Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Sentinel07]

I know this will generate debate, but given the fact that Sakurai said in the last direct that the 5 Newcomers for DLC will be done from scratch and the rumors I have heard about from Hitagi about a new sword wielding nintendo owned character getting in as dlc, I think Isaac getting promoted is unfortunately not a chance at least for wave 1. Do you guys think Felix or Matthew have a shot now to promote a future game? I am hoping dearly we get a new golden sun game announced in 2019.

What's this about a sword wielding Nintendo character?

 

[NessAtc.]

It's not that I don't trust you on this, but I would like to see these trademarks. I spent quite a bit of time researching this stuff and never found a "Golden Sun" trademark in Japan, only 「黄金の太陽」and I want to know if I missed something.

Your problem is you're searching "Golden Sun" rather than "GoldenSun". the spacing affects it.

I know this will generate debate, but given the fact that Sakurai said in the last direct that the 5 Newcomers for DLC will be done from scratch and the rumors I have heard about from Hitagi about a new sword wielding nintendo owned character getting in as dlc, I think Isaac getting promoted is unfortunately not a chance at least for wave 1. Do you guys think Felix or Matthew have a shot now to promote a future game? I am hoping dearly we get a new golden sun game announced in 2019.

He said that in the context of not being able to just add in characters from past games, since they're already here.

 

[FlawedAI]

Your problem is you're searching "Golden Sun" rather than "GoldenSun". the spacing affects it.
He said that in the context of not being able to just add in characters from past games, since they're already here.

Yep, that was it. That's a shame, but the new trademark could still be something new. Besides, the trademark registration has little to do with my theory anyway.

 

[WaddleMatt]

What's this about a sword wielding Nintendo character?

Hitagi said there is one but he/she doesn't know the name of them.

 

[Organization XIII]

It's so strange that the source would say the character is specifically Nintendo and uses a sword but not who it is.

 

[WaddleMatt]

It's so strange that the source would say the character is specifically Nintendo and uses a sword but not who it is.

I think they just said 'they had a cool design' or something.

Also what is this about the trademark? I thought there was 'evidence' for more GS in the future because of an English trademark in Japan? Was this misinformation or am I missing something?

 

[FlawedAI]

I think they just said 'they had a cool design' or something.

Also what is this about the trademark? I thought there was 'evidence' for more GS in the future because of an English trademark in Japan? Was this misinformation or am I missing something?

Yeah, it seems that the English trademark is nothing new, and has been done several times before. The one registered this year isn't special, sadly.

 

[NessAtc.]

Yeah, it seems that the English trademark is nothing new, and has been done several times before. The one registered this year isn't special, sadly.

Well, it IS special, because Nintendo doesn't tend to renew trademarks that don't need renewal. Golden Sun's japanese trademark that was submitted in August shouldn't need to be filed, since "GoldenSun" had been filed previously in *2009*, or more accurately, a few weeks before the reveal of Dark Dawn.

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

That blank page at the bottom is perfect for this

I'm afraid I won't join you guys up on that hill, nice work on the doc though.

It's conspiratorial. But at this point i'll take conspiracy's over nothing. It's no substitute for genuine faith, I know. But hope has to carry on somehow.

 

[WaddleMatt]

Someone brought up a point in the Isaac Discord server that maybe a remake of Golden Sun was planned for the September direct but was delayed due to the earthquake. This would make sense because in the opening scene people die in the Mt. Aleph boulder disaster so it could be seen as distasteful. Also the Golden Sun trademark was renewed 2 weeks before the original Direct date which correlates with how Golden Sun's trademark was also renewed 2 weeks before the reveal of Dark Dawn in 2009.

 

[Silo777]

Yep, that was it. That's a shame, but the new trademark could still be something new. Besides, the trademark registration has little to do with my theory anyway.

I find that it isn’t the what of the trademark that’s so interesting, it’s the when of it. 9 years early and at the time when Isaac and Golden Sun’s hype exploded? Seriously, for example go back in this thread and you’ll see the massive jump in posts between the Rathalos teeet to the trademark two weeks later. Golden Sun hasn’t had any major attention for years and all of a sudden right when the hype for it explodes they go and renew a trademark for it a decade before they have to? I can’t buy that it’s a coincidence, personally.

 

[StrawHatX]

Someone brought up a point in the Isaac Discord server that maybe a remake of Golden Sun was planned for the September direct but was delayed due to the earthquake. This would make sense because in the opening scene people die in the Mt. Aleph boulder disaster so it could be seen as distasteful. Also the Golden Sun trademark was renewed 2 weeks before the original Direct date which correlates with how Golden Sun's trademark was also renewed 2 weeks before the reveal of Dark Dawn in 2009.

That almost makes too much sense. But I am someone that is desperate for more Golden Sun.

 

[SonicLink125]

I find that it isn’t the what of the trademark that’s so interesting, it’s the when of it. 9 years early and at the time when Isaac and Golden Sun’s hype exploded? Seriously, for example go back in this thread and you’ll see the massive jump in posts between the Rathalos teeet to the trademark two weeks later. Golden Sun hasn’t had any major attention for years and all of a sudden right when the hype for it explodes they go and renew a trademark for it a decade before they have to? I can’t buy that it’s a coincidence, personally.

Another thing we keep forgetting that also happened. Remember when the Dark Dawn website was updated this year? Then all of a sudden, it's saying it wasn't? If a remake was in the works, was Dark Dawn also included?

 

[TempestSurge]

Someone brought up a point in the Isaac Discord server that maybe a remake of Golden Sun was planned for the September direct but was delayed due to the earthquake. This would make sense because in the opening scene people die in the Mt. Aleph boulder disaster so it could be seen as distasteful. Also the Golden Sun trademark was renewed 2 weeks before the original Direct date which correlates with how Golden Sun's trademark was also renewed 2 weeks before the reveal of Dark Dawn in 2009.

There was also one of the guys on Gamexplain in the direct predictions mention something about Golden Sun remakes on 3ds (cue the big debate on 3ds vs Switch for a few pages), either way kind of odd to mention Golden Sun remakes of any sort when it didn't seem like Gamexplain particularly believed in Isaac being playable from the get go anyways.

Edit: It'd be kind of crazy if the remakes on 3ds was the initial idea and then it was scrapped and held off for the Switch instead.

 

[Silo777]

Another thing we keep forgetting that also happened. Remember when the Dark Dawn website was updated this year? Then all of a sudden, it's saying it wasn't? If a remake was in the works, was Dark Dawn also included?

Man, this whole speculation cycle has been a rollercoaster for Isaac. It was one thing after another!

There was also one of the guys on Gamexplain in the direct predictions mention something about Golden Sun remakes on 3ds (cue the big debate on 3ds vs Switch for a few pages), either way kind of odd to mention Golden Sun remakes of any sort when it didn't seem like Gamexplain particularly believed in Isaac being playable from the get go anyways.

Edit: It'd be kind of crazy if the remakes on 3ds was the initial idea and then it was scrapped and held off for the Switch instead.

I could believe it, honestly. As much as I want the remake to be on switch, I could see them doing what they did with Metroid where they put the remake on the 3DS and the new game on the switch. And if the trailer included the introduction of the game where parts of the village were destroyed and people were killed by an earthquake-like disaster, I can totally understand why Nintendo may have wanted to cut it from the direct entirely to be announced later.

 

[WaddleMatt]

There was also one of the guys on Gamexplain in the direct predictions mention something about Golden Sun remakes on 3ds (cue the big debate on 3ds vs Switch for a few pages), either way kind of odd to mention Golden Sun remakes of any sort when it didn't seem like Gamexplain particularly believed in Isaac being playable from the get go anyways.

Edit: It'd be kind of crazy if the remakes on 3ds was the initial idea and then it was scrapped and held off for the Switch instead.

You would think they would learn after what happened last time they made remakes for a game at the end of a console's lifetime.

 

[tbuster766]

There was also one of the guys on Gamexplain in the direct predictions mention something about Golden Sun remakes on 3ds (cue the big debate on 3ds vs Switch for a few pages), either way kind of odd to mention Golden Sun remakes of any sort when it didn't seem like Gamexplain particularly believed in Isaac being playable from the get go anyways.

Edit: It'd be kind of crazy if the remakes on 3ds was the initial idea and then it was scrapped and held off for the Switch instead.

The series needs to be brought onto the switch. Putting it on the 3ds at this stage of the cycle imo will result in another Dark Dawn case (assuming it is put in a year or so later).

Also I have a question that I wanted to ask everyone. Does being an assist truly mean that said character is deconfirmed for good?

 

[Bladebreaker]

Also I have a question that I wanted to ask everyone. Does being an assist truly mean that said character is deconfirmed for good?

Strictly speaking, no, because such a thing has never been outright stated as a rule by the developers. In practice, however, it looks that way,

 

[NessAtc.]

Strictly speaking, no, because such a thing has never been outright stated as a rule by the developers. In practice, however, it looks that way,

Care to elaborate on how it looks that way? We've only had one cycle of Smash DLC before, and that was all chosen by Sakurai (minus Corrin and Arguably Bayo). There's more likely than not overlap with who Nintendo picks and who's already an assist trophy, especially with Waluigi existing.

 

[Gioka]

How could I forget? Every crazy theory needs that image!



Am I the only one who constantly forgets about Inkling?



Whoa whoa whoa, really? Wow, I thought it was a renewal this whole time! Holy moly if that's true, I am so much more confident that we're getting something Golden Sun related sometime soon!

Edit: Thinking about it even more, Camelot released Mario Tennis Aces in late June. Since the new trademark for Golden Sun was made in August, that would make total sense if Golden Sun was their next project.

Well, Camelot did finish development of Mario Tennis Aces already and should be free, also, they referenced GS in it.

Someone brought up a point in the Isaac Discord server that maybe a remake of Golden Sun was planned for the September direct but was delayed due to the earthquake. This would make sense because in the opening scene people die in the Mt. Aleph boulder disaster so it could be seen as distasteful. Also the Golden Sun trademark was renewed 2 weeks before the original Direct date which correlates with how Golden Sun's trademark was also renewed 2 weeks before the reveal of Dark Dawn in 2009.

And aaactually.... If we go by dates, it could also work for DLC IF a remake or new game is in the works. For example, we know K. Rool's was renewed in 2015 which not coincidentally at all is when the roster for Ultimate was picked and development started, also, the Monado tweet referring Shulk's inclusion was in August 2013 and Shulk was revealed on August 2014 ( a year apart), we now know by word of Sakurai himself that development of a character takes 1 year from decision to conclusion, now, Rathalos tweet was posted in August 8th, with the trademark renewal being shortly after (filed on Augusth 24th). Now I don't want to raise any hopes, but for me these time "coincidences" are worth noting.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

I had once assumed that a request of Isaac for smash was the direct equivalent of asking for more official golden sun content. But until the third game in the Returns trilogy is eventually announced, and K rool returns. I don't believe that idea anymore. The cold reality of this situation is that camelot operates off the demands of it's users. And if it see's it's users asking for Isaac in a crossover fighting game, and not for a new RPG, that will naturally and simply not lead to a new RPG. So...in essence if you want a new RPG. Asking for Isaac in smash will not immediately accomplish that. And nintendo fan's will not instantly take interest in the series. In fact, being a xenoblade and shulk supporter during smash 4, I know with first hand experience, than many among those exposed will face Isaac with large resentment. Calling him a "Wasted slot" or "Another worthless anime swordsman" put simply, that goal and ideology was fundamentally flawed from the outset. Our objective now is simply to introduce as many people to the series as possible. And use that support to create significant enough demand for GS4.

I mean..You're basically saying what I've been saying.

A new game creates a lot of demand for a character in smash.

And a new character creates a lot of demand for a new game.

It's not like they're mutually exclusive, but they're at least big enough to warrant effecting one or the other.

 

[TempestSurge]

You would think they would learn after what happened last time they made remakes for a game at the end of a console's lifetime.

The series needs to be brought onto the switch. Putting it on the 3ds at this stage of the cycle imo will result in another Dark Dawn case (assuming it is put in a year or so later).

Also I have a question that I wanted to ask everyone. Does being an assist truly mean that said character is deconfirmed for good?

I'm of the mind that remakes will be solely for playing catch up (so I pretty much expect it to proceed an eventual Golden Sun 4 announcement). It's a bit silly for them to wait this long to now want to test the waters with remakes and put this demand that it needs to sell such and such, and at the end of said console's life span as if they want to shoot themselves in the foot. I mean nothing's more terrifying than to think the brothers are still waiting on fan demand to green light doing a new Golden Sun 4. If so, I'd expect it to release at the end of Switch's life span at that rate.

 

[Silo777]

I was thinking about the Rathalos Tweet and had a thought I’d like to share.

We know Sakurai has hinted at characters before with Shulk and the Monado tweet. I’m just now noticing how much Shulk and Isaac have in common in regards to getting into smash. They’re both from a niche rpg franchise and aren’t particularly relevant at the time. So with this in mind, do you think it’s possible that Sakurai feels the need to hint at these niche characters specifically? Maybe he’s not totally confident in them and wants to create some hype around them before their reveal?

 

[SonicLink125]

Silo777 Do you/can you update that doc.google of the GS Theory?

Things are getting more interesting by the day. If it all turns out true, then I expect to see a GS game (new or remake) announcement in a spring direct or E3.

Also when it comes to DLC characters, I expect the same for a spring direct or E3.

I was thinking about the Rathalos Tweet and had a thought I’d like to share.

We know Sakurai has hinted at characters before with Shulk and the Monado tweet. I’m just now noticing how much Shulk and Isaac have in common in regards to getting into smash. They’re both from a niche rpg franchise and aren’t particularly relevant at the time. So with this in mind, do you think it’s possible that Sakurai feels the need to hint at these niche characters specifically? Maybe he’s not totally confident in them and wants to create some hype around them before their reveal?

Optimism says: It's possible.
Pessimism says: Not likely.

It's still hard to say. Only time will tell. But I will say that the Rathalos pic STILL screams Golden Sun at me. I still can't see it being anything else.

 

[Gioka]

I was thinking about the Rathalos Tweet and had a thought I’d like to share.

We know Sakurai has hinted at characters before with Shulk and the Monado tweet. I’m just now noticing how much Shulk and Isaac have in common in regards to getting into smash. They’re both from a niche rpg franchise and aren’t particularly relevant at the time. So with this in mind, do you think it’s possible that Sakurai feels the need to hint at these niche characters specifically? Maybe he’s not totally confident in them and wants to create some hype around them before their reveal?

I pointed this out in my last post. Now, I don't know even if I want and support, if that hint is referring Isaac or another GS character, If a new game is true, Nintendo would probably pick the newest protag to advertise it through Smash. Now, if the new thing being worked on are remakes or a reboot then yes, Isaac may be one the one hinted at. And I think it is more of a way of saying "we haven't forgotten about you guys"

 

[TempestSurge]

I was thinking about the Rathalos Tweet and had a thought I’d like to share.

We know Sakurai has hinted at characters before with Shulk and the Monado tweet. I’m just now noticing how much Shulk and Isaac have in common in regards to getting into smash. They’re both from a niche rpg franchise and aren’t particularly relevant at the time. So with this in mind, do you think it’s possible that Sakurai feels the need to hint at these niche characters specifically? Maybe he’s not totally confident in them and wants to create some hype around them before their reveal?

You know what's bad? What if Sakurai only thought the picture was cool solely cause it had Shulk and Marth in it? Two of his known game biases that he's talked about enjoying/playing through at some point.

I want to know if Sakurai's ever played through Golden Sun in its entirety and if he didn't get through the first one, obviously he didn't play the other two lol. It'd also explain why he may not have thought the tweet would drum up the hype of a bunch of Golden Sun fans if it's been so long he forgot how the battle system looked.

 

[tbuster766]

I'm of the mind that remakes will be solely for playing catch up (so I pretty much expect it to proceed an eventual Golden Sun 4 announcement). It's a bit silly for them to wait this long to now want to test the waters with remakes and put this demand that it needs to sell such and such, and at the end of said console's life span as if they want to shoot themselves in the foot. I mean nothing's more terrifying than to think the brothers are still waiting on fan demand to green light doing a new Golden Sun 4. If so, I'd expect it to release at the end of Switch's life span at that rate.

Fair enough, but I think it would be more optimal if they put it on the switch. I do agree that they should green light it sooner rather than later. Heavens forbid that the trademark meant nothing or the brothers wait too long for the remake; however, I'm still keeping my hopes up to the possibility that it will happen sooner rather than later.

 

[SPEN18]

I want to know if Sakurai's ever played through Golden Sun in its entirety

Based on the fact that Isaac only uses the utility Psynergy in his AT, part of me wonders if Sakurai just played through the first dungeon and thought "wow this hand thingy mechanic is great for puzzles" and then quit. Or maybe he played through all of it but those puzzle mechanics were the only bit that had an impact on him.

Of course, Isaac's AT also uses Lift and Pound now, but he could've researched those without playing the game.

 

[tbuster766]

I have a head canon where he observed a nearby employee playing one of the earlier dungeons in sol sanctum during his break and thought " Wow that hand is pretty."

 

[SonicLink125]

I have a head canon where he observed a nearby employee playing one of the earlier dungeons in sol sanctum during his break and thought " Wow that hand is pretty."

Imagine if he also thought, "Hmm? Those hands vs the Master Hand?...."

If Isaac (or a GS rep) is in the works, I hope that his side B is Move/Lift/Pound where you can choose which one to use depending on the direction of the joystick you make. Kind of like Marth's side B: Dancing Blade how you can have different slashes depending on if you tilt the joystick up, forward or down.

 

[TempestSurge]

Based on the fact that Isaac only uses the utility Psynergy in his AT, part of me wonders if Sakurai just played through the first dungeon and thought "wow this hand thingy mechanic is great for puzzles" and then quit. Or maybe he played through all of it but those puzzle mechanics were the only bit that had an impact on him.

Of course, Isaac's AT also uses Lift and Pound now, but he could've researched those without playing the game.

I like to think of it as a clever pun, Isaac is an assist using 'utility' psynergy as it's the most beneficial way for him to help you. And because I like to make things way more complicated with theories. Could also be Brawl limitations and most of the assists were doing tame things compared to what they do now and since Isaac in Ultimate is only an updated version of his old Brawl model (same voice efforts and likely still says the word Move, I would expect) then it was kind of easier to add to the utility than scrap it and make him do something more earth based/dealing with djinns/summons. Or Sakurai's mindset as leaving a character as the way they were introduced and thus as the Smash fans would remember them.

 

[tbuster766]

#JusticeForIssac (He should have been a playable fighter instead of a generic/nameless plant that can;t even fight)

Appreciate the sentiment. We are just trying to keep Golden Sun relevant for the time being.

 

[SonicLink125]

Appreciate the sentiment. We are just trying to keep Golden Sun relevant for the time being.

That's all we can do at the moment. It's better than going silent again which got us nowhere.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Hitagi said there is one but he/she doesn't know the name of them.

Pretty sure Hitagi only said she (people keep saying she so I'm going with that until further notice notice) doesn't want to reveal the name due to the Katalina situation, not that she doesn't know who it is.

 

[SPEN18]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1oAx1yeSuANleB9z0_Ur3z4OTKyFKuhLD/view

A few relevant comments Hitagi made about the sword user.

Seems like they know a bit more than they're letting on (especially since they claim to have seen the design of the character) but they also state that they do not know who the character is...

Also none of this is new, just posting here to avoid confusion in the future

 

[NessAtc.]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/O...VjKYjtv7qfkH23V1Gu3qV7kxit6l6Tg=w1366-h626-rw

A few relevant comments Hitagi made about the sword user.

Seems like they know a bit more than they're letting on (especially since they claim to have seen the design of the character) but they also state that they do not know who the character is...

that's an error 403, can we get a screenshot

 

[tbuster766]

that's an error 403, can we get a screenshot

I second this.

 

[SPEN18]

that's an error 403, can we get a screenshot

I second this.

Try it now? (I edited the post)
Inserting the image directly seems to not work

 

[tbuster766]

Try it now? (I edited the post)
Inserting the image directly seems to not work

"Is it a magic swordsman like Robin"
BRUHHH

 

[SPEN18]

"Is it a magic swordsman like Robin"
BRUHHH

Yeah probably that person was trying to see if it could be Isaac. IIRC someone else in that thread asked if they wielded two swords, which obviously would point to Lloyd Irving. I don't think Hitagi responded to the double swords comment from what I could find, though, hence why I didn't include it in the screenies posted above.

Edit: to be clear, the person only asked if the character wielded "more than one" sword, not specifically two. Still almost surely was referencing Lloyd. Same person asked if Hitagi could tell us the most prominent color of the character's design. Still seems like Hitagi didn't respond to it.