshine, or tech consistently, so u really shouldn't expect to do well ur first time against people who have been playing the game at a competitive level for much longer than u have.

 

[Armada]

One thing that is necessary to say.
HDL is MUCH better then the average player =)

 

[TreK]

Another thing, a tourney will never be a waste of your money, because watching the grand finals live is a lot more fun than watching a video.
You'll make friends, and bring home memories, pride and wisdom. People are more bound to give advices live than on a forum.
All of this, for less than the price of a movie. Worth it ? Definitely !

 

[Mew2King]

lord hdl is really, really good lol

link just sucks

 

[Burnt~Ramen]

It's too bad there aren't many melee tournaments in New Jersey; in some other games that I play there are tournaments every day or every week, depending on the game. I guess I should still start practicing for the next upcoming tournament, whenever that is. Does anyone from the Princeton or Philly area want to come over to play against me in a week or two? Message me if interested, since I'd like to play against someone with a different playstyle than my two friends to get a feel for how good I am compared to other players.

 

[Burnt~Ramen]

Also, should I stick to just one character to play for friendlies so I can improve it a lot? Right now I use 4 or 5 characters in friendlies, but it will take me a very long time to get good with all of them since they are so different.

 

[Bones0]

Pick 2 characters and play them equally (this is coming from someone who used to try to play 5+ depending on my mood lol).