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Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

Nauzgo

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My brother and I have been discussing Nintendo controlling the DLC. And the more we discuss it the more questionable it is sounding. Do you guys think they are gonna make promo characters for their big titles for the next 2 years? A Pokemon is coming out maybe getting another rep? If this is the case it could be good or very bad. And if Steve....urk...is a character the others will have to be really **** good to make up for it.
It may very well be that there are some promotional characters in there, that supports both - the respective game AND Smash. But you also have to take into account that Nintendo wants to make the most money they can get so that will be a factor too. When they're sure that Isaac for example would sell the best, they would definitely use him to maximize their profit even if there's no new Golden Sun game.

That said, I would still expect 2-3 promo characters, be it Jibanyan, King Boo, a Pokemon or Edelgard (or whatever he's called).
 

TheSpaceKing12

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My brother and I have been discussing Nintendo controlling the DLC. And the more we discuss it the more questionable it is sounding. Do you guys think they are gonna make promo characters for their big titles for the next 2 years? A Pokemon is coming out maybe getting another rep? If this is the case it could be good or very bad. And if Steve....urk...is a character the others will have to be really **** good to make up for it.
Sora, Lloyd, Steve, katalina, gen 8 pokemon.

In other words, 2 awesome additions, then things very quickly go to hell.
 

SPEN18

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It’s only doomed to fail if it’s too hard to follow. The premise is simple enough even a newcomer who had never heard of the series could follow. Matthew and co are searching for Isaac who was missing at the end of dark dawn. The game could bridge the gap for new players by including plot summaries of the previous titles like dark dawn did. In this version of events, consider GS4 the fire emblem awakening of the franchise. GS4 would N O T be a commercial death sentence. Not if Matthew is placed in smash for promotion, the story is easy enough to follow for those out of the loop, and in general it’s just a great game. Dark dawn was not a great game. It was a decent game with a lot of serious flaws that piled up as things went on. Declining quality = declining sales. It’s that simple.

Remakes only work for kickstarting a franchise again when it’s a franchise where the game starts that followed the first entry were all terrible. Valkiriya chronicles anyone? Lost age is great, Dark dawn is decent. No terrible. There are plenty of people that have good memories of both. Relaunching the franchise under a remake is just as dangerous a prospect as a full GS4 when you consider the prospect that’s it could retcon Dark dawn, and especially so, the lost age, out of existence. I originally thought a remake was the way to go. And I see the appeal. But I no longer think that’s the way to go. I think the way to go is to just make golden sun 4 the best damn game it possibly can be. Great games will get audiences. Continuity be damned.
Yeah GS4 could actually work fine if they do it right. I know people are afraid of continuing from the cliffhanger after so many years, but what you described I think would actually work. They just need to be careful; if they appeal too much to the older fans then new ones will feel lost and alienated, but if they appeal too much to new fans then we'll have a redux of Dark Dawn. Matthew searching for Isaac is a fantastic idea. Isaac is clearly the face of the franchise, and the Matthew/Isaac duo would be done somewhat similarly to Lucina/Marth, except without the need for secret identities or bizarre dimension-hopping shenanigans. I also think they need to work in the rest of the OG GS protagonists into the story at least tangentially; don't go overboard with it but don't just ignore most of them like DD. For example, when Ivan shows up they just have to explain that he's an old friend of Isaac's, and even new players would be able to understand that he's a trustworthy ally. They can also rectify some of the omissions of DD by, for example, explaining Felix's disappearance. I think that the Takahashi brothers already have story ideas if they planned DD to be the first half of a longer story; some of those ideas will clearly need to be altered because of the real-world time gap, but some can still be used. They already have a fantastic game world with fantastic characters; they might as well use them.
 

JaidynReiman

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Yeah GS4 could actually work fine if they do it right. I know people are afraid of continuing from the cliffhanger after so many years, but what you described I think would actually work. They just need to be careful; if they appeal too much to the older fans then new ones will feel lost and alienated, but if they appeal too much to new fans then we'll have a redux of Dark Dawn. Matthew searching for Isaac is a fantastic idea. Isaac is clearly the face of the franchise, and the Matthew/Isaac duo would be done somewhat similarly to Lucina/Marth, except without the need for secret identities or bizarre dimension-hopping shenanigans. I also think they need to work in the rest of the OG GS protagonists into the story at least tangentially; don't go overboard with it but don't just ignore most of them like DD. For example, when Ivan shows up they just have to explain that he's an old friend of Isaac's, and even new players would be able to understand that he's a trustworthy ally. They can also rectify some of the omissions of DD by, for example, explaining Felix's disappearance. I think that the Takahashi brothers already have story ideas if they planned DD to be the first half of a longer story; some of those ideas will clearly need to be altered because of the real-world time gap, but some can still be used. They already have a fantastic game world with fantastic characters; they might as well use them.
I've been considering the possibility that it continues from Dark Dawn, but Isaac is the main character. It shows Isaac's side of the story, and the events of Dark Dawn are shown as well and you don't need to play Dark Dawn to know what's going on.


Another possibility I'm considering is a direct sequel to the original two games, Isaac is a playable character again (but not the -main- character, maybe its like Feizhi or Eoleo), and it leads into the events of Dark Dawn.
 

StrawHatX

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Sora, Lloyd, Steve, katalina, gen 8 pokemon.

In other words, 2 awesome additions, then things very quickly go to hell.
I still have high hopes for Elma. The Xenoblade series is becoming more and more popular and completely benefits Nintendo as it’s not third party. And Sakurai loves the series too.
 

Nazyrus

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Lloyd and Banjo Kazooie are my must happen DLC choices… can only hope now.
 

Yellowlord

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Who knows? :3
You know, doesn't Sakurai technically know of the demand for Isaac especially after today based off how his tweets sounded?
 

THE 6r

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You know, doesn't Sakurai technically know of the demand for Isaac especially after today based off how his tweets sounded?
But the question soon becomes does NINTENDO know of the demand for Isaac and all of these other heavy fan requests that are not yet in.
 

Jupiter Ivan

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You know, doesn't Sakurai technically know of the demand for Isaac especially after today based off how his tweets sounded?
Yeah, but he’s known about the demand for Isaac ever since the Smash Ballot.
Exactly. I just hope the spam happy Isaac supporters didn’t annoy him too much...

That being said his statement wasn’t directly focused on us. We’re one of a few fan bases vying for Sakurai’s and Nintendo’s attention.
 

JaidynReiman

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You know, doesn't Sakurai technically know of the demand for Isaac especially after today based off how his tweets sounded?
No, because this wasn't directed as Isaac fans. I was directed at people spamming his twitter.

That said, of COURSE Isaac knows of the demand for Isaac. Just look at the Assist Trophies in this game. Look at the ones who returned from Brawl.


Isaac had no reason to come back other than fan demand. That alone proves Sakurai knows of the demand for Isaac.
 

Gurein

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Yeah, but he’s known about the demand for Isaac ever since the Smash Ballot.
Ever since melee actually. Lemme find that interview in a magazine first
It was just someone asking why characters like Wario, Robin and Saki didn't get in and used Wario when answering, but I'll still look for it.
 

SonicLink125

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No, because this wasn't directed as Isaac fans. I was directed at people spamming his twitter.

That said, of COURSE Isaac knows of the demand for Isaac. Just look at the Assist Trophies in this game. Look at the ones who returned from Brawl.


Isaac had no reason to come back other than fan demand. That alone proves Sakurai knows of the demand for Isaac.
It's still surreal to me that of all the cut ATs (besides Gray Fox for obvious reasons), Isaac is the only one that came back. It a bit baffling to be honest.

IF there truly is a GS4 in the works and Nintendo wants to use Matthew as advertisement...sigh... I would be ok with it. Especially if Matthew has Isaac's outfit.

But there's still the possibility that Isaac is in for that promotion of a new GS game and Matthew SOMEHOW was his echo fighter too.

This is going to be a very confusing year for Smash speculation. Oh well! Doesn't change anything on what we're going to do.
 

Saer2k

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I'm perfectly cool with Matthew being our Golden Sun rep, if that means that they're using him for advertisement for GS4.
I also agree that the GS4 needs to appeal the fans of the series and the newcomers.
 
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jweb23

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It is quite interesting to see Sakurai say that Nintendo chose the DLC. I’m assuming this means they gave him a list of characters to choose from which most likely means the DLC will in fact be characters used to promote future products. Some options I can see possible:

Banjo & Kazooie - rumored N64 Classic
Rayman - Ubisoft has now made a spinoff Mario game and included StarFox in their Starlink game
Rhythm Heaven character - assuming the new trademark means a new game
Golden Sun character - assuming the new trademark means a new game
Mach Rider - same reason as RH and GS
Monster Hunter - I will forever find it strange that Rathalos is in the game without a hunter
Bandai Namco character - they helped make the game
Generation 8 Pokémon - new game next year
Fire Emblem 3 Houses - new game next year
Square Enix character - can’t pretend Vergeben’s sources are wrong anymore
Elma - nowhere to be seen in the last direct
Bandana Dee - nowhere to be seen in the last direct

With our current information without knowing anything going on behind the scenes, these are the most likely DLC choices unless I missed something. This is of course assuming Spirits and Assist Trophies are a death sentence.
 

StrawHatX

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I’m definitely more hopeful with Nintendo picking these characters than I was with Sakurai doing it because Sakurai just doesn’t seem to care about GS at all. I mean, why in the world did he completely remove Isaac from Smash 4?

Hoping that early trademark was for something upcoming. Matthew would make sense if they were continuing Dark Dawn’s story, but I don’t know if that’s what they would want to go for to get new people into the franchise.

Isaac could always be upgraded, but what if they’re remaking the series and combining the first two games into one on the Switch and we get Felix as playable. The first two games were supposed to be one anyways.
 
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TheSpaceKing12

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I’m definitely more hopeful with Nintendo picking these characters than I was with Sakurai doing it because Sakurai just doesn’t seem to care about GS at all. I mean, why in the world did he completely remove Isaac from Smash 4?

Hoping that early trademark was for something upcoming. Matthew would make sense if they were continuing Dark Dawn’s story, but I don’t know if that’s what they would want to go for to get new people into the franchise.

Isaac could always be upgraded, but what if they’re remaking the series and combining the first two games into one on the Switch and we get Felix as playable. The first two games were supposed to be one anyways.
A tweet posted in this thread by someone who works at Nintendo suggested there was some sort of legal complications? I’m guessing if that’s the case, Camelot was trying to get the rights to the IP back and failed miserably. Mind you that’s my personal theory.
 

Jupiter Ivan

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I'm perfectly cool with Matthew being our Golden Sun, if that means that they're using him for advertisement for GS4.
I also agree that the GS4 needs to appeal the fans of the series and the newcomers.
The issue with that is that we can assume theyll pick up after a near decade long cliff hanger.

A franchise like kingdom hearts can get away with it because it’s a smash hit. And even then, they still released a collection so people can be caught up on the story.

Granted, Golden Sun is no Kingdom Hearts, but how can you expect people who’ve never played Golden Sun to get invested in a sequel to a game that came out 8 years ago?

If GS continues the Dark Dawn plotline it’ll be the death of Golden Sun. And no amount of fan support can change that.

It’ll be a game purely meant for us, and to close the series for good. Completely shutting down any chance for a future game.
 

StrawHatX

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A tweet posted in this thread by someone who works at Nintendo suggested there was some sort of legal complications? I’m guessing if that’s the case, Camelot was trying to get the rights to the IP back and failed miserably. Mind you that’s my personal theory.
Wait, what? Why would Camelot have trouble getting the rights back? Because they haven’t done anything with it since Dark Dawn? So then does Nintendo have complete control of the rights now?
 

ZelDan

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I hope the SE rep is Geno, for the sake of the Geno fanbase and because it would be cool to see Mario's RPG side get some love in Smash (and SMRPG is my favorite Mario RPG to this day, so Geno would be great). If not him, I could also accept Crono (from one of the most beloved JRPGs of all time, and is my favorite game of all time), Terra (from one of the most popular FFs, and my second favorite FF after FFVII), or even Cecil (FFIV is probably one of the most ported/remade games in the series, and is a very important game for the FF franchise. I really like the game myself).

I really hope it isn't Sora; I've never played KH and I find his original design to be dopey and silly (his KHIII design is better, but KHIII isn't coming to Switch, so...). I really, REALLY hope it doesn't end up being Noctis. I already find FFXV repulsive enough as is, last thing I need it to do is plague Smash Bros. >_>
 

Gurein

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A tweet posted in this thread by someone who works at Nintendo suggested there was some sort of legal complications? I’m guessing if that’s the case, Camelot was trying to get the rights to the IP back and failed miserably. Mind you that’s my personal theory.
I don't think this was about legal reasons, I believe Nintendo 100% owns Golden Sun?
My take would be that Nintendo or Sakurai literally didn't care enough, or at all about GS at the time.
 

Kalaam

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There is ways to continue Dark Dawn's plot, it's actually rather easy.
First, DD's main plot is done, the grave eclipse is settled. We just need to have it summarized just like the event of the first to games during the opening. or even better, have it happen during the prologue.
Then, follow new characters. Probably not knowing how the eclipse happened, so new players won't know, just like characters, but we, old players, will know, and that can lead to interresting bread crumming and subtle story telling. Make the first part of the game about understanding what happened, maybe because it had a lasting effect on a character (once again I bring the idea of one of the character being "infected"/"changed" by dark psynergy, not making them berserk just them having powers they don't understand and may be afraid of, and now are looking for a cure/explanation.
That first part of the game would allow to introduce the lore, the recent events and important characters slowly, by learning what have happened. "Oh, children of the warrior of Vale were tied to that eclipse." etc etc, until you find them, maybe even finding them right were DD ends, when they are in front of the big vortex.
Eh, maybe the character affect by dark psynergy actually has the ability to control, or at least tame down vortexes.
So you see it's not that hard.
 

NoOtherPersona

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I don't think this was about legal reasons, I believe Nintendo 100% owns Golden Sun?
My take would be that Nintendo or Sakurai literally didn't care enough, or at all about GS at the time.
So Camelot tried to get the rights back but Nintendo said no? I mean why not what are they doing with it
 

SonicLink125

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So Camelot tried to get the rights back but Nintendo said no? I mean why not what are they doing with it
This is getting a bit fishy the more we delve into it. Like, why did GS get their trademark done so early with updated stuff? The other trademark renewals didn't have that last I heard. Are they truly planning to get GS back? If so, what are they going to do? A remake and then GS4 or just GS4?

To be honest, that's going to be interesting and fun to speculate. At least, for me.
 

Huanchi

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ok guys.. so.. the Golden sun trademark.. WHAT IF nintendo really brings back golden sun.. maybe a glorified triology for switch.. or just Dark Dawn HD and then GS4? we clearly see that trademark mean nothing for smash (custom robo..).. so it might be bigger than we think
-> which can lead into a GS rep...
 

Pinguino21v

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Remakes only work for kickstarting a franchise again when it’s a franchise where the game starts that followed the first entry were all terrible. Valkiriya chronicles anyone?
Valkyria Chronicles doesn't require to know the previous entry. I did VC2 without doing VC1.

I really hope it isn't Sora; I've never played KH and I find his original design to be dopey and silly (his KHIII design is better, but KHIII isn't coming to Switch, so...)
But Sora could be a nice addition, and, sorry, but he is way more known and marketable than Geno.
You should give Kingdom Hearts a try.
 

NNN

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It is quite interesting to see Sakurai say that Nintendo chose the DLC. I’m assuming this means they gave him a list of characters to choose from which most likely means the DLC will in fact be characters used to promote future products. Some options I can see possible:

Banjo & Kazooie - rumored N64 Classic
Rayman - Ubisoft has now made a spinoff Mario game and included StarFox in their Starlink game
Rhythm Heaven character - assuming the new trademark means a new game
Golden Sun character - assuming the new trademark means a new game
Mach Rider - same reason as RH and GS
Monster Hunter - I will forever find it strange that Rathalos is in the game without a hunter
Bandai Namco character - they helped make the game
Generation 8 Pokémon - new game next year
Fire Emblem 3 Houses - new game next year
Square Enix character - can’t pretend Vergeben’s sources are wrong anymore
Elma - nowhere to be seen in the last direct
Bandana Dee - nowhere to be seen in the last direct

With our current information without knowing anything going on behind the scenes, these are the most likely DLC choices unless I missed something. This is of course assuming Spirits and Assist Trophies are a death sentence.
Also there's a new Metroid Prime, Luigi's Mansion and Animal Crossing incoming for next year (2020 at most)...

E. Gadd confirmed :troll:
 

JaidynReiman

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I bet on a Golden Sun Musou reskin.
I can definitely see this happening in a couple of different ways. In general, this would be an incredible idea for a Musou game. So, I have two thoughts on this:

1.) It'll take a little while to get a GS game out, so they make a Musou as a stopgap.

2.) A GS remake is coming, and they do a Musou to fill in gaps between games (and to have another Musou game).


There's definitely a couple of possibilities there assuming Nintendo wants to bring the franchise back.
 

JaidynReiman

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Ew musou. I'd be fine with GS Warriors ALONG with a new traditional GS game, but not only a musou...
I mean, it definitely won't happen on its own. Only if a new GS is announced, or if one releases, it does well, and they can't make another right away, so a Musou in between.
 

Jupiter Ivan

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Golden Sun Warriors? Gross. No thanks, I’ll pass.

So I’ve been writing my story and I gotta say...

I’m so rusty lol. I really hope I can get a couple chapters in before Golden Sunday and I hope they aren’t terrible. Although I’ve always been too critical of my work...

It doesn’t really help that I’m diving into this with a plot and characters I’ve only made up within a few days... there is that too...

Ugh now I’m nervous.
 

TheSpaceKing12

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Wait, what? Why would Camelot have trouble getting the rights back? Because they haven’t done anything with it since Dark Dawn? So then does Nintendo have complete control of the rights now?
That was speculation on my part. Basically if there was legal trouble, I had thought “perhaps Camelot was getting fed up with having no control over the series, and took Nintendo to court over it.” sometimes in agreements like these (golden sun is second party) loopholes exist where the creator can get the property back, with some legal push. Again, this is pure supposition and speculation.
 
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