Sunrise Up Again! Isaac for Smash Ultimate DLC

amageish

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
1,522
What do you think the base game Spirit/DLC Spirit ratio would be? While there's a fair bit of potential new Spirits to take from, the amount of Golden Sun Spirits is bigger than both that of ARMS and XC2, and even if we remove Isaac's Spirit, there's still six left to contend with. seven if Dark Dawn Isaac is considered separate. That's almost enough to fill an entire page of a Spirit Board. Do you think we'll get all of them, or would some be dropped?
Well, Min Min's board has all the ARMS spirits expect her own, so I'd assume that the same would happen here... Filling up 6 slots of a spirit board is a lot, but I think it'd be weird to drop any?

So, that'd make it Garet, Ivan, Mia, Felix, Jenna, and Matthew from the get-go. If we assume Isaac gets the max number of DLC spirits we've seen thus far, then we get six new ones too... I'd probably go with Sheba, Piers, Saturos, Menardi, and Flint (or some generic djinn spirit). That leaves one slot left for all of Dark Dawn though, so maybe pull a Hero's Comrades and awkwardly squish all Dark Dawn party members into a singular spirit?
 

jweb23

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
330
I take all rumors with a grain of salt, but assuming these insiders are correct about a new Golden Sun being developed then this is literally the best chance any Golden Sun character has at getting in. Recently in an interview staff of Monolith Soft talked about how Shulk's inclusion in Smash greatly boosted his popularity as well as the sales of their games. I find it hard to believe Nintendo would revive an old series in the middle of Smash DLC and not go to Sakurai for him to use one of the characters. I'm not gonna hype myself up, but this is promising news if legit.
 

Pinguino21v

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
413
Location
France
As for the spirits, if they want to keep a somewhat coherent level for Golden Sun spirits, compared to the existing one, they will need at least one 3 stars and one 4 stars, and they can't put Sheba and Piers at that level, that wouldn't be logical compared to Felix and Jenna.

My opinion is:
  • Sheba and Piers as 1 star
  • A "djinn set" with all 4 elements as 3 stars
  • Saturos and Menardi as 3 stars
    • Evolving into 4 stars Fusion Dragon
 

ZelDan

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 19, 2011
Messages
2,085
Location
New Hampshire
Although we would need a 4-star Legend for the Spirit Board. Maybe we could finally fight Alex as a Spirit!
Maybe they could do something like having Isaac and his group (Garet, Ivan, Mia) as a group like they did with the phantom thieves or Luminary and his group?

They could even use the GS1 box art for Isaac and co.

EDIT: although now that I think about it they already had a spirit battle with all 4 characters so maybe not...
 
Last edited:

MeatOfJustice

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
404
Location
Chile
The problem with this logic is that Sakurai made it very clear that Spring Man was one of if not the primary consideration from him, and only didn't get picked because Yabuki wanted Min Min. Therefore, he was not bothered one bit by Spring Man already being an assist trophy, so why should this affect whether Isaac gets picked or not over other GS characters?
Sakurai's primary consideration was Ninjara. He mentioned Spring Man because that's who most people think about as the main character of the game.

Although we would need a 4-star Legend for the Spirit Board. Maybe we could finally fight Alex as a Spirit!
There's a lot of candidates: Alex, the final bosses, Dullahan, Judgement (if it is the Final Smash), Iris or maybe the Wise One.
 
Last edited:

ZelDan

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 19, 2011
Messages
2,085
Location
New Hampshire
lol would you look at that, Claude's VA is also a fan of Golden Sun apparently :p
Joe Zieja's a really cool dude, so him being a GS fan would be awesome. (He'd also be a great VA for Isaac too I think)
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2014
Messages
1,291
NNID
SonicLink125
Adult Isaac could actually get his own spirit battle now that I think about it. It better be Cloud (Avent Children) blue color. He is considered one of THE best Spirits in Smash. ;)
 

Dorayaki

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
305
You don't seem to be arguing my point, you just refute the idea that Isaac could be both an Assist Trophy and a fighter while arguing hypotheticals and saying that the team cares deeply about characters not being both PCs and NPCs

I understand being skeptical, not everyone here is as optimistic as I and some others are. However, if you're not going to be arguing in good faith, I ask that you please stop with this argument. You are on a board specifically for supporting Isaac, who happens to be an Assist Trophy. The vast majority of us believe that doesn't matter. You may not agree, but your argument against it is flimsy and based on hypotheticals and assumptions about the dev team which have been proven to not be true. I don't want to discourage your participation on the board, the more the merrier, always, but at a point it seems as though you're only trolling or here to argue. I'm almost certain you're not doing either of those things, but if you refuse to engage in our points, then it's not a good argument.
Like stated, I think there are possibilities who could give GS fans the maximum win that include marginal benefits. In this case I think Issac as fighter with a different GS character is the case. I know not many would agree with idea here, it's my person wish to see that come true. Just to notice I don't want to be questioned my support for Issac even if I'm not happy about him trapped in AT now.
 
Joined
Jul 26, 2016
Messages
696
Like stated, I think there are possibilities who could give GS fans the maximum win that include marginal benefits. In this case I think Issac as fighter with a different GS character is the case. I know not many would agree with idea here, it's my person wish to see that come true. Just to notice I don't want to be questioned my support for Issac even if I'm not happy about him trapped in AT now.
I'm genuinely not sure what this means. I'm not questioning your support for Isaac, but I am questioning why you're bothering to argue this on the Isaac support thread, where it's in our best interest for your argument to be wrong.
 

Dorayaki

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 3, 2019
Messages
305
I'm genuinely not sure what this means. I'm not questioning your support for Isaac, but I am questioning why you're bothering to argue this on the Isaac support thread, where it's in our best interest for your argument to be wrong.
I get that. Sorry if that confuses, I hope this make an end to this part and let the discussion continue.
 

Metocles

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 1, 2018
Messages
271
Location
Pennsylvania
That would be great news if we get a Golden Sun HD. If that news is indeed true, it means that a team has been working on the upgrades to that game for a while. If the idea is to release it on the Switch, all the assets had to be touched at some point, which is actually quite a bit factoring in the Lost Age and all of its locales. It would be interesting to know the extent of the upgrade as well; do they make psynergy usable with the touchpad? Would there be new content added such as new menus or a straight merging of the two games into one, instead of utilizing the password system? To what extent do they go through the assets to make new sprites or pictures for them (Just think of all the random armor, weapons, usable items, gems just in the character menus. All of them have different artwork associated with them. Nearly all of the weapons get different weapon releases. All the summons). I would just hope they try to bring over the same kind of artstyle and shading from the originals and hopefully it doesn't end up looking too cartoon.

Regardless, this would be a thing that Nintendo asked for and something they'd know about. I've said it before, but a GS character should have already been in the game all the way back in Brawl. It had all of the successes and more than Pikmin, Fire Emblem or even F-Zero had up to that point. Pikmin specifically because both series' 1 & 2 game releases and numbers leading up to Brawl are so ridiculously comparable. GS even edged out Pikmin 1 & 2 with sales. Indeed, when Shulk was revealed for Sm4sh or Inklings or now Min Min revealed for Smash Ultimate, many had the same kind of feeling; that Isaac should have been alongside Olimar as the new character in Brawl. I know this is really looking at it in retrospect, because we weren't nearly as disappointed as we have been in the two smash releases since. I still do find it odd they just ignore GS on the whole; the character and series have retained popularity all the while through polling and fan demand for more games. In some ways, being the 1st party GS is and seeing everything else pass through the red velvet rope, it feels like we're on an island of sorts.
 
Last edited:

StrawHatX

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 27, 2018
Messages
1,016
Golden Sun remastered with the first two games combined into one like originally planned would be amazing and I hope that really is happening. The Switch is the perfect console to bring the series back. It’s been fantastic for RPG’s.

I think the thing I wonder about the most is if they do this and it’s successful and Nintendo wants to give the series more love what do you think the next plan of action would be? Do you think they would give Dark Dawn the same treatment or is it possible we just get another title that takes place before the events of the first games or sometime long after?

I enjoyed DD for what it was but I think it’s agreed upon by most of the fanbase that it was by far the weakest. Speaking for only myself I would be okay with them continuing the story or just taking it in a different direction. It doesn’t bother me either way.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 26, 2016
Messages
696
Isaac has always been just missing it with timing, if Melee released a year later, he'd probably have been on the roster, if Camelot didn't wait 8 years to make a sequel, he might've been added to Brawl as more than an Assist Trophy, if Dark Dawn had released on the 3DS, he might've made it into Smash 4. However, this is the perfect storm: a fanbase built up over years and years, a director wanting to please those fans, and a new game on the horizon Nintendo wants to promote. It'd be insane for Nintendo not to request Isaac.

Golden Sun remastered with the first two games combined into one like originally planned would be amazing and I hope that really is happening. The Switch is the perfect console to bring the series back. It’s been fantastic for RPG’s.

I think the thing I wonder about the most is if they do this and it’s successful and Nintendo wants to give the series more love what do you think the next plan of action would be? Do you think they would give Dark Dawn the same treatment or is it possible we just get another title that takes place before the events of the first games or sometime long after?

I enjoyed DD for what it was but I think it’s agreed upon by most of the fanbase that it was by far the weakest. Speaking for only myself I would be okay with them continuing the story or just taking it in a different direction. It doesn’t bother me either way.
My personal hope is that the prospective new game is TBS and TLA remade together. They can connect the two as they were always meant to be (as well as removing the stupid password) as well as introduce new fans to the beginning of the story. What's next could go one of two ways: either Dark Dawn is remastered on its own and put on Switch, or (my personal choice) it's remastered alongside a brand new game/expansion that would act as GS4.
 

jweb23

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
330
I think the thing I wonder about the most is if they do this and it’s successful and Nintendo wants to give the series more love what do you think the next plan of action would be? Do you think they would give Dark Dawn the same treatment or is it possible we just get another title that takes place before the events of the first games or sometime long after?
I enjoyed DD but as you said, I do consider it to be the weakest in the series by a wide margin. Plus I’m not a fan of the trope where “original protagonist grew older and had a kid (who is exactly the same as him) and now must complete the task even though the original protagonist is still in great health and could do it himself like last time.”

With that being said, I would want to watch Isaac and the others grow up and go on other adventures that takes place roughly 2-3 years after Lost Age. Maybe treat DD as a what if story because Isaac and Felix weren’t aware of a certain threat back then but a new type of psynergy has awakened in some individuals due to the lighthouses being lit and one way of using it allows the gift of fortune telling which is why we saw the events of DD as thIs fortune teller could be a new main protagonist who has to find Isaac and Felix to stop this possible future. Obviously just a random idea to not completely throw away DD, but clearly I would want a continuation of Isaac’s story over a sequel to DD.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
540
I enjoyed DD but as you said, I do consider it to be the weakest in the series by a wide margin. Plus I’m not a fan of the trope where “original protagonist grew older and had a kid (who is exactly the same as him) and now must complete the task even though the original protagonist is still in great health and could do it himself like last time.”

With that being said, I would want to watch Isaac and the others grow up and go on other adventures that takes place roughly 2-3 years after Lost Age. Maybe treat DD as a what if story because Isaac and Felix weren’t aware of a certain threat back then but a new type of psynergy has awakened in some individuals due to the lighthouses being lit and one way of using it allows the gift of fortune telling which is why we saw the events of DD as thIs fortune teller could be a new main protagonist who has to find Isaac and Felix to stop this possible future. Obviously just a random idea to not completely throw away DD, but clearly I would want a continuation of Isaac’s story over a sequel to DD.
Assuming we get a remake of GS1 and TLA, what if we get an alternate path rather than a direct remake of Dark Dawn? Maybe Isaac joins Matthew like you suggested, maybe Sveta is explicitly the protagonist instead of stealing the spotlight from Matthew, etc. Stuff like that.
 

ZelDan

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 19, 2011
Messages
2,085
Location
New Hampshire
If we ever do see a DD remake, please for the love of god let us see all of the original 8 characters and not just Isaac and Garet at the very beginning of the game.

Still probably one of my bigger gripes with DD, behind the points of no return (which would also ideally not be a thing in a remake).
 
Last edited:

jweb23

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
330
Assuming we get a remake of GS1 and TLA, what if we get an alternate path rather than a direct remake of Dark Dawn? Maybe Isaac joins Matthew like you suggested, maybe Sveta is explicitly the protagonist instead of stealing the spotlight from Matthew, etc. Stuff like that.
I don’t know. I’m open to anything new for Golden Sun but if I had to choose...I want the story to heavily involve Isaac and I don’t want him as a middle aged man with a kid who literally looks exactly like his teenaged self.

One of my biggest gripes with Dark Dawn was how it seemed like they were scared to make Matthew look unique from Isaac. I would have never guessed his mother was Jenna if the game didn’t tell us because he has NONE of her features. I would gladly accept a remake of DD if they altered Matthew’s look so he doesn’t just look like a modernized Isaac. You might as well just make a new story featuring a slightly older Isaac after Lost Age if their not gonna alter Matthew’s look. That’s just how I personally feel about it.
 

NessAtc.

Fukou Da...
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
683
Location
Vancouver Island
NNID
nintenstar98
3DS FC
4699-7691-7794
Switch FC
SW-2476-6260-3913
Sakurai's primary consideration was Ninjara. He mentioned Spring Man because that's who most people think about as the main character of the game.
He did not say his "primary consideration" was Ninjara at all. He said he would have liked Ninjara. He 100% would have liked Iori, but he felt Terry was the best character to add, which led to Iori getting that content over Kyo. This isn't any different, only in this case instead of Yabuki agreeing that Spring Man was the best choice, he put Min Min forward, since "everyone is a protagonist".
 
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
540
He did not say his "primary consideration" was Ninjara at all. He said he would have liked Ninjara. He 100% would have liked Iori, but he felt Terry was the best character to add, which led to Iori getting that content over Kyo. This isn't any different, only in this case instead of Yabuki agreeing that Spring Man was the best choice, he put Min Min forward, since "everyone is a protagonist".
He also didn't say he wanted Ninjara alone, but rather, he was in consideration alongside Min Min before Yabuki said "I want Min Min." Everyone's saying he wanted Ninjara specifically but that's not how it went.
 

Kalaam

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
576
Location
France
I have to stand up here, Matthew is very different from Isaac, though it's fairly subtle.
While they do look a lot alike (with minor differences like eye shape being closer to Jenna's) Matthew's characterization is way different. Thanks to the (albeit clumsy and poorly implemented) emotion answer system of the game. You can tell that Matthew is fairly insecure and tries very hard to live up to his dad's legacy. He's supposed to be the leader so he tries to act like his dad: determined, resolute and calm. (which we see Isaac as in TLA mostly, since in TBS his characterization is mostly made by Garet's comments). But Matthew is also prone to anger and frustration, if not just getting depressed from the pressure on his shoulders. The real moment where he lives up to his dad fully is
when he stops trying to do things by himself and instead of throwing himself desperatly into the light, assists Sveta by letting HER do it and "be the hero".

That's the way I interpret the games at least^^
 

jweb23

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
330
I have to stand up here, Matthew is very different from Isaac, though it's fairly subtle.
While they do look a lot alike (with minor differences like eye shape being closer to Jenna's) Matthew's characterization is way different. Thanks to the (albeit clumsy and poorly implemented) emotion answer system of the game. You can tell that Matthew is fairly insecure and tries very hard to live up to his dad's legacy. He's supposed to be the leader so he tries to act like his dad: determined, resolute and calm. (which we see Isaac as in TLA mostly, since in TBS his characterization is mostly made by Garet's comments). But Matthew is also prone to anger and frustration, if not just getting depressed from the pressure on his shoulders. The real moment where he lives up to his dad fully is
when he stops trying to do things by himself and instead of throwing himself desperatly into the light, assists Sveta by letting HER do it and "be the hero".

That's the way I interpret the games at least^^
Since your comment is clearly a response to mine...allow me to clarify.

I don’t dislike Matthew from a character/personality standpoint, I’m simply not a fan of his design. As with all forms of media, everyone’s likes and dislikes of something are subjective, which is why I tried to explain how these are just my personal feelings towards his design. I’m not trying to sway anyone’s opinions. I was just answering someone’s question on whether I would like a new story following shortly after the originals or a continuation of Dark Dawn.

I’ll leave this here to better explain my personal feelings towards Matthew’s design. As I said earlier, media is subjective and one trope I’m impartial to is the child of the former protagonist is now main protagonists trope. Some are done well and others are not. Unfortunately Matthew falls into a subsection of this trope when the child looks exactly like the former protagonist. I hate that version of the trope because to me personally it feels like lazy character design. It also makes it hard for me to connect with the new character because I’m constantly reminded of the former protagonist that I loved. It even makes me question what was the point of making this “new” character when they could have just expanded the story of the original and just update the former protagonist’s outfit.

And again, these are just my personal feelings towards the trope/cliche Matthew falls into. If you love Matthew, that’s great! I’m not here to change your opinion. We all love Golden Sun for various reasons, I just tend to be a bit more critical of this one thing. Lol
 

Kisae

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 14, 2014
Messages
169
NNID
Darkkisae
That's very very good news to hear that Golden Sun HD seems more and more real according to Nazyrus Nazyrus NoA insider. Hope we will get some information about a announcement or release anyway soon within this weird year.

You guys were talking about a possible spirit board. I would love to see Alex too in this. So that we can finally (on some way) beat his ass xDD. I agree with most of your choices about spirits. For a DD one I hesitate between Sveta and Amiti? (I have the French version of it and it's Haru)
 
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
540
For Alex's spirit battle i'd see a blue Corrin that constantly run away, sometimes shooting a water paralysis projectile, while Saturos/Menardi (Roy/Zelda) and then Agatio/Karts (Ganondorf/Lucina?) try to kick you out.
There is no Alex Spirit battle, you just get it for playing all three games and discovering that you never fight the guy even once.
 
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
540
When you buy Isaac, you automatically get the Alex Spirit, that way you can never fight him. Nothing more apropos than that.
And it's a Fighter Spirit even though he's not an actual fighter, so he's there but he can never be used.
Alternatively, he's a support Spirit that requires four slots even though no Spirit actually has four slots. There, now he exists and can never be used.
 
Top Bottom