Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[NonSpecificGuy]

Golden Sun needs to stand out somehow. Being a stunning recreation in 3D for a new generation will completely do that. I don’t really want a 2D Golden Sun Remake because if I wanted that I would just go play the originals but that’s just me.

Edit: I don’t think the gameplay needs to change but it can’t be a Retro-like RPG. It wouldn’t stand out on its own enough. Making it something like Nintendo’s take on Dragon Quest would be incredible.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

The Link's Awakening remake proved that Nintendo will happy remake a game 1:1 if it ain't broke.

Camelot and Grezzo are two different dev teams so who knows what approach Camelot would want to take with it

 

[pupNapoleon]

Dark Dawn Isaac is not an assist trophy, I'm dying on that hill and the only way I can be proven wrong is if an assist trophy ends up being a playable fighter. If I get proven wrong with any of the upcoming fighters revealed, Isaac chances of being a playable fighter increases. However, if I'm right then I'm right.

I'm just curious-

what are your thoughts on Chrom being in a final Smash and a victory pose for Robin, yet a complete character as well?
Is Tom Nook a possible character in your eyes?

To be honest, do we really want such a thing? I don't think a remake needs to abandon the 2D gameplay, nor add a hyper-detailed overworld. I'm very much expecting something graphically on par with the Mario Tennis Aces single player, which I firmly believe at this point was meant as a prototype/proof-of-concept for a Golden Sun HD. Maybe we move towards a more ambitious, Xenoblade-style world in future installments, but I think a successful reintroduction of the beloved original games needs to come first.

...What would a Mario Tennis single player have to do with a remake of the game? I'm a bit confused by your statement. If the games were remade, they wouldn't be using the ideas they came up with in Mario Tennis Aces- those are new ideas that aren't relevant to Golden Sun.

 

[NessAtc.]

I'm just curious-

what are your thoughts on Chrom being in a final Smash and a victory pose for Robin, yet a complete character as well?
Is Tom Nook a possible character in your eyes?

...What would a Mario Tennis single player have to do with a remake of the game? I'm a bit confused by your statement. If the games were remade, they wouldn't be using the ideas they came up with in Mario Tennis Aces- those are new ideas that aren't relevant to Golden Sun.

He means graphically, and I agree. Tennis Aces has extensive use of particle effects, as well as map design that is extremely atypical of your standard Mario Tennis game. Most of the tennis courts are emblematic of JRPG locales rather than just tennis courts or Mario themes, plus Golden Sun, on the GBA and DS both, had a LOT of particle effects used for the psynergy and the summons, so I can see how in this case the work put into Tennis Aces would be "a sum" that would go into Golden Sun.

 

[Starlight Liger]

I'm just curious-

what are your thoughts on Chrom being in a final Smash and a victory pose for Robin, yet a complete character as well?
Is Tom Nook a possible character in your eyes?

That's a completely valid point that I have no counterargument for.

 

[7NATOR]

I Missed the Argument, But I do have something to Add

I can actually see why Assists might have more stacked against them than other Characters, and it's because the Role they have in the game is More Major than most roles, as they are in Actual Gameplay Element and come with Full Models and such.

Not to say that's the reason a Character would not be picked, but I think If Nintendo and Sakurai feels that an AT role is enough for the Character, and enough to represent them, that could be a Problem for them being Playable. Like if it came down to narrowing down the Choices between 6 characters, and An AT character was paired against an Non-AT character, Because the Non-AT Character isn't represented in Gameplay unlike the AT character, that could be considered an advantage that character has

However with Dark Dawn Isaac and Regular Isaac, I can't really see this being the Case, Since it's the Same character. Dark Dawn Isaac having a different Design doesn't change the Fact that Isaac himself is already represented in the game already.

 

[pupNapoleon]

That's a completely valid point that I have no counterargument for.

I just want to say- your ability to outright say that on the internet makes you a hero. You didn't attempt to put words in my mouth, or distort or deflect the conversation. I appreciate you- you have web integrity.

 

[FlawedAI]

...What would a Mario Tennis single player have to do with a remake of the game? I'm a bit confused by your statement. If the games were remade, they wouldn't be using the ideas they came up with in Mario Tennis Aces- those are new ideas that aren't relevant to Golden Sun.

In addition to what NessAtc. said, the overworld map is very reminescent of Golden Sun, with a large map and chibi-size characters. I personally think a similar system could be used in Golden Sun with minimal tweaks, although I wouldn't quite say that it was developed specifically for Golden Sun.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Sometimes I wonder if I'm not a big fan of many other RPGs simply because I'm such a fan of Golden Sun, and it's difficult for me to not compare others to it. Especially then I was 10 (back in 01), I was pretty obsessed with the elements and how they could be balanced into magical systems- and GS did that so beautifully. It did so much well that I didn't much enjoy some of the classics, like Final Fantasy.

 

[extremeturkey]

Bomberman works as a deluxe mii costume because he has such a simple design that his assist trophy is already about as high-quality as it needed to be to work as a playable deluxe mii fighter

Isaac is a human character and if they ever decided to make a playable version of him, they would need to work a lot harder on his model than they did for his assist trophy model, which is not to the standard of a playable fighter. And at that point they would need to retcon his assist trophy model because it would be weird to have both models of the same person in the game when one is clearly better than the other

 

[pupNapoleon]

Bomberman works as a deluxe mii costume because he has such a simple design that his assist trophy is already about as high-quality as it needed to be to work as a playable deluxe mii fighter

Isaac is a human character and if they ever decided to make a playable version of him, they would need to work a lot harder on his model than they did for his assist trophy model, which is not to the standard of a playable fighter. And at that point they would need to retcon his assist trophy model because it would be weird to have both models of the same person in the game when one is clearly better than the other

Bomberman visually works, sure--- but it is pretty off putting to me that he cant actually.... use any bombs, at all.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

Bomberman works as a deluxe mii costume because he has such a simple design that his assist trophy is already about as high-quality as it needed to be to work as a playable deluxe mii fighter

Isaac is a human character and if they ever decided to make a playable version of him, they would need to work a lot harder on his model than they did for his assist trophy model, which is not to the standard of a playable fighter. And at that point they would need to retcon his assist trophy model because it would be weird to have both models of the same person in the game when one is clearly better than the other

On the other hand, however, having the two be visually distinct in such a way makes the 'confusion' some people claim is a nock against assist upgrades moot. Besides that, more work is required for a playable fighter over a Mii costume in general, so I don't think the extra work on the model specifically would be an issue.

 

[Starlight Liger]

I just want to say- your ability to outright say that on the internet makes you a hero. You didn't attempt to put words in my mouth, or distort or deflect the conversation. I appreciate you- you have web integrity.

Cheers, I appreciate that.

It'd be nice to see Golden Sun revived for Nintendo Switch even if it's just an upscaled port of the GBA titles.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

Camelot and Grezzo are two different dev teams so who knows what approach Camelot would want to take with it

It being 1:1 could've been a direct order from Nintendo.

Bomberman visually works, sure--- but it is pretty off putting to me that he cant actually.... use any bombs, at all.

If you squint your eyes, you can think that Shot Put is him throwing a bomb

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

They clearly want us to substitute the shotput for Bomberman's bombs

 

[pupNapoleon]

It being 1:1 could've been a direct order from Nintendo.

If you squint your eyes, you can think that Shot Put is him throwing a bomb

And 13 orders of fries, is that it here?

 

[MeatOfJustice]

And 13 orders of fries, is that it here?

No, they were 64.

Ｓｉｘｔｙ－Ｆｏｕｒ.

 

[NessAtc.]

Bomberman works as a deluxe mii costume because he has such a simple design that his assist trophy is already about as high-quality as it needed to be to work as a playable deluxe mii fighter

Isaac is a human character and if they ever decided to make a playable version of him, they would need to work a lot harder on his model than they did for his assist trophy model, which is not to the standard of a playable fighter. And at that point they would need to retcon his assist trophy model because it would be weird to have both models of the same person in the game when one is clearly better than the other

This is true...

If you honestly think they made two separate models for Isaac, one that was purposefully lower quality for the AT, and one that was higher quality for the mii costume.

They have the same texture mapping, which makes it a dead giveaway that they're based off the same model clearly. So the most likely outcome knowing this is that they made a standard quality model for Isaac, and then downscaled it to properly run ingame, with the mii costume using the standard model resized to fit a mii.

So, no, they don't need to work very hard at all. And there's really no reason to "retcon" either, since it's very evident they're not bothered

 

[pupNapoleon]

This is true...

If you honestly think they made two separate models for Isaac, one that was purposefully lower quality for the AT, and one that was higher quality for the mii costume.

They have the same texture mapping, which makes it a dead giveaway that they're based off the same model clearly. So the most likely outcome knowing this is that they made a standard quality model for Isaac, and then downscaled it to properly run ingame, with the mii costume using the standard model resized to fit a mii.

So, no, they don't need to work very hard at all. And there's really no reason to "retcon" either, since it's very evident they're not bothered

Your wording is a bit confusing.
First it's a postulation that they made two models for Isaac.
Then it's a fact.

...Did they or did they not make two models for Isaac?

 

[NessAtc.]

Your wording is a bit confusing.
First it's a postulation that they made two models for Isaac.
Then it's a fact.

...Did they or did they not make two models for Isaac?

They didn't make two models. They made one, down rez'd it for the AT, and also used it to make a mii costume set.

They didn't make two models for any characters that are assists and mii costumes. Spring Man, for example, also shares his textures between the two, with just some minor changes

 

[Guynamednelson]

Spring Man, for example, also shares his textures between the two, with just some minor changes

Actually, Spring Man's AT is an all new model while the Mii costume is recycled from ARMS.

 

[FlawedAI]

Actually, Spring Man's AT is an all new model while the Mii costume is recycled from ARMS.

I feel like that should be reversed.

 

[pupNapoleon]

I feel like that should be reversed.

Why? A Mii is just cosplay, which usually sucks and is arts and crafts.
A character in supposed to be the actual character making an appearance, and so, for realism, needs to look more so like a step away from playable.

 

[NessAtc.]

Actually, Spring Man's AT is an all new model while the Mii costume is recycled from ARMS.

I didn't say they shared a model, I just said they shared texture mapping. Aside from that, the AT model probably was actually built off of the original ARMS model to an extent.

 

[FlawedAI]

Why? A Mii is just cosplay, which usually sucks and is arts and crafts.
A character in supposed to be the actual character making an appearance, and so, for realism, needs to look more so like a step away from playable.

I mean it seems like the AT's model should be directly from ARMS while the Mii Costume's is based off that model. No sense in making a new model if you already have one, and given that they recycled Min Min's model from ARMS they probably did the same for Spring Man.

 

[isaac3000]

Still no news from Camelot huh? At this rate, the world is gonna end, and we will never find out what on Earth Camelot is working on!

 

[pupNapoleon]

Still no news from Camelot huh? At this rate, the world is gonna end, and we will never find out what on Earth Camelot is working on!

That's the secret- they arent working on anything on Earth. They are preparing a video game afterlife for 2021.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

Still no news from Camelot huh? At this rate, the world is gonna end, and we will never find out what on Earth Camelot is working on!

Them and the part of Retro that's not working on MP4.

 

[Starlight Liger]

Still no news from Camelot huh? At this rate, the world is gonna end, and we will never find out what on Earth Camelot is working on!

Don't set yourself up for disappointment, it's probably another Mario Sports game.

 

[Kalaam]

Don't be overly pessimistic, all signs and clues lead to it being Golden Sun. It's not as if it was baseless hope

 

[Nawgust]

Don't set yourself up for disappointment, it's probably another Mario Sports game.

The team split in late 2017 to move to another project that they have now been working on for 3 years. I can't imagine it was a sequel to Mario Tennis since Aces hadn't even released at that point. If it were golf, 3 years would be unorthodox since Camelot has historically reused resources between tennis and golf to expedite turnover, especially during the same console generation. This would have to be the most epic golf game ever, with Cyberpunk's "customize your junk" levels of attention to justify 3 years and counting in the oven.

Our own Billybo10k has an excellent analysis of why this is probably Golden Sun that you can watch here.

(Make sure you smash that "like" button and subscribe for more great content)

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Still no news from Camelot huh? At this rate, the world is gonna end, and we will never find out what on Earth Camelot is working on!

Our patience will be rewarded, just a little longer

 

[NessAtc.]

Don't set yourself up for disappointment, it's probably another Mario Sports game.

at this point the people setting themselves up for disappointment are the ones expecting another Mario Golf game, not the Golden Sun fans

I mean it's not like Nate and Sabi's former NoA source have both said that Mario Golf ain't happening, and there's no Mario Golf trademark, and World Tour sold like ass

 

[Guynamednelson]

at this point the people setting themselves up for disappointment are the ones expecting another Mario Golf game, not the Golden Sun fans

I mean it's not like Nate and Sabi's former NoA source have both said that Mario Golf ain't happening, and there's no Mario Golf trademark, and World Tour sold like ass

You could say "well they could do something that isn't golf or tennis!", but no. They won't. Their work on Mario Sports Superstars solely being the golf and tennis games cemented that that's all Camelot will do sports-wise.

 

[Nazyrus]

at this point the people setting themselves up for disappointment are the ones expecting another Mario Golf game, not the Golden Sun fans

I mean it's not like Nate and Sabi's former NoA source have both said that Mario Golf ain't happening, and there's no Mario Golf trademark, and World Tour sold like ass

And on top of that, the Mario direct already showed no sign of anything Mario sport type of game happening up until freaking spring of next year. Camelot has been working on a game since Aces was done, and with their mario assets already at hand, no mario sport game would take 2+ years to make, let alone be announced. It only takes a look at their release schedule of games to see what their pace is, covid or not. The math is pretty simple in the end here, as explained in detail way many times before.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Our friends at McLeodgaming launched the Kickstarter for their new indie crossover game "Fraymakers". They did care enough to add some Golden Sun content to SSF2 so they have my support

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[NessAtc.]

Our friends at McLeodgaming launched the Kickstarter for their new indie crossover game "Fraymakers". They did care enough to add some Golden Sun content to SSF2 so they have my support

There was a problem fetching the tweet

they should make Lea playable instead of just an assist

 

[ZelDan]

they should make Lea playable instead of just an assist

Hey someone else that played Crosscode.

Seeing her playable obviously would be cooler but honestly, just seeing Crosscode get any attention in a crossover of any kind is something I never really expected, so it's still pretty cool to see her there as an assist.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

At the very least the way assists works in this game looks much better than the way Smash Bros does it so they don't bother me nearly as much. Instead of being a 1/59 random drop it looks like you can assign them and have them support you when you build up the meter enough which is the best way to handle assist characters imo. I'd kill to have Fancy Pants as a playable character but I'm fine with this.

 

[NessAtc.]

Spoiler

If they add Saffron from One Step From Eden all is forgiven