Social Swamp's Social Thread 3 - And now, the end is near, and so I face the final curtain...

[Spazzy_D]

There are plenty of gaming fans that don't stick to a console and simply play games from across the medium, regardless of console or whatever.

Yes, there are the fanboys who waste time with petty console wars, but do know that the Smash Bros. Ballot was reported by gaming media overall, thus having exposure to those gamers.

There were Bayonetta fans who got a Wii U for Bayo2. Smash fans saw the ballot as if it was a popularity contest for themselves, but forgot to look at the big picture.

Most reliable numbers I can find have Bayonetta 2 at around 600k. Not all of those are people that bought Bayonetta 2 bought a Wii U for Bayonetta, I know I didn't. That's a drop in the bucket.

Once again, Bayonetta wasn't a massive hit on any console.

IF NINTENDO DIDN'T BANKROLL BAYONETTA 2 IT WOULDN'T EXIST.

I like the Bayonetta games. I played both. I think she's cool and I'm glad she's in Smash. I'm also not saying she didn't win the ballot. I'm just saying she got in because people associate her with Nintendo now.

I just don't know what parallel world I stepped into where she's from this super popular and important franchise.

It's a super niche series among the general gaming population. It's not like we're talking about Far Cry, Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, or Resident Evil.

 

[ChikoLad]

How many non-Nintendo fans are going to care enough to vote in the first place? If they were voting just on want, there are many 360 and PS3 games that sold (a lot more), were reviewed better, and are generally more popular.

There are a ton of Smash fans who only give a crap about one or two Nintendo franchises, if any, in part because of the competitive fighting game aspect.

Hell, I got into Smash because Snake and later Sonic made it in. I had some history with Mario, Kirby, and especially Zelda and Pokémon, but for some reason the appeal of Smash never really hit me until I saw Snake and Sonic.

And then I would go on to play more Nintendo games since I bought the Wii and would then go through the back catalog.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I call this the soundtrack of shattered dreams.

 

[Burruni]

I call this the soundtrack of shattered dreams.

Missing the Golden Sun track from Pyrosphere
And the Rhythm Heaven track from Miiverse.

 

[Champ Gold]

Most reliable numbers I can find have Bayonetta 2 at around 600k. Not all of those are people that bought Bayonetta 2 bought a Wii U for Bayonetta, I know I didn't. That's a drop in the bucket.

Once again, Bayonetta wasn't a massive hit on any console.

IF NINTENDO DIDN'T BANKROLL BAYONETTA 2 IT WOULDN'T EXIST.

I like the Bayonetta games. I played both. I think she's cool and I'm glad she's in Smash.

I just don't know what parallel world I stepped into where she's from this super popular and important franchise.

It's a super niche series among the general gaming population. It's not like we're talking about Far Cry, Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, or Resident Evil.

I don't think people believe she's a megastar franchise like Sonic the Hedgehog, Street Fighter and Final Fantasy but the games are damn well popular and 600k sales is great for a franchise that is small and even then, you have to remember that it's kinda the Platinum curse.

Every series or game that Platinum does sells like crap aside from bargain bin sales and the only franchise the avoid that was Metal Gear Rising Revengance which used an already established franchise.

None of us has said she's on the level of other third party characters but she's a daily popular character in the sense of the gaming word than general public. She doesn't stand out but she's been well known despite being niche

 

[Strofirko]

Not to start an argument,

But do you guys think Bayonetta really won the ballot?

I'm not saying that they're lying to us. But do you think there was some tampering involved? Did they let people vote as many times as they want, thus allowing for bots to take over?

Now look, I'm fine with her inclusion and am happy for her fanbase. I'm just sort of shocked that she was never on the table for any of our discussions, yet she won. I never expected the fan polls to be an indicator (I never thought K Rool or Shantae actually "won"), but I really am confused on how she ended up being #1 Worldwide.

The only caracters that I could see beating bayonetta on the ballot are:K.Roll,Wolf and Inklings,mainly Inklings.

The others are a collec-ton of small western third parties (Shovel Knight,Shantae,BK,Rayman),that could have beaten Bayonetta,but I don't see Sakurai getting on the trouble of acquiring them.

 

[ChikoLad]

Another thing that could have helped Bayonetta's popularity is that she almost made it into Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed but was cut.

There was also a ballot thing for this game (nothing came of it though) where Bayonetta still ranked highly.

 

[Frostwraith]

I don't think people believe she's a megastar franchise like Sonic the Hedgehog, Street Fighter and Final Fantasy but the games are damn well popular and 600k sales is great for a franchise that is small and even then, you have to remember that it's kinda the Platinum curse.

Every series or game that Platinum does sells like crap aside from bargain bin sales and the only franchise the avoid that was Metal Gear Rising Revengance which used an already established franchise.

None of us has said she's on the level of other third party characters but she's a daily popular character in the sense of the gaming word than general public. She doesn't stand out but she's been well known despite being niche

Exactly my point. She's a case of character popularity, but not franchise popularity.

Bayonetta isn't a successful franchise in any way, mind that.

Most reliable numbers I can find have Bayonetta 2 at around 600k. Not all of those are people that bought Bayonetta 2 bought a Wii U for Bayonetta, I know I didn't. That's a drop in the bucket.

Once again, Bayonetta wasn't a massive hit on any console.

IF NINTENDO DIDN'T BANKROLL BAYONETTA 2 IT WOULDN'T EXIST.

I like the Bayonetta games. I played both. I think she's cool and I'm glad she's in Smash. I'm also not saying she didn't win the ballot. I'm just saying she got in because people associate her with Nintendo now.

I just don't know what parallel world I stepped into where she's from this super popular and important franchise.

It's a super niche series among the general gaming population. It's not like we're talking about Far Cry, Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, or Resident Evil.

Again, I agree that Bayonetta isn't a successful franchise, but as I said, she is a somewhat known character among gaming fans.

It's like, people don't care a lot about her games, but her character is known, probably because she's a sassy witch with loads of sex appeal and an over-the-top fighting style.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Another thing that could have helped Bayonetta's popularity is that she almost made it into Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed but was cut.

There was also a ballot thing for this game (nothing came of it though) where Bayonetta still ranked highly.

Top results for that poll, by the way:

1.) Ryo Hazuki: 3379
2.) Hatsune Miku: 3180
3.) Segata Sanshiro: 2613
4.) Vectorman: 1221
5.) Bayonetta: 1215
6.) Ristar: 1081
7.) ToeJam & Earl: 1015

 

[Bedoop]

There was also a ballot thing for this game (nothing came of it though) where Bayonetta still ranked highly.

Among Bayonetta was Segata Sanshiro which would've been awesome
Also I claim bull**** on the age rating
We got Team Fortress in this game
NOEXCUSES
NOJUSTICENOALLIBYNOTREATYNOHOPE

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I wonder if Bayo had a jump in eShop sales lately.

 

[Strofirko]

Another thing that could have helped Bayonetta's popularity is that she almost made it into Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed but was cut.

There was also a ballot thing for this game (nothing came of it though) where Bayonetta still ranked highly.

The winners of this "ballot" were:
Ryo Hazuki
Segata Sanshiro
Ristar
Vectorman
Bayonetta
Hatsune Miku
Toe Jam and Earl

Only Ryo made in,but I doubt she was dropped for age ratings,they made a bunch of crap with the DLC characters of that game,seemingly they gave up half way through.
I still not believe they got ****in real life persons on that game.

 

[ChikoLad]

Also I mentioned it before but there were official Playboy photoshoots for both Bayonetta 1 and 2 (including nude shoots) that would have easily boosted her popularity outside of the gamer spectrum.

Spoiler

Among Bayonetta was Segata Sanshiro which would've been awesome
Also I claim bull**** on the age rating
We got Team Fortress in this game
NOEXCUSES
NOJUSTICENOALLIBYNOTREATYNOHOPE

TF2 characters are easy to portray in a family friendly way though since they are cartoony.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Missing the Golden Sun track from Pyrosphere
And the Rhythm Heaven track from Miiverse.

Maybe if those songs were called Isaac and [insert Rhythm Heaven character name here] I would have added them to the list.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I don't think people believe she's a megastar franchise like Sonic the Hedgehog, Street Fighter and Final Fantasy but the games are damn well popular and 600k sales is great for a franchise that is small and even then, you have to remember that it's kinda the Platinum curse.

Every series or game that Platinum does sells like crap aside from bargain bin sales and the only franchise the avoid that was Metal Gear Rising Revengance which used an already established franchise.

None of us has said she's on the level of other third party characters but she's a daily popular character in the sense of the gaming word than general public. She doesn't stand out but she's been well known despite being niche

I agree. My point is that people started talking about her in relation to Smash because Bayo 2 was a Nintendo exclusive. I can not honestly believe that she would have received the number of votes she did if she hadn't been pushed the way she was by Nintendo.

 

[Chrono.]

I'm on camp "I don't think she was Sakurai's first choice"

It's clear she ranked highly, but I think he may have considered some other characters first before deciding on Bayonetta.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Something weird I noticed is that if you use the Bayonetta 1 outfit in the Japanese version of the game she speaks in English.

 

[Frostwraith]

Something weird I noticed is that if you use the Bayonetta 1 outfit in the Japanese version of the game she speaks in English.

It's a reference to how Bayonetta 1 didn't have Japanese voices.

The characters were voiced in English in all versions. Bayo2, the Wii U port of Bayo1 and the anime movie all had both Japanese and English voice over done.

 

[Khoru]

I'm on camp "I don't think she was Sakurai's first choice"

It's clear she ranked highly, but I think he may have considered some other characters first before deciding on Bayonetta.

i sorta feel like at least one of the "unrealizable" choices was lolsakuraibias
it's certainly possible they were all third parties, memes, and/or technical impossibilities though

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I bet Wolf was the 2nd overall choice worldwide (among realizable characters).

 

[Chrono.]

i sorta feel like at least one of the "unrealizable" choices was lolsakuraibias
it's certainly possible they were all third parties, memes, and/or technical impossibilities though

Yeah.

I think that he may have thought that while other characters ranked higher, Bayonetta offered more overall.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

After Ryu and Roy Sakurai said it was going to be fan service from there on out...

Explain Corrin then.

 

[Champ Gold]

I feel like Bayonetta wasn't the first choice considering I believe Snake and Inklings were higher than her but outside of maybe limitations, moveset style and/or legal work through with a company, she's just more feasible option for Sakurai.

She wasn't his first but was her best

 

[FinalStarmen]

But do you guys think Bayonetta really won the ballot?

Truthfully, we're never going to know for certain who actually placed where on the ballot, so it's not exactly a question that can ever be answered definitely. We only have Sakurai's word to go by, and even then it opens up a can of worms as to who trusts him and who doesn't.


PushDustIn Spazzy_D How high do you think would K. Rool have to score on the ballot to warrant the Mii costume as a consolation prize, especially considering the likes of of other dead-in-the-water characters like Isaac and Krystal received not a single acknowledgement? Top 20-30 range?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

After Ryu and Roy Sakurai said it was going to be fan service from there on out...

Explain Corrin then.

Fire Emblem Fates is out in Japan. And popular there.

He didn't say fanservice to the entire world. He's not the best with wording, so people have to remember what he says has to be looked at a bit differently than the norm.

 

[Champ Gold]

Well since you guys are in speculation mood. How about a hand of this:

So, anyone wanna guess the companies he got offers from? Maybe Sakurai and Kamiya put out a good word for him from Nintendo

Fire Emblem Fates is out in Japan. And popular there.

He didn't say fanservice to the entire world. He's not the best with wording, so people have to remember what he says has to be looked at a bit differently than the norm.

Plus he did succeed in the fan service option.

Look at Cloud, Bayonetta and the stages he has made for DLC.

 

[Frostwraith]

The "it's going to be fan service" quote, courtesy of PushDustIn and the translator team of SG, might not have conveyed completely well what Sakurai meant.

Sakurai has emphasized how DLC is EXTRA content and how patches and additional content are something that developers choose to do to extend a product's development. See this: http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/12/02/areupdatesabadthing/

Here's a dictionary entry for the word Sakurai used (that SG translated as "fan service"): http://jisho.org/word/サービス

I think definition 4 is the one the best describes what Sakurai meant in regards to additional content.

4. service; servicing; (product) maintenance

And now, I borrow from my knowledge of software development, in which product maintenance is the time period in which, after an application has been released to the market, the development team focus on updating it with bug fixes and possibly implement additional features and other such improvements.

Sounds a lot like what patches and DLC are and lines up with what Sakurai has stated about DLC development, doesn't it?

 

[Deleted member]

1 and a half hour left for me to go watch Star Wars
I've never been so hyped in my entire life

Also, I remember people talking about the voice acting in Corrin's trailer some pages ago

Spoiler

Blame Elise for his inclusion

After Ryu and Roy Sakurai said it was going to be fan service from there on out...

Explain Corrin then.

It's fanservice for me so...

 

[Frostwraith]

In addition to my post above, check this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Product_lifecycle#Phase_4:_Service

Phase 4: Service
Use, operate, maintain, support, sustain, phase-out, retire, recycle and disposal
The final phase of the lifecycle involves managing of in service information. Providing customers and service engineers with support information for repair and maintenance, as well as waste management/recycling information. This involves using tools such as Maintenance, Repair and Operations Management (MRO) software.

There is an end-of-life to every product. Whether it be disposal or destruction of material objects or information, this needs to be considered since it may not be free from ramifications.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The "it's going to be fan service" quote, courtesy of PushDustIn and the translator team of SG, might not have conveyed completely well what Sakurai meant.

Sakurai has emphasized how DLC is EXTRA content and how patches and additional content are something that developers choose to do to extend a product's development. See this: http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/12/02/areupdatesabadthing/

Here's a dictionary entry for the word Sakurai used (that SG translated as "fan service"): http://jisho.org/word/サービス

I think definition 4 is the one the best describes what Sakurai meant in regards to additional content.



And now, I borrow from my knowledge of software development, in which product maintenance is the time period in which, after an application has been released to the market, the development team focus on updating it with bug fixes and possibly implement additional features and other such improvements.

Sounds a lot like what patches and DLC are and lines up with what Sakurai has stated about DLC development, doesn't it?

Thank you. This is exactly my point. People are not looking at multiple meanings of a word and only going with their own definition.

That said, I can understand many disappointments. It doesn't excuse being overly salty and rudeness, of course.

Anyway, my only real disappointment(it's not the lack of Wolf. I'm okay with him being gone, and he'll always be remembered fondly by me) is Midgar having two songs. I get why, of course. But the Wii U stages having less than 3 or more songs(if they would have music. See Hanenbow for an example) seems kind of silly. And this is coming from someone who never really liked Final Fantasy VII(except Sephiroth and Aerith) nor cared about its very specific music. The regular battle theme isn't that off from the other games, where as something like One Winged Angel is unique.

 

[Burb]

Assuming all this, she would actually have advantage over Nintendo characters due to having support from non-Nintendo gamers. I doubt characters like K. Rool, Isaac and Inklings would have any support from people outside of the Nintendo fandom.

I'm sure Inkling had plenty of support outside the Nintendo fandom. Splatoon is extremely popular around the gaming community as a whole. Inklings are pretty much the complete opposite of Isaac and K. Rool.

I think the door was shut on them after DLC Wave 2, so I don't think they'd have gotten in regardless of their ballot performance.

After Ryu and Roy Sakurai said it was going to be fan service from there on out...

Explain Corrin then.

Fanservice for Sakurai.

 

[PushDustIn]

The "it's going to be fan service" quote, courtesy of PushDustIn and the translator team of SG, might not have conveyed completely well what Sakurai meant.

Sakurai has emphasized how DLC is EXTRA content and how patches and additional content are something that developers choose to do to extend a product's development. See this: http://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/12/02/areupdatesabadthing/

Here's a dictionary entry for the word Sakurai used (that SG translated as "fan service"): http://jisho.org/word/サービス

I think definition 4 is the one the best describes what Sakurai meant in regards to additional content.



And now, I borrow from my knowledge of software development, in which product maintenance is the time period in which, after an application has been released to the market, the development team focus on updating it with bug fixes and possibly implement additional features and other such improvements.

Sounds a lot like what patches and DLC are and lines up with what Sakurai has stated about DLC development, doesn't it?

Only one issue:

これからは、あくまでサービスだし、いつまでもチームを断続できるわけでもないので、あと数体の配信となりそうです。また、政策にお時間いただきます。

He states "これから" which means, from now. Using your definition of service, then that would need to include Roy, Ryu and Lucas.

This is right after he mentions the Roy, Ryu and Lucas were not picked from the ballot.

もちろん、リュカ、ロイ、リュウの三人は、投票拳が作られる前から制作しています。人気、要望のほどは把握していましたけれども。

 

[Spazzy_D]

Anyone else try to use counter with Cloud even though he doesn't have one? Years of instinct.

 

[Kenith]

I'm fairly certain that the characters excluded from the list of "realizable fighters" were Banjo-Kazooie, Inkling, Ridley, Snake, and for the NA ballot, Shantae and Shovel Knight.

I'd like to think they were all considered at least.

 

[Burruni]

Something I just wanna poke about with.
ENTIRELY HYPOTHETICAL AS I HAVE NO BELIEF OF THIS HAPPENING
E3 2016 Nintendo announces that the NX will have an expanded port of Smash WiiU with more of the 3DS stages, possibly one more 1P mode, and 5 new first-party characters.
Who do you choose?
1)
2)
3) K. Rool
4) Inklings
5) Bandana Dee

 

[powerprotoman]

i see someone still thinks bayonettas guns are realistic.....id like to visit this planet where guns use magical powers to fire

and before you get mad thats the reason the magic rings appear when shes firing the guns in game she isnt actually firing bullets and if you try and say that its because its firing at all i have to wonder why you arnt throwing a fit over clouds oversized kitchen knife

they dont look realisitic they dont fire realisticly and the "bullets" look like yellow lasers in game
it dosent matter what you say or think they arnt realistic in the slightest

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

I might be alone on this, but did anyone else think they were going to reveal Inkling as a playable character after they were showing off their Mii costumes?

After they showed off the QR code stuff while using the Inkling Mii as an example they focused on the Inkling Miis for several seconds.

I legitimately thought they were going to cut to a trailer of them as playable fighters. When I saw the zooming out effect I freaked out; I was so prepared to see the Smash logo pop up.

 

[Kenith]

Something I just wanna poke about with.
ENTIRELY HYPOTHETICAL AS I HAVE NO BELIEF OF THIS HAPPENING
E3 2016 Nintendo announces that the NX will have an expanded port of Smash WiiU with more of the 3DS stages, possibly one more 1P mode, and 5 new first-party characters.
Who do you choose?
1)
2)
3) K. Rool
4) Inklings
5) Bandana Dee

1. Ice Climbers
2. Wolf
3. Midna & Wolf Link
4. Dixie Kong
5. Rhythm Heaven rep

However I'd be more interested in the stages and modes the game has and what it does about custom moves.

EDIT: Replace RH rep with Toad.

 

[Chrono.]

Anyone else try to use counter with Cloud even though he doesn't have one? Years of instinct.

Yeah me too, not to mention trying to do off-stage shenanigans and failing cuz his normal UpB is crap.

 

[Champ Gold]

I wanna know whether or not DLC custom move sets were scrapped mid-development especially considering Mewtwo, Lucas, Roy and Ryu had them in the game but were incomplete