Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[zferolie]

Can we also please discuss how Motoi Sakuraba came back to do the remix for the Main Theme of FF7?

Sakuari seems to have a lot of connections to big developers and composers in the gaming industry. Its cool that so many people want to get their work in one of his games.

 

[ZelDan]

It's wild to me how, despite all of us being joined together beneath the banner of Smash, how different fans of certain characters can be.

The raw, unbridled passion of Geno fans leaves me awestruck. I say this with all due respect and well-intentions. I wasn't around for when Isaac was revealed as an Assist, were things as crazy here as things are for Geno fans now? It's always been relatively chill among the Isaac fans in my experience.

Edit: I'm a little jealous if I'm being honest. I know they have historically had a bad reputation in the community, warranted or not, but I've always found myself drawn to honest passion. Such willingness to give oneself over to their feelings, desires, hopes, and faith.

I'd definitely end up a Sith lmao.

Well, you know, there were definitely some upset people here on NOv 1st, 2018 and some people losing hype for Smash Ultimate and all.

So there were certainly emotions, though it was overall a pretty typical reaction that you would expect any fanbase of a long-wanted character to have I think.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

But a lot of people in this thread have been holding out hope and continuing to support him and it’s really admirable. I still support Isaac and I’m always hopeful it could happen, but I don’t personally think he’s coming. I’d love to be wrong though.

I think I'm largely running on "ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN" energy these days. I do think that the next three characters could be anyone....and it's that along with the Golden Sun game rumours that give me that little bit of hope.

I don't think Isaac is getting in if I'm being really honest, but I'm not entirely out of hope yet either.

 

[TempestSurge]

I dunno, like others I feel bad for the Geno fans, and frankly Geno being de-confirmed with a Mii costume doesn't bode well for Isaac, who does have both a Mii Costume and an Assist to contend with.

Now, I don't believe in fan rules, and I've clearly supported the idea that neither of these things de-confirm Isaac for the second pass; I still firmly believe that Nintendo will do what Nintendo wants to do - howeverrrrr, I also can absolutely see Nintendo just choosing to pass Isaac over since we've already got some representation. They may very well have not even given him a second thought, and it doesn't help that Geno, who has a huge, vocal, and rabid fan base in the Smash community, got passed over. Bigger, louder, and more ravenous than even we Isaac fans.

Honestly this hurts Isaac's chances in my opinion. I totally hope I'm wrong, I guess we'll see!

I think one thing to remember is that in Smash 4 we had bare bone content despite Dawn Dawn's release. We got like one new song, lost an assist, and didn't even get a Mii Costume like (K. Rool, Geno at the time) then there was the despair of Isaac not even being acknowledged like some of the other big requests meant Isaac wasn't on the radar.

But now in Ultimate Isaac's the only returning Brawl assist outside of Snake's and returns with new moves and we'll never know why it seems lol. We also finally got a Mii Costume and quite a few spirits. I feel like Isaac would just stay cut like the rest of the Brawl, no show in Smash 4, assists if he was an obscure character nobody talked about. Don't think Nintendo would give this amount of content if there wasn't a persistent fan base behind wanting to see this series represented.

I also think in general what happens to other characters like Geno doesn't affect Isaac. We on these boards are pretty invested, we're surrounded by so many other fans we also show their support for characters, some more popular, some less. Sometimes the more popular ones get in and then ones that have a few pages that no one felt had a chance gets in. There's no rhyme or reason. If there was a system where certain characters must be added before others because of more popularity and demand. Some characters wouldn't be on the current Smash roster.

Isaac is Isaac. He may be chosen cause he reps a first party new franchise, cause he does something no one else does on the roster, because he has some fans that want him, because he can advertise and promote and upcoming game or Nintendo can swipe left and we get btfo'd by more third party reps lol.

Personally I no longer feel the pressure I did in base Ultimate because it felt like Golden Sun's future rested on Isaac getting a slot in Smash to kickstart Golden Sun's return. Though now that it's very likely to be happening, Isaac getting in Smash will simply be the cherry on top.

 

[Monue]

Personally I no longer feel the pressure I did in base Ultimate because it felt like Golden Sun's future rested on Isaac getting a slot in Smash to kickstart Golden Sun's return. Though now that it's very likely to be happening, Isaac getting in Smash will simply be the cherry on top.

I feel everything you're saying. This though is definitely a great take. At the end of the day I'd rather see Isaac's games get remade than him get into Smash. Him getting into smash would be fabulous, but the new/remade games are where it's at, seeing the franchise come back.

It does say something that Nintendo and Camelot saw enough of Golden Sun's potential still to (hopefully) revisit the franchise on its own merits rather than based off its inclusion and subsequent reception in another franchise.

 

[THE 6r]

Guys

SEPHIROTH DOESN'T HAVE A SPIRIT BOARD

 

[Guynamednelson]

Guys

SEPHIROTH DOESN'T HAVE A SPIRIT BOARD

It'll come in 10.1. Press kits came with screenshots of his spirits. There's actually more than one page, believe it or not.

 

[THE 6r]

It'll come in 10.1. Press kits came with screenshots of his spirits. There's actually more than one page, believe it or not.

Oh ok, I got really excited for a sec.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

Hello Isaac thread! I am coming from the Geno thread to thank those of you who have sent your condolences and shared understanding. I do not go to other threads often as Geno is my most wanted character and I don't typically spend all that much time on this site. Isaac is a character I support though and I may be spending more time here now that Geno has likely been disconfirmed.

I truly feel that I have failed as a fan and did not use my voice to promote characters that I care about until it was too late. I want to learn from my mistakes in Ultimate and start to push for characters now in Smash and other games as much as I can. So if there's a supporters list, a petition I can sign, or anything I can do to show you all my support you have it. I thought that Geno's Mii costume returning would be crushing but it's taught me a lot and I am more motivated than ever to show my support and do what is within my power to try to make things happen.

I have so much admiration and respect for this fanbase and memories of playing Golden Sun as I was growing up and it would truly be something to see Golden Sun rise again to the recognition and standing within the gaming community that it deserves. I guess I'm just here to say keep doing what you're doing. Don't give up. Keep pushing in the face of adversity because only through you does Isaac and Golden Sun have a voice.

 

[FlawedAI]

Glad to have you! While I understand feeling like you personally failed, I really don't think there's anything the fans could've done about this. It's mostly Square simply deciding Geno wasn't profitable enough to be a full character. Ultimate will feel a little less complete because of it.

 

[SpiritOfRuin]

Glad to have you! While I understand feeling like you personally failed, I really don't think there's anything the fans could've done about this. It's mostly Square simply deciding Geno wasn't profitable enough to be a full character. Ultimate will feel a little less complete because of it.

Yes I realize it's kinda silly to feel like I failed and that it's out of my control but I just don't want to sit on the fence anymore. I want to do everything I can to support the characters and series that I care about. At least then I can say I did everything I could and spread hope to others.

 

[Xenigma]

I've gotta say, I'm feeling pretty bummed about Geno's deconfirmation. No, it's not exactly surprising given Sephiroth's reveal. However, considering he's one of the pillars of the Smash speculation scene, seeing him only get his SSB4 Mii costume back with seemingly no changes and his iconic theme not included? Regardless of the justification, that stinks. If he couldn't get full playable, I think he at least deserved the "deluxe" treatment like Bomberman and Sans.

As for Isaac, I think his chances took a pretty big hit today. Issues with rights aside, Geno was in a pretty similar situation to Isaac, both being characters from relatively old Nintendo games that enjoy strong backing from the Smash community but not necessarily from the wider gaming audience. At this point I have to believe Isaac isn't getting in without Golden Sun HD being real, and as much as I want to believe it is, we're about to leave 2020 without a peep from Camelot about what it is they've been working on all this time. I just want to know what's going on one way or the other, so here's hoping we don't have to wait too much longer.

 

[Guynamednelson]

As for Isaac, I think his chances took a pretty big hit today. Issues with rights aside, Geno was in a pretty similar situation to Isaac, both being characters from relatively old Nintendo games that enjoy strong backing from the Smash community but not necessarily from the wider gaming audience. At this point I have to believe Isaac isn't getting in without Golden Sun HD being real, and as much as I want to believe it is, we're about to leave 2020 without a peep from Camelot about what it is they've been working on all this time. I just want to know what's going on one way or the other, so here's hoping we don't have to wait too much longer.

At least Isaac demand didn't have a dead period like Geno's. Geno support needed that costume in the first place to be revived, Isaac's was more consistent through the years.

 

[SirCamp]

Eh, I don't think this changes things for me. I still think Isaac has an outside to okay-ish chance of becoming playable in Ultimate.

Having said that I was never super high on Isaac's chances to begin with (at least relative to this thread), so I suppose that might be why. But as far as I'm concerned if Isaac gets in it will be related to the supposed new Golden Sun release. But even then, I don't think a new release guarantees Isaac in Smash, so while I think Isaac has a better chance than most outside this thread think, I was never as high on his chances as others seem to be here. And Geno's costume reveal doesn't really change any of that.

 

[jweb23]

As for Isaac, I think his chances took a pretty big hit today. Issues with rights aside, Geno was in a pretty similar situation to Isaac, both being characters from relatively old Nintendo games that enjoy strong backing from the Smash community but not necessarily from the wider gaming audience. At this point I have to believe Isaac isn't getting in without Golden Sun HD being real, and as much as I want to believe it is, we're about to leave 2020 without a peep from Camelot about what it is they've been working on all this time. I just want to know what's going on one way or the other, so here's hoping we don't have to wait too much longer.

I disagree. I don’t think any character’s outcome has any bearing on another’s chances.

In my opinion, Isaac’s chance rest solely on if that rumored Golden Sun game gets announced before Challenger Pack 10! I say that because I can’t honestly see Isaac being the potential “final” character reveal. Not saying it’s impossible, but if CP11 is the end...I think Smash goes out with a “bang” similar to Smash 4 ending with Bayonetta. So most likely third party for CP11.

 

[NessAtc.]

.I think Smash goes out with a “bang” similar to Smash 4 ending with Bayonetta. So most likely third party for CP11.

I agreed with everything you said until you said this. They've NEVER ended on a bang in the history of ever. Even in Smash 4 DLC. Corrin was the last character in development. Because of the structure of DLC, they were able to peg Bayonetta as the final character and the "ballot winner". Corrin was the last character planned for smash 4 DLC, though.

In every other case, the last character has consistently been a more fringe/underwhelming pick in comparison to the rest of the selection. Think Jigglypuff, Mr. Game and Watch, Wolf, Shulk/Duck Hunt, Incineroar, Byleth. Also keep in mind that DLC wasn't planned in 2015 for ultimate, so Incineroar was intended to be the last one. And Pass 2 wasn't figured when Pass 1 was, so Byleth was ALSO intended to be the last one.

There is NO reason to expect that the final character will be "a big shot", and yet everyone keeps on expecting it, despite literally EVERYTHING else. It needs to stop.

 

[Xenigma]

I disagree. I don’t think any character’s outcome has any bearing on another’s chances.

In my opinion, Isaac’s chance rest solely on if that rumored Golden Sun game gets announced before Challenger Pack 10! I say that because I can’t honestly see Isaac being the potential “final” character reveal. Not saying it’s impossible, but if CP11 is the end...I think Smash goes out with a “bang” similar to Smash 4 ending with Bayonetta. So most likely third party for CP11.

I agree that in most cases one character's outcome does not directly affect another's, but it can certainly clue us into what kinds of characters are actually being selected. My gut sees Geno's costume as a very bad sign for anyone hoping for older, niche Nintendo characters in FP2, and that's basically what the Isaac community is. Obviously I'd love to be wrong, but until we get evidence to the contrary (either from another DLC character or Golden Sun HD), I'm afraid I'm now on the side of pessimism.

On a happier note, I do agree with NessAtc. that, should Isaac be in the cards, there's no real reason he couldn't be FP11. The final character has virtually never been "big", and the one time we came close (Bayonetta), it was a fan choice not unlike Isaac. Granted, I'm not exactly going to be optimistic if we're down to one character left and still no Isaac, but I see no reason to believe he couldn't be the final DLC if Nintendo felt so inclined.

 

[jweb23]

I agreed with everything you said until you said this. They've NEVER ended on a bang in the history of ever. Even in Smash 4 DLC. Corrin was the last character in development. Because of the structure of DLC, they were able to peg Bayonetta as the final character and the "ballot winner". Corrin was the last character planned for smash 4 DLC, though.

It doesn’t matter if Corrin was the last character developed because Sakurai/Nintendo decided to announce Bayonetta last! So Smash 4 ended with a big third party character announcement.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

It doesn’t matter if Corrin was the last character developed because Sakurai/Nintendo decided to announce Bayonetta last! So Smash 4 ended with a big third party character announcement.

I wouldn't exactly say she's a big third party

 

[amageish]

It'll come in 10.1. Press kits came with screenshots of his spirits. There's actually more than one page, believe it or not.

Moreover, it'll actually be the largest spirit board in DLC history with over 13 spirits (actual number unknown). So, if Isaac were to get in, then we could potentially have 6+ new spirits (assuming all the base game ones would be on the board a la ARMS)!

 

[THE 6r]

Just came back from the wake on the Geno threads. I truly feel for them (especially since we've been through just as much).

 

[Guynamednelson]

Just came back from the wake on the Geno threads. I truly feel for them (especially since we've been through just as much).

At least they had people outside the normal circle of Geno fans thinking they could get a chance.

 

[StrawHatX]

I've gotta say, I'm feeling pretty bummed about Geno's deconfirmation. No, it's not exactly surprising given Sephiroth's reveal. However, considering he's one of the pillars of the Smash speculation scene, seeing him only get his SSB4 Mii costume back with seemingly no changes and his iconic theme not included? Regardless of the justification, that stinks. If he couldn't get full playable, I think he at least deserved the "deluxe" treatment like Bomberman and Sans.

As for Isaac, I think his chances took a pretty big hit today. Issues with rights aside, Geno was in a pretty similar situation to Isaac, both being characters from relatively old Nintendo games that enjoy strong backing from the Smash community but not necessarily from the wider gaming audience. At this point I have to believe Isaac isn't getting in without Golden Sun HD being real, and as much as I want to believe it is, we're about to leave 2020 without a peep from Camelot about what it is they've been working on all this time. I just want to know what's going on one way or the other, so here's hoping we don't have to wait too much longer.

The only thing Isaac and Geno have in common are being long time popular fan requests. That’s pretty much the extent.

I know this sounds biased, but Isaac has always had a much better chance of being a playable character than Geno. Being a first party character will do that for you. I mean the guy was completely absent from Smash 4 and once they saw his popularity he comes back with an upgraded AT, a Mii Fighter costume, and the Golden Sun series in general got like 8 spirits.

Geno’s costume came back in Pass 2. Meaning it wasn’t even going to come back at all originally because they didn’t plan for a second pass, but because Pass 1 did so well they opted for it. Unless they were gonna throw it in with Terry or Byleth.

Isaac’s chances are exactly where they were before today. Hanging on by a thread. Any chance Geno had was killed today unfortunately for his fans.

 

[SPEN18]

Personally never thought Geno was all that likely, so not really surprised about his costume. I did think he had a chance at the deluxe costume, but in retrospect, what did they have to gain by upgrading the existing one?

Man, though, kinda disappointing that they repped a 3P franchise that already had a rep. Besides, I'd rather have 2 Fire Emblem 7 reps than 2 Final Fantasy 7 reps (and Roy only has a cameo in FE7 anyway, haha).

As someone who has primarily supported 1st party reps, I feel really out of touch with Nintendo's Smash roster selections and the mainstream fanbase atm. Like, Byleth was the most hype DLC reveal for me (though Banjo was good, too, and Min Min was okay even though I thought it should be Spring Man).

Not to be too much of a downer, though. I wasn't expecting a 2nd pass to begin with, and DLC characters are typically more $$-oriented anyway. And there's still some slots left to potentially get something good!

 

[N3ON]

It's wild to me how, despite all of us being joined together beneath the banner of Smash, how different fans of certain characters can be.

The raw, unbridled passion of Geno fans leaves me awestruck. I say this with all due respect and well-intentions. I wasn't around for when Isaac was revealed as an Assist, were things as crazy here as things are for Geno fans now? It's always been relatively chill among the Isaac fans in my experience.

Edit: I'm a little jealous if I'm being honest. I know they have historically had a bad reputation in the community, warranted or not, but I've always found myself drawn to honest passion. Such willingness to give oneself over to their feelings, desires, hopes, and faith.

I'd definitely end up a Sith lmao.

It still throws me when I hear people so new to the fanbase, but I guess it's just because I've so long just been "part of the crew, part of the ship" at this point that I'm growing barnacles. But yes, Isaac fans were quite passionate in the run up to the AT, very much so. We were the largest thread, and we were barely on the rails for much of the final days, in no small part due to the Grinch leak.

Isaac fans always fluctuate, showing up when it's thought his chance is coming. Then they sort of retreat to a simmer. But like the run-up to this game, the fanbase was also quite prominent during the ballot, when he typically ranked second in almost every major poll. Including the 40k votes megapoll.

It was only after the AT showed up that the Geno thread took off and surpassed this place, as we declined to the more passive state we've been in since.

It's not a particularly faithful picture of a fanbase after the character has already been deconfirmed. It's like how people now say the AT characters aren't that popular anyway. Well, yeah, they're all seen to be out of the running. When the cycle resets, and every character is seen to have a chance again, you'll witness fanbases more in their natural capacity. If you stick around that long, at least.

Can we also please discuss how Motoi Sakuraba came back to do the remix for the Main Theme of FF7?

Now when we get new remixes I just always anticipate I will see Motoi Sakuraba and Yoko Shimomura present, lol.

 

[NessAtc.]

Man, though, kinda disappointing that they repped a 3P franchise that already had a rep. Besides, I'd rather have 2 Fire Emblem 7 reps than 2 Final Fantasy 7 reps (and Roy only has a cameo in FE7 anyway, haha).

Careful buddy. This post right here is setting a flag.

 

[Pinguino21v]

In my opinion, Isaac’s chance rest solely on if that rumored Golden Sun game gets announced before Challenger Pack 10! I say that because I can’t honestly see Isaac being the potential “final” character reveal. Not saying it’s impossible, but if CP11 is the end...I think Smash goes out with a “bang” similar to Smash 4 ending with Bayonetta. So most likely third party for CP11.

Not in my point of view. My opinion is that we will get one more third party for the next slot (most likely a Capcom character) and two more Nintendo character for the two final slots, with one existing serie (Zelda, XC) and one AT upgrade (be it Isaac or Waluigi). And if I stick to my belief, the most likely is that the AT upgrade will happen at the end, because he won't bring a lot of new people to buy the pass, and because at the same time it can be see as the final clap for one long-supported character.

Isaac wouldn't be a "big shot" for the overall community, but he would still be seeing as a big surprise.

in retrospect, what did they have to gain by upgrading the existing one?

To please the fans. Geno's fans were most likely delusionnal on his chances to be a full fighter, but I was expecting they would make him a deluxe Mii.

 

[jweb23]

To please the fans. Geno's fans were most likely delusionnal on his chances to be a full fighter, but I was expecting they would make him a deluxe Mii.

I feel the word “delusional” is a bit harsh. People are just overly passionate about who they want in and that tends to create tunnel vision and a rose-colored glasses effect. I think they put WAY too much stock into Sakurai openly talking about Geno all those years ago. And the mii costume in Smash 4 bolstered their hopes.

Their tunnel vision made them forget these third parties are mostly using Smash as advertisements as Sakurai puts so much care into their characters. And unfortunately Geno doesn’t advertise anything for SquareEnix, but they have a plethora of characters who do: Sora, any main character from any Final Fantasy game, 2B and of course arguably the most iconic female video game character in Lara Croft. Geno just has too tough of a hill to climb to get in.

Still...I can’t help but feel bad for Geno’s fanbase though. All of us Isaac fans know exactly how disappointed they feel right now.

 

[TempestSurge]

At least they had people outside the normal circle of Geno fans thinking they could get a chance.

Yeah Isaac is such a dark horse. Having a conversation about Isaac in the general Smash community is even more of a headache than talking about Fire Emblem representation. There'ss so many misconceptions about his character and the series. You can go the entire speculation cycle and will never see Isaac on anyone's character roster predictions or any Smash speculation thumbnail let alone even showing up in the video at all. It probably doesn't help that while characters like Skull Kid, Waluigi, and Geno look unique right off the back. People who don't know Isaac google him and see the absolute horror, an anime looking guy with a sword. Thank goodness for Billybae10K bringing awareness and being the voice for Isaac during the speculation period!

 

[StrawHatX]

I feel the word “delusional” is a bit harsh. People are just overly passionate about who they want in and that tends to create tunnel vision and a rose-colored glasses effect. I think they put WAY too much stock into Sakurai openly talking about Geno all those years ago. And the mii costume in Smash 4 bolstered their hopes.

Their tunnel vision made them forget these third parties are mostly using Smash as advertisements as Sakurai puts so much care into their characters. And unfortunately Geno doesn’t advertise anything for SquareEnix, but they have a plethora of characters who do: Sora, any main character from any Final Fantasy game, 2B and of course arguably the most iconic female video game character in Lara Croft. Geno just has too tough of a hill to climb to get in.

Still...I can’t help but feel bad for Geno’s fanbase though. All of us Isaac fans know exactly how disappointed they feel right now.

Yeeeeaahhh.... I mean there are Geno fans wondering why Sakurai didn’t say anything about the Geno costume in the presentation. I mean, why would he....? It wasn’t a Deluxe costume. And that Fighter Pack was clearly FF based.

Not to mention there are some who are trying to convince themselves that Geno is still coming and that the costume is just Square trying to get extra cash by releasing a costume and a playable fighter later on down the pass. There is no way they would do that to fans and I don’t see any way Square gets ANOTHER rep in the same DLC pass especially when they got a rep last DLC as well.

It’s gotta be tough for them. We got the bandaid ripped off before the game launched and there have been some reasoning here and there that maybe Isaac could come later on down the line. Geno fans had to wait all this time and have their bandaid ripped off halfway through the second DLC.

 

[Billybae10K]

Yeah Isaac is such a dark horse. Having a conversation about Isaac in the general Smash community is even more of a headache than talking about Fire Emblem representation. There'ss so many misconceptions about his character and the series. You can go the entire speculation cycle and will never see Isaac on anyone's character roster predictions or any Smash speculation thumbnail let alone even showing up in the video at all. It probably doesn't help that while characters like Skull Kid, Waluigi, and Geno look unique right off the back. People who don't know Isaac google him and see the absolute horror, an anime looking guy with a sword. Thank goodness for Billybae10K bringing awareness and being the voice for Isaac during the speculation period!

If nobody else wanted to talk about Isaac during the Base Roster speculation period, I knew it was my job to do so. I just hope that, at the very least, my platform back then helped to bring more awareness to the character. The Golden Sun community has done a great job, moreso than before, staying relevant this time around, but in a way that doesn't feel overbearing. So props to everyone here.

I still don't know if we'll get Isaac - I'm very much going under the assumption of "Well, we know a new game is coming. Smash would be great, but we're still winning since the trademarks imply we're getting new Golden Sun content." So I feel like I can support Isaac, but not have to put so much of myself into it, which is certainly great for the good ol' mental health ^^

 

[SPEN18]

Careful buddy. This post right here is setting a flag.

Haha, just my opinion!

To please the fans.

Well, yeah, of course that.
I meant more that, from their perspective, the difference in representation between a regular mii and a deluxe mii wasn't that large and probably didn't warrant the resources. Basically, after having seen the mii costume come back, it made more sense to me in hindsight that it didn't get an upgrade (just from the point of view of my own speculation).
Not trying to dunk on Geno fans.

 

[SonicLink125]

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Imagine it being actual Isaac. One day...

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Sephiroth is Alex to me.


Personally, Sephiroth made my hope for Isaac even greater. Since Min Min, it shows that they are reconsidering new characters/ideas from the Base Game of Ultimate. Min Min Spirit to playable, added more Spirits that were missing, AT Bomberman to Mii Deluxe Bomberman, added FF Music to two already existing (ported) ones, reworked Cloud, Sephiroth’s Debris mechanic + Steve’s crafting related to Venus Psynergy, new Golden Sun HD game on the way, Motoi Sakuraba on board doing Smash music again in Fighter Pass 2, etc, etc. Isaac’s chances are looking pretty good right now!
Is Isaac a guarante? Sadly no and I don’t expect him either. However, do not count Isaac out of the running when there is A LOT going in his favor. Especially when adding Isaac to promote the new GS game would be a very, VERY smart move, business-wise, for Nintendo.

I do genuinely feel bad for Geno fans and I understand their pain. But the difference between Geno & Isaac is that Geno is between Square & Nintendo. Square probably don’t see Geno as someone to Rep their company or is worth it or won’t make the big bucks like Sephiroth would.
I personally think this was all on Square and the reason Geno didn’t at least get a Deluxe Mii is because Nintendo would have to pay more for it. So they just ported the Smash 4 one since they technically still have the rights to it meaning it wouldn’t be expensive. But that’s just my own speculation.
Isaac (and GS) is fully owned by Nintendo and they can easily add him if they wanted to without having to jump any hoops and spend tons of money. Plus, Nintendo was shocked with the backlash they got when Isaac was revealed as an AT. So, take that as you will.

We have reached a goal right now in base game with AT Isaac and more. We cannot go backwards from that. All that’s left to do is go forward. We have nothing to lose and everything to gain. If Isaac doesn’t get in in the end, that would be sad, but at least we fought instead of going into hiding. If he gets in, then our work wasn’t in vain. In the end, we will at least be rejoicing with a new GS game soon, Adepts! That is for sure!

 

[TempestSurge]

If nobody else wanted to talk about Isaac during the Base Roster speculation period, I knew it was my job to do so. I just hope that, at the very least, my platform back then helped to bring more awareness to the character. The Golden Sun community has done a great job, moreso than before, staying relevant this time around, but in a way that doesn't feel overbearing. So props to everyone here.

I still don't know if we'll get Isaac - I'm very much going under the assumption of "Well, we know a new game is coming. Smash would be great, but we're still winning since the trademarks imply we're getting new Golden Sun content." So I feel like I can support Isaac, but not have to put so much of myself into it, which is certainly great for the good ol' mental health ^^

I especially enjoy how much more reasonable the comment sections of your videos are. It's such a breath of fresh air not having to argue the same old same old dead series, bad sales, or obscure anime swordsman you get if you try to being up Isaac anywhere else.

I also like the point you brought up about mental health. I never really thought about it but I can say I definitely got way too invested in Isaac during base speculation to the point it did affect me in life. Going through a full day of work to come home and get caught up in Vergeben's leaks and the pessimism of Isaac's chances just made me feel stressed and terrible.

I'm thankful that we've managed to put our energy into Golden Sun as a whole after the assist trophy reveal vs sinking into more despair and disappearing and it seems like Golden Sun is on the horizon. So for now it's actually great to be able to sit back and enjoy these reveals without all the previous stress endured in the base Ultimate speculation period.

 

[FlawedAI]

The simple truth is that we're actually in a better place than we were in 2018. November of 2018 felt very do-or-die, like the fate of Golden Sun rested on Smash. Naturally, for those of us who wanted to see the series return, it was quite stressful and downright depressing when all hope felt lost. But now, thankfully, we know Golden Sun still lives, so Smash speculation has become far less stressful and even fun for me, after months of grueling and toxic speculation leading up to Ultimate's release.

Another way I tend to help myself not go crazy because of Smash is to simply limit myself to small circles of discussion. You'll never see me in any other SmashBoards thread, I only talk about it with close friends on Twitter, heck, I rarely talk all that much in the Isaac Discord server. It's never worth it for something that should be fun and lighthearted to become detrimental to you or your mental health. Remember to take care of yourself, because then you can be that much happier when we do see Golden Sun!

 

[LinkStrife]

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Imagine it being actual Isaac. One day...

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Sephiroth is Alex to me.


Personally, Sephiroth made my hope for Isaac even greater. Since Min Min, it shows that they are reconsidering new characters/ideas from the Base Game of Ultimate. Min Min Spirit to playable, added more Spirits that were missing, AT Bomberman to Mii Deluxe Bomberman, added FF Music to two already existing (ported) ones, reworked Cloud, Sephiroth’s Debris mechanic + Steve’s crafting related to Venus Psynergy, new Golden Sun HD game on the way, Motoi Sakuraba on board doing Smash music again in Fighter Pass 2, etc, etc. Isaac’s chances are looking pretty good right now!
Is Isaac a guarante? Sadly no and I don’t expect him either. However, do not count Isaac out of the running when there is A LOT going in his favor. Especially when adding Isaac to promote the new GS game would be a very, VERY smart move, business-wise, for Nintendo.

I do genuinely feel bad for Geno fans and I understand their pain. But the difference between Geno & Isaac is that Geno is between Square & Nintendo. Square probably don’t see Geno as someone to Rep their company or is worth it or won’t make the big bucks like Sephiroth would.
I personally think this was all on Square and the reason Geno didn’t at least get a Deluxe Mii is because Nintendo would have to pay more for it. So they just ported the Smash 4 one since they technically still have the rights to it meaning it wouldn’t be expensive. But that’s just my own speculation.
Isaac (and GS) is fully owned by Nintendo and they can easily add him if they wanted to without having to jump any hoops and spend tons of money. Plus, Nintendo was shocked with the backlash they got when Isaac was revealed as an AT. So, take that as you will.

We have reached a goal right now in base game with AT Isaac and more. We cannot go backwards from that. All that’s left to do is go forward. We have nothing to lose and everything to gain. If Isaac doesn’t get in in the end, that would be sad, but at least we fought instead of going into hiding. If he gets in, then our work wasn’t in vain. In the end, we will at least be rejoicing with a new GS game soon, Adepts! That is for sure!

Now I'm sad Sephiroth didn't have a skin with blue hair, that would be amazing...

 

[TempestSurge]

A bit of a change of topic but I've been bingeing videos from a YouTuber named The Completionist and I see that he has made a top 10 gameboy advance games list and Golden Sun made number 5. This video is pretty recent, made in July of this year and the video currently has 400k views. He even throws in a Smash mention and isn't deterred from Isaac being an assist so that was a pleasant surprise from the usual take. He also did a review of the game last year as well.

 

[SonicLink125]

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Nice reference to Super Mario RPG there.

Though, here’s something interesting. Geno was in a pic of the day before Isaac. Interesting...
This probably means absolutely nothing, but it’s something very interesting to think about. The fact that Sakurai started doing VG Anniversary Pics this year and completely skipped Golden Sun’s Anniversary (not one, but twice) while making multiple Anniversary posts in the same day if the games came out at the same time, it really makes you wonder and ask, why? Again, this probably means nothing at all, but it’s just weird that he wouldn’t even mention it.
......Unless Isaac is a character....? (Tin Foil Hat here)

 

[TempestSurge]

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Nice reference to Super Mario RPG there.

Though, here’s something interesting. Geno was in a pic of the day before Isaac. Interesting...
This probably means absolutely nothing, but it’s something very interesting to think about. The fact that Sakurai started doing VG Anniversary Pics this year and completely skipped Golden Sun’s Anniversary (not one, but twice) while making multiple Anniversary posts in the same day if the games came out at the same time, it really makes you wonder and ask, why? Again, this probably means nothing at all, but it’s just weird that he wouldn’t even mention it.
......Unless Isaac is a character....? (Tin Foil Hat here)

A part of me thinks it may be as simple as Sakurai not knowing about Golden Sun's anniversary lol. I think when Golden Sun comes back as an active series is when it'll get acknowledgment.

 

[NessAtc.]

worth noting that ARMS content wasn't in these pictures until Min Min's formal reveal, either.