Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[JaidynReiman]

So what's the implication in regards to Isaac? That one of the posts relates to him somehow? Seems like a stretch to me.

I've mentioned before that Bowser got pulled back to Sunday. Bowser was filling in for someone.


If two posts are still missing after this, then I fully believe a character was cut from the Direct. Its still suspicious as is. It relates to Isaac because he's the biggest contender who could potentially get removed from a Direct that got delayed due to an earthquake. Isabelle's trailer also honestly feels more like an introduction trailer rather than an ending one.



EDIT:

If we get Isaac, I'm pretty sure that Matthew will be an echo fighter of his. Also, did any see this topic?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76899877

With Isabelle's confirmation, it's been eerily accurate so far, especially assuming that it was allegedly posted as far back as January.

That was proven to have been faked weeks ago. Its a fake version of 2chan made to look like someone leaked the entire roster.

 

[SirCamp]

I like Isabelle as much as the next person, but the big Smash reveal being a semi-clone is a bit underwhelming, I gotta be honest.

And I haven't read through the thread yet, but I assume people are now making arguments that this either helps or hurts Isaac's chances? Don't, this has no effect on them either way. We live to fight another day.

Eh I don't think that's true at all. Or rather, the circumstances may not have changed in reality, but mine and I imagine many others perceptions of the situation surrounding Isaac's potential has changed.

Prior to the direct I expected Isabelle as an echo. Instead she is a semi clone. Combine that with my perception that echoes don't seem to count as full fledged newcomers per Sakurai's comment about not expecting many newcomers (I only claim this because if they do count then we are already dangerously low on potential "slots") and the situation appears to have changed for me. There are now more characters that are potentially vying for what we already know to be a smaller number of playable spots.

Before the direct I thought Isaac's competition was Geno, Banjo, a zelda rep, a pokemon rep, possibly a retro or left field choice, Bandana Dee, and Elma.

Post direct he is still competing with those characters, but he also potentially has to contend with other characters previously written off as echoes. Dixie, Shadow, Ken, etc.

Isaac is still very possible. But to be frank I'm not sure how you can say that this reveal doesn't change things. I still think he has a great chance, but I also can't lie and say that I don't think his chances have decreased at all. Because I think they have. He is now, at least based on my perception of the situation given what we know, in competition with more characters for newcomer status, while the fact that the low number of newcomers statement, again given what we know, still holds true.

Does Isabelle have a direct effect on Isaac's chances? No obviously not. That isn't how development works. But we are just guessing about who got added and we know that there are a limited number of newcomers. So in a world where that doesn't change, but new information comes to light that implies more characters are possibilities than previously realized, the chances for each individual character getting in necessarily goes down.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

Luigi's mansion 3 looks like Luigi's mansion 2.

So still complete ****.

But I'm glad isabella is in for her fans.

I just thought she had a boring reveal.

And tha Jan Leak was proven false WAYYY back then.

 

[Smashmar2]

If we get Isaac, I'm pretty sure that Matthew will be an echo fighter. Also, did anyone see this topic?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76899877

With Isabelle's confirmation, it's been eerily accurate so far, especially since it was originally (allegedly) posted as far back as January.

Hey Isn't Isaac's Japanese name Robin?

 

[JaidynReiman]

Eh I don't think that's true at all. Or rather, the circumstances may not have changed in reality, but mine and I imagine many others perceptions of the situation surrounding Isaac's potential has changed.

Prior to the direct I expected Isabelle as an echo. Instead she is a semi clone. Combine that with my perception that echoes don't seem to count as full fledged newcomers per Sakurai's comment about not expecting many newcomers (I only claim this because if they do count then we are already dangerously low on potential "slots") and the situation appears to have changed for me. There are now more characters that are potentially vying for what we already know to be a smaller number of playable spots.

Before the direct I thought Isaac's competition was Geno, Banjo, a zelda rep, a pokemon rep, possibly a retro or left field choice, Bandana Dee, and Elma.

Post direct he is still competing with those characters, but he also potentially has to contend with other characters previously written off as echoes. Dixie, Shadow, Ken, etc.

Isaac is still very possible. But to be frank I'm not sure how you can say that this reveal doesn't change things. I still think he has a great chance, but I also can't lie and say that I don't think his chances have decreased at all. Because I think they have. He is now, at least based on my perception of the situation given what we know, in competition with more characters for newcomer status, while the fact that the low number of newcomers statement, again given what we know, still holds true.

Does Isabelle have a direct effect on Isaac's chances? No obviously not. That isn't how development works. But we are just guessing about who got added and we know that there are a limited number of newcomers. So in a world where that doesn't change, but new information comes to light that implies more characters are possibilities than previously realized, the chances for each individual character getting in necessarily goes down.

I think this is the completely wrong point of view. You're arguing that she reduces the chances of other characters... but in reality, she seems to be a semi-clone, meaning semi-clones are still possible. Meaning we may be getting a few more semi-clones and a few less Echoes.


This doesn't affect the number of full newcomers at all, rather, it affects the number of Echoes, which I was considering to be pretty even (around 8 unique/8 Echo). Now I'm thinking like 10 unique/6 Echo, with a couple of Echo candidates now having the potential to be made just different enough to no longer count.

Hey Isn't Isaac's Japanese name Robin?

Yes, that's the whole point, but its FAKE. Its been known to be fake for weeks.

 

[KatKit]

Oh, sorry didn't know it was debunked. ^^" It seemed legit, too.

Kinda glad it is though since I like to be surprised. In any case, good luck to Isaac.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Eh I don't think that's true at all. Or rather, the circumstances may not have changed in reality, but mine and I imagine many others perceptions of the situation surrounding Isaac's potential has changed.

Prior to the direct I expected Isabelle as an echo. Instead she is a semi clone. Combine that with my perception that echoes don't seem to count as full fledged newcomers per Sakurai's comment about not expecting many newcomers (I only claim this because if they do count then we are already dangerously low on potential "slots") and the situation appears to have changed for me. There are now more characters that are potentially vying for what we already know to be a smaller number of playable spots.

Before the direct I thought Isaac's competition was Geno, Banjo, a zelda rep, a pokemon rep, possibly a retro or left field choice, Bandana Dee, and Elma.

Post direct he is still competing with those characters, but he also potentially has to contend with other characters previously written off as echoes. Dixie, Shadow, Ken, etc.

Isaac is still very possible. But to be frank I'm not sure how you can say that this reveal doesn't change things. I still think he has a great chance, but I also can't lie and say that I don't think his chances have decreased at all. Because I think they have. He is now, at least based on my perception of the situation given what we know, in competition with more characters for newcomer status, while the fact that the low number of newcomers statement, again given what we know, still holds true.

Does Isabelle have a direct effect on Isaac's chances? No obviously not. That isn't how development works. But we are just guessing about who got added and we know that there are a limited number of newcomers. So in a world where that doesn't change, but new information comes to light that implies more characters are possibilities than previously realized, the chances for each individual character getting in necessarily goes down.

But unlike Shadow and Ken, Isabelle was a huge request even before echoes were announced. It was only after E3 that people decided she was a guaranteed echo. Before that, I promise you she was right up there with the big boyz. She is a big deal. Being the face of a high selling, beloved franchise like Animal Crossing is huge.

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

Hey Isn't Isaac's Japanese name Robin?

Indeed it is. Interesting.

 

[GoodGrief741]

To an extent, I think it MIGHT help it, but not Isabelle herself. The still missing posts... That's what I'm intrigued about. I'll definitely be making a huge fuss if we don't get a memory for Isabelle, and if her ID isn't 135 but 136 instead...

Please keep us posted on the whole post number affair, I can’t shake the feeling that something’s off there. Like we’re missing something.

It's their first project since Drill Dozer.

Wow, really? Man, I’d have preferred a sequel to Drill Dozer, that game was awesome.

Wait, didn’t they do HarmoKnight and Pocket Card Jockey?

 

[jweb23]

If we get Isaac, I'm pretty sure that Matthew will be an echo fighter.

Seems kinda pointless to make Matthew the echo for Isaac. They literally look the same except for attire. Felix makes much more sense as he actually looks completely different to Isaac so he adds something to the roster.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Seems kinda pointless to make Matthew the echo for Isaac. They literally look the same except for attire. Felix makes much more sense as he actually looks completely different to Isaac so he adds something to the roster.

Matthew is alt material at best IMO. And even then I think Dark Dawn Isaac is a more likely alt than Matthew.

 

[Skyblade12]

So... With another reveal out of the way, we’re down to basically one Smash Direct left to get new characters.

I’m guessing two more full newcomers. Who do you think they’ll be?

 

[Yoshi444]

*cries*

 

[Q-Long]

Robin means famed, bright, and shining lol

Perfect for golden sun

Quick name meaning searches
Garet - Brave with a spear (what)
Ivan - Gift from God
Mia - Wished for child, rebellion
Felix - lucky /successful
Jenna - Fair lady
Sheba - Oath
Piers - Rock

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

So... With another reveal out of the way, we’re down to basically one Smash Direct left to get new characters.

I’m guessing two more full newcomers. Who do you think they’ll be?

I think there will be one more in an October Nintendo direct of some kind, and two more in a November Smash direct. I'm expecting the October direct to have the new Pokemon (probably Incineroar) to go along with some new information about LGPE, and I'm expecting the Smash direct to have two of either Isaac, Geno, Banjo, Skull Kid, Bandana Dee, or even a curveball third-party character like Dante. I know that sounds pessimistic, but I think most of those who don't make it into the base roster will make it in as DLC.

 

[Golden Icarus]

If we get Isaac, I'm pretty sure that Matthew will be an echo fighter. Also, did anyone see this topic?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/234547-super-smash-bros-ultimate/76899877

With Isabelle's confirmation, it's been eerily accurate so far, especially since it was originally (allegedly) posted as far back as January.

Woah woah what. I’ve never seen this.

 

[Q-Long]

*cries*View attachment 164049

Those pesky Square taxes for Geno
Isaac got a love letter from Jenna
Poor Incineroar probably got one of those gen 3 mails

 

[JaidynReiman]

I think there will be one more in an October Nintendo direct of some kind, and two more in a November Smash direct. I'm expecting the October direct to have the new Pokemon (probably Incineroar) to go along with some new information about LGPE, and I'm expecting the Smash direct to have two of either Isaac, Geno, Banjo, Skull Kid, Bandana Dee, or even a curveball third-party character like Dante. I know that sounds pessimistic, but I think most of those who don't make it into the base roster will make it in as DLC.

October would be a one-off Robin type of reveal.

 

[Deleted member]

There's still the matter of Spirits Mode, which will likely get a Direct in and of itself.

 

[N3ON]

I've mentioned before that Bowser got pulled back to Sunday. Bowser was filling in for someone.


If two posts are still missing after this, then I fully believe a character was cut from the Direct. Its still suspicious as is. It relates to Isaac because he's the biggest contender who could potentially get removed from a Direct that got delayed due to an earthquake. Isabelle's trailer also honestly feels more like an introduction trailer rather than an ending one.

I mean that's possible, but possibility alone is still a far cry from plausibility.

Eh I don't think that's true at all. Or rather, the circumstances may not have changed in reality, but mine and I imagine many others perceptions of the situation surrounding Isaac's potential has changed.

Prior to the direct I expected Isabelle as an echo. Instead she is a semi clone. Combine that with my perception that echoes don't seem to count as full fledged newcomers per Sakurai's comment about not expecting many newcomers (I only claim this because if they do count then we are already dangerously low on potential "slots") and the situation appears to have changed for me. There are now more characters that are potentially vying for what we already know to be a smaller number of playable spots.

Before the direct I thought Isaac's competition was Geno, Banjo, a zelda rep, a pokemon rep, possibly a retro or left field choice, Bandana Dee, and Elma.

Post direct he is still competing with those characters, but he also potentially has to contend with other characters previously written off as echoes. Dixie, Shadow, Ken, etc.

Isaac is still very possible. But to be frank I'm not sure how you can say that this reveal doesn't change things. I still think he has a great chance, but I also can't lie and say that I don't think his chances have decreased at all. Because I think they have. He is now, at least based on my perception of the situation given what we know, in competition with more characters for newcomer status, while the fact that the low number of newcomers statement, again given what we know, still holds true.

Does Isabelle have a direct effect on Isaac's chances? No obviously not. That isn't how development works. But we are just guessing about who got added and we know that there are a limited number of newcomers. So in a world where that doesn't change, but new information comes to light that implies more characters are possibilities than previously realized, the chances for each individual character getting in necessarily goes down.

Isabelle being unique (or, at least, not an echo) should've always been a contingency. Same with Dixie. Just because they also make sense as echoes doesn't negate that chance. They are characters that could've got in even if no new clones were present at all. Just because they were an oversight to some is not reason to overhaul expectation, or expect characters that never (really) were considered to be their own thing (like Shadow and Ken) to become their own thing. They're not Isabelle, who is the darling of AC now.

I mean the whole reason people pestered Verg about whether she was an echo or not is because they could envision either scenario. And then Verg's (incorrect) claim shaped perspective going forward. But that happened well into Isaac's ascent, and hasn't changed any of those factors.

People had been entertaining the possibility of Isabelle being unique since before Ultimate even got revealed. If this really throws off the whole equation, your parameters were far too limited. This was always a plausibility. As was her being an echo, but that's just not the outcome we got. So insofar as there are fewer remaining spots, sure, that doesn't benefit Isaac, or any unrevealed candidate. But that would've been true regardless of who we received.

 

[JaidynReiman]

There's still the matter of Spirits Mode, which will likely get a Direct in and of itself.

My assumption is the final Smash Direct will have that, as well as two newcomer reveals and more Echo Fighters.

 

[SirCamp]

I think this is the completely wrong point of view. You're arguing that she reduces the chances of other characters... but in reality, she seems to be a semi-clone, meaning semi-clones are still possible. Meaning we may be getting a few more semi-clones and a few less Echoes.


This doesn't affect the number of full newcomers at all, rather, it affects the number of Echoes, which I was considering to be pretty even (around 8 unique/8 Echo). Now I'm thinking like 10 unique/6 Echo, with a couple of Echo candidates now having the potential to be made just different enough to no longer count.

I get what you're saying, but I'm just not confident that that is how it works.

So what we know is that we are supposed to expect fewer newcomers than normal. We don't know exactly how many that means nor do we know who is considered a newcomer. At least to that end. I, and others, suspect that echoes aren't included in this number because of how closely tied they are to the character they echo and because of how little dev time they take comparatively. But also, and perhaps more importantly, because the UI seems to suggest the that they aren't due to the epsilon notation and because the select screen allows you to condense them. This seems to be a way of cementing them as sort of bonus characters and I think has a lot to do with their perception by the playerbase tbh. There's a reason they are well received when initially Lucina and Dark Pit weren't.

Isabelle on the other hand is considered fighter 68. This suggests that the dev team considers her a fully separate newcomer even if she does share traits with Villager or perhaps even if she is a semi clone. Would she have taken less dev time? Probably, but if Sakurai and the dev team consider her part of the newcomers in a way that they don't with the echoes, then the amount of dev time she took doesn't really matter.

Basically there is some number x of newcomers in the game, not counting echoes (this is an assumption, but given Sakurai' comments and the marketing for echoes it's the best I have to go on). We don't know what that x is, just that x is smaller than average. And so we know that all of the newcomers considered to be such by the team add up to said unknown number. However each of the characters also assuredly take up varying amounts of dev time to make possible. Regardless of that, each newcomer, at least that is considered to be such as Isabelle's notation seems to suggest, makes up 1/x of the potential newcomers that we get. And so we are now up to 5/x potential newcomers. And more potential candidates exist than I previously thought. I would also venture a guess that x has to be less than 12, as 12 or more more would make the statement about fewer newcomers simply untrue. Possible, but unlikely.

Again I could be wrong, but this is how I perceive the situation at this point given the information that we have.

 

[Skyblade12]

My assumption is the final Smash Direct will have that, as well as two newcomer reveals and more Echo Fighters.

Agreed. And that’s all we’re getting between now and release.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Agreed. And that’s all we’re getting between now and release.

And I completely disagree.

 

[Jasper the Tourist]

I can’t wait to destroy Dracula and Rathalos with Isabelle.

 

[Q-Long]

I can’t wait to destroy Dracula and Rathalos with Isabelle.

Isabelle would make Dracula a cake with garlic, something not even Simon or Richter would have thought of as they do their grocery shopping by breaking walls!!!

 

[Dionaea_floridensis]

I get what you're saying, but I'm just not confident that that is how it works.

So what we know is that we are supposed to expect fewer newcomers than normal. We don't know exactly how many that means nor do we know who is considered a newcomer. At least to that end. I, and others, suspect that echoes aren't included in this number because of how closely tied they are to the character they echo and because of how little dev time they take comparatively. But also, and perhaps more importantly, because the UI seems to suggest the that they aren't due to the epsilon notation and because the select screen allows you to condense them. This seems to be a way of cementing them as sort of bonus characters and I think has a lot to do with their perception by the playerbase tbh. There's a reason they are well received when initially Lucina and Dark Pit weren't.

Isabelle on the other hand is considered fighter 68. This suggests that the dev team considers her a fully separate newcomer even if she does share traits with Villager or perhaps even if she is a semi clone. Would she have taken less dev time? Probably, but if Sakurai and the dev team consider her part of the newcomers in a way that they don't with the echoes, then the amount of dev time she took doesn't really matter.

Basically there is some number x of newcomers in the game, not counting echoes (this is an assumption, but given Sakurai' comments and the marketing for echoes it's the best I have to go on). We don't know what that x is, just that x is smaller than average. And so we know that all of the newcomers considered to be such by the team add up to said unknown number. However each of the characters also assuredly take up varying amounts of dev time to make possible. Regardless of that, each newcomer, at least that is considered to be such as Isabelle's notation seems to suggest, makes up 1/x of the potential newcomers that we get. And so we are now up to 5/x potential newcomers. And more potential candidates exist than I previously thought. I would also venture a guess that x has to be less than 12, as 12 or more more would make the statement about fewer newcomers simply untrue. Possible, but unlikely.

Again I could be wrong, but this is how I perceive the situation at this point given the information that we have.

I feel like x will probably equal 6 or 7. I'd be surprised if it were much higher or if Isabelle is last (mostly) unique fighter

 

[Pyzlnar]

So... With another reveal out of the way, we’re down to basically one Smash Direct left to get new characters.

I’m guessing two more full newcomers. Who do you think they’ll be?

Yeah I agree with this. Three if we're lucky.
And a bunch of echos.

Im leaning towards Geno +1
Im hoping Isaac, and Im really hoping not another Poke rep. heh

(Regardless of who gets in, I rather have rep of new series than of others, specially if since Pokemon is one that has the most reps)

 

[JaidynReiman]

I'm still calling at least 3 more unique fighters. I really think one extra fighter was cut from this Direct to be shown off later. But I was calling three more after this Direct anyway.

 

[Mav485]

So I've had time to digest this a bit and I've come out on the other side a tad disappointed, but still hopeful.

Most of us had Isabelle in anyway, so it's no big surprise. The trailer just didn't fuel the hype machine like other trailers have, sadly.

I don't see any reason to not expect another 5-6 characters for the base roster still. I'd guess 2-3 of them being unique. DLC is then a possibility. Let's just keep filling in those rows and columns on Billy's bingo card. =P

 

[SirCamp]

Isabelle being unique (or, at least, not an echo) should've always been a contingency. Same with Dixie. Just because they also make sense as echoes doesn't negate that chance. They are characters that could've got in even if no new clones were present at all. Just because they were an oversight to some is not reason to overhaul expectation, or expect characters that never (really) were considered to be their own thing (like Shadow and Ken) to become their own thing. They're not Isabelle, who is the darling of AC now.

Should I have considered this before? I mean sure. You're not wrong. In fact i had originally expected Dixie to be a unique newcomer. That changed somewhat when echoes as a concept were introduced, not even because I wanted her to be, but just because it seemed like something they would do and because it would be possible and i figured they were going to push the concept. Regardless, foolishly or not, I started to expect both as echoes rather than separate newcomers. And again now my perception of the situation has changed based on new information.

Part of the reason I was so confident in Isaac before, beyond the twitter picture hint, was that a lot of his big competition had been written off as echoes. This made it appear that he had a better shot relative to other possible candidates. That may have been a silly assumption in hindsight, but it was an assumption I made regardless. And now that's changed. So, like I said before the direct doesn't literally change anything, but my perception of the situation has changed, and to that end Isaac seems less likely now. Even if marginally so.

Also please don't take this to be complaining or me trying to be negative. I actually am very happy with Isabelle. I think she deserves her spot and said as much in the general thread. i'm also pretty stoked about the potential for Dixie to not be an echo. But I'm also trying to be realistic and to do that I have to take into account new information. Even if that information is that I'm now realizing I made a bad assumption prior to the direct. Had I not written off certain characters as echoes, I may not have been quite as confident in Isaac from the jump. But here we are. Live and learn I suppose.

And to reiterate, I do believe Isaac still has a fine chance to be included. I'm simply voicing that I expect him a little less now than before. Before I saw him as just shy of being a lock. Now I'm not so sure.

 

[Isaac for Smash Pls]

Isabelle would make Dracula a cake with garlic, something not even Simon or Richter would have thought of as they do their grocery shopping by breaking walls!!!

Keep in mind that these are men who sustain themselves by eating chicken that falls out of chandeliers.

 

[XenoWarriorX]

No one is ever a lock.

Only when we delude ourselves into thinking that. Then maybe someone is a lock.taking

Edit:

I've never felt this empty in a while. It's like I'm not quite sure if I'm feeling happy for her fans, or just disappointed in my own hyped up expectations.

Like this unsure middle ground. Like a purgatory?

 

[SirCamp]

Oh, sorry didn't know it was debunked. ^^" It seemed legit, too.

Kinda glad it is though since I like to be surprised. In any case, good luck to Isaac.

Oh god I'm not. That leak had pretty much everything I'd ever want. The only things it doesn't have are characters than I've never had any illusions about being possible anyway. Also Impa. Impa would make that leak better. But yeah that roster would basically be my dream.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Bah, I wanted it to be a character from a new franchise. Preferably Isaac. Now, we’re still stuck with not knowing if new franchises are still viable. Bummer. Isabelle looks cool though.

 

[Jasper the Tourist]

As stated above, I know Sakurai said not to expect too many newcomers, but honestly, between the noobs and the echoes he’s already surpassed what I was expecting when he first stated that. So I wouldn’t be surprised if there are more lined up for reveals than we expect. I also wouldn’t be surprised if it goes the other way. The Smash team is known for throwing curveballs, so we’ll see.

 

[SirCamp]

Also I see a lot of people saying they expect 1-2 or maybe 3 more unique newcomers. This is probably reasonable, but it also kind of sucks. For me anyway.

Because I really want one of them to be Isaac. And I really want one of them to be Banjo. And now I really want one of them to be Dixie as well. They are my top 3 at this point, and now that Isabelle is a semi clone I'd actually be a bit miffed is Dixie does end up being an echo. It just wouldn't be fitting imo.

But I also think Geno is a big contender. As is a pokemon rep. As is possibly a new zelda character (tho post direct Skull Kid specifically seems significantly less likely so who even knows). And all those on top of any potential out there character that Sakurai might add on a whim. Or any of the other presumed echoes, like Ken or Shadow that could easily end up as a semi clone instead.

And now a world in which I get my top three as I want them seems nigh impossible. Which is kind of funny since I don't think any of them individually have bad chances, but all together it becomes much more dicey.

As stated above, I know Sakurai said not to expect too many newcomers, but honestly, between the noobs and the echoes he’s already surpassed what I was expecting when he first stated that. So I wouldn’t be surprised if there are more lined up for reveals than we expect. I also wouldn’t be surprised if it goes the other way. The Smash team is known for throwing curveballs, so we’ll see.

This is my hope ultimately (no pun intended lol). But I'm gonna take it easy on the expectations at this point. So I'm definitely going to continue assuming it should be taken at face value. Less to lose that way.

 

[N3ON]

Should I have considered this before? I mean sure. You're not wrong. In fact i had originally expected Dixie to be a unique newcomer. That changed somewhat when echoes as a concept were introduced, not even because I wanted her to be, but just because it seemed like something they would do and because it would be possible and i figured they were going to push the concept. Regardless, foolishly or not, I started to expect both as echoes rather than separate newcomers. And again now my perception of the situation has changed based on new information.

Part of the reason I was so confident in Isaac before, beyond the twitter picture hint, was that a lot of his big competition had been written off as echoes. This made it appear that he had a better shot relative to other possible candidates. That may have been a silly assumption in hindsight, but it was an assumption I made regardless. And now that's changed. So, like I said before the direct doesn't literally change anything, but my perception of the situation has changed, and to that end Isaac seems less likely now. Even if marginally so.

Also please don't take this to be complaining or me trying to be negative. I actually am very happy with Isabelle. I think she deserves her spot and said as much in the general thread. i'm also pretty stoked about the potential for Dixie to not be an echo. But I'm also trying to be realistic and to do that I have to take into account new information. Even if that information is that I'm now realizing I made a bad assumption prior to the direct. Had I not written off certain characters as echoes, I may not have been quite as confident in Isaac from the jump. But here we are. Live and learn I suppose.

And to reiterate, I do believe Isaac still has a fine chance to be included. I'm simply voicing that I expect him a little less now than before. Before I saw him as just shy of being a lock. Now I'm not so sure.

Well if that's how you saw it, I can't say you're wrong, it's a perspective thing.

But to me this is a character that always stood a good chance of being included, clone or not, being included, and that really only adversely impacts Isaac so far as limiting the amount of spots left, not by opening up some new category.

The only other character remaining that imo could theoretically be either their own character or an echo is Dixie. And popularity-wise, I do think Isaac has the leg up on her if they were to compete in the same category, given K. Rool siphoned much of the DK vote. Characters like Shadow or Ken I still don't see as being a threat to infringe on the non-echo count.

In any case, it's always best to keep a very loose list of possibilities rather than some sort of tight checklist of who's left. Way more room for the inevitable error that follows (and will still follow even with the former, because Sakurai is Sakurai). That's my take on things. That way there's much less revising and reevaluating to do.

Then again, my thoughts regarding Isaac's inclusion have always verged more on the hopeful than the expecting, which may not align with the zeitgeist of the thread lately.

 

[ZelDan]

Before Isabelle, I was honestly expecting 4-5 unique newcomers. So...maybe 4 left?

 

[SirCamp]

Well if that's how you saw it, I can't say you're wrong, it's a perspective thing.

But to me this is a character that always stood a good chance of being included, clone or not, being included, and that really only adversely impacts Isaac so far as limiting the amount of spots left, not by opening up some new category.

The only other character remaining that imo could theoretically be either their own character or an echo is Dixie. And popularity-wise, I do think Isaac has the leg up on her if they were to compete in the same category, given K. Rool siphoned much of the DK vote. Characters like Shadow or Ken I still don't see as being a threat to infringe on the non-echo count.

In any case, it's always best to keep a very loose list of possibilities rather than some sort of tight checklist of who's left. Way more room for the inevitable error that follows (and will still follow even with the former, because Sakurai is Sakurai). That's my take on things. That way there's much less revising and reevaluating to do.

Then again, my thoughts regarding Isaac's inclusion have always verged more on the hopeful than the expecting, which may not align with the zeitgeist of the thread lately.

Well I'm unfortunately in the position where I very much want both. I was at peace with Dixie being an echo, but now that Isabelle isn't I'm not sure how I'd feel about that anymore. So it seems I may get burned either way.