Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Gioka]

"first franchise in this speculation cycle to get two songs in the page"?! I'm not even going to attempt at answering this. If people are mad about this, they really need to remind themselves the world doesn't turn around them.

Ok...? Well, I was just pointing out that it was something people were mad about and that said it happened because Sakurai loves Fire Emblem. Not that I have a problem with that in particular, as I said, Fire Emblem is one of my favorite franchises and I am A ok! with all the love it has received so far, I'd like people not hating it that much because it detracts them of trying the games, but I can understand where the hate comes from. Like I said, we have Fire Emblem getting 2 newcomers and an echo in the past game and a new echo in this one while a franchise like Zelda hasn't had a new rep since Brawl (who was another Link) at the same time of being one of the biggest Nintendo hits.

Edit: Wording

 

[tbuster766]

"first franchise in this speculation cycle to get two songs in the page"?! I'm not even going to attempt at answering this. If people are mad about this, they really need to remind themselves the world doesn't turn around them.

Maybe I shouldn't have said "special treatment", but there could have easily been far better representation in the Fire Emblem series to begin with. We have the weapon triangle for crying out loud, and the fact that we only got sword users to represent them is kinda sad imo. I am glad that characters like Robin got in to rep the series as they bring more diversity to the table. However, I really saw no reason for Corrin to be added as a DLC character (sorry to anybody who likes Corrin). Fire Emblem If/Fates was a new game and didn't need the promotion no matter how you look at it.

Edit: Also I'm not hating on it, just can't get board on the idea. This is honestly how I feel about the FE representation. Doesn't mean I think the world revolves around me or anything.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Awakening was responsible for putting Fire Emblem back on the map. I'd say it deserved three characters. Plus, two of them are only low-resource clones, so I don't see what the big deal is.

Um, no, it definitely doesn't deserve three characters for that. That's completely stupid.


That has nothing to do with why they got in either. They got in because two were easy clones to fill roster gaps. That's literally it.


Awakening deserved a character for putting FE on the map, and it did. The others are just bonuses. If any game doing surprisingly well made that game "deserve" three characters, Rhythm Heaven and GS would both have at least a character in Smash right now.

 

[KoopaSaki]

All I’m wondering about is the whole Isaac becoming dlc theory. I’m speculating that next year in 2019 could bring forth this possibly after reading that golden sun google doc.

We potentially get a dlc golden sun rep as it could be Isaac or Matthew getting in or a different character like gs4 protagonist.

Camelot may have been given the green light on a new golden sun after that rathalos tweet and the grinch leak brought more attention to Isaac being in smash then ever before and rallying the golden sun fanbase back together.

I’m honestly hoping these aren’t pipe dreams and have a chance of occurring.

 

[ZelDan]

when it comes to FE, I'm not really against it's representation from a quantity standpoint, but from what actual characters they chose. I have nothing against Awakening, though I don't think it needed 3 reps. Honestly, if they replaced the Robins with Lyn, replace Chrom or Lucina with Edelgard (who'd have to be DLC), and make Chrom/Lucina more unique, then it wouldn't be as bad, since atleast more of the FE series would be represented, and there'd be less clones.

 

[Ninjaed]

The Rathalos tweet, the Grinch leak, the numerous polls on the net, Golden Sunday... I'd say it's safe to assume Nintendo is aware of Isaac being popular. If I were Nintendo, the one thing I'd be wondering is: is it a fad? Is is it bandwagoning that will fade after Smash Ultimate (+ DLC) is out? Because if it is, I wouldn't really care. Golden Sunday is perhaps the one event that could tell them "they're asking for more Golden Sun, not just Isaac in Smash". If we keep making noise should we get nothing, then they'd know it's no fad.

when it comes to FE, I'm not really against it's representation from a quantity standpoint, but from what actual characters they chose. I have nothing against Awakening, though I don't think it needed 3 reps. Honestly, if they replaced the Robins with Lyn, replace Chrom or Lucina with Edelgard (who'd have to be DLC), and make Chrom/Lucina more unique, then it wouldn't be as bad, since atleast more of the FE series would be represented, and there'd be less clones.

The Robins are fine. Lucina should have been an alt costume for Marth (she's never been one, she has always been a clone, I don't know what you're on about?) like Alph is for Olimar. Corrin and Ike are 100% unique, Roy is now unique enough to stay. Chrom shouldn't have gotten in (or as an alt costume), Hector or Ephraim would have been better choices as they represent more of the weapon triangle. Them or Edelgard.

This would've been good rep I believe. Nintendo is making them one of their big IPs - and there's FEH too, so it's fine that it gets a few more reps... just not Chrom and Lucina, not like this.

 

[KoopaSaki]

I hope that Chrom argument is being a mii costume and in robins final smash holds some actual weight though I wonder if that’s only because Chrom is an echo and easier to develop. I’m totally theorizing he was one of the last characters rushed into the game given those factors.

 

[Tetiro]

The Rathalos tweet, the Grinch leak, the numerous polls on the net, Golden Sunday... I'd say it's safe to assume Nintendo is aware of Isaac being popular. If I were Nintendo, the one thing I'd be wondering is: is it a fad? Is is it bandwagoning that will fade after Smash Ultimate (+ DLC) is out? Because if it is, I wouldn't really care. Golden Sunday is perhaps the one event that could tell them "they're asking for more Golden Sun, not just Isaac in Smash". If we keep making noise should we get nothing, then they'd know it's no fad..

Exactly this. Everything is a numbers game and for the numbers to line up right Nintendo needs to see our numbers are averaging good results. So
we will be doing Golden Sunday again and again making it apparent we exist

 

[Undella2]

The Robins are fine. Lucina should have been an alt costume for Marth (she's never been one, she has always been a clone, I don't know what you're on about?)

When Smash 4 was in development, Lucina and Dark Pit were apparently originally alt costumes, but Sakurai had them turned into clones instead because the development team had a small amount of extra time.

And he didn't like Dark Pit having the same final smash as Pit.

Exactly this. Everything is a numbers game and for the numbers to line up right Nintendo needs to see our numbers are averaging good results. So
we will be doing Golden Sunday again and again making it apparent we exist

Has the date for the next Golden Sunday been fully scheduled yet?

If not, then I suggest doing it on a day were there aren't as many other events going on.

Armistice Day being on the same day as the first Golden Sunday likely made our message not get as spread out as it could have otherwise been.

 

[SPEN18]

when it comes to FE, I'm not really against it's representation from a quantity standpoint, but from what actual characters they chose. I have nothing against Awakening, though I don't think it needed 3 reps. Honestly, if they replaced the Robins with Lyn, replace Chrom or Lucina with Edelgard (who'd have to be DLC), and make Chrom/Lucina more unique, then it wouldn't be as bad, since atleast more of the FE series would be represented, and there'd be less clones.

My view of it is pretty similar to this. I would have gone with Marth/Roy/Lyn/Ike/Robin. Lucina probably should have been left as an alt costume in 4, but she's fine as an Echo now (I'd also be fine if they removed her tho); Chrom was unnecessary imo, as he's not even that popular among FE fans. You could have left Roy out I guess, but one clone is fine. If you really insist on the weapon triangle, Hector or Ephraim are fine but I really think Lyn has been one of the most consistently popular FE characters and represents FE coming to the West (even more than Roy does). It would just be weird IMO to have either of them without Lyn. Also FE7 is my second-favorite FE. I left Robin in there because he's pretty unique, even though I don't care much for the character myself.

What you suggested I would also be fine with too, actually.

 

[Pinguino21v]

Armistice Day being on the same day as the first Golden Sunday likely made our message not get as spread out as it could have otherwise been.

The 22nd of February, the anniversary of Golden Sun in Europe, is in a nice spot, letting three months to plan things. But it's not on Sunday. However, we never said Golden Sunday should stay on Sunday.

 

[KoopaSaki]

Do you guys think Matthew or Isaac could be coming as dlc in August 2019 given that rathalos tweet we got or do you think nintendo opted out of selecting a golden sun representative for dlc given they may have planned the characters out before they found out about Isaacs hype? Also do you think sakurai just straight up doesn’t want a golden sun rep in smash?

 

[osby]

Do you guys think Matthew or Isaac could be coming as dlc in August 2019 given that rathalos tweet we got or do you think nintendo opted out of selecting a golden sun representative for dlc given they may have planned the characters out before they found out about Isaacs hype? Also do you think sakurai just straight up doesn’t want a golden sun rep in smash?

No.

And why wouldn't he?

 

[Frosty Pops]

I don’t know, I think it would be exactly like Ridley. I think the Smash community at the very least has got our back and now acknowledges us as one of, if not the biggest fanbase. In a hypothetical new ballot, I find it likely that we’d win or at least get that silver. We’re slowly but surely starting to make ourselves heard, and after that there’s no excuse that can keep us down.

Whatever excuse we may get from Sakurai, that’ll just be the new ‘too big’.

I mean as far as 1st party requests I don't see anyone nearly as wanted as Isaac. The only characters likely to beat him on a ballot would be very popular 3rd parties like Banjo.

 

[WaddleMatt]

Isn't the next Golden Sunday April 14th?

 

[Sentinel07]

Chrom was unnecessary imo, as he's not even that popular among FE fans.

Sadly, he's actually insanely popular in Japan (I'd say his Japanese voice actor likely has a lot to do with that).

Plus, people basically made a meme out of him thanks to his quote from Robin/Lucina's trailer.

 

[SonicLink125]

Isn't the next Golden Sunday April 14th?

Yes. It's for the NA release of TLA, I believe.

 

[JaidynReiman]

The 22nd of February, the anniversary of Golden Sun in Europe, is in a nice spot, letting three months to plan things. But it's not on Sunday. However, we never said Golden Sunday should stay on Sunday.

We could do a push on Feb 22, just not call it Golden Sunday. The next actual Golden Sunday has to be April I think?

Sadly, he's actually insanely popular in Japan (I'd say his Japanese voice actor likely has a lot to do with that).

Plus, people basically made a meme out of him thanks to his quote from Robin/Lucina's trailer.

Chrom is definitely popular. I mean, he was THE popular suggestion for Awakening ever since the start of Smash 4 speculation, so anyone saying he's not popular is kidding themselves.

Chrom didn't make it because Sakurai wanted a character who would be more original, so he went with Robin.

 

[TempestSurge]

No.

And why wouldn't he?

Well the most simple answer and one that is constantly brought up against Isaac is that his series is considered dead. And since Sakurai once stated this: As for who doesn't make the cut, Sakurai noted, "Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen."

And Isaac started as an assist trophy, missed a game, came back as one yet again (he'd probs just stay cut like the rest of the Brawl assist if it wasn't for the ballot). It's looking like that'll be the one thing keeping Isaac out since Sakurai has no attachment to him like he speaks fondly of other newcomers he added like Little Mac, for him to want to make Isaac playable in the first place.

 

[osby]

Well the most simple answer and one that is constantly brought up against Isaac is that his series is considered dead. And since Sakurai once stated this: As for who doesn't make the cut, Sakurai noted, "Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen."

And Isaac started as an assist trophy, missed a game, came back as one yet again (he'd probs just stay cut like the rest of the Brawl assist if it wasn't for the ballot). It's looking like that'll be the one thing keeping Isaac out since Sakurai has no attachment to him like he speaks fondly of other newcomers he added like Little Mac, for him to want to make Isaac playable in the first place.

There are a lot of series with no futures and they don't have any playable character, just like Golden Sun.

I can get if Sakurai isn't the biggest fan of the series but I don't get why any of this makes him an opposer of a playable character from the series.

 

[SPEN18]

Sadly, he's actually insanely popular in Japan (I'd say his Japanese voice actor likely has a lot to do with that).

Plus, people basically made a meme out of him thanks to his quote from Robin/Lucina's trailer.

https://events.fire-emblem-heroes.com/vote/result
https://events.fire-emblem-heroes.com/vote2/result
In the male's division, Chrom is 4th in the first poll and 6th in the second one (these are from the FE Heroes polls). So okay, he's popular.

Still, if FE was getting another Echo I would've preferred it to be from a game that isn't already represented by 2 characters in Robin and Lucina.


Also, Lyn's placing in the first Choose Your Legends poll is telling; she got a ridiculous number of votes, even more than Lucina and the rest of the Fateswakening gals. She isn't in the second one because they removed the top 2 males and top 2 females from the first poll.

I mean, he was THE popular suggestion for Awakening ever since the start of Smash 4 speculation

I was talking about his popularity within FE circles, not Smash circles. But I have been shown to be wrong on that front anyway. Lucina is more popular than him in general, though.

-------

Anyway, I should probably get back to talking about Isaac and GS lol.

I can get if Sakurai isn't the biggest fan of the series but I don't get why any of this makes him an opposer of a playable character from the series.

It's not so much that Sakurai would oppose having a GS character, just that he has no particular interest in representing GS and since the series is dormant he has little motivation to do so. If GS was "relevant" like Animal Crossing at the time of Smash 4, Sakurai might be more compelled to give it a PC just like he did Villager after deciding in Brawl that Villager wouldn't work. Many of the "dead" retro characters come from the 80s, which is the era Sakurai is most familiar with. Xenoblade, in contrast to GS, is a series Sakurai has been shown to enjoy so even though Xenoblade didn't sell too great Shulk still got in 4 (of course, this isn't the only reason Xenoblade got represented but it very likely was a contributing factor). Sakurai even admitted that Shulk was the type of character that didn't usually make it into Smash. You could also say that Xenoblade was more "relevant" at the time of Smash 4 than GS was, so it's not clear-cut, but the idea is that if Sakurai had more personal investment in GS we might have had Isaac by now.

 

[Yellowlord]

So just to clarify... this "Hitagi" person, why exactly are they credible?

 

[JaidynReiman]

So just to clarify... this "Hitagi" person, why exactly are they credible?

They're credible for things unrelated to Smash but so far has no proof of any legitimate Smash leaks. The only reason people are giving Hitagi any attention is because Vergeben said Hitagi has more accurate info.

 

[Yellowlord]

They're credible for things unrelated to Smash but so far has no proof of any legitimate Smash leaks. The only reason people are giving Hitagi any attention is because Vergeben said Hitagi has more accurate info.

So in that case, this "sword-user from Nintendo" that this Hitagi person is saying... I'm just not sure I can believe it, really: I'd be shocked if it was Isaac, but... I'm not sure.

 

[Ninjaed]

Well the most simple answer and one that is constantly brought up against Isaac is that his series is considered dead. And since Sakurai once stated this: As for who doesn't make the cut, Sakurai noted, "Characters from a series that has no future are rarely chosen."

I didn't know ROB, Duck Hunt and G&W had a future...

 

[osby]

I didn't know ROB, Duck Hunt and G&W had a future...

You literally bolded "rarely".

 

[Organization XIII]

I didn't know ROB, Duck Hunt and G&W had a future...

Look we can find exceptions sure but the amount of characters that were dead when chosen for game is a tiny minority of characters. That's why he said rarely and not never.

 

[Ninjaed]

I know but in the end we have exceptions from as recently as Smash 4. I think if the character is iconic enough of a part of Nintendo's history, this line means zilch. All these exceptions fill that condition. Other people have pointed out that no series already represented is truly iconic of the GBA era. But Golden Sun is. And Golden Sun is fairly popular despite having been discontinued. When Reggie announced Dark Dawn, he said it was a "legendary series" coming back. That's why I don't think it matters at all in Golden Sun's case. (I will admit to having sounded snide, sorry if I offended)

 

[KoopaSaki]

I think at this point our big hope is to get Camelot and Nintendo to hear our voices for a new golden sun game. We need to get the series relevant again so sakurai could feel more compelled to include a pc from that series into smash in the future. I am all for making the next big push on the 22nd of February for Europe as Isaac and golden sun is really popular in that region.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

Sadly, he's actually insanely popular in Japan (I'd say his Japanese voice actor likely has a lot to do with that).

Plus, people basically made a meme out of him thanks to his quote from Robin/Lucina's trailer.

Whas has his Japanese VA done?

 

[StrawHatX]

So in that case, this "sword-user from Nintendo" that this Hitagi person is saying... I'm just not sure I can believe it, really: I'd be shocked if it was Isaac, but... I'm not sure.

People were saying that he deconfirmed Zelda, Xenoblade, and Fire Emblem as having a character that fits that criteria, but after searching through numerous posts the only series he deconfirmed are Zelda and Xenoblade.

So.......that means Fire Emblem could still be that “sword user from Nintendo”.....which means it’s like 99% chance to be the case. Three Houses is coming out in 2019 and Nintendo and Sakurai love their FE reps.

The only way it would be a Golden Sun character is if we’re getting a new game next year and that most likely won’t be the case. And if it was then I really feel it’d have to be a character that wasn’t Isaac. I know we all want Isaac, but I can’t see the Smash team making a new model for the Isaac AT and giving him two additional moves if they had any belief he could possibly end up being a DLC character in the future.

 

[JaidynReiman]

People were saying that he deconfirmed Zelda, Xenoblade, and Fire Emblem as having a character that fits that criteria, but after searching through numerous posts the only series he deconfirmed are Zelda and Xenoblade.

So.......that means Fire Emblem could still be that “sword user from Nintendo”.....which means it’s like 99% chance to be the case. Three Houses is coming out in 2019 and Nintendo and Sakurai love their FE reps.

The only way it would be a Golden Sun character is if we’re getting a new game next year and that most likely won’t be the case. And if it was then I really feel it’d have to be a character that wasn’t Isaac. I know we all want Isaac, but I can’t see the Smash team making a new model for the Isaac AT and giving him two additional moves if they had any belief he could possibly end up being a DLC character in the future.

There's no chance in hell we're getting a new FE character that's a sword fighter and it isn't Lyn. It needs to be someone that can actually bring something unique to the table. Lyn is extremely popular and would have a super fast style of sword fighting moveset, but of course she's an AT.

Edelgard seems to be the currently best looking option from what little we've seen... and she'd work great! But her main weapon appears to be an axe, not a sword (though she can use swords as well). An axe wielding mage would add a whole new dynamic to Smash, and is something I can see Sakurai being interested in. Almost guaranteed she would NOT use a sword, killing any chance of it being her. There's no other good options for FE that work either.


Given that literally everything under the sun is a spirit, though, and Hitagi said spirits deconfirm DLC, I think we can safely say Hitagi is full of ****.

 

[tbuster766]

Whas has his Japanese VA done?

I don't think it's so much as his japanese voice actor that is the reason behind his popularity per say. It's more evident that he was a popular character seen amongst the Fire Emblem fandom (personally I liked him more than the avatar) as he would top polls and was featured as one of the winners in the summer scramble DLC (amongst other DLC campaigns) with new artwork around him. As a matter of fact, he would place within the top five characters when it came to popularity polls for Legendary Hero banners in Fire Emblem Heroes.

 

[osby]

I don't think it's so much as his japanese voice actor that is the reason behind his popularity per say. It's more evident that he was a popular character seen amongst the Fire Emblem fandom (personally I liked him more than the avatar) as he would top polls and was featured as one of the winners in the summer scramble DLC (amongst other DLC campaigns) with new artwork around him. As a matter of fact, he would top within the top five characters when it came to popularity polls for Legendary Hero banners in Fire Emblem Heroes.

It still might have helped.

 

[StrawHatX]

There's no chance in hell we're getting a new FE character that's a sword fighter and it isn't Lyn. It needs to be someone that can actually bring something unique to the table. Lyn is extremely popular and would have a super fast style of sword fighting moveset, but of course she's an AT.

Edelgard seems to be the currently best looking option from what little we've seen... and she'd work great! But her main weapon appears to be an axe, not a sword (though she can use swords as well). An axe wielding mage would add a whole new dynamic to Smash, and is something I can see Sakurai being interested in. Almost guaranteed she would NOT use a sword, killing any chance of it being her. There's no other good options for FE that work either.


Given that literally everything under the sun is a spirit, though, and Hitagi said spirits deconfirm DLC, I think we can safely say Hitagi is full of ****.

After we got Piranha Plant as a playable character I don’t think anything is impossible anymore. If we ever got another FE sword user I would prefer it to be Lyndis, but she’s an AT again so it doesn’t seem likely.

I’m not 100% behind this Hitagi person either, but if people want to believe his “first-party Nintendo character that uses a sword” claim and supposedly Xeno and Zelda are ruled out then the only series left that makes the most sense is Fire Emblem.

I love them Fire Emblem series. I don’t want another Fire Emblem fighter. I’d like to believe that if we got a Three Houses rep we would finally get an axe or lance user. But based on what always happens with that series it wouldn’t shock me to get another sword user. As sad as that is.

 

[tbuster766]

It still might have helped.

Oh yeah not denying that either. I think he was overall a likeable character when it came to the Awakening lore. I did admittedly feel really salty when he was deconfirmed, but glad to see that he made the cut in smash ultimate. Kinda sad that he's an echo, but I do like how he has a different side special and a different animation of sorts for his final smash.

 

[osby]

Oh yeah not denying that either. I think he was overall a likeable character when it came to the Awakening lore. I did admittedly feel really salty when he was deconfirmed, but glad to see that he made the cut in smash ultimate. Kinda sad that he's an echo, but I do like how he has a different side special and a different animation of sorts for his final smash.

I didn't mind him being an echo but then again, I like Dark Pit, so.

 

[tbuster766]

I can let Dark Pit slide considering his final smash for one is different from Pit's

 

[KMDP]

Its a nice theory but there is one flaw.

Piranha Plant.

Piranha Plant is likely DLC because he could not be completed for base as development has already been started. Why couldn't they do this for Isaac?

Unless both were planned and the plant had more work done I don't know about this one.

As a cartoony plant, Piranha Plant is inherently easier to complete than Isaac, a humanoid with most assuredly a much more complicated moveset.

Let's say they started work on Piranha Plant and Isaac at the same time, who do you think would be finished first?

 

[SonicLink125]

https://mobile.twitter.com/NessAtx/status/1064425711530729472

Can someone fill me in on this chart? I have an idea what it is, but I'm still confused on what I'm looking at.