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Official Smash Ultimate Discussion

Almost one month has passed since release. In retrospect....

  • This is by far the best Smash ever. Like, I don't even know how they will top this.

  • Pretty freakin' good; I have a few qualms over things like internet play, balancing issues, etc.

  • It's ok, but [insert Smash game here] is better.

  • I'd rather play Parcheesi.


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Dragoncharystary

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Mario's got a large cast, but I feel Nabbit would be the next character from the main series.
If we were going purely by fan demand, I'd say Waluigi would be the next character in line, but if by main series you meant just the core platformer games and not the spinoffs then I would say Kamek or Captain Toad before Nabbit.
 

Luminario

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One appearance for Pauline doesn't all the sudden make her a top contender, or at least it shouldn't. Nabbit has some ongoing appearances going for him becoming more and more prominent to the Mario universe as a whole. He's even been playable in some spinoffs.
But it's not just one appearance, it's simply her latest one. She was in what is technically the very first Mario game, the Mario vs DK games, and now Odyssey, that's a good backlog of games and moveset inspiration. She's not a top contender by FAR, but that's enough to at least be considered.

Also, Pauline has a pretty high chance of being added to Mario spin-offs too now, since they always add a relevant character from the recent main Mario games just like what they did with Luma, Rosalina, Honey Queen, Sprixie, Spike, and Nabbit.
 

N3ON

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Pauline wouldn't get in just because of her role in Odyssey (and her pasts roles which have been very minimal). It would be her role in Odyssey leading to regular appearances within the Mario series as a whole that would cause her inclusion. Like with Rosalina or Bowser Jr.

Odyssey gets her foot in the door, the following regular appearances is what makes her an actual contender.
 
D

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Rosalina didn't have her "regular appearances" going for her. She was decided for Smash's roster when she only had four appearances to speak of; her debut in Galaxy, her cameo in Galaxy 2, and two Mario Kart appearances (Wii and 7).

What really got Rosalina (& Luma) into Smash was her (their) potential.
Something that isn't inherent with Pauline.
 

Opossum

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If nothing else though, I could see Pauline and her band being an Assist Trophy.

Or a KK Slider-like cameo on a New Donk City stage.
 
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APC99

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Pauline? Yeah, I'm sorry, but I'd need a lot of convincing to believe she'd work in Smash. If you want a character to represent the classic arcade-era DK, I think Donkey Kong Junior is the best bet. He can pull not only from his own appearances, but from classic DK in general.

However, Pauline finally entering the spin-off realm and being in Mario Kart and the various sports titles would be great. More female variety that isn't another baby is always welcome.

However, and I know this is possibly controversial, but I want to see Mario's Cap Toss appear as a new Side Special for him. I feel like, despite the Cape being somewhat of a trademark of Smash Mario, there's just a lot of potential with the Cap Toss move. Throw it out as a long-standing projectile, works as an extra platform once, aim it at different angles to cover different recoveries...

I'd want to keep the Cape as a custom move, of course, but I also just want to flesh out the customization in general to be more like Palutena / Mii Fighters / at least Mega Man, but that's not too likely.
 

Hana Midorikawa

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Toad/Captain Toad (are they the same Toad?) would definitely be the next in line instead of Nabbit. Unfortunately, he may be stay stuck in Peach's moveset forever.

Pauline? Yeah, I'm sorry, but I'd need a lot of convincing to believe she'd work in Smash.
I think the consensus was that Pauline had more merit than Nabbit to get into Smash, not that she should be in Smash.
 

N3ON

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Rosalina didn't have her "regular appearances" going for her. She was decided for Smash's roster when she only had four appearances to speak of; her debut in Galaxy, her cameo in Galaxy 2, and two Mario Kart appearances (Wii and 7).

What really got Rosalina (& Luma) into Smash was her (their) potential.
Something that isn't inherent with Pauline.
Potential was part of it, but do you think Rosalina would've been included with one and only appearance and no promises of more?

I don't. There are plenty of one shot characters with potential out there.
 
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Potential was part of it, but do you think Rosalina would've been included with one and only appearance and no promises of more?

I don't. There are plenty of one shot characters with potential out there.
That's beside the point.

The point of the matter is that Pauline having "regular appearances" wouldn't do much for her unless said appearances show potential for a creative and interesting theme/fighting style like Bowser Jr. with his Clown Car and that Rosalina specifically does not help her case given that it was potential over then-non-existent "regular appearances" that helped the space queen.

Several Mario characters had "regular appearances" at that point that she had yet to truly have. Yet she was the one Sakurai went with.
You really have to consider WHY that is.
 
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Hana Midorikawa

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That's beside the point.

The point of the matter is that Pauline having "regular appearances" wouldn't do much for her unless said appearances show potential for a creative and interesting theme/fighting style like Bowser Jr. with his Clown Car and that Rosalina specifically does not help her case given that it was potential over then-non-existent "regular appearances" that helped the space queen.

Several Mario characters had "regular appearances" at that point that she had yet to truly have. Yet she was the one Sakurai went with.
You really have to consider WHY that is.
I may be wrong, but wasn't Rosalina always popular since Mario Galaxy? I'm sure that and her potential for a unique play style is why Sakurai chose her, and not just the latter only.
 
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I may be wrong, but wasn't Rosalina always popular since Mario Galaxy? I'm sure that and her potential for a unique play style is why Sakurai chose her, and not just the latter only.
She wasn't the only "popular" Mario character that wasn't in Smash, though.

Aside from that, that doesn't really detract from the main point that Rosalina is a bad example to be used in Pauline's favor.
 

Opossum

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I think a lot of it would be cleared up if Sakurai actually talked about Rosalina's process of inclusion. IIRC she was basically the only newcomer he didn't discuss at large.
 

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I think a lot of it would be cleared up if Sakurai actually talked about Rosalina's process of inclusion. IIRC she was basically the only newcomer he didn't discuss at large.
I think it's reasonable to say she quickly became one of the more important characters on the Mario universe in a hurry. Couple that with the fact he was clearly inspired with her moveset and that's why I think she made it in.
 
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I always thought :rosalina: has been chosen mainly because she was also playable in 3D World... ?
 

WeirdChillFever

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I think the problem with Pauline is that while she appears in both Mario vs DK and Odyssey, she can't really represent both at once.
She can have a Mario vs DK moveset, but that leaves out her Odyssey incarnation.
Then you can have an Odyssey moveset, whatever that might entail, but since the Minis don't appear in that game you can't use those.

The best I can see happening now is her using the original arcade game's props but without playstyle or basic moves.

Also if we're going with "characters that aren't noticed but actually have quite a few games under the belt", I think Petey Piranha has more merit than Pauline, whose role in Odyssey could very well be minimal.
 

Godzillathewonderdog

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It was said before that Pauline was Nintendo's first damsel in distress, but that's technically not true.

In the game Sheriff there was a girl who yelled for help as she was being chased by a bandit.

Though she doesn't play any sort of role in the game and Sheriff never actually goes out to save her, nor does he interact with her in anyway, so she's a damsel in distress to a different extent.
 
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Staarih

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I think her 3D World appearance was confirmed AFTER her confirmation with Smash
If I remember correctly, her 3D World appearance was confirmed in November while her Smash appearance a month later in December. Never the less, I don't think that contributed to the choice to add her in Smash as development for both games had been going on for long before that. However, picking her to have a playable role in 3D world was already a precedent of her being on a "higher pedestal", so to say, than many other Mario characters so having her appear in Smash wasn't really surprising.

I'm super excited about Pauline getting more screen time thanks to Odyssey. While Peach is still the damsel in distress, it's fun to think of Pauline as the "ruler" of the kingdom this time around being the mayor of New Donk City, even though not being royalty like Peach of Mushroom Kingdom (or, I dunno, Rosalina protector of the cosmos?). I wouldn't jump the gun with adding her in Smash just yet though, but having more appearances in spin-off's like Mario Kart (please) would be a good start for her.
 
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True Blue Warrior

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However, and I know this is possibly controversial, but I want to see Mario's Cap Toss appear as a new Side Special for him. I feel like, despite the Cape being somewhat of a trademark of Smash Mario, there's just a lot of potential with the Cap Toss move. Throw it out as a long-standing projectile, works as an extra platform once, aim it at different angles to cover different recoveries...
Just replace the FLUDD with it.
 

Luminario

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I think the problem with Pauline is that while she appears in both Mario vs DK and Odyssey, she can't really represent both at once.
She can have a Mario vs DK moveset, but that leaves out her Odyssey incarnation.
Then you can have an Odyssey moveset, whatever that might entail, but since the Minis don't appear in that game you can't use those.

The best I can see happening now is her using the original arcade game's props but without playstyle or basic moves.

Also if we're going with "characters that aren't noticed but actually have quite a few games under the belt", I think Petey Piranha has more merit than Pauline, whose role in Odyssey could very well be minimal.
She could feasibly throw them all together to create some sort of Frankenstein moveset, though finding the right balance would be difficult and the concept alone is quite a stretch.

From what we've seen on Pauline in Odyssey her role isn't exactly Rosalina level cause she's just the most notable character in a single world, but her appearances so far have gained quite a bit of attention which bodes well for her future in stuff like Mario Kart.
 

True Blue Warrior

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You'd be surprised at how unpopular this opinion can be.
There was literally no good reason ("good" being the operative word) to replace the Tornado with the FLUDD in the first place, given the former fit better into Mario's intended gameplay design, being an all-round beginner character.
 

Curious Villager

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In regards to Pauline, and probably to a larger extend for DK jr, I can see them being included in Smash eventually as their fairly iconic retro characters much in the vein of the likes of R.O.B. and Duck Hunt Duo etc. Wether it would be this Smash or any future installments is to be seen I guess.

At least for Pauline, her appearance in Odyssey should give her better chances in appearing in future Mario spin offs now. A bit odd as to why she's hardly ever included in them in the first place (Outside of the Mario vs DK games). I mean, even DK jr made it into a handful of Mario spin off's in the past....
 
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RealLuigisWearPink

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There was literally no good reason ("good" being the operative word) to replace the Tornado with the FLUDD in the first place, given the former fit better into Mario's intended gameplay design, being an all-round beginner character.
Agree. FLUDD was only added because Brawl was still in ''REP GAMECUBE'' mode. Delfino Plaza coming back is enough to represent Sunshine. Mario should get a better Down-B, probably something from Oddyssey
 

UserKev

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There was literally no good reason ("good" being the operative word) to replace the Tornado with the FLUDD in the first place, given the former fit better into Mario's intended gameplay design, being an all-round beginner character.
I been questioning this as long as I can remember. Mario's tornado is iconic as h and FLUDD is depressingly useless.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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F.L.U.D.D. can potentially gimp recoveries though, so it is in a way, a nightmare for Little Mac. At least Smash 3DS / Wii U was nice to Mario, even without his Mario Tornado.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Fled makes Zard's Flare go up and stay in place, I hate that.

That said it's fine given they want to make "clone" like characters stand out more than something like Ryu and Ken which do have differences but still hit that Melee range of pretty dang close to being the same.
 

True Blue Warrior

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You know, it's kinda weird that even though Lucas wasn't a low-priority newcomer in Brawl, he still shared similar B moves and Final Smash to Ness despite pretty much the rest of his moveset being unique.
 

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How would one even use the possession element of Mario throwing his cap in Smash anyways that wouldn't result in it being completely broken?
You don't necessarily have to include the Capture mechanic, just the ability to throw your hat as a projectile / platform. That on it's own is something unique and Odyssey-based without completely renovating Mario's character.
 

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New translation on SG about some of Sakurai's development notes. Talks about certain game mechanics, Shulk, and DDD.

http://sourcegaming.info/2017/06/23/internalnotes/

The DDD one is interesting because it explains why his side b, among other attacks, was changed. I'm pretty sure we debated this before, so it's good to have a concrete answer now.

Another thing that's interesting about it is that in the same notes, he mentions Waddle Dees and Waddle Doos.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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New translation on SG about some of Sakurai's development notes. Talks about certain game mechanics, Shulk, and DDD.

http://sourcegaming.info/2017/06/23/internalnotes/

The DDD one is interesting because it explains why his side b, among other attacks, was changed. I'm pretty sure we debated this before, so it's good to have a concrete answer now.

Another thing that's interesting about it is that in the same notes, he mentions Waddle Dees and Waddle Doos.
That was really interesting. It seems Waddle Dees and Waddle Doos were planned from the start and would have been used with Jet Hammer. This Dedede design feels more complete than what we ended up getting but the 3DS means they had to change things. That could explain why Dedede has a "useless" move. It's original design wasn't meant to be.

Considering the circumstances, not bad though. Dedede is still pretty fun.:4dedede:
 

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That was really interesting. It seems Waddle Dees and Waddle Doos were planned from the start and would have been used with Jet Hammer. This Dedede design feels more complete than what we ended up getting but the 3DS means they had to change things. That could explain why Dedede has a "useless" move. It's original design wasn't meant to be.

Considering the circumstances, not bad though. Dedede is still pretty fun.:4dedede:
I actually prefer the Gordo Toss, so I'm glad this happened. My worry is that it'll be changed back. I wonder what other attacks got changed because of the 3DS?
 

Swamp Sensei

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I actually prefer the Gordo Toss, so I'm glad this happened. My worry is that it'll be changed back. I wonder what other attacks got changed because of the 3DS?
Well, we know transformations were removed because of it. Same with Olimar and the number of Pikmin.

Kirby's and Pit's special move changes don't seem to be inspired by limitations.

I doubt normals would be too intensive...

Maybe final smashes?
 
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