T-Link Innovations?

[WeenusChu]

Project M has been a breath of fresh air for Smash Brothers so far.
The team has really stretched their legs creatively, it's been pretty great.
Characters like Wolf have become these entirely new entities that reflect the spirit of Melee.

T-Link has been extremely fun to mess around with.
However, I find that his B-set is too similar to Link's in it's properties.
I was thinking that a lot of people would be more interested in the character
if he had some more diversity in his options, and reflected his RPG iteration more.

Boomerang, Arrows -- I'd like to see one of them changed.
There's already data for T-Link's Windwaker -- I think it would
be interesting to see that taunt cannibalized and used for some form of offense.
Lucas for example has his P-Up! ability, maybe T-Link could have something similar.
Maybe the taunt could be repurposed to push people away with wind.

 

[BRLNK88]

They could just insert the gale from Link's old boomerang animation.

 

[Ripple]

I want bomb chus

 

[B.W.]

I don't think this thread even needs to exist.

T.Link is fine and awesome the way he is and he's quite different from Link already.

 

[BRLNK88]

I don't think this thread even needs to exist.

T.Link is fine and awesome the way he is and he's quite different from Link already.

I'd like him to modified to better deal with spacies, which WILL be rampant in the tournament scene.
Falco is easily his worst MU. Toon has trouble dealing with heavy pressure, and that's Falco's pita bread and hummus.

 

[B.W.]

T.Link doesn't do totally awful against spacies. They're still hard match-ups, but he does have a few things where he can gain the advantage.

Personally I think Fox is harder than Falco because of his stupid dash speed. Unless you go to FD because Falco on FD is dumb.

 

[BRLNK88]

I can definitely see your point, I just know more good Falco than Fox players in PM.
All the Melee people I know that play Fox think he doesn't feel right in PM, thus they play Falco. Haven't played any Wolf mains, but I'd still rank him below the latter. The few strictly PM people I know only play the new characters.
Against Falco, not only are you dealing with his broken ass shield pressure, you're dodging lasers while trying to pull out bombs or throw boomerangs.
Just to grab him you basically have to trick him, and even then, no combos out of grab until low-mid to mid percents.
I personally think Link does a little better, but Ike has been my main answer.

 

[B.W.]

I don't grab spacies unless I can trick them into their shield. Otherwise I play the boomerang game (and the bomb game when I can).

To rack up damage after getting a close range hit, you can juggle them with U-Smash for a while, and once you feel they're too high up, stop U-Smashing and start U-Airing.

B-air while running away (from anyone trying to close in on you) is a nice way to keep people off you.

 

[BRLNK88]

Usmash is a great juggling tool no doubt, as are uairs at higher percents.
The real trick is getting them into that compromising position, no easy task against a competent spacie. I find myself taking 2 or 3 stocks at best against anyone that knows the MU and is at least of equal skill to me. Toon also naturally destroys them both when they're off stage, but that goes along the same tangent. Toon is shine-spike and dair meat even with the aid of glide tosses.
If Toon had a Marf-like grab (which Ike basically does), that MU would be MUCH easier.

 

[B.W.]

It would be. But like I said, he has tools that allow him to succeed. But it's still going to be hard. It just comes with the character really.

 

[Jolteon]

You have options out of grab vs spacies with TL at 0%. dthrow -> up+b is free damage and charged up+b does a lot. bthrow -> up+b ledge hog is also super easy to edge guard from, bthrow sends at a crazy low angle.

 

[Red(SP)]

I simply find Tink marvelous. He's one of the only characters who keep me moving my thoughts around in my head saying "I wonder what would happen if I did this and did that?" and whatnot. Bomb setups are legit; getting those mindgames in, oh my jesus. An-hero spikes are the best and feeling good while getting your tools to coordinate with each other has to be the best feeling around.

I may main Ness and secondary Lucas, but Tink is probably my favorite secondary out of the two I use. It takes me a while to get used to him again, but that's not a major issue.

 

[BRLNK88]

You have options out of grab vs spacies with TL at 0%. dthrow -> up+b is free damage and charged up+b does a lot. bthrow -> up+b ledge hog is also super easy to edge guard from, bthrow sends at a crazy low angle.

I would think they could just tech away and avoid the up-B, then just punish your ending lag with a shine.
I generally only dthrow spacies to tech chase, which itself is risky because of the price of a missed grab. Might try out that bthrow edge hog.

 

[Red(SP)]

I would think they could just tech away and avoid the up-B, then just punish your ending lag with a shine.
I generally only dthrow spacies to tech chase, which itself is risky because of the price of a missed grab. Might try out that bthrow edge hog.

Varying on which spacie you're dealing with, wouldn't a better option for Tink be his up throw? There are more options out of that to follow up with and I feel a lot better knowing they won't be able to tech out of something so soon either for me to follow up with whatever it might be.

Of course I'm speaking at percents that would lunge the opponent a bit higher than average, because spacies fall fast and whatnot.

 

[Jolteon]

I would think they could just tech away and avoid the up-B, then just punish your ending lag with a shine.
I generally only dthrow spacies to tech chase, which itself is risky because of the price of a missed grab. Might try out that bthrow edge hog.

You can move with up+b to cover techs, I definitely agree with you that tether grabs are too slow to regrab on a tech chase.

If I upload any vids with the up+b edge hog I'll post them here.

Red: uthrow is very solid at around mid %s and higher (at higher you can do uthrow -> up+b), it doesn't guarantee a link at lower percents though.

 

[geno]

I find that his B-set is too similar to Link's in it's properties.
I was thinking that a lot of people would be more interested in the character
if he had some more diversity in his options, and reflected his RPG iteration more.

Even though current Tink is beautiful, I agree that it'd be kinda cool to see more Wind Waker moves, for awesomeness and for further differentiation from Link. However, I feel like Tink's B moves are pretty set in stone.

B: link always needs his arrows, but I wouldn't be too torn up if they found something awesome to replace it. Actually, I lied. I love the arrows.
Up-B: is just link's signature recovery, not much else I can imagine for a link recovery. Unless they do something with his Deku Leaf. But I'm not sure how I feel about that... (Also, maybe a fully charged grounded one could result in a "hurricane spin" resulting in a glowing fast moving spin where you're dizy at the end).
Down-B: Although Bomb-Chu's would be cool, regular bombs are needed for AGTing and a lot of Tink's mind games.
Forward-B: Even though I love the boomerang, I don't feel that it's essential to Tink as a character.

I could see changing his Uair and Dair although I love their current forms. Not sure about Uair, but maybe to his vertical perry attack. That one special attack that link does where he jumps over his opponent and slashes downward.

 

[ManaX]

I figured that Tinks bombs needed something new...
So I lightly tossed a bomb up and hit that **** with zair.

BOOM
NEW HORIZONTAL ARC
WHATCHUGONNADO
#simplemindgames

 

[Drodeka]

Changing his grab to be the grapple hook from Wind Waker would be cool, or it could even replace one of his B's. A chargeable grab with it would be my wet dream, though, especially if you could slowly move backward or forward while charging.
The magical leaf from Wind Waker could also be a sweet side special, aiding in recovery and blowing wind for beautiful gimp opportunities on stage.
His bombs are the only special I absolutely require to be kept, or I'm not satisfied. Not only is it's usage different from Link, but the toon explosions are awesome and highlight the difference between the two characters.
Silly idea, let his Up-B charge in the air as well, either increasing it's rise and/or increasing it's first, more powerful hitbox duration and/or knockback.

 

[PastLink]

Silly idea, let his Up-B charge in the air as well, either increasing it's rise and/or increasing it's first, more powerful hitbox duration and/or knockback.

it is silly, and i love it
Tink confirmed for best recovery

 

[Drodeka]

it is silly, and i love it
Tink confirmed for best recovery

I was thinking the charge time would make it so he doesn't actually gain recovery from it, like as soon as it's full charge and you release, you'd have fallen to exactly where the height gained would take you right to where you would have been without charging. This would balance the idea and make it a situational option.

 

[B.W.]

It's still be a buff to his recovery in two ways.

The first way is, you'd be able to have more horizontal recovery, even if you didn't get any vertical recovery.

The second and bigger factor would be he'd be able to mix up his recovery easily making him all sorts of amount of stupid to edge guard. He already has AGTing for distance and it can be used to mix up his recovery, and he's got a hookshot.

 

[PastLink]

mixing it up is exactly where i was at with it. but hey, diddy kong gains more distance the longer he charges.
also, what if when fully charged it had a whirlwind aesthetic and an absorption effect?

 

[B.W.]

I figured, but that's one thing his recovery doesn't need.

 

[internetmovieguy]

Toon Link's back air needs to send at a slightly higher angle with a little less initial knockback.

I want to see b-air -> d-air fire spike
or b-air -> up B

boomerang could use 1 or 2 more frames of hit stun.

Link's full charge arrow will hit Toon Link in his neutral stance (with his not bubble shield up) please fix that.
RAR should be matched up to brawl's RAR speed.

His Recovery is Fine.


Just for fun why not replace all his tools with magic armor from the wind waker.
Also for fun Change the final smash to a pack of angry Cuccos

 

[B.W.]

None of these changes need to be implemented. T.Link is mostly fine.

T.Link's neutral stance shielding isn't as good as Link's, and why are you even depending on that for anything to begin with?

 

[internetmovieguy]

T.Link's neutral stance shielding isn't as good as Link's, and why are you even depending on that for anything to begin with?

1.) There is no reason for Toon Link's shield to be worse than Links (Toon Link's shield is actually better in the games then Link's shield)
2) It doesn't use the bubble shield but it stops projectiles

yeah I know you can just dodge or jump out of the way, it's a mix up and a darn good one.
My tech skill is lacking as i can't move my fingers fast enough so i depend heavily on mix ups, baits, and creative and intelligent game play.

 

[B.W.]

Just cause it's better in games (pretty sure it's not except for Skyward Sword anyway) doesn't mean it has to be better in Smash.

Blocking with T.Link's actual shield isn't a "mix up." That's not what mix ups are. There's also nothing overly intelligent about using the shield to block stuff. No offense, but there's not.

Practice and get good at moving around, cause it's a major part of the character.

 

[internetmovieguy]

It is very useful. especially since I can crouch cancel with it. I called it a mix up because I don't use it often.
Consider that you find it pointless to use; why object to it being as good as link's shield?

 

[ManaX]

Consider that you find it pointless to use; why object to it being as good as link's shield?

Why aren't you reflecting projectiles?
Why are you standing still?
Are you trying to let your opponent win?
The sheild is only useful for stopping projectiles that get reflected back to you.

 

[B.W.]

And even then, just move.

 

[ManaX]

B.W. knows what's up.
The fact that your getting use out of the sheild tells us that your style is passive. As a TL main, having an active, aggressive style will get you much more mileage.

 

[B.W.]

Or even an active defensive. That's what I usually do.

 

[ManaX]

Or even an active defensive. That's what I usually do.

How do you maintain a defensive? I normally get punished because of the frames for the projectiles.

 

[B.W.]

Don't stand still, but also throw projectiles.

 

[Beethro]

lmao what about being able to parry attack during his roll
the leaf sounds cool but doesnt that go under the "no articles" clause anyway