Official Talk is Cheap - Ryu Match Up Thread

[Nu~]

What's good Ryu mains?

The Mega Man boards are currently discussing the Ryu matchup. It would be awesome if you came over and offered some insight from the other side.

A new challenger awaits

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Rosalina is analyzing Ryu at her sub-forum again. You can go to the following thread link if you have anything to contribute for the match-up.

http://smashboards.com/threads/416753/

 

[PURGE THEM LIKE THE]

I'm new. Say hi.
Can someone just open the floodgates on Ryu vs. Greninja? He seems to be the perfect combination of size, speed, and shield safety (seriously look at dat neutral and forward air) to give all the trouble in the world. Normally I can think simply think up a strategy when times get like this, but I don't even know where to approach this matchup.

 

[CreamyFatone]

This may be just a first impression, but I actually kind of feel like Ryu has a favorable matchup against Bayonetta.

How do you guys feel about it?

 

[HoodedAltair]

Keep all relevant data and opinions of this matchup on this thread. Once the discussion is finished, I will archive this thread into the main Matchup thread. This is simply more convenient to see and use especially since the old thread is finally back and here to stay.

GO

Relevant Tournament Sets

MLG FINALS 2015 - Trela (Ryu) Vs. 6WX (Ryu, Sonic)

GENESIS 3 - TOP 32 - Trela (Ryu) Vs. 6WX (Sonic)

UMEBURA F.A.T. - 9B (Ryu) Vs. Komorikiri (Sonic)

EagleLAN - DJ Jack (Ryu) Vs. Oni Heero (Sonic)

Capital City Smash - Venom (Ryu) Vs. SuperGirlKels (Sonic)

 

[[XIII] | Sandstorm]

One of the hardest characters I've played against with Ryu tbh. You have to play really defensively and patient, and doing that with Ryu is very hard for me. The only advice I can give is obv stay back and NEVER approach

 

[redcometchar]

I think ryu beats the life out of sonic. As long as you dont play the matchup like trella. I dont think ryu should be dashing at all in this matchup. Its literally about walking sonic down and spamming light tilts. Jab and down tilt both beat spindash and run up anything, but trades with jump ins and looses to rolls. Up tilt beats jump ins, but ive seen it trade or loose with some run up options. If your scared you can always do a full hop fadeaway fair or nair and sonic cant do jack.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Once this thread receives enough replies to suit you HoodedAltair I'll merge it with the other.

While I'm at it. I'm not able to watch the videos at the moment but from my own experience: playing against Sonic is rather basic. Usually playing keep away with a true Hadoken then getting in for combos with a Shakunetsu Hadoken is the easiest way to handle them. It's especially easy to do with Sonic because their approach options are so limited.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I think ryu beats the life out of sonic. As long as you dont play the matchup like trella. I dont think ryu should be dashing at all in this matchup. Its literally about walking sonic down and spamming light tilts. Jab and down tilt both beat spindash and run up anything, but trades with jump ins and looses to rolls. Up tilt beats jump ins, but ive seen it trade or loose with some run up options. If your scared you can always do a full hop fadeaway fair or nair and sonic cant do jack.

Yeah I think Ryu has all the tools he needs to win this match. If you lose to a Sonic you are either online or he's better than you. I remember Vinnie told me he thinks Sonic wins and just don't agree. Keep about 3 char lengths away usually. Ryu can re-actively beat spin dashes and dash attack with pivot grab and pivot s.mk (light ftilt). He cannot mess with you in footsies. He has to rely on speed and baiting. His conversions come from going in hard and attacking which is what Ryu wants and thrives in punishing. Spin dashes do have invincible start up however so mind your spacing and your hadoukens. Good Sonics will blow through them and punish you, then turn that into a conversion.

But making Sonic feel uncomfortable is KEY. SO many people back up and give Sonic room to breath. NO!! Yes if you have more room then its easier to react, but it also gives Sonic more time to change his angle of attack and bait YOU. Close the space and force HIM to guess.

I wish my set vs Seagull Joe was recorded half a year ago. It was textbook, "How to fight Sonic and not get mauled in the mid range game".

 

[redcometchar]

If you smk a spindash or dash in you can link into ryu's b&b because they will have di in.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Yeah I think Ryu has all the tools he needs to win this match. If you lose to a Sonic you are either online or he's better than you. I remember Vinnie told me he thinks Sonic wins and just don't agree. Keep about 3 char lengths away usually. Ryu can re-actively beat spin dashes and dash attack with pivot grab and pivot s.mk (light ftilt). He cannot mess with you in footsies. He has to rely on speed and baiting. His conversions come from going in hard and attacking which is what Ryu wants and thrives in punishing. Spin dashes do have invincible start up however so mind your spacing and your hadoukens. Good Sonics will blow through them and punish you, then turn that into a conversion.

But making Sonic feel uncomfortable is KEY. SO many people back up and give Sonic room to breath. NO!! Yes if you have more room then its easier to react, but it also gives Sonic more time to change his angle of attack and bait YOU. Close the space and force HIM to guess.

I wish my set vs Seagull Joe was recorded half a year ago. It was textbook, "How to fight Sonic and not get mauled in the mid range game".

I mean, you were the first I ever fought in tournament and I was (Still am) limited in experience vs that character. I can't remember the set in depth, but I remember it went to game 3 and while I had the percent lead, I died at like 50 game 3 from true shoryuken. Matchup is very lopsided. I think wins it like 60-40 and results back that up.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I don't think results show what happens when both sides know the match. I see a plethora of Ryus get handled at mid range or give sonic way too much space.

Actually...a lot of people give him too much space.

Sonic might win. The match is far from easy, but when I look at their tools, I'm not seeing how sonic neutralizes ryus tools to give him 60/40 advantage.

 

[PeliPenguin]

Sonic's bait and punish style is quite effective against Ryu. Ryu's ability to pressure is not as powerful in this MU because of Sonic's speed, spacing fairs, bairs and Hadokens generally carry some risk because Sonic has the mobility to be able to get around them and punish Ryu.

Ryu straight up beats Sonic in QCQ, his frame data and combos give him a significant advantage over Sonic's rather bland normals. The thing is though, Sonic doesn't necessarily have to be engaging you all the time, so he can avoid these situations. Good Sonics will rarely put themselves in a QCQ situation intentionally, relying on baits and speed until they see an opening and since he can attack while moving, Ryu can't exploit his great normals as easily. Ryu wants to be in a range in which he can react to Spin Dash, but Sonic's speed means he can close the gap easily and begin his mix ups which Ryu doesn't have an easy answer to. Patient is your friend, pre emptively throwing out attacks hoping he'll spin into them will get you punished. Ryu's weight and sluggish air mobility make him fairly easy to juggle, so Sonic can easily capitalise off of one mistake. Like in many MUs you're basically dead if you have to sideb to recover, whilst Ryu lacks answers for Sonic's recovery. If Sonic gets the lead its really hard for Ryu to approach Sonic, since his mobility isn't the best, so its difficult for Ryu to exert pressure. FA isn't that good in this MU either because most of Sonic's attacks are multihit.

Those things alone make it sound bad but Ryu's punish game is so absurd it helps him significantly. Although Sonic can get a lot of hits on you and get you to high% fairly easily, his kill options rely on reads or situational set ups. Ryu on the other hand can hit Sonic a few times and easily make up all the damage because of his crazy damage output and low kill%. Since Sonic will most likely put you in rage for quite a while, comebacks against him are sure to happen considering how ridiculously powerful Tshoryu is. Ryu can further extend his hits by exploiting Sonic's bad disadvantage, Sonic may be difficult to catch in neutral but once you get him in the air or in a corner you can dish out strong attacks and easily make up for all the damage.

Overall Ryu in this MU runs hot and cold, whilst Sonic has tools to beat most of Ryu's kit, Ryu can abuse his much better punishes to even the playing field.

Concept Match: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NozDGSxaHf4

45-55

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Sonic's bait and punish style is quite effective against Ryu. Ryu's ability to pressure is not as powerful in this MU because of Sonic's speed, spacing fairs, bairs and Hadokens generally carry some risk because Sonic has the mobility to be able to get around them and punish Ryu.

Ryu straight up beats Sonic in QCQ, his frame data and combos give him a significant advantage over Sonic's rather bland normals. The thing is though, Sonic doesn't necessarily have to be engaging you all the time, so he can avoid these situations. Good Sonics will rarely put themselves in a QCQ situation intentionally, relying on baits and speed until they see an opening and since he can attack while moving, Ryu can't exploit his great normals as easily. Ryu wants to be in a range in which he can react to Spin Dash, but Sonic's speed means he can close the gap easily and begin his mix ups which Ryu doesn't have an easy answer to. Patient is your friend, pre emptively throwing out attacks hoping he'll spin into them will get you punished. Ryu's weight and sluggish air mobility make him fairly easy to juggle, so Sonic can easily capitalise off of one mistake. Like in many MUs you're basically dead if you have to sideb to recover, whilst Ryu lacks answers for Sonic's recovery. If Sonic gets the lead its really hard for Ryu to approach Sonic, since his mobility isn't the best, so its difficult for Ryu to exert pressure. FA isn't that good in this MU either because most of Sonic's attacks are multihit.

Those things alone make it sound bad but Ryu's punish game is so absurd it helps him significantly. Although Sonic can get a lot of hits on you and get you to high% fairly easily, his kill options rely on reads or situational set ups. Ryu on the other hand can hit Sonic a few times and easily make up all the damage because of his crazy damage output and low kill%. Since Sonic will most likely put you in rage for quite a while, comebacks against him are sure to happen considering how ridiculously powerful Tshoryu is. Ryu can further extend his hits by exploiting Sonic's bad disadvantage, Sonic may be difficult to catch in neutral but once you get him in the air or in a corner you can dish out strong attacks and easily make up for all the damage.

Overall Ryu in this MU runs hot and cold, whilst Sonic has tools to beat most of Ryu's kit, Ryu can abuse his much better punishes to even the playing field.

Concept Match: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NozDGSxaHf4

45-55

It's nice to see a Sonic main adding in. Allows this thread to see the match from the other characters perspective.

I'm still going to say that Ryu does have a slight edge over Sonic. Though, the points you bring out are very accurate...

 

[HoodedAltair]

So coming off my win over 6wx at Smashadelphia (2-1), I'm confident adding to this post my thoughts after solidifying them in bracket.

For starters, I believe the MU to be even or slightly in sonics favor. I do not think Ryu has the tools to completely neutralize and negate sonic play.

GAMEPLAN

Like most MUs for sonic, he controls the pace of the game and unless you are in a state of advantage, he will come to you in neutral. Sonic is a character of great speed and mixups but most of them not revolving around grab meaning that shield is your best friend for countering spin dash. You have to be aware of the specific sonic players tendencies and which mixups they prefer and how often. Shield will be your best option in figuring out these movement patterns and countering it.

As Ryu, you need to know when to put pressure on and when to keep your distance. If you can anticipate a spin dash, you can counter it with utilt/dtilt spam (close), shakunetsu (mid-far). If you use utilt/dtilt spam not within the proximity of the spin dash startup, you have a bigger potential to lose to it while you still have a high chance of beating spin charge. Shakunetsu will beat out both spin dash and spin charge except on startup so this is a valuable tool in neutral.

Where Ryu can shine in this MU is close quarters combat as EmblemLord has brought up previously. Getting put into this situation is rare and you'll mostly see it at the ledge and on landings for either character. Ryu has the ability to wrack up a stocks worth of percent by winning these situations alone.

Someone mentioned above that throwing out anticipated bairs and fairs is bad but I have to disagree. Both moves have insane range and damage where landing a hit on a spin dashing sonic is no rarity not to mention that the ending lag of both moves are so minimal where Ryu can mix in shield/walk/tilts. Of course aerials have to be used in good taste and very rarely approaching with them.

Focus Attack is pretty weak in this MU. I still enjoy FADC for movement and mixups but hitting a focus attack requires a good mixup as to avoid a spin dash breaking it. That said, a Ryu without Focus is still a top tier character.


Kill power is a HUGE point to bring up in this MU as it is a determining factor in who can run away with the set. While we are very much aware of Ryu's amazing kill power and setups, sonic struggles with killing onstage unless he gets a clean smash read even then not meaning death until past 100%. Ryu should be living in this MU for a long time unless he is forced into a far away recovering situation in which case sonic excels at being able to punish tatsu end lag with bair and shoryuken with spring (which will always beat shoryuken). In this way, Ryu needs to find many different ways to mixup recovery revolving around FADC, Hadoken stalling, Jump tatsu, etc..

Also a quick note that Ryu can runup and shory sonic spin dash if the read is there. As in my set with 6wx, I never would approach his spin dash and I saved that conditioning through 2 games to finally steal his last stock by approaching his spin charge with a shoryuken. This is a strategy Venom also uses for SuperGirlKels and he used the same premise against Tweek's cart dash at KTAR. Calling sonic out on spin charge can definitely tilt an opponent so this MU doesn't have to be all defensive play.


As you can tell, my synopsis is entirely from the Ryu point of view but that's where I can explain things better. Sonic is very capable of controlling the neutral if Ryu lets him. Controlling space as Ryu and making the sonic be lost in one mixup to use is key.

 

[famedoro]

Here's Hooded against 6WX: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxYv2veY-q0

HoodedAltair , why you chose final destination on game 3?
Aren't Battlefield or Dreamland better stages to pick against Sonic unpredictable neutral game?

 

[HoodedAltair]

Here's Hooded against 6WX: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxYv2veY-q0

HoodedAltair , why you chose final destination on game 3?
Aren't Battlefield or Dreamland better stages to pick against Sonic unpredictable neutral game?

I think Dreamland is overall Ryu's worst stage since he can't go far underneath it and whispy messes up ledge guarding attempts which is huge. I understand these maps are not very good for someone like Sonic but I know he also has specific movement options here that I'm very unfamiliar with. Through game 1 and 2 I understood the neutral game with 6wx and was comfortable going at it on a flat stage where it was up to whoever could out neutral the other and get more hits in

 

[LiL.Will]

Diddy main here asking for advice on the Ryu MU? What should Ryu focus on against Diddy and stages should I ban and try to take Ryu too. What are you trying to avoid or nullify in this MU?

As much detail about the MU the better as I want to get it down.

Thank you

 

[Airpoizon]

isn't the best in speed and air mobility, which has, allowing him to just run and get in pretty easily. in this MU will have to play safe and land strong attacks and combo strings when he sees an opening, such as the end lag on back air and smash attacks.

 

[Berni_Alt]

hi i just started to pick up ryu and i was wondering what the best button layout was, for example C-stick to tilt instead of smash.
if anyone could tell me before i start training him with the wrong button layout.

 

[Koiba]

Hey there Ryus!

The angels are discussing the wandering warrior himself, and we'd love input from your side!

So hop on over~

 

[CHOMPY]

Hey guys, the Dark Pit/Pit boards are discussing the Fox MU, so I came here to invite you guys to it.

Please go to our Pit matchup thread below.

http://smashboards.com/threads/batt...t-matchup-discussion-mega-man-ike-ryu.414936/

 

[CascadedVolcano]

I agree with Hooded that the Sonic matchup is even or in favor of Sonic. Characters that are fast with good grabs I feel are Ryu's hardest matchups (Sonic, Captain Falcon, maybe Fox) since they can just run away for the entire match and almost decide just not to get hit since they can keep Ryu out of range and stay away from him due to Ryu's lack of speed in general.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

http://smashboards.com/threads/charizard-matchup-discussion-ryu.439710/

Hi Ryu mains. The Charizard boards are currently discussing the Ryu vs Charizard matchup.

Come on over and tell us what you think.

Can you dragon punch a dragon?

 

[Norr]

HoodedAltair Who's the next character?

 

[Y2Kay]

The ninja's are discussing the ryu match up. come join~

https://smashboards.com/threads/mas...-thread-session-8-wario-ryu-10-2-10-9.438657/