Team Star Fox call in Krystal for Smash!

[Smokey21]

Seeing the salt as the manchildren on GameFAQs community and the SF64 purists melt down would be an added bonus if Krystal gets in Smash 5.

Not gonna lie... As someone that has been attacked by said people, that would please me as well.

I'd rather not have us look like a spiteful community, we should sell Krystal on her merits and not for "community superiority" There aren't as many of those anymore after Zero's flop anyway, I've seen more people shunning that thought line and moving to other games like Assault and Adventures, I've seen people both mention the game and shunning those thought lines on things like reddit and resetera without even really looking for it, This is a different time, mentalities are changing, Krystal does have a good chance overall, but like every character speculated none are guaranteed and they all have competition, all we must do is make her feel unique and popular. Which we've already done and will continue to do, to reiterate her points i'll create a bulletlist
-Advantages
1. intuitive, fresh kit involving a unique combo-oriented staff-based combat style, this itself contrasts with the rest of the Starfox roster
2. first-party character means there's no hoops to jump through for her inclusion
3. fairly popular in both US and Japan, nintendo's primary business targets as their reports would suggest (and I hear she's popular in germany too) especially during the ballot, which is when character selection would have occured most likely
-Disadvantages
1. Divisive character, opinions about Krystal aren't really neutral they're strongly positive or negative so this mitigates her popularity which is only so high to begin with.
2. Competition, there's alot more recent characters that she competes with for development time and several of them are more popular than her, so depending on roster size we may not get her
3. B-list series, SF has been on a decline for so long, losing a character in Smash 4 shows the series may not warrant more characters, and the veteran Wolf may take her space if they only feel it deserves 3, though this whole bullet may be irrelevant if the characters themselves are popular enough.

Krystal has been around for 16 years now and still hasn't been in Smash, but she was close(possibly multiple times through the ballot and almost making it in in Brawl). And it would be great if she makes it into smash in time to assist in "saving the franchise" because of gaining new fans through Smash. Her lack of appearances in the last 13 years has only strengthened us who still want to see her do well in the future, and even if she doesn't end up making it into the new Smash Brothers game I will still support her as a character. I still feel like she has a lot going for her and would love to see her in action(maybe as DLC "fingers crossed")! She does have a pretty strong list of advantages by going off what you got here, but I think her disadvantages are a little stronger from what I can tell. I feel like if Krystal makes it in smash along with Wolf it has potential to put Star Fox on the map again. And apparently there was a small hint of VC support in the direct yesterday. Maybe this is a sign that we might see her in Smash again since gamecube VC support would possibly have the older star fox titles attached that feature her at her best. Just an interesting thought I had after reading that reddit post! ^^

Throwing in my support again. It's been a while, hasn't it? I won't be nearly as vocal this time, but I'll chime in every once and a while.

Nice to see some familiar as well as new faces around these parts. :D

Hey hey! Good to see ya. feel free to stop by whenever you can! We don't bite... hard.

 

[Jakor]

Unfortunately, I think Krystal's chances of becoming a playable character are now less than they were during Brawl or Smash 4, especially since she didn't even appear in Star Fox Zero. With that said, I still support her and in my mind she would be a nice addition to the cast, and has the potential to have a different moveset than the other Star Fox characters, particularly if she uses her staff.

 

[Gagnetar]

Unfortunately, I think Krystal's chances of becoming a playable character are now less than they were during Brawl or Smash 4, especially since she didn't even appear in Star Fox Zero. With that said, I still support her and in my mind she would be a nice addition to the cast, and has the potential to have a different moveset than the other Star Fox characters, particularly if she uses her staff.

Glad to see her common rallying points are still around, I'd say her chances are still fairly strong, a game series merely needs to be trending as stated earlier for a character get in, she's certainly no Inklings for popularity, nor does she have a meme advantage like Waluigi, but she has a spot that no one else can take, and has a long-standing request since this will mark the third campaign for her, she does have some comparable strength, everyone stay glued for the newcomer trailers that are sure to trickle up to Smash's release.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

We won't know much about how the game's handling newcomers until they show more.

All we have is that Inklings are in and they were firmly in the "stupid not to" category.

Will they focus on new series? Will the ballot shape the roster? Will Sakurai finally cave on Ridley?

No way to know.

 

[ryuu seika]

If he finally caved on Ganondorf I'd be over the moon! Ridley, less so.
IMO, Ridley should be a stage. Players fighting on his back as he flies through the lava tubes, moving about and tilting in a way not too dissimilar to Lylat Cruise.

But Krystal is still, to the best of my knowledge, our only realistic chance for a unique Starfox character. In that sense, her inclusion is at least as important to me as genuine Ganondorf's and probably a good deal more likely.

 

[Smokey21]

We won't know much about how the game's handling newcomers until they show more.

All we have is that Inklings are in and they were firmly in the "stupid not to" category.

Will they focus on new series? Will the ballot shape the roster? Will Sakurai finally cave on Ridley?

No way to know.

Haha yeah I didn't think about that. That is pretty funny, Nintendo trolled us pretty hard there huh. Giving us one of the characters that is thrown around on here as most likely to be in the game and we all kind of expected it because of how well Splatoon as a franchise was doing.

Good questions! I think we can expect them to cater towards the ballot IMHO. I just have a heavy feeling that this is the approach they are going since many people felt like the DLC we got weren't ballot picks but advertising plugs.

If he finally caved on Ganondorf I'd be over the moon! Ridley, less so.
IMO, Ridley should be a stage. Players fighting on his back as he flies through the lava tubes, moving about and tilting in a way not too dissimilar to Lylat Cruise.

But Krystal is still, to the best of my knowledge, our only realistic chance for a unique Starfox character. In that sense, her inclusion is at least as important to me as genuine Ganondorf's and probably a good deal more likely.

But Ridley isn't THAT big even in the Metroid games, I suppose it can be made to work xD. could maybe use some sort of active time event where you have to press buttons in a certain order to not be knocked off or something like that, haha. I am kind of indifferent to the character though, would be happy for his fans to see him make it in the game, but would be ehhh myself about it and I already don't think his chances are very high.

Yeah I want something new for Star Fox in Smash, Krystal definitely fills that role pretty nicely, Wolf was in that position before with his more agressive feeling play-style that he had and how all his moves had power behind them. I thought it was a nice change of pace from the typical spacie play-style that was in the game currently. Having Krystal would be even better especially if they go the staff route with her character in the game. That just has the most interesting potential for her character and I think it would be silly to make her work differently than that. Not saying that she can't be made to be unique still without her staff, just that her staff has the best potential to make her feel unique over the other Star Fox cast.

 

[Gagnetar]

Day 2, hype for smash is naturally still strong and people have been going on twitter to help shout for characters, we should do the same for the fair vixen, try sending tweets to @NintendoAmerica and @NintendoVS for Krystal DLC as these seem like the best places as they'd be the one's listening out for smash requests. Remember just because you can't do much doesn't mean you should do nothing.

Also the rate your chances thread https://smashboards.com/threads/rate-their-chances-switch-edition-day-two-ridley.453357/ is doing krystal on the 19th? I think that's how math works. Not directly meaningful but it might increase discussion of her for us to throw in our opinions there too

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Was pretty active on the Krystal Thread back in the Wii U/3DS days. Still suppprt her, even if she is not as likely as she used to be. The moveset potential with her staff is too good to pass up.

 

[IanTheGamer]

My idea for a Krystal-Wolf dual reveal. We see Fox getting badly beaten by an unknown assailant. *cue Star Wolf theme* , and it's revealed to be Wolf *cue splash screen WOLF Rejoins The Battle*. Then gameplay. Fox makes a call for help, meanwhile aboard the Great Fox we see a familar staff get grabbed. We also see Falco headed down in an Arwing, but he gets passed by another Arwing. And as Wolf is about to land the final blow, it gets blocked by a mysterious figure. We hear a familar British accented voice saying "Fox, leave it to me" *cue splash screen, KRYSTAL Answers The Call* *cue Sauria from Star Fox Assault* *gameplay*

 

[Smokey21]

Day 2, hype for smash is naturally still strong and people have been going on twitter to help shout for characters, we should do the same for the fair vixen, try sending tweets to @NintendoAmerica and @NintendoVS for Krystal DLC as these seem like the best places as they'd be the one's listening out for smash requests. Remember just because you can't do much doesn't mean you should do nothing.

Also the rate your chances thread https://smashboards.com/threads/rate-their-chances-switch-edition-day-two-ridley.453357/ is doing krystal on the 19th? I think that's how math works. Not directly meaningful but it might increase discussion of her for us to throw in our opinions there too

Yeah people are out in force posting what characters they want on Nintendoamerica's twitter page atm. the best move for us atm while the iron's hot, so to speak, is make tweets to @NintendoAmerica, @NintendoUK, @NintendoEurope, @Nintendo, @NintendoVS, especially america/VS while all the buzz is still going on. make sure to note things like her popularity, her staff and other things that make her a nice pick for smash.

My idea for a Krystal-Wolf dual reveal. We see Fox getting badly beaten by an unknown assailant. *cue Star Wolf theme* , and it's revealed to be Wolf *cue splash screen WOLF Rejoins The Battle*. Then gameplay. Fox makes a call for help, meanwhile aboard the Great Fox we see a familar staff get grabbed. We also see Falco headed down in an Arwing, but he gets passed by another Arwing. And as Wolf is about to land the final blow, it gets blocked by a mysterious figure. We hear a familar British accented voice saying "Fox, leave it to me" *cue splash screen, KRYSTAL Answers The Call* *cue Sauria from Star Fox Assault* *gameplay*

I love this idea as someone who misses Wolf as a character as well. A dual reveal trailer would be quite cool and the concept is solid as well. Now lets throw some level ideas on the table for these characters to come with! Sargasso hideout for Wolf obviously with mercenaries as the level gimmick, and Krazoa Palace or Thorntail Hollow or Cape Claw as ideal levels with gimmicks for the stages being either the jellyfish things from Krazoa Palace or Tricky chasing his ball for Thorntail Hollow or an item that makes a bunch of Lightfoot tribes or Sharpclaw tribes attack you in Cape Claw. what do you guys think for level/gimmick ideas?

 

[ryuu seika]

But Ridley isn't THAT big even in the Metroid games, I suppose it can be made to work xD. could maybe use some sort of active time event where you have to press buttons in a certain order to not be knocked off or something like that, haha. I am kind of indifferent to the character though, would be happy for his fans to see him make it in the game, but would be ehhh myself about it and I already don't think his chances are very high.

Ridley is huge enough that, when scaled down to anything remotely like a playable character, he looks ridiculously gangly and fragile. My limited experience of the character puts him FAR closer to what I suggested in scale.

 

[ES. Dinah]

Ah, Krystal has always been one of my top picks as she's my favourite Star Fox character. I'm hoping a new star fox game on switch can help here chances greatly!

 

[Smokey21]

Ridley is huge enough that, when scaled down to anything remotely like a playable character, he looks ridiculously gangly and fragile. My limited experience of the character puts him FAR closer to what I suggested in scale.

I do see what you mean with the "gangly and fragile looking" comment. He looked like that in Smash brothers Crusade where he was playable. Even then his move set was a little awkward in that or that's just how I felt with the character.

 

[DarkKry4]

Krystal has been around for 16 years now and still hasn't been in Smash, but she was close(possibly multiple times through the ballot and almost making it in in Brawl).

its okay to support Krystal and all but this is a blatant lie. Unless you have actual proof for saying she "almost made it multiple times", it seems like a claim made only to make her chances appear bigger than they actually are. Not something based in facts.

Wolf actually barely made it into Smash Brawl. There wasn't even a planned 3rd Star Fox representative from the get go during Brawl's development. They just added him because they had extra time for a last minute clone addition (like Lucina and Dark Pit was in Smash 4)

as for the ballot. There is no official result / raw data released directly from Nintendo that confirms that she was a top runner in the ballot.

Obviously some of the top runners that were officially acknowledged by Nintendo like K Rool and Geno were granted Mii costumes but there was zilch for Krystal, and that was for a reason.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

its okay to support Krystal and all but this is a blatant lie. Unless you have actual proof for saying she "almost made it multiple times", it seems like a claim made only to make her chances appear bigger than they actually are. Not something based in facts.

Wolf actually barely made it into Smash Brawl. There wasn't even a planned 3rd Star Fox representative from the get go during Brawl's development. They just added him because they had extra time for a last minute clone addition (like Lucina and Dark Pit was in Smash 4)

as for the ballot. There is no official result / raw data released directly from Nintendo that confirms that she was a top runner in the ballot.

Obviously some of the top runners that were officially acknowledged by Nintendo like K Rool and Geno were granted Mii costumes but there was zilch for Krystal, and that was for a reason.

"Almost made it" certainly puts it a little bit out of context. Gotta agree with you here. However, we do know that Krystal was at least considered for Brawl. Sakurai knows that she was, and still is a highly requested character. From what I remember, she was the top requested female for Brawl.

As for the ballot, it's possible that they are holding back on the results, so they wouldn't spoil the newcomers for the Switch version. Considering the way this whole thing went down, there just has to be more to it. I think that was their plan all along. Collecting data for the Switch version and maybe even beyond. We'll see what happens.

By the way, it turns out you were wrong about Krystal not being a SF main character, as we now have official confirmation from the "Playing with Super Power" book that was released alongside the SNES Classic. Just sayin'.

 

[Smokey21]

its okay to support Krystal and all but this is a blatant lie. Unless you have actual proof for saying she "almost made it multiple times", it seems like a claim made only to make her chances appear bigger than they actually are. Not something based in facts.

Wolf actually barely made it into Smash Brawl. There wasn't even a planned 3rd Star Fox representative from the get go during Brawl's development. They just added him because they had extra time for a last minute clone addition (like Lucina and Dark Pit was in Smash 4)

as for the ballot. There is no official result / raw data released directly from Nintendo that confirms that she was a top runner in the ballot.

Obviously some of the top runners that were officially acknowledged by Nintendo like K Rool and Geno were granted Mii costumes but there was zilch for Krystal, and that was for a reason.

First off, welcome. Second, I have no idea what the point is of coming in here and taking one sentence I said and saying something like that’s a “blatant lie” and it wasn’t 100% a serious post. It would have been much better to say something like, “that’s not true,”or something along those lines. The verbiage you used is rude and says loads about your character. We know that it was between Krystal and wolf and he was chosen simply because there was a framework in place to make the character in a much quicker and efficient manner and that’s what it always will end up coming down to in development... quickness and efficiency. So the thought that it came down to those 2 = close imo or do you want me to go back to my post and put some imo tags in it because of your insecurity. And as for the ballot, I’ll throw you a bone there but only half of one, because... simply put. Nobody knows for a fact who was high up on that besides the select few that were acknowledged.

 

[Gagnetar]

Found something pretty amusing, Glidewell appears to have an old myspace account and it appears to show her location, any guesses? Redmond, WA, now naturally there's no evidence it's been used in quite some time because it's myspace but I created a myspace account just to see if the location was automatic, and it found my location without me even giving it to it, setting that as my current location, nothing to really believe in, but there's a very tiny fringe chance that she has some kind of myspace app and maybe the app updates her location automatically, she's also been inactive on her twitter for about a month, could you imagine if she was up there doing voice work? the way to tell will be to see if it updates her location again at some point

Anyhoo maybe with all the smash stuff going on, Smashified will get their **** together and release those smashified t-shirts.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

What will be interesting is perhaps after this game is released, we'll be able to see the full ballot.

Who wants to bet the top choice in the US was Shrek?

 

[ryuu seika]

...a blatant lie
...
a last minute clone addition (like Lucina and Dark Pit was in Smash 4)...

Oh look, hypocracy. Dark Pit and Lucina were costumes intended from the beginning that naturally evolved into clones due to Sakurai's desire for unique properties to be added.

 

[slambros]

Here's why I think Krystal's inclusion would be groundbreaking for the Star Fox franchise.

Think about the Mario and Zelda franchises. Both of them have Smash representatives that the majority of the other franchises do not have (at this time): female supporting characters such as Peach and Zelda. And the thing is, including such a character helps to diversify the type of characters that people playing a Smash game think a certain franchise has to offer. When Lucina joined Marth and Ike, and when Palutena joined Pit, and when Rosalina joined the rest of the Mario cast, the character 'pool' of those franchises diversified in the eyes of the Smash players who many not know much about those specific franchises, who may want to try out those franchises.

There are many franchises that could use such diversification. This list includes the Donkey Kong, Metroid, Mother, Xenoblade, and Star Fox franchises. When characters that are inexplicably different from Donkey Kong or Samus or Ness or Shulk or Fox enter the fray, the character 'pool' now psychologically affects the player, making those franchises seem much grander in scale, much bigger than they were before.

So here's what I believe, and here's why I support Krystal. The character would not only have a unique playstyle that sets her apart from Fox, Falco, and Wolf... she would offer an inexplicably different type of character than Fox, Falco, and Wolf, being a supporting female character in the vein of the aforementioned Peach, Zelda, Lucina, Palutena, and Rosalina.

So if Nintendo still wants to makes games in the Star Fox franchise, it is their duty to use Smash as a platform by diversifying the selection of Star Fox characters. And Krystal fits the potential bill for such diversification in spades.

 

[ryuu seika]

While your particular take on why diversity is good for the included series' is an interesting and believable one, slambros , I would like to point out a flaw in it: Lucina brings nothing new to the perception of the Fire Emblem series. Not even the idea that the games contain female characters, since Marth was mistaken for one already.

 

[DarkKry4]

we do know that Krystal was at least considered for Brawl.

i already read that interview and no where does it say she was "considered". The interviewer inserted Krystals name about why Wolf was chosen over her.

and after being pegged for more details. Sakurai simply gave a hypothetical situation about Wolf being easier to implement compared to her.

there was even shade thrown, comparing her non-inclusion to Baby Peach, Waddle Dee, and Dry Bones.

big difference. Know context.

Neither Wolf or Krystal were planned for Brawl in the beginning. If she was genuinely considered (given his statement about the bigger amount of work to create her model from scratch), she'd have already been considered at the START of development. DUH.

They had extra time added at the end of development due to the inclusion of Sonic. Krystal wasn't even in their mindset when they quickly took a Falco/Fox model and polished it into a different character in the little time they had. They obviously wasn't going to push the game back just to make a new model for a secondary character (they would for Sonic though, a iconic gaming character)

There were no Star Fox characters being planned at the start of the game. It amazes me that yall would ignore that fact but boldly claim she almost made it in just because Sakurai was asked about her.

 

[Gagnetar]

i already read that interview and no where does it say she was "considered". The interviewer inserted Krystals name about why Wolf was chosen over her.

and after being pegged for more details. Sakurai simply gave a hypothetical reason about Wolf being easier to implement compared to her.

there was even shade thrown, comparing her non-inclusion to Baby Peach, Waddle Dee, and Dry Bones.

big difference. Know context.

Neither Wolf or Krystal were planned for Brawl in the beginning. If she was genuinely considered (given his statement about the bigger amount of work to create her model from scratch), she'd have already been considered at the START of development. DUH.

They had extra time added at the end of development due to the inclusion of Sonic. Krystal wasn't even in their mindset when they quickly took a Falco/Fox model and polished it into a different character in the little time they had. They obviously wasn't going to push the game back just to make a new model for a secondary character (they would for Sonic though, a iconic gaming character)

There were no Star Fox characters being planned at the start of the game. It amazes me that yall would ignore that fact but boldly claim she almost made it in just because Sakurai was asked about her.

You're right that no Star Fox character was planned from the beginning, it's clear since Wolf didn't make it into Subspace, also for him to even make that opinion of Krystal saying they didn't know how to model her means that he had to atleast think about her, it's pretty selective of you though to imply that he was "throwing shade" at krystal and then selectively ignore the implication that she was considered for smash. there's nothing to suggest that they had to be planned the beginning to make it, just that Star Fox itself was not a first thought when determining the roster.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

You're right that no Star Fox character was planned from the beginning, it's clear since Wolf didn't make it into Subspace, also for him to even make that opinion of Krystal saying they didn't know how to model her means that he had to atleast think about her, it's pretty selective of you though to imply that he was "throwing shade" at krystal and then selectively ignore the implication that she was considered for smash. there's nothing to suggest that they had to be planned the beginning to make it, just that Star Fox itself was not a first thought when determining the roster.

Don't you see? It's far more likely that Sakurai quickly came up with a "hypothetical situation" (in other words: telling a lie), instead of giving an actual reason, thus telling the truth. They would rather accuse Sakurai of being a liar than admit the idea of adding Krystal at least popped into his head at one point. Of course, we don't know if it ever was a serious idea to begin with, nor do we know how long it actually stayed in his head. That's why "almost made it" and "was never considered" are both wrong. It was probably something in-between the two.

But you know, it doesn't matter what happened back then. The fact is, she still hasn't made it. That's why we're here and there's nothing wrong with that. Keep fighting!

 

[Smokey21]

A little late to the party again I see. Sorry been busy! haha

What will be interesting is perhaps after this game is released, we'll be able to see the full ballot.

Who wants to bet the top choice in the US was Shrek?

If this happened it would definitely be hilarious... lol.

Here's why I think Krystal's inclusion would be groundbreaking for the Star Fox franchise.

Think about the Mario and Zelda franchises. Both of them have Smash representatives that the majority of the other franchises do not have (at this time): female supporting characters such as Peach and Zelda. And the thing is, including such a character helps to diversify the type of characters that people playing a Smash game think a certain franchise has to offer. When Lucina joined Marth and Ike, and when Palutena joined Pit, and when Rosalina joined the rest of the Mario cast, the character 'pool' of those franchises diversified in the eyes of the Smash players who many not know much about those specific franchises, who may want to try out those franchises.

There are many franchises that could use such diversification. This list includes the Donkey Kong, Metroid, Mother, Xenoblade, and Star Fox franchises. When characters that are inexplicably different from Donkey Kong or Samus or Ness or Shulk or Fox enter the fray, the character 'pool' now psychologically affects the player, making those franchises seem much grander in scale, much bigger than they were before.

So here's what I believe, and here's why I support Krystal. The character would not only have a unique playstyle that sets her apart from Fox, Falco, and Wolf... she would offer an inexplicably different type of character than Fox, Falco, and Wolf, being a supporting female character in the vein of the aforementioned Peach, Zelda, Lucina, Palutena, and Rosalina.

So if Nintendo still wants to makes games in the Star Fox franchise, it is their duty to use Smash as a platform by diversifying the selection of Star Fox characters. And Krystal fits the potential bill for such diversification in spades.

This is an interesting view on diversity of characters slambros . I just hope that Nintendo wants to try to salvage Star Fox at this point by including interesting Star Fox characters and Krystal does make the most sense as a highly requested character with interesting move set potential.

As for Metroid and Donkey Kong, They would benefit from having characters like dixie or King K rool in the game dixie being the female team member and K rool being the most well known villain of the franchise. As for metroid I think Sylux was brought up at some point in this thread and we don't know if Sylux is the big baddie of Metroid Prime 4 and may end up in smash as well, I think that would be a good pick for Metroid as well and probably more likely than Ridley at this point. I don't know enough about Xenoblade to add any fruitful conversation to that yet.

Lucina brings nothing new to the perception of the Fire Emblem series. Not even the idea that the games contain female characters, since Marth was mistaken for one already.

I lol'd. Thanks ryuu seika hahaha

 

[Gagnetar]

Krystal does certainly help balance out SF's sausage fest in the roster, Generally a character needs to be able to be advertised to a game, but Krystal was certainly the most requested female back then, She's still a popular request in that regard, I doubt that's enough of a reason to pick her but It doesn't hurt to have, it's not her only merit either. So my hope is that at E3 they announce a new SF title marked for it's 25th anniversary because they're just handing out game titles, it's not like they didn't just do it with smash and prime 4, which I think I already said, but then after or before that announcement they have a dual trailer for Wolf and Krystal, I mean not including one or the other will insight the rage of the other supporters, and thinking of one brings the other. It's also a particularly special case because Wolf's data exists, it shouldn't be too substantially difficult to port him from Brawl to the upgraded Smash 4/5 engine that Smash 6 is gonna be on, It's not like mewtwo who was on melee and his data was unusable or so I here. They can't afford to be half-assing character picks, It is of course hard to decide which characters they view as important and what exact polling data they have, but Star Fox is still first-party property, I'm sure that during Smash 4, much like it was in Brawl that it was considered late in development, instead of making the cut, wolf was merely excluded, the listing that Tort mentioned way back has it starting as far back as april 2014, which amusingly is when XC2 was in development so expect Rex & Pyra, no complaints there, then the ballot occured in 2015 and then at that point in the middle of it or so they started to finalize the roster pick, that would mean no basis on an anniversary title which would mean that the character pick may be limited to just Wolf, as Zero was in development, with likely no mention of a 25th anniversary title, that doesn't mean she couldn't have been a ballot pick however when they considered SF reps, and she can still make DLC if we get a new SF title to tag with it. Also I found this quote which definitely means they held back with Smash 4/5 DLC
Sakurai: At the same time, if we were to keep adding popular characters to Smash as DLC, we’d eat up IPs in no time flat. Moreover, people’s “shock and awe” would gradually start to fade. If at some point in the future we had 100 characters in Smash, adding the 101st character wouldn’t have the same impact as new fighters have had up until now. In that sense, I feel now is the perfect time to close the curtains on development.
This smash is likely going to be amazing, also hope you're ready sakurai because expect a great DLC cycle lol.

 

[SethTheMage]

Still support Krystal, even if she might have less of a chance then before. Her staff gives her plenty of room for an interesting moveset, and I've always liked her as a character (aside from Command). I just dunno if she is even relevant anymore, given that SF0 was a reboot. I wish she'd return in the SF series, and they base her off of what she was like in Assault. I miss her.

 

[XeVioN]

Damn I'm just really surprised there is a new Smash coming already and its coming this year.

Once again I'll be supporting this character for this generation Smash bros. I already got pretty much almost every character I can want on the game, while there are still plenty of great possible new characters I only really need Krystal as a playable character.

Also anybody has any thoughts on that trailer they showed? It certainly wasen't nearly as epic as Brawl or Sm4sh reveal videos.

Seeing all thouse silhouettes and the burning symbol and... the darkness... It kinda looked as if the inklings were beginning some sort initiation ritual for some evil cult I mean even Mario looked evil.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

I just dunno if she is even relevant anymore, given that SF0 was a reboot. I wish she'd return in the SF series, and they base her off of what she was like in Assault. I miss her.

SF Zero isn't a reboot, though. They officially labeled it a "reimagining", meaning that the 64 timeline wasn't negated and is still canon. They also mentioned Sauria in "The Battle Begins", and c'mon, we cannot have Sauria without Krystal and Tricky, can we? Then there is the Tweet from Hashimoto as well as the "Playing with Super Power" book that was released last year. The latter even confirmed her as a SF main character. All these things wouldn't have been done if Nintendo really wanted to get rid of her.

Yep, Assault had Krystal at her best (so far). That's the role I want to see her in once again. This time, however, they should flesh her out by telling us more about her Cerinian origins, abilities etc. That's something the entire series could benefit from, especially when it comes to Cerinia and worldbuilding. Needless to say that I don't want to see Command-Krystal again

 

[TheRandomCities4]

SF Zero isn't a reboot, though. They officially labeled it a "reimagining", meaning that the 64 timeline wasn't negated and is still canon. They also mentioned Sauria in "The Battle Begins", and c'mon, we cannot have Sauria without Krystal and Tricky, can we? Then there is the Tweet from Hashimoto as well as the "Playing with Super Power" book that was released last year. The latter even confirmed her as a SF main character. All these things wouldn't have been done if Nintendo really wanted to get rid of her.

Yep, Assault had Krystal at her best (so far). That's the role I want to see her in once again. This time, however, they should flesh her out by telling us more about her Cerinian origins, abilities etc. That's something the entire series could benefit from, especially when it comes to Cerinia and worldbuilding. Needless to say that I don't want to see Command-Krystal again

You. I like your eloquence and clarity. I can struggle with that from time to time. I wholeheartedly agree with your aspirations regarding the potential of Star Fox as a series, and what could/should happen with characters like Krystal. I'm not a big supporter of Krystal or Star Fox in terms of what they have been, but rather of what they could be. You could say that I enjoy "scouting for potential", like what happens in American professional football.

However, I must disagree with some elements in your first paragraph.

I've done some thinking since Smash 4. I don't believe I adhere to the notion of "game developers sticking to particular ideas or stories" as strongly as I used to. I used to get so worked up about certain developmental choices or what certain important game developers may have said about their games (take the issue at hand [Krystal and Smash] for example). There's plenty evidence of my vocalness on the old Krystal thread during Smash 4's speculation era.

My personal opinion is that developers can say many things, but ultimately decide to do something completely different. It doesn't even have to be in the case of "damage control". The "word" isn't always final, no matter how it may seem otherwise.

In other words, games sort of just "are" what they are. It's case-by-case, and anything can change in-between "here" and "there".

For instance, whether SF0 was a "reimagining" or a "reboot" doesn't matter. New developers could come down the line and decide to take a completely new, perhaps unexpected, approach (no matter how many times something like SF 64's story has been revisited). Alternatively, the older developers could decide to spin their games in a completely different direction (even in the face of some fans, like myself, who have once been so convinced otherwise deep-down). Even if, hypothetically, a game sells poorly (much like the recent additions to the Star Fox series), someone else could decide to pick up the series again, dust it off, and give it another try. There's no definitive "end" for it all (which, I think, is ultimately good for characters like Krystal and King K. Rool).

Someone could revive a 3-decade old series out of the blue, or a well-known and adored CEO/developer may sadly pass away, leaving their seat for someone new to take the reins--thus paving the way for new decisions to be made.

We've seen these sorts of things happen, yet we had no expectations thereof.

I believe this applies to both sides of the argument concerning Krystal. We could chat up a storm about whether Krystal was considered for Brawl or retconned from the Star Fox series, but our only points of reference are those of the past and present--not the future.

Please do not misunderstand. I'm not implying that our speculation on what the future holds is pointless--just the opposite. Indeed there are trends from the past or present that indicate what may occur in the future, but room for new twists--like extraneous variables in an experiment--are always a possibility. On top of that, our continued discussion allows for new connections between people to be made, and aids in digesting new information or hashing out complicated thoughts on the stuff we enjoy and share.

I have a lot more to say, particularly regarding the difference in circumstances surrounding Smash 5 compared to Smash 4 (especially with how they relate to Krystal)--but that can wait for future posts.

Apologies for being a bit long-winded. It's just my thought process. I enjoy talking about all kinds of different things that may apply to particular topics. The discussion is fun.

tl;dr:

While characters like Krystal aren't in the best of "positions" going into Smash 5, anything could happen between "here" (post-reveal) and "there" (when the game is released, or if DLC becomes a thing). If we assume one way or the other, we may very well get caught off-guard.

I'm just going to try to enjoy this "train" ride more than last time. I feel like I missed a lot of the "scenery" with how vocal I was during Smash 4's speculation era.

 

[TheCynicalCdr]

I really dont mean to double post, but just because I got my hands on it, I got the Playing with Super Power book that released with the SNES Classic and guess what?

THAT'S RIGHT!!
Krystal totally got mentioned, from the way this sounds she's just fine as we all thought.
View attachment 133130 View attachment 133131 View attachment 133132

Just in case anyone tries to imply she isnt canon anymore, Zero being a reboot, or whatever.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]

You. I like your eloquence and clarity. I can struggle with that from time to time. I wholeheartedly agree with your aspirations regarding the potential of Star Fox as a series, and what could/should happen with characters like Krystal. I'm not a big supporter of Krystal or Star Fox in terms of what they have been, but rather of what they could be. You could say that I enjoy "scouting for potential", like what happens in American professional football.

However, I must disagree with some elements in your first paragraph.

I've done some thinking since Smash 4. I don't believe I adhere to the notion of "game developers sticking to particular ideas or stories" as strongly as I used to. I used to get so worked up about certain developmental choices or what certain important game developers may have said about their games (take the issue at hand [Krystal and Smash] for example). There's plenty evidence of my vocalness on the old Krystal thread during Smash 4's speculation era.

My personal opinion is that developers can say many things, but ultimately decide to do something completely different. It doesn't even have to be in the case of "damage control". The "word" isn't always final, no matter how it may seem otherwise.

In other words, games sort of just "are" what they are. It's case-by-case, and anything can change in-between "here" and "there".

For instance, whether SF0 was a "reimagining" or a "reboot" doesn't matter. New developers could come down the line and decide to take a completely new, perhaps unexpected, approach (no matter how many times something like SF 64's story has been revisited). Alternatively, the older developers could decide to spin their games in a completely different direction (even in the face of some fans, like myself, who have once been so convinced otherwise deep-down). Even if, hypothetically, a game sells poorly (much like the recent additions to the Star Fox series), someone else could decide to pick up the series again, dust it off, and give it another try. There's no definitive "end" for it all (which, I think, is ultimately good for characters like Krystal and King K. Rool).

Someone could revive a 3-decade old series out of the blue, or a well-known and adored CEO/developer may sadly pass away, leaving their seat for someone new to take the reins--thus paving the way for new decisions to be made.

We've seen these sorts of things happen, yet we had no expectations thereof.

I believe this applies to both sides of the argument concerning Krystal. We could chat up a storm about whether Krystal was considered for Brawl or retconned from the Star Fox series, but our only points of reference are those of the past and present--not the future.

Please do not misunderstand. I'm not implying that our speculation on what the future holds is pointless--just the opposite. Indeed there are trends from the past or present that indicate what may occur in the future, but room for new twists--like extraneous variables in an experiment--are always a possibility. On top of that, our continued discussion allows for new connections between people to be made, and aids in digesting new information or hashing out complicated thoughts on the stuff we enjoy and share.

I have a lot more to say, particularly regarding the difference in circumstances surrounding Smash 5 compared to Smash 4 (especially with how they relate to Krystal)--but that can wait for future posts.

Apologies for being a bit long-winded. It's just my thought process. I enjoy talking about all kinds of different things that may apply to particular topics. The discussion is fun.

tl;dr:

While characters like Krystal aren't in the best of "positions" going into Smash 5, anything could happen between "here" (post-reveal) and "there" (when the game is released, or if DLC becomes a thing). If we assume one way or the other, we may very well get caught off-guard.

I'm just going to try to enjoy this "train" ride more than last time. I feel like I missed a lot of the "scenery" with how vocal I was during Smash 4's speculation era.

Wow, I wasn't expecting such a detailed response. I know what you mean, though. You never know what's really going to happen at the end of the day. That's exactly what makes this ride fun but scary at the same time. With Miyamoto, it's always unpredictable. I don't think he cares too much about canon and continuity, definitely not as much as we do. What I'm saying is that, right now, I don't see any indication of Nintendo getting rid of Krystal. In fact, it's actually the opposite. Her being mentioned in the book was certainly unexpected, but what really surprised me was the way they mentioned her. The thing is, they keep reminding us of her. If they really want to get rid of her, they're doing a terrible job

As for SF Zero, it's still a possibility that they'll come out and officially label it a reboot at some point. You never know. But, as of now, we can only go by the things that were officially said (Zero = reimagining). Of course, we can assume things based on stuff that's happened in the past, but then you might ask: Has Nintendo ever gotten rid of such a popular and requested (main) character? And by that I mean completely removing the character from existence. This is about common sense. Despite some of the questionable decisions they made (especially with Star Fox), I don't think they would really go that far. I mean, what would they hope to gain from it? Getting rid of a main character can only end up badly. Not to mention that it would be unprecedented. So even if Zero rebooted the whole thing, I'm fairly certain they'll reintroduce Krystal. I mean, they already started with Sauria. Another important aspect are Zero's poor sales (worst selling SF game). My theory was that they didn't label the game a reboot because they first wanted to see how the game does before determining its purpose. Now that it failed, they should think twice about it, because this is not how you want to reboot a series. Either way, it's up to them, not us. For all we know, the next game might even be a sequel to Command.

Also, how is Krystal not appearing in Zero an indication that Nintendo is getting rid of her anyway? It's only logical that she'd be absent. Zero tells us yet another version of the Lylat Wars. Krystal is 11 years old at that point. So why would she be in the game when she didn't appear in the original? If we go by that, we can also say that Nintendo is getting rid of Panther (and some others as well). Yet no one is saying that. They only talk about Krystal because they hate her. They want her gone. That's why they keep pushing this narrative about Zero. Part of me is actually happy that she didn't appear in the game because they would have blamed its failure on her again. Now it seems like at least some of them realized that she was never at fault to begin with. From what I've seen, it's even possible that she could've made Zero actually do better, as some people specifically stated that they didn't buy the game because she was not in it. Quite ironic, huh?

Lastly, I totally agree about the potential of the SF series. That's probably the reason I became a fan in the first place. What fascinated me the most about the series was never so much the gameplay, but rather the unique characters, storyline and pretty much the entire SF universe. And I just think that Krystal and her backstory can take the lore to a whole new level. It's pretty easy to tie Cerinia in to the series by establishing certain connections (to Sauria and Venom, for instance), to the point where we would have actual worldbuilding.

Anyway, I'm definitely excited to see what's next for SF & Krystal and I can say that, so far, I've met lots of great people on this journey. And remember, as long as we keep supporting her, she'll never die...

 

[TheCynicalCdr]

Im just pointing this out to everyone.

https://twitter.com/FiveSmash/status/973342490278465541

 

[smashkirby]

Still hoping for Krystal!

 

[Smokey21]

Krystal does certainly help balance out SF's sausage fest in the roster, Generally a character needs to be able to be advertised to a game, but Krystal was certainly the most requested female back then, She's still a popular request in that regard, I doubt that's enough of a reason to pick her but It doesn't hurt to have, it's not her only merit either. So my hope is that at E3 they announce a new SF title marked for it's 25th anniversary because they're just handing out game titles, it's not like they didn't just do it with smash and prime 4, which I think I already said, but then after or before that announcement they have a dual trailer for Wolf and Krystal, I mean not including one or the other will insight the rage of the other supporters, and thinking of one brings the other. It's also a particularly special case because Wolf's data exists, it shouldn't be too substantially difficult to port him from Brawl to the upgraded Smash 4/5 engine that Smash 6 is gonna be on, It's not like mewtwo who was on melee and his data was unusable or so I here. They can't afford to be half-assing character picks, It is of course hard to decide which characters they view as important and what exact polling data they have, but Star Fox is still first-party property, I'm sure that during Smash 4, much like it was in Brawl that it was considered late in development, instead of making the cut, wolf was merely excluded, the listing that Tort mentioned way back has it starting as far back as april 2014, which amusingly is when XC2 was in development so expect Rex & Pyra, no complaints there, then the ballot occured in 2015 and then at that point in the middle of it or so they started to finalize the roster pick, that would mean no basis on an anniversary title which would mean that the character pick may be limited to just Wolf, as Zero was in development, with likely no mention of a 25th anniversary title, that doesn't mean she couldn't have been a ballot pick however when they considered SF reps, and she can still make DLC if we get a new SF title to tag with it. Also I found this quote which definitely means they held back with Smash 4/5 DLC
Sakurai: At the same time, if we were to keep adding popular characters to Smash as DLC, we’d eat up IPs in no time flat. Moreover, people’s “shock and awe” would gradually start to fade. If at some point in the future we had 100 characters in Smash, adding the 101st character wouldn’t have the same impact as new fighters have had up until now. In that sense, I feel now is the perfect time to close the curtains on development.
This smash is likely going to be amazing, also hope you're ready sakurai because expect a great DLC cycle lol.

That's an interesting outlook on that interview, but what if it meant that he was saying that they were done adding characters with Smash 4/5, not saying that's what he means but just as a what if scenario. I still think it would be silly not to at least look at the popular ballot picks for introductory characters to this newest installment of Smash bros and hopefully Krystal is up high enough to make it in this initial launch of Smash brothers on the switch. I guess we will see over the next few months or at E3 what he actually meant in this interview when he said, "close the curtains on development."

Damn I'm just really surprised there is a new Smash coming already and its coming this year.

Once again I'll be supporting this character for this generation Smash bros. I already got pretty much almost every character I can want on the game, while there are still plenty of great possible new characters I only really need Krystal as a playable character.

Also anybody has any thoughts on that trailer they showed? It certainly wasen't nearly as epic as Brawl or Sm4sh reveal videos.

Seeing all thouse silhouettes and the burning symbol and... the darkness... It kinda looked as if the inklings were beginning some sort initiation ritual for some evil cult I mean even Mario looked evil.

Hey! Good to see a familiar face back in action! XeVioN

I know right? I am pumped Smash and Metroid are two games that would have got me to go out and buy a Switch and now they're both coming to switch. Hopefully Krystal makes it into the game because that would be an awesome added bonus for us. As for the trailer... I think they did a pretty good job with it, they didn't really spoil anything by telling us that inklings were going to be added to it, most people assumed that inklings were going to make it for a while now. I suppose blacking out faces into a silhouette would make almost anyone look evil if mario looked that way hahaha. I wonder if BoTW link is going to have a new move set or if he is just a reskin for link.

Im just pointing this out to everyone.

https://twitter.com/FiveSmash/status/973342490278465541

Great find! Retweeted/liked! ^^

 

[SethTheMage]

SF Zero isn't a reboot, though. They officially labeled it a "reimagining", meaning that the 64 timeline wasn't negated and is still canon. They also mentioned Sauria in "The Battle Begins", and c'mon, we cannot have Sauria without Krystal and Tricky, can we? Then there is the Tweet from Hashimoto as well as the "Playing with Super Power" book that was released last year. The latter even confirmed her as a SF main character. All these things wouldn't have been done if Nintendo really wanted to get rid of her.

Yep, Assault had Krystal at her best (so far). That's the role I want to see her in once again. This time, however, they should flesh her out by telling us more about her Cerinian origins, abilities etc. That's something the entire series could benefit from, especially when it comes to Cerinia and worldbuilding. Needless to say that I don't want to see Command-Krystal again

Just in case anyone tries to imply she isnt canon anymore, Zero being a reboot, or whatever.

Thanks for pointing that out to me; I didn't know they said that about her, or that SF0 wasn't a reboot. Guess she's about as likely as she was before Smash 4. I'm more optimistic about her inclusion now.

 

[IanTheGamer]

Regarding Zero, I didn't buy it because it was taking the series backwards, and in the game industry taking things backwards rarely works. You can't release a 2 hour game in stores for $40-$60 in 2017, nobody will buy a rip off like that

 

[pupNapoleon]

I used to really want Krystal in Smash. She was in my top Seven for Brawl (which was near the end of the reveals, not before the majority of the characters got in).

But then again, the others I remember from that list were K Rool, Toad, Tom Nook, and Isaac. So my desires did not quite mesh with Sakurai's.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Krystal, along with Ridley, a playable Toad, and basically every DK character have had the "honor" of been on the wish list for like 12+ years now. Still, Bowser Jr. got in after so long and semi-credible Ridley rumors are spinning once again so you never know.

 

[Gagnetar]

This about the smash brothers to start dishing out fan-favorites, they mentioned wanting to with hold characters during the DLC cycle, perhaps that's part of why it felt like there was a lot of characters that didn't make it in. If they want switch to be a strong as they seem to be gearing towards, especially with their esports focus you're going to want a bunch of long-term fan requests as market trend picks may appeal the most to the average joe, esports dudes will want more desire picks, and surprisingly Krystal fits that bill as one of the character choices.