Team Fortress 2: Highlander {Availability/Scheduling}

[F8AL]

I'd prefer it if everyone in this was from SWF.

 

[Krynxe]

Yeah I agree, I'd really have to hate to cut out a class from a highlander though. Gets rid of that feng shui lol

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Another alternative is to have three six-member non-competitive-setup teams?

 

[Deleted member]

Another alternative is to have three six-member non-competitive-setup teams?

It'd really depend on which classes would have to be represented in each team.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

It'd really depend on which classes would have to be represented in each team.

Yeah, hence why I'd rather just have two pseudo-Highlander teams of eight. Now it depends on which class we remove.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, I'd go for either that or the nine-player teams, if possible.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I just don't know how long to wait around for if we do, because the two people that could potentially fill this--Howler Leech and M@v--don't appear to be interested, so.

 

[Krynxe]

Since it's the standard format for competitive play, I'd be more than happy to do some 6v6's. (If so, I'd want to play Demoman.) Plus, it's not like we're stuck on whatever format we play. We can do a 6v6 (3 teams) or an 8v8 for now, and after a few games more people might be interested and we'll have enough for a new format.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Yeah definitely. That said, I'm pushing for 8v8 to kick this off. Thoughts?

 

[Krynxe]

I'm fine with that, but don't we only have 15 people?

As for a ruleset, I think it should just be a class limit of 1, whichever class is unused is up to the team. How about, any player may switch to the unused class during the match if they want to. (But this might be bad because for instance if I went to the open sniper class, I wouldn't want someone to prevent me from going back to heavy by switching to it. So either stick with only your class or the one that started off open, or no going other peoples' classes without permission?)

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I counted 16 players in the OP, buddy. :3

Class limit of one works easily, and the second situation you brought up is easily managed with team communication, so I don't think switching up is going to be a major issue.

 

[Krynxe]

I was too lazy to actually check the op lol. Cool though, so long as people are willing to communicate and everything. Hopefully everyone who has a mic will be willing to use it.

 

[Smashjin]

I'm gonna try and get my friend to join again.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I think we should kick off the tentative 8v8 soon, so let's get into discussion about the game styles and anything like that.

King Of The Hill? Payload? Etc.

 

[F8AL]

King of The Hill sounds good to me.

 

[Krynxe]

I'm a huge advocate of arena, because of the whole having to take your life seriously deal. I think arena highlander is as close as it gets to that ideal tf2 match, it'd be fun to try at least once. The next best thing is 5cp or koth, maybe ctf.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I actually think maybe something like KOTH / 5CP to start off, and then maybe transition into Arena and then further into other styles like Payload or CtF.

 

[Krynxe]

To be honest I feel like attack/defend game modes might be a little bad in the sense that players who are stuck to their class will be forced to play in conditions where their class generally does much poorer. (In mind I'm thinking defense oriented classes like sniper trying to play offense well, or offensive characters like scout trying to be useful in defense.) Though all classes can very much benefit either team, to what degree is what's notable. Essentially what I mean is that in other game modes each class can play their roll to benefit their team the way they wish, whereas in attack/defend game modes you have to play your class a certain way to be useful. This excludes 5cp because both teams are offending and defending simultaneously, and koth is sort of iffy about this but I still think it's a more than acceptable game mode.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I think we're generally in agreement on like.

[Acceptable.] King Of The Hill, Control Points
[Debatable.] Payload, Capture The Flag
[No. Just, no.] Attack / Defense, Payload Race

 

[Krynxe]

Seems good. Where does arena stand?

Also, anybody considering custom maps if they're good? I'm for them, idk if people are willing to play on maps they might have never seen before though.

 

[Smashjin]

I like KoTH and Payload generally.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I guess Arena would be under debatable since I'd like to try the "standard" Highlander stuff first.

 

[Isatis]

I'd honestly either go for KoTH or Payload.

 

[UltiMario]

CP is easily the best format, but it takes ****ing forever sometimes.

KOTH is a good second choice, and lasts a reasonable amount of time.

 

[F8AL]

Yeah, normally I'd pick CP but it'd take forever if both teams are equally skilled or whatever.

Something with a set time limit would be ideal IMO.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I think we're generally in agreement about KOTH and then subsequently 5CP and Payload, so we should move forward with a little bit more item discussion while figuring out how we should let the Captains assemble teams...

 

[Krynxe]

I actually think attack/defend and 5cp especially are really bad when one team is doing better. Like with KOTH you still have 3 minutes after they cap to do something, and payload already takes time to bring the cart to the enemy base even with a good team. Tery saw me play 5cp and just bomb rush through and win in like a minute haha. It's not very hard with disorganized teams if you can win the mid fight and rush the next point as they're respawning. CTF isn't bad, I think it's one of the better gamemodes for this actually because defense oriented classes can have fun doing their job and offense oriented classes the same. So long as capture crits are disabled, because those are just stupid. There shouldn't be extra reward for doing your objective, and it's so stupidly unfair to be down a point and then get crit rushed be the whole other team and get your flag taken again. Also, are we going to stick with default respawn time or shorten/lengthen it?

tl;dr koth/ctf > payload > atk.def/5cp

 

[UltiMario]

5CP is only bad if one side is really really good and the other is really really bad. Otherwise, it's easily the best game mode. Don't know what you're smoking lol.

CTF with even sides makes 5CP look like a quick sprint. Some games on servers can take several hours to get all three captures. That's the absolute LAST sort of thing we need.

 

[Atrem]

I'm interested in joining.

Steam ID: Atrem6
Time zone: EST

I mostly play Soldier, but I'm comfortable with (in no particular order) Medic, Demoman, and Engineer. Pyro too if I'm not expected to be godlike with the Axetinguisher. If I had to pick a main though, Soldier.

Also, please don't judge me, I don't have hats

 

[Smashjin]

I'm interested in joining.

Steam ID: Atrem6
Time zone: EST

I mostly play Soldier, but I'm comfortable with Medic, Demoman, and Engineer. Pyro too if I'm not expected to be godlike with the Axetinguisher.

Also, please don't judge me, I don't have hats

Awwww yeah, there he is.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Well then. Now we have to find one more lovely soul to join! :3

 

[Krynxe]

5CP is only bad if one side is really really good and the other is really really bad. Otherwise, it's easily the best game mode. Don't know what you're smoking lol.

CTF with even sides makes 5CP look like a quick sprint. Some games on servers can take several hours to get all three captures. That's the absolute LAST sort of thing we need.

I actually think attack/defend and 5cp especially are really bad when one team is doing better.

Also, CTF has a time limit. Iiirc, either the team that has more captures in that time wins (sudden death if tied) or it just always goes sudden death unless one team gets all the captures. Either way, those kinds of ctf games only last that long on servers that up the time to like 99999 hours with really well balanced teams, which isn't common. I do see your point though, but I don't think time is a big issue. KOTH is probably the way to go, that and arena.

Also, great to have you Atrem. You need hats to play with us though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEzd-pW4OBQ

Spoiler

jk hats are for scrubs but I still wear them cause they get me more medicz

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Do we have a list of banned items for this tournament?

 

[Deleted member]

iirc only ambassdor+dead ringer or something.

also I demand 5CP

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Well, I might think about joining:

Steam ID: outnuendo (yeah, I know it has absolutley nothing to do with DH)
Time Zone: EST
Main: Soldier
Secondary: Heavy, Pyro
Comfortable: Medic, Engy, Scout
Uncomfortable: Demo, Sniper, Spy

 

[Deleted member]

We're at eighteen.

Yes.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

We have eighteen! Currently, this is how everything stands.

Teams
- Each class is represented once.
- Switching classes mid-game is allowed.

Items
- Full item set bonuses are banned, if you plan on using those either forfeit one of the weapons or the hat.
- The Enforcer and Dead Ringer are mutually exclusive. You can only use one or the other.

Style
- We'll start with KOTH / 5CP.
- We'll look into CTF / Payload / Arena.
- We'll (probably) never do AD / Payload Race.

I will be updating the spreadsheet for the captains, but let me know what you think of what I have so far. Also, we still need an effective way to build teams.

 

[Atrem]

Since I'm new to this thread I was wondering a few things

Do we have our own server for this?

If we do, do we have some of the custom maps designed for more competitive play?

CTF itself isn't a terrible mode but most of the Valve maps for it aren't entirely well designed. There is Turbine Pro though, which fixes some of the major issues of regular Turbine and I've seen it played competitively pretty often. There are also plenty of PL maps that I've seen played competitively, but once again most Valve maps aren't particularly incredible for it. One of the examples for a good PL map would be Swiftwater.

Also I'm not entirely sure I understand the logic in banning the Dead Ringer. Enforcer, yes, it is a highly broken gun. I can see banning that. Dead Ringer, however, especially in games where there's one class per team, I don't see it being that big of an issue. Unless someone's only using it to hide and abuse time limits, but why would they be playing competitively in that case?

And yeah, my opinion on the other game modes is pretty much the same. KOTH, CP, and PL are pretty common choices in the competitive scene. Arena not so much but it can be a fun alternative for some casual games. A/D and PLR I agree wholeheartedly. Until A/D maybe gets some better maps it'll never be that great of a mode.

You need hats to play with us though.

Oh wait, I lied. I have two hats! Now I just have to get an unusual for MVP status.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Yeah, I'll be talking with Krynxe, who will be in charge of the server stuff for this.

lol I don't have many hats either, and I don't plan on getting an unusual. Too mainstream.

 

[Krynxe]

Also I'm not entirely sure I understand the logic in banning the Dead Ringer. Enforcer, yes, it is a highly broken gun. I can see banning that. Dead Ringer, however, especially in games where there's one class per team, I don't see it being that big of an issue. Unless someone's only using it to hide and abuse time limits, but why would they be playing competitively in that case?

I think you're confusing the Dead Ringer and the Cloak and Dagger. Either way, you're misunderstanding, you're only not allowed to use both the Enforcer and Dead Ringer at the same time. If you want to use the Dead Ringer that's fine, so long as you have any other revolver equipped.

And yeah, I can host and set up the server for all of this. Idk anyone else's opinion about using custom maps. I wasn't planning on it but I do love custom maps, so if other people are okay with it we might play them occasionally.

Glad we hit 18, we're going to need to get everyone in a steam group chat or something and figure out everyone's choice of class. We need a set 2 of each. To clarify for Tery, for the switching class in game thing, the class limit is still 1 so you may only swap classes with another player if they agree to it. This really isn't recommended because most people are playing the class with their most expertise, but we don't want people to feel locked to their classes if others on their team don't mind trading classes with you.

I created a steam group just for this. It'll help us keep organized, especially with events and whatnot. It's a private group, so everyone here be sure to add me on steam and I'll invite you to the group.

Be sure to update the op with those rules too, Tery.