Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Silo777]

At this point, Isaac’s chances rely entirely on whether a Golden Sun is being made. It’s his trump card, the thing that separates him from others. His “get out of assist trophy hell free” card, if you will. I stand by my opinion that we’re either gonna get nothing or everything. I can’t see Isaac happening without Golden Sun and I can’t see them not making the leap on Isaac if Golden Sun happens.

On the note of speed, I think Isaac might be weird and have relatively fast running speed but slow attacks. It’s odd because it’s not that Isaac is slow, it’s that his form of attacking is slow. Earth magic is almost never associated with speed, after all.

 

[NessAtc.]

At this point, Isaac’s chances rely entirely on whether a Golden Sun is being made. It’s his trump card, the thing that separates him from others. His “get out of assist trophy hell free” card, if you will. I stand by my opinion that we’re either gonna get nothing or everything. I can’t see Isaac happening without Golden Sun and I can’t see them not making the leap on Isaac if Golden Sun happens.

On the note of speed, I think Isaac might be weird and have relatively fast running speed but slow attacks. It’s odd because it’s not that Isaac is slow, it’s that his form of attacking is slow. Earth magic is almost never associated with speed, after all.

I disagree. He could get in without a new GS, it's just likely that it ended up he's coming with one

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I disagree. He could get in without a new GS, it's just likely that it ended up he's coming with one

I mean, we could also get a new GS and no playable Isaac. Personally, I put no stocks in the idea of Isaac as an advertisement character regardless of whether we get a new game announced this year or not.

 

[Silo777]

I disagree. He could get in without a new GS, it's just likely that it ended up he's coming with one

Obviously that could happen too. We could also get GS without Isaac, but I think that it’s most likely that they’ll go the whole distance considering how linked Golden Sun and Isaac are to Smash at this point.

 

[Nazyrus]

Both ways could go. If Nintendo sees the oportunity to shill the new or whatever GS game is coming, they would kill 2 birds with one stone like that.
But also if it has nothing to do with a game, they know smash DLC has more chances to sell if it pleases long time fan demanded characters. They can put isaac in for whichever reason, altho of course the first helps a bit more.

 

[Cadillac]

This was on Corrupt a Smash Wish. I wished for Hornet and Isaac, and I got this response.
If this actually happens, it's gonna be hilarious.

 

[FlawedAI]

I've always thought that Isaac is in a very unique position among every single even somewhat-common request: he has both the fan backing and the potential for cross-promotion. Both Corrin and Byleth were seen as "shill" picks because despite how well their games did, they weren't super common requests (Corrin much more so than Byleth, who was actually decently popular). However, Isaac can get in on fan merit alone, which separates him from needing a new game whereas someone like Andy would need a new Wars game to have a chance (sadly). Therefore, even if Nintendo doesn't view his fan merit alone worth consideration or doesn't consider cross-promotion alone worth consideration, the fact that they both could combine is, in my mind, our greatest strength. People love a revival story, from DOOM (2016) to Metroid to Donkey Kong Country, so Nintendo would be cashing in on nostalgia, fan demand, and cross-promotion if Isaac was added alongside a new GS.

Of course, that's dependent on a new Golden Sun, which is in no way a 100% guarantee. Personally, I think it's likely to happen, and with it Isaac in Smash, but if there's one thing that's for sure in Smash speculation, it's that nothing is for sure.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

I don't know about his horizontal speed, but I would expect high falling speed, because as an "earth mage" he would have a special connection to the ground and would rather be touching it. But if they go all out on that idea and he's bad on the air (as it is the opposite element on GS) he would end up as "sword/projectile Little Mac" and screw us all.

 

[Kalaam]

Well, the way isaac behave in the air could be that some of his abilities still emerge from the ground even in the air. So trying to juggle him is actually very dangerous. It would make landing from above relatively safe for Isaac, since the opponent wouldn't want to be rigth below him.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

I figured that Isaac's aerials could be the time where he could utilise the non venus psynergy since he isn't rooted to the ground in that state. So down air: planet diver, up air: astral blast, forward air: skull splitter, back air: crystal powder, neutral air: saber dance

 

[Kalaam]

That would work. I was thinking that some of the specials would still "fire" from the ground, like Quake for example. (In theory it would give Isaac the biggest range in the game)

 

[Xenigma]

Jumping back on the optimism train briefly: if we're right about new Golden Sun coming soon, Smash may well be part of the reason why, which in turn may have helped get Isaac into Smash. Aces should have been finishing primary development in early to mid 2018, and thus Camelot should have been busy pitching Nintendo options for their next project. At that specifc time, a Golden Sun pitch would be unusually strong: Switch RPGs like Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and Octopath Traveler were in the limelight, Smash was on its way and would likely contain Golden Sun content that would raise awareness of the franchise (even if Camelot didn't know exactly what that content was), and, while their last Golden Sun game was admittedly a flop, they were more than seven years and two systems removed from it. If their goal was to work on Golden Sun instead of Mario Golf or whatever else, I believe those are circumstances where they could get Nintendo to sign off on it.

From there, the logic for Isaac in Smash is easy. On one hand, you've got a resurgent fan community asking for Isaac in Smash, with numerous visible factors like the disappointment in the AT reveal, an unusually famous fake leak, and community efforts like Golden Sunday. On the other, you have Camelot actively making a Golden Sun game, so you can use that game to promote Smash DLC and vice versa. If you're Nintendo looking for characters to add in a theoretical FP2, Isaac seems like one of the easiest choices for that list. Then we have a lovely circle of cross-promotion: a Smash release that helped justify a new Golden Sun, which in turn helped justify Golden Sun DLC for Smash. Of course, we're still waiting for confirmation of that Golden Sun game or that Isaac DLC, but I don't need to remind y'all of the evidence pointing towards that new Golden Sun at the very least, and I'd absolutely consider that a win even if we don't get the Smash DLC.

 

[Kalaam]

This time, for once, the timing is just right. All conditions are here to make it possible and likely successful. If there is a time, it is now.

 

[FlawedAI]

It truly boggles my mind how many things are lining up for us. This may be the best position Golden Sun has been in since the release of TLA.

 

[Kalaam]

One could say it looks too good to be true. And maybe it does.
But as long as it's not disconfirmed, we are allowed to believe.

 

[N3ON]

So this optimism is on the back of maybe getting a new GS, yes? I guess I'll be the heavy again and caution that even if there is a new release, the only series that's actually helped so far in terms of DLC is Fire Emblem. The perfect time is not right now, it would've been in 2015, when the Ultimate roster was getting built. Or 2014. Maybe even 2016. Now we have to hope that a new release informs the DLC, when it didn't for XCX or Splatoon last time, it hasn't for Pokemon yet, it didn't for Astral Chain or any pre-DLC title. Nor will it likely with BotW2 or Paper Mario, or any other upcoming title.

A release in this phase is not so automatic as to be preferable to getting a GS game the year of or before a Smash roster gets built. That's perfect timing. This seems like a long shot, even with Isaac's popularity.

What really needs to be demonstrated with an impeding GS release is the series can still sell. Because I'm not going to hold my breath for any game correlating to DLC at this point, not even Pokemon. It's just so irregular. And because we're still in Ultimate's cycle, any games releasing right now are actually in a disadvantageous timeframe, as the next Smash game is presumably years away (they're not going to pull another Ultimate considering the Switch actually has legs).

Even ARMS and Astral Chain, despite being successful million+ sellers, don't have an assured future in Smash imo simply due to how many years of further developments await us. I would posit that they would need sequels to be considered safe inclusions at some point going forward.

So what needs to be proven is GS can still find success, because that will better assure it a future, and then that future can come to fruition within a timeframe actually beneficial for Smash. Now, given how low the bar is for first-parties at this point, and the fact that GS has had games in the past and Isaac is noted within the innermost part of the community, it's indeed possible an imminent release would be enough to secure a spot in a game even the better part of a decade away... but that's something worth hoping for, not counting on. Another game in the interim would be much more reassuring.

Either that or the game doesn't actually arrive until several years from now - closer to the next Smash, but then the possibility of DLC for this time, slim as that might be anyway, goes out the window. So as far as I can see, a Smash inclusion, in all likelihood, is a few steps away from just having another release... unless that release is far off in the distance.

 

[Cadillac]

So this optimism is on the back of maybe getting a new GS, yes? I guess I'll be the heavy again and caution that even if there is a new release, the only series that's actually helped so far in terms of DLC is Fire Emblem. The perfect time is not right now, it would've been in 2015, when the Ultimate roster was getting built. Or 2014. Maybe even 2016. Now we have to hope that a new release informs the DLC, when it didn't for XCX or Splatoon last time, it hasn't for Pokemon yet, it didn't for Astral Chain or any pre-DLC title. Nor will it likely with BotW2 or Paper Mario, or any other upcoming title.

A release in this phase is not so automatic as to be preferable to getting a GS game the year of or before a Smash roster gets built. That's perfect timing. This seems like a long shot, even with Isaac's popularity.

What really needs to be demonstrated with an impeding GS release is the series can still sell. Because I'm not going to hold my breath for any game correlating to DLC at this point, not even Pokemon. It's just so irregular. And because we're still in Ultimate's cycle, any games releasing right now are actually in a disadvantageous timeframe, as the next Smash game is presumably years away (they're not going to pull another Ultimate considering the Switch actually has legs).

Even ARMS and Astral Chain, despite being successful million+ sellers, don't have an assured future in Smash imo simply due to how many years of further developments await us. I would posit that they would need sequels to be considered safe inclusions at some point going forward.

So what needs to be proven is GS can still find success, because that will better assure it a future, and then that future can come to fruition within a timeframe actually beneficial for Smash. Now, given how low the bar is for first-parties at this point, and the fact that GS has had games in the past and Isaac is noted within the innermost part of the community, it's indeed possible an imminent release would be enough to secure a spot in a game even the better part of a decade away... but that's something worth hoping for, not counting on. Another game in the interim would be much more reassuring.

Either that or the game doesn't actually arrive until several years from now - closer to the next Smash, but then the possibility of DLC for this time, slim as that might be anyway, goes out the window. So as far as I can see, a Smash inclusion, in all likelihood, is a few steps away from just having another release... unless that release is far off in the distance.

The thing is though, we do not know when the second wave of DLC has been chosen. It was pre-Terry release, but I remember someone who said Isaac was never considered for base roster said Wave 2 haven't been discussed at all. And that was late November of 2018.

 

[Nazyrus]

So this optimism is on the back of maybe getting a new GS, yes? I guess I'll be the heavy again and caution that even if there is a new release, the only series that's actually helped so far in terms of DLC is Fire Emblem. The perfect time is not right now, it would've been in 2015, when the Ultimate roster was getting built. Or 2014. Maybe even 2016. Now we have to hope that a new release informs the DLC, when it didn't for XCX or Splatoon last time, it hasn't for Pokemon yet, it didn't for Astral Chain or any pre-DLC title. Nor will it likely with BotW2 or Paper Mario, or any other upcoming title.

A release in this phase is not so automatic as to be preferable to getting a GS game the year of or before a Smash roster gets built. That's perfect timing. This seems like a long shot, even with Isaac's popularity.

What really needs to be demonstrated with an impeding GS release is the series can still sell. Because I'm not going to hold my breath for any game correlating to DLC at this point, not even Pokemon. It's just so irregular. And because we're still in Ultimate's cycle, any games releasing right now are actually in a disadvantageous timeframe, as the next Smash game is presumably years away (they're not going to pull another Ultimate considering the Switch actually has legs).

Even ARMS and Astral Chain, despite being successful million+ sellers, don't have an assured future in Smash imo simply due to how many years of further developments await us. I would posit that they would need sequels to be considered safe inclusions at some point going forward.

So what needs to be proven is GS can still find success, because that will better assure it a future, and then that future can come to fruition within a timeframe actually beneficial for Smash. Now, given how low the bar is for first-parties at this point, and the fact that GS has had games in the past and Isaac is noted within the innermost part of the community, it's indeed possible an imminent release would be enough to secure a spot in a game even the better part of a decade away... but that's something worth hoping for, not counting on. Another game in the interim would be much more reassuring.

Either that or the game doesn't actually arrive until several years from now - closer to the next Smash, but then the possibility of DLC for this time, slim as that might be anyway, goes out the window. So as far as I can see, a Smash inclusion, in all likelihood, is a few steps away from just having another release... unless that release is far off in the distance.

I don't think anyone is "counting on it" here, but more like, if a game happened, the chances would be "better" than without a game.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

So this optimism is on the back of maybe getting a new GS, yes? I guess I'll be the heavy again and caution that even if there is a new release, the only series that's actually helped so far in terms of DLC is Fire Emblem. The perfect time is not right now, it would've been in 2015, when the Ultimate roster was getting built. Or 2014. Maybe even 2016. Now we have to hope that a new release informs the DLC, when it didn't for XCX or Splatoon last time, it hasn't for Pokemon yet, it didn't for Astral Chain or any pre-DLC title. Nor will it likely with BotW2 or Paper Mario, or any other upcoming title.

A release in this phase is not so automatic as to be preferable to getting a GS game the year of or before a Smash roster gets built. That's perfect timing. This seems like a long shot, even with Isaac's popularity.

What really needs to be demonstrated with an impeding GS release is the series can still sell. Because I'm not going to hold my breath for any game correlating to DLC at this point, not even Pokemon. It's just so irregular. And because we're still in Ultimate's cycle, any games releasing right now are actually in a disadvantageous timeframe, as the next Smash game is presumably years away (they're not going to pull another Ultimate considering the Switch actually has legs).

Even ARMS and Astral Chain, despite being successful million+ sellers, don't have an assured future in Smash imo simply due to how many years of further developments await us. I would posit that they would need sequels to be considered safe inclusions at some point going forward.

So what needs to be proven is GS can still find success, because that will better assure it a future, and then that future can come to fruition within a timeframe actually beneficial for Smash. Now, given how low the bar is for first-parties at this point, and the fact that GS has had games in the past and Isaac is noted within the innermost part of the community, it's indeed possible an imminent release would be enough to secure a spot in a game even the better part of a decade away... but that's something worth hoping for, not counting on. Another game in the interim would be much more reassuring.

Either that or the game doesn't actually arrive until several years from now - closer to the next Smash, but then the possibility of DLC for this time, slim as that might be anyway, goes out the window. So as far as I can see, a Smash inclusion, in all likelihood, is a few steps away from just having another release... unless that release is far off in the distance.

I’m glad you made this post, as I never really put much stock in the idea of Isaac as an advertisement character for the precise reason you noted. Strong demand and nothing else is what we need to rely on.

 

[NessAtc.]

It's more or less an amalgamation of factors rather than just one thing. The main thing that would bring Isaac into DLC would be the fan demand bringing him into consideration in the first place. Being able to market it is just another factor. Not one person in this thread to my recollection has hinged Isaac's chances solely off of a new game existing.

 

[N3ON]

The thing is though, we do not know when the second wave of DLC has been chosen. It was pre-Terry release, but I remember someone who said Isaac was never considered for base roster said Wave 2 haven't been discussed at all. And that was late November of 2018.

This seems to highlight the thinking endemic of the sentiment, which is that all that needs to line up is the timing. Even if the timing for being chosen for DLC was perfect, the bigger obstacle is actually being chosen. When it comes to making decisions based on what lines up, the only tangible examples are both Fire Emblem, not the myriad of other options that didn't come to fruition.

People extolling the timing as if it were the only relevant facet but are foregoing the fact that promo DLC in and of itself is hardly a common occurrence.

I don't think anyone is "counting on it" here, but more like, if a game happened, the chances would be "better" than without a game.

The three posts above mine said how all elements lined up and how all conditions make it a likely outcome. That's it seems too good to be true. At the top of the page someone said that a new game is a "get out of AT free card". The person underneath that said we didn't even need the new game.

I agree not everyone is so... confident, but I'm sorry, I don't think I overstated anything. And yeah, obviously a new game can only increase chances, but that's a bit of a strawman considering I didn't contest such a thing.

I’m glad you made this post, as I never really put much stock in the idea of Isaac as an advertisement character for the precise reason you noted. Strong demand and nothing else is what we need to rely on.

I mean, I don't set out to rain on peoples' parades, but it just seemed a fairly crucial element was being overlooked.

It's more or less an amalgamation of factors rather than just one thing. The main thing that would bring Isaac into DLC would be the fan demand bringing him into consideration in the first place. Being able to market it is just another factor. Not one person in this thread to my recollection has hinged Isaac's chances solely off of a new game existing.

You literally replied to someone who said that at the top of the page.

 

[FlawedAI]

So this optimism is on the back of maybe getting a new GS, yes? I guess I'll be the heavy again and caution that even if there is a new release, the only series that's actually helped so far in terms of DLC is Fire Emblem. The perfect time is not right now, it would've been in 2015, when the Ultimate roster was getting built. Or 2014. Maybe even 2016. Now we have to hope that a new release informs the DLC, when it didn't for XCX or Splatoon last time, it hasn't for Pokemon yet, it didn't for Astral Chain or any pre-DLC title. Nor will it likely with BotW2 or Paper Mario, or any other upcoming title.

A release in this phase is not so automatic as to be preferable to getting a GS game the year of or before a Smash roster gets built. That's perfect timing. This seems like a long shot, even with Isaac's popularity.

What really needs to be demonstrated with an impeding GS release is the series can still sell. Because I'm not going to hold my breath for any game correlating to DLC at this point, not even Pokemon. It's just so irregular. And because we're still in Ultimate's cycle, any games releasing right now are actually in a disadvantageous timeframe, as the next Smash game is presumably years away (they're not going to pull another Ultimate considering the Switch actually has legs).

Even ARMS and Astral Chain, despite being successful million+ sellers, don't have an assured future in Smash imo simply due to how many years of further developments await us. I would posit that they would need sequels to be considered safe inclusions at some point going forward.

So what needs to be proven is GS can still find success, because that will better assure it a future, and then that future can come to fruition within a timeframe actually beneficial for Smash. Now, given how low the bar is for first-parties at this point, and the fact that GS has had games in the past and Isaac is noted within the innermost part of the community, it's indeed possible an imminent release would be enough to secure a spot in a game even the better part of a decade away... but that's something worth hoping for, not counting on. Another game in the interim would be much more reassuring.

Either that or the game doesn't actually arrive until several years from now - closer to the next Smash, but then the possibility of DLC for this time, slim as that might be anyway, goes out the window. So as far as I can see, a Smash inclusion, in all likelihood, is a few steps away from just having another release... unless that release is far off in the distance.

While I think it's important to maintain expectations, I think it's also ok for us to get excited. We haven't even been close to something good happening to us for years.

I believe it's been said that a series having a future is important for Smash. I agree. A new game, however, is a future. While Corrin may have been added after Fates was out and a big success in Japan, Byleth was planned before Three Houses was out anywhere. While Fire Emblem is obviously a big series, Three Houses' success was not 100%, nothing is. So it's not out of the question for a game not released to have a character in Smash. It's more likely for a bigger series like FE to have this happen, but the point was that Isaac's fan demand combined with a new game would be enough for Nintendo to push for him.

 

[Nazyrus]

While I think it's important to maintain expectations, I think it's also ok for us to get excited. We haven't even been close to something good happening to us for years.

I believe it's been said that a series having a future is important for Smash. I agree. A new game, however, is a future. While Corrin may have been added after Fates was out and a big success in Japan, Byleth was planned before Three Houses was out anywhere. While Fire Emblem is obviously a big series, Three Houses' success was not 100%, nothing is. So it's not out of the question for a game not released to have a character in Smash. It's more likely for a bigger series like FE to have this happen, but the point was that Isaac's fan demand combined with a new game would be enough for Nintendo to push for him.

Probably the most fair points right there.

 

[N3ON]

While I think it's important to maintain expectations, I think it's also ok for us to get excited. We haven't even been close to something good happening to us for years.

Idk, fall 2018 seemed far closer than anything that's going on right at this moment.

I believe it's been said that a series having a future is important for Smash. I agree. A new game, however, is a future. While Corrin may have been added after Fates was out and a big success in Japan, Byleth was planned before Three Houses was out anywhere. While Fire Emblem is obviously a big series, Three Houses' success was not 100%, nothing is. So it's not out of the question for a game not released to have a character in Smash. It's more likely for a bigger series like FE to have this happen, but the point was that Isaac's fan demand combined with a new game would be enough for Nintendo to push for him.

Well, you're acknowledging the importance of maintaining expectations, but the expectations here seem to be:

• that is there is a new game
• that Nintendo cares about this game/and or the fanbase enough to inform Sakurai of its immanency (he would've had to know since last year), which means presumably not a remake, but an actual new game
• that Nintendo has decided to push Isaac, when Nintendo pushing anyone is rare. And perhaps most critically
• that all this stuff is not merely a long shot, otherwise people wouldn't be getting excited. Because let's be real, people don't generally get excited about things they believe are unlikely.

I'm happy people are still passionate about Isaac, but if these are the kind of expectations you want to maintain, it's for sure putting the cart before the horse. Even just expecting a new game is putting the cart before the horse, let alone all those resulting corollaries.

These are not reasonable expectations. This is a possible but unlikely outcome being given far too much credence simply because it's what people want to happen. I'd like it to happen too, but that doesn't mean I think there's anything more than a very slim chance of it.

I mean I've been in this thread long enough to tell the difference between people spitballing theories and people lending plausibility to an idea. And don't get me wrong, not everyone in here is getting swept up, some people are just entertaining the notion, but there are some posts on this page that are almost celebratory, or are equating a new game to an inevitable inclusion, and that's a bit much for an outcome this remote.

 

[Xenigma]

I don't know about everyone else in the thread, but I'll reiterate that my current belief is that nothing is guaranteed and that we shouldn't expect anything. My post earlier today came from a simple place: I wanted to share what I think is a pretty neat cycle of events that might currently be in motion, not that I believe my theory is necessarily true. Sure, we have some interesting events of late that could be pointing to something Golden Sun-related (primarily Camelot's deafening silence and the new copyright), but that doesn't guarantee that there is any Golden Sun news to speak of. Heck, even if a game is on the way, it doesn't imply that Isaac was ever considered for FP2, as we can't say for certain who was involved in selecting the characters, when that planning happened, and what reasons they may have had for their choices. I believe my theory is sound, but it nevertheless makes significant assumptions, any of which could be completely off the mark.

I also recognize that, at the end of the day, we're just a bunch of Golden Sun fans who are starved for any good news for our dead/dormant franchise, and speculating about potential good news is fun! We're currently in uncharted waters, both with Camelot having gone nearly two years without a new game on the calendar and a Smash game enjoying an extended, and frankly very long, DLC schedule. Given that, I for one certainly enjoy weighing potential evidence and trying to figure out what may happen next. If nothing else it helps with the waiting, and if we happen to get any of it right, all the better!

 

[Silo777]

At the top of the page someone said that a new game is a "get out of AT free card".

I don’t want to be “that guy” but you sorta just plucked a quote from my post without any of the context behind it.

I was strictly talking about in comparison to other ATs in that post, not in general. Of course I don’t believe Isaac is 100% guaranteed if Golden Sun happens. Specifically, I said that it was his best bet for getting into the second fighter pass and that it would set him apart from the other ATs, not that I think a new game would make a miracle happen and make Isaac suddenly Nintendo’s top priority overnight. What I was trying to get across is that assuming assist trophies were to get in this pass, I can’t see Isaac happening without Golden Sun. If it’s all up to fan demand I fully believe Waluigi would get the spot unless they really wanted a new franchise, unfortunately. I’m saying Isaac needs the extra leg up on people like Waluigi by having something like a new game. If Isaac wants to get into this second pass, one of two things need to happen:

1: The support and outcry for Isaac was enough for them to throw us a bone and put him in to please fans.

2: Something else happens that, when combined with his popularity, gives Nintendo a new reason to consider him again.

That “something else” can’t be much other than a new game, really.

Anyway, I do think you make some valid points. However, I don’t think your comparisons are completely valid here due to the fact that this is sorta unprecedented territory. There’s never been a second fighter pass, we still have no idea what Nintendo is planning to do with it and how it differentiates itself from the first. As such, comparing this with Sm4sh’s DLC or even Fighter Pass 1 doesn’t really apply anymore.

Secondly, I think you’re treating Golden Sun as if it was any other Nintendo IP that was happening to get a game. While that might be true, it also might be true that this new game is happening mostly due to Smash. Because that’s the case, it’s not really the same as Astral Chain, ARMS, Splatoon, etc etc. To add to that, those were all brand new IPs, which Nintendo has never promoted in Smash before. Golden Sun is a series that’s returning after being dormant for a decade, so it’s not the same situation.

I’m not saying I think your arguments have no merit or they’re wrong, they’re just based on things that don’t necessarily apply. I do agree that the timing isn’t the absolute best case scenario, but it’s also not terrible. Better than having a game a year or so from now, I’d say. Given all of that, I personally think Isaac is just as likely to be picked to advertise Golden Sun as he is not to. That is to say I don’t really know what’s gonna happen of course, but it’s safe to say that a new Golden Sun is pretty beneficial to his chances. Again, it’s not necessarily entirely about him being picked to be an advertisement. It’s about them having a new reason to reconsider him. Something that he didn’t have before.

 

[Cadillac]

Anyone remember this classic?

 

[clearandsweet]

Idk, fall 2018 seemed far closer than anything that's going on right at this moment.


Well, you're acknowledging the importance of maintaining expectations, but the expectations here seem to be:

• that is there is a new game
• that Nintendo cares about this game/and or the fanbase enough to inform Sakurai of its immanency (he would've had to know since last year), which means presumably not a remake, but an actual new game
• that Nintendo has decided to push Isaac, when Nintendo pushing anyone is rare. And perhaps most critically
• that all this stuff is not merely a long shot, otherwise people wouldn't be getting excited. Because let's be real, people don't generally get excited about things they believe are unlikely.

I think it's justified.

• that is there is a new game

I find this one the easiest and most confident to call. Camelot and EPD2 are working. They have been for two years. They are working on something. It is 100% a video game for the Nintendo Switch. Hardly contestable, no? You don't sit around with nothing to show for it unless you're Retro.

Camelot makes Mario Golf/Tennis and Golden Sun. They theoretically could be doing Everybody's Golf or another non-Nintendo project, but as I said, EPD2, the group who has always worked with Camelot, has a timeline that matches exactly with Camelot's silence.

The other very safe assumption is that Camelot is working on Golden Sun over Mario Golf. We've talked this one to death on this thread and I brought it up in my video. There's a lot of evidence, including this taking far longer than we would expect to put out a Mario Golf game with the assets and code of Mario Tennis already available, the copyright, the previous sales of those two franchises, the sales of Switch RPGs at the time, ect. It's far more likely that it's Golden Sun at this point, though we all acknowledge it could be Mario Golf.

And I suppose it would be hypothetically possible to assign Camelot and EPD2 to an entirely new IP for Nintendo, but everything about that seems far riskier. Unless the Takahashi siblings themselves pushed it, I can't imagine that's a possibility. There's so many interviews where they talk about how they love making RPGs, how the story of Golden Sun isn't finished, how they love when the fans enjoy their worlds. And they've literally never done this.

• that Nintendo cares about this game/and or the fanbase enough to inform Sakurai of its immanency (he would've had to know since last year), which means presumably not a remake, but an actual new game

It is true that we have no direct evidence of any information sharing or relationship, but I don't find it too absurd that Sakurai would know about it or that Nintendo would value it enough.

Some thoughts are that he clearly has friends around the industry, even outside of Nintendo (Kojima, Suda, ect) He also works in Tokyo instead of Kyoto. Even before he was a god-celebrity-figure, he had friends at IS who let him know about Roy and include him.

Furthermore, one of his oldest connections, a composer that he's repeatedly relied on for 20 years now and whose work he is very familiar with, would be doing soundtrack for this new game.

To the point about how much Nintendo would value Golden Sun and put his name down on a list of DLC, well, you've got the results of the fan campaigns/release for Ultimate hype/leaks (I would say very successful at bringing the franchise to the forefront, having been on the inside), and that comment that Furukawa was looking to release more 3DS franchises to highlight the portability of the Switch. It's circumstantial, but it's telling me the circumstances are that guy at the top making all the relevant decisions took a look at their library of unused franchises and said "yeah gimme more of those ones that work good handheld like RPGs and Brain Age."

• that Nintendo has decided to push Isaac, when Nintendo pushing anyone is rare. And perhaps most critically

This is fair and true. Maybe 4 out of ~80 picks have been shill picks. Corrin, Byleth, Roy, arguably Greninja.

I suppose it helps then that Isaac has all the support and fan demand needed of a non-shill pick. We can see this in polls from 2015 and forum posts since Brawl. The thought is that being a shill possibility AND longtime fan demand would make an Adept a no-brainer.

• that all this stuff is not merely a long shot, otherwise people wouldn't be getting excited. Because let's be real, people don't generally get excited about things they believe are unlikely.

You seem to imply that these feelings are unsupported. I'll admit our expectations certainly can be wrong or otherwise misinterpretations of the situations. Nothing's guaranteed. Everyone knows this and we're fully expecting to be disappointed again.

But I would say after looking at the evidence, the most logical response is a bit of hope/optimism.

 

[Nazyrus]

I think it's justified.

• that is there is a new game

I find this one the easiest and most confident to call. Camelot and EPD2 are working. They have been for two years. They are working on something. It is 100% a video game for the Nintendo Switch. Hardly contestable, no? You don't sit around with nothing to show for it unless you're Retro.

Camelot makes Mario Golf/Tennis and Golden Sun. They theoretically could be doing Everybody's Golf or another non-Nintendo project, but as I said, EPD2, the group who has always worked with Camelot, has a timeline that matches exactly with Camelot's silence.

The other very safe assumption is that Camelot is working on Golden Sun over Mario Golf. We've talked this one to death on this thread and I brought it up in my video. There's a lot of evidence, including this taking far longer than we would expect to put out a Mario Golf game with the assets and code of Mario Tennis already available, the copyright, the previous sales of those two franchises, the sales of Switch RPGs at the time, ect. It's far more likely that it's Golden Sun at this point, though we all acknowledge it could be Mario Golf.

And I suppose it would be hypothetically possible to assign Camelot and EPD2 to an entirely new IP for Nintendo, but everything about that seems far riskier. Unless the Takahashi siblings themselves pushed it, I can't imagine that's a possibility. There's so many interviews where they talk about how they love making RPGs, how the story of Golden Sun isn't finished, how they love when the fans enjoy their worlds. And they've literally never done this.

• that Nintendo cares about this game/and or the fanbase enough to inform Sakurai of its immanency (he would've had to know since last year), which means presumably not a remake, but an actual new game

It is true that we have no direct evidence of any information sharing or relationship, but I don't find it too absurd that Sakurai would know about it or that Nintendo would value it enough.

Some thoughts are that he clearly has friends around the industry, even outside of Nintendo (Kojima, Suda, ect) He also works in Tokyo instead of Kyoto. Even before he was a god-celebrity-figure, he had friends at IS who let him know about Roy and include him.

Furthermore, one of his oldest connections, a composer that he's repeatedly relied on for 20 years now and whose work he is very familiar with, would be doing soundtrack for this new game.

To the point about how much Nintendo would value Golden Sun and put his name down on a list of DLC, well, you've got the results of the fan campaigns/release for Ultimate hype/leaks (I would say very successful at bringing the franchise to the forefront, having been on the inside), and that comment that Furukawa was looking to release more 3DS franchises to highlight the portability of the Switch. It's circumstantial, but it's telling me the circumstances are that guy at the top making all the relevant decisions took a look at their library of unused franchises and said "yeah gimme more of those ones that work good handheld like RPGs and Brain Age."

• that Nintendo has decided to push Isaac, when Nintendo pushing anyone is rare. And perhaps most critically

This is fair and true. Maybe 4 out of ~80 picks have been shill picks. Corrin, Byleth, Roy, arguably Greninja.

I suppose it helps then that Isaac has all the support and fan demand needed of a non-shill pick. We can see this in polls from 2015 and forum posts since Brawl. The thought is that being a shill possibility AND longtime fan demand would make an Adept a no-brainer.

• that all this stuff is not merely a long shot, otherwise people wouldn't be getting excited. Because let's be real, people don't generally get excited about things they believe are unlikely.

You seem to imply that these feelings are unsupported. I'll admit our expectations certainly can be wrong or otherwise misinterpretations of the situations. Nothing's guaranteed. Everyone knows this and we're fully expecting to be disappointed again.

But I would say after looking at the evidence, the most logical response is a bit of hope/optimism.

Absolute truth right here.

To add to the last points you covered: I mean, this character has been almost smelling K Rool's butt in every single poll (by that I mean how close he has been to the top for the longest time already), so if you add to that something to shill, it's really a no brainer. And it's true, a lot of fandoms in smash misinterpret and reach and get stuff wrong all the time, but in our case we have really some solid stuff to look forward to at the moment, therefore a justified reason for hope and optimism. Besides if we can't enjoy this hope and optimism then there would be no reason to hang around here in the first place and just let the thread die. It's a character support thread, if we get **** blocked by every thing we try to look at with a positive value, then how can we continue to do our thing? and by no means in our case we are supporting this character or his franchise with blind optimism, AT ALL.

Btw nice video! It's crazy to think we still have stuff to add to that video to this day (like the new trademark getting finally approved near the end of last year). Maybe one day we will have a full history video with finally a happy ending in it

 

[Silo777]

I think it's justified.

• that is there is a new game

I find this one the easiest and most confident to call. Camelot and EPD2 are working. They have been for two years. They are working on something. It is 100% a video game for the Nintendo Switch. Hardly contestable, no? You don't sit around with nothing to show for it unless you're Retro.

Camelot makes Mario Golf/Tennis and Golden Sun. They theoretically could be doing Everybody's Golf or another non-Nintendo project, but as I said, EPD2, the group who has always worked with Camelot, has a timeline that matches exactly with Camelot's silence.

The other very safe assumption is that Camelot is working on Golden Sun over Mario Golf. We've talked this one to death on this thread and I brought it up in my video. There's a lot of evidence, including this taking far longer than we would expect to put out a Mario Golf game with the assets and code of Mario Tennis already available, the copyright, the previous sales of those two franchises, the sales of Switch RPGs at the time, ect. It's far more likely that it's Golden Sun at this point, though we all acknowledge it could be Mario Golf.

This.

We’re not getting excited because something will happen, we’re getting excited because something finally could happen. That hasn’t been the case in a long while.

Also, let’s not forget that the developer themselves said point blank that a new game would follow if enough demand was shown for it. How very convenient that this is seeming to be the most likely Golden Sun has been in a while and it’s right after the most popular GS has been in a decade.

There was a clear reference in Aces, we know Camelot hasn’t forgotten. Now we just wait and see.

 

[Xenigma]

[We’re not getting excited because something will happen, we’re getting excited because something finally could happen. That hasn’t been the case in a long while.

That's the other critical part. Two of my favorite Nintendo series are F-Zero and Advance Wars, and as much as I'd love to see them get revived, I'm unaware of any reason either would appear any time soon. They're dead (dormant if you're being charitable), and I accept that I shouldn't expect anything from them. Golden Sun, on the other hand, appears to have a real chance. I think we all understand how wrong we could be (Isaac for Smash supporters have certainly been disappointed enough times), but there's nothing wrong with enjoying this possibility while it lasts.

 

[Metocles]

Some musing reading through the last page or two and thinking about the Switch as a system. By the way, clearandsweet , that's and absolutely fantastic video you put out.

It does seem strange that Nintendo and the Switch haven't taken more advantage of RPGs on the system seeing as they've been great successes. Octopath Traveler, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and the Final Fantasy re-releases were mentioned, but there's also Fire Emblem, Dragon Quest XI S, Sword and Shield, Trials of Mana Remake coming up, and few others by some 3rd parties like Digimon Cybersleuth. Of those, XC2, Pokemon and FE are the only ones from Nintendo and aren't typical turn-based JRPGs. We've hammered it like a bent nail in these threads (so have I), but it does seem strange that Nintendo doesn't take more advantage of effectively their only IP left that has some kind of track record in this area in Golden Sun. (Earthbound saga is done)

The Switch is the perfect system for a Golden Sun too, playing in docked mode or on the go with the tablet. You could really implement puzzle elements like we saw so thoroughly done in Breath of the Wild. Ridiculous summon videos eviscerating enemies in beautiful updated fidelity on a large TV screen would really blow our minds away once again, just like it did in the originals. And, I don't know about the rest of you, but so far the Switch has been sort of lame keeping up the quantity in the gaming department. I have most of the heavy hitters they released, but that really only amounts to those I can count on both my hands. Golden Sun's story isn't complete, the progression of the gameplay hasn't been excavated nearly enough and I can't fill that hole in my Golden Sun heart if there's not so much as an attempt using all the time, sweat and resources Camelot can handle.

 

[Kalaam]

And then the game gets as much aliazing as Fire Emblem 3H.

 

[Silo777]

Golden Sun could be a goddamn breathtaking game visually if they put enough into it. Some of the scenery and locations in the game are jaw dropping even on the GBA, such as the elemental star chamber.

 

[Nazyrus]

It really does make you wonder how an rpg by Camelot would look like these days, it's been a freaking while.

 

[Kalaam]

Well, Tennis Aces looks rather good tbh.

Spoiler: Image

 

[FlawedAI]

I think it's probably likely that a new GS would look pretty good, not BotW amazing, but probably not 3H bad. Camelot's budget probably wouldn't be too huge (especially if IntSys didn't get enough to make 3H look even somewhat visually appealing on closer inspection) but a clear art style and vibrant colors are very important to Golden Sun. If they use that beautiful watercolor style the official art has from the GBA days (similar to the Mystery Dungeon remake, but not quite a stylized) I think that'd look amazing and be a great callback to the series' roots.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Camelot's games always look pretty good on the consoles they're on. I'm not expecting Golden Sun to be a complete graphical breakthrough for the Switch but with their track record I'm expecting the game to look somewhat pretty

 

[SonicLink125]

Camelot's games always look pretty good on the consoles they're on. I'm not expecting Golden Sun to be a complete graphical breakthrough for the Switch but with their track record I expecting the game to look somewhat pretty

Definitely. Even Dark Dawn looks good for a DS game. I have no doubt a new Golden Sun will look great.

 

[FlawedAI]

I watched the Alpharad Plus episode on the GBA's Mario Golf game and I was actually surprised at how Golden Sun-like it was. The spritework, dialogue sounds, and even the dialogue itself felt so familiar, even though I've never played a Mario Golf game, much less the GBA one. I think this goes to show just how distinct Camelot's style RPG is. It's such a shame we don't get to really experience it anymore.